Froslass - Ice Queen

[FlareBlitz]

Naru, Ambipom's Fake Out is 90 BP.

Anyway, I think the problem with determining Froslass' brokeness is this: there are a lot of shitty Froslass users, and so when people don't have problems with those unskilled users, they just think "ah this Pokemon must not be broken!".

I personally have experience with with skilled players using Froslass, such as Imperfectluck and Xia. Granted, they were using it in the context of a hail team (where it becomes indisputably broken, by the way) but the fact is, those players are able to get down three layers easily with Froslass, and block popular spinners due to the threat of Blizzard and ghost typing, while at the same time not leaving it in on shit like Sharpedo!

 

[Golden Sun]

Naru, Ambipom's Fake Out is 90 BP.

Anyway, I think the problem with determining Froslass' brokeness is this: there are a lot of shitty Froslass users, and so when people don't have problems with those unskilled users, they just think "ah this Pokemon must not be broken!".

I personally have experience with with skilled players using Froslass, such as Imperfectluck and Xia. Granted, they were using it in the context of a hail team (where it becomes indisputably broken, by the way) but the fact is, those players are able to get down three layers easily with Froslass, and block popular spinners due to the threat of Blizzard and ghost typing, while at the same time not leaving it in on shit like Sharpedo!

Froslass in the hands of a pro with hail out just isn't fair. I had rapid spin miss once -.-

 

[flashbolt]

I think Froslass should not be used as a lead; that totally gives the game away and, as has been said, anti leads are built to take out froslass.
One big strength of froslass at the moment is that alot of teams' only answer to froslass is their antilead. So i can target that lead and then let froslass loose. This is only making it easier for froslass.
I think players a wising up to this.

 

[capefeather]

Last test, I fooled around with a Froslass non-lead with Destiny Bond. No one ever saw it coming. It was also epic at setting up multiple Spikes. Froslass is also very, very insane under hail.

 

[GMLW]

Speaking of anti-leads, if multi-hit moves killed through Focus Sash, Skill Link Cloyster with Rock Blast would be the ultimate anti-lead, barring a Rock Blast miss of course. Although, even if it misses, Cloyster could just spin away the extra Spikes that Froslass lays. But sadly, Rock Blast does not kill through Focus Sash.

 

[Bluewind]

Speaking of anti-leads, if multi-hit moves killed through Focus Sash, Skill Link Cloyster with Rock Blast would be the ultimate anti-lead, barring a Rock Blast miss of course. Although, even if it misses, Cloyster could just spin away the extra Spikes that Froslass lays. But sadly, Rock Blast does not kill through Focus Sash.

It does (or at least last time I checked it did), due to a glitch on Shoddy; and has already been used by some players. IIRC Heysup posted an RMT with a Cloyster lead.

 

[jamashawalker]

So many ppl are posting about frosslass being able to set up only 1 pair of spikes on it and saying that they took it out easily with an anti-lead...As negative as this sounds, you were not playing an experienced opponent..
If I see sharpedo vs frosslass, I am not going to keep my frosslass in, I am trading out and looking for a more opportune time to set up spikes. Obviously I am going to lose 1 on 1 against sharpedo. Against Aimbipom, of course i'm not going to leave frosslass in. If it has pursuit, then hey good job on my opponents part, but the risk of leaving her in is higher than the risk of trading out...there is no good in leaving frosslass in against aimbipom, when it will just taunt me and go to a different counter...against spiritomb requires GREAT prediction from the frosslass user, so that is debatable no matter how much skill you have with frosslass...

Overall point is that it is irritating when ppl talk about anti-leads for frosslass when it is just as easy to switch her out then keep her in.

 

[d2m]

Responding to d2m's post from the superthread:



Sorry but the reason Froslass is so good is because you can't just "counter it". You are still going to give it a chance to set up Spikes. Then something like Raikou or Swellow comes in on Missy and easily breaks through your team with the stacked entry hazards.

Yes, you can. If you don't have something that can take it out you have something that can taunt it on your team. If you don't you have an ill prepared team because you didn't plan for one of the threats of the meta and got killed by it.

I've found Froslass very easy to control with a hyper offense team that utilizes multiple taunters. Zam lead stops spikes early, Missy stops spikes later, Toxicroak stops spikes if it tries to set up on him (subpunch). Either way, 1 set tops and I get a sweeper ready for free, it's always a better trade for me.

You have to play like that, say "OK, she's gonna get a set here, but I know she's defensive, thus has piss weak offenses and allows me to set up."

Anything, I mean ANYTHING with Spikes is going to be able to set up one layer at some point in the game unless you're a moron. Come in on something that you can wall/force out and set up 1 layer. Cloyster can do it, Omastar can do it, Quilfish can do it. The thing that makes Froslass better is its high speed, when you sacrifice that for physical bulk, you beat 2 of the common Anti-leads, but sacrifice your one huge advantage and hamstring your already mediocre offensive abilities, thus making her complete setup fodder for anything over base 90, which includes very potent threats.

5-6 games I played, I came in on a bulky Froslass with Mismagius mid-late game, Taunted while she taunted/spikes, then NP either on the switch or the weak Ice Beam (get a 2nd if she ice beams) then sweep the rest of the team with a +2 Missy.

 

[Banedon]

So many ppl are posting about frosslass being able to set up only 1 pair of spikes on it and saying that they took it out easily with an anti-lead...As negative as this sounds, you were not playing an experienced opponent..
If I see sharpedo vs frosslass, I am not going to keep my frosslass in, I am trading out and looking for a more opportune time to set up spikes. Obviously I am going to lose 1 on 1 against sharpedo. Against Aimbipom, of course i'm not going to leave frosslass in. If it has pursuit, then hey good job on my opponents part, but the risk of leaving her in is higher than the risk of trading out...there is no good in leaving frosslass in against aimbipom, when it will just taunt me and go to a different counter...against spiritomb requires GREAT prediction from the frosslass user, so that is debatable no matter how much skill you have with frosslass...

Overall point is that it is irritating when ppl talk about anti-leads for frosslass when it is just as easy to switch her out then keep her in.

Perhaps I just haven't been playing against good opponents, but then ... how do you intend to lay spikes / keep Froslass alive / spin block if your opponent has even a single Pokemon with Pursuit? Regardless of who you come in on, your opponent can switch to the Pursuit-using Pokemon and kill Froslass.

Some responses to heysup's post #1061 in the other thread:

Excellent, so a Rapid Spinner will be pushed to about 40% before being able to Rapid Spin due to Pain Split. That's when I send my Moltres / Raikou / Swellow / etc in and threaten to OHKO your Blastoise. What's even better is that Blastoise is now switching in with 15%. Good luck.

If Blastoise gets his Rapid Spin off why is the Blastoise-user complaining? He would have spent one turn (or two, if he used Foresight) to spin away what took three turns (or more, if Froslass also used Taunt) to set up. Furthermore, there's nothing forcing Blastoise to stay in and Surf. He can switch out to someone who's at relatively low health or who has a Substitute or who resists Ice Beam and can set up on Froslass or who has Recover / Roost / Rest or who has Pursuit, or ... there aren't a lack of options.

Taunt. Stone Edge is a viable option but it doesn't even OHKO Froslass.

If you Taunt a Hitmontop switching into Froslass, you may die (Stone Edge + Bullet Punch, or just two Stone Edges). If you switch Froslass into Hitmontop then you risk switching into Foresight, or Stone Edge.

And a similar thing applies to ...

Right. And Raikou shouldn't use Thunderbolt, Salamence shouldn't use Draco Meteor, Swellow shouldn't use Facade, and Honchkrow shouldn't use Brave Bird.

It's Donphan's most powerful attack. If Donphan was not using Earthquake it wouldn't be so hard to switch into.

You arent forced to use Earthquake. Sure EQ is Donphan's strongest weapon, but if all you do is EQ and EQ and EQ and hope things die then Moltres gets a free switch in to threaten with HP Grass. What gives? If your opponent has spent many turns setting up entry hazards and you know he has a Froslass, you ought to at least consider the possibility of him spin blocking right?

 

[jamashawalker]

Perhaps I just haven't been playing against good opponents, but then ... how do you intend to lay spikes / keep Froslass alive / spin block if your opponent has even a single Pokemon with Pursuit? Regardless of who you come in on, your opponent can switch to the Pursuit-using Pokemon and kill Froslass.

lol True, but I am talking about leads. And exactly how many pursuit leads do you see not named aimbipom/spiritomb...and even if you had a pursuiter that was switching in on frosslass, frosslass still sets up at least 3 layers of spikes on you...

1. for the switch out to the pursuiter
2. for the pursuit(depending on the situation whether frosslass comes in at full health with sash, or is pro-lass)
3. for the death(unless you run a choice scarf pursuiter or aimbipom)

so frosslass did it's job very well in that scenario with pursuit

 

[Heysup]

Yes, you can. If you don't have something that can take it out you have something that can taunt it on your team. If you don't you have an ill prepared team because you didn't plan for one of the threats of the meta and got killed by it.

So by means of magic you can switch into Froslass without letting it set up Spikes. Cool story bro.

If Blastoise gets his Rapid Spin off why is the Blastoise-user complaining? He would have spent one turn (or two, if he used Foresight) to spin away what took three turns (or more, if Froslass also used Taunt) to set up. Furthermore, there's nothing forcing Blastoise to stay in and Surf. He can switch out to someone who's at relatively low health or who has a Substitute or who resists Ice Beam and can set up on Froslass or who has Recover / Roost / Rest or who has Pursuit, or ... there aren't a lack of options.

It doesn't Rapid Spin. He is only "able" to Rapid Spin when Froslass faints and Blastoise is at ~40%. This is when the "good Froslass user" will send out something like Moltres or Swellow.

If Blastoise switches out, then Froslass has already done its job.

If you Taunt a Hitmontop switching into Froslass, you may die (Stone Edge + Bullet Punch, or just two Stone Edges). If you switch Froslass into Hitmontop then you risk switching into Foresight, or Stone Edge.

Well let's start by saying that Stone Edge is quite rare on Hitmontop (~15% iirc) and that it is practically never used with Bullet Punch. Are you suggesting that Hitmontop runs a set of Stone Edge / Bullet Punch / Foresight / Rapid Spin. If so then that proves my point further that you need to cripple your team in order to "deal" with Froslass.

Additionally, there are always risks to switching into Foresight. The thing is that if Hitmontop manages to Spin away your Spikes, you can just send Froslass right back in to set them up on a helpless Hitmontop.

And a similar thing applies to ...

You arent forced to use Earthquake. Sure EQ is Donphan's strongest weapon, but if all you do is EQ and EQ and EQ and hope things die then Moltres gets a free switch in to threaten with HP Grass. What gives? If your opponent has spent many turns setting up entry hazards and you know he has a Froslass, you ought to at least consider the possibility of him spin blocking right?

I know, and actually agree. However I was responding to someone making it out to seem that you should "not use Earthquake" in the match with Froslass....when clearly you will be using it and thus giving Froslass a chance to switch in.

 

[Banedon]

@jamashawalker - well not necessarily 3 layers since the first move you might waste doing a Taunt (e.g. you face an Uxie lead, and Taunt as he U-turns to Absol). Also with Froslass down you are 5v6 with the spin blocker dead, so Rapid Spin is a lot easier to pull off. Moltres / Swellow and co get a free switch in that may net them a kill, which puts things back at 5v5. Then the defender sends out a counter, forces Moltres / Swellow out and Rapid Spins ...

Of course that's all theory. It may not happen in practice. In practice I find I haven't had much problem with Froslass this round (well, Taunt stopping my Stealth Rock, but that's about it). It could be because I've largely run dual screens though.

It doesn't Rapid Spin. He is only "able" to Rapid Spin when Froslass faints and Blastoise is at ~40%. This is when the "good Froslass user" will send out something like Moltres or Swellow.

If Blastoise switches out, then Froslass has already done its job.

Or if he uses Foresight first (like ToF did against xianglongfa). If Blastoise didn't use Froslass first but did predict Froslass coming in, Froslass would have taken big damage in return and can't come in to stop another Rapid Spin.

Well let's start by saying that Stone Edge is quite rare on Hitmontop (~15% iirc) and that it is practically never used with Bullet Punch. Are you suggesting that Hitmontop runs a set of Stone Edge / Bullet Punch / Foresight / Rapid Spin. If so then that proves my point further that you need to cripple your team in order to "deal" with Froslass.

Additionally, there are always risks to switching into Foresight. The thing is that if Hitmontop manages to Spin away your Spikes, you can just send Froslass right back in to set them up on a helpless Hitmontop.

I remember you made a post about how Cresselia can't set up on Alakazam because all Alakazam has to do is use Encore + Taunt. But Alakazam doesn't often run Encore + Taunt. I think I've only seen Taunt on lead Alakzams (which aren't very common to begin with), while never seeing Encore. Does this prove that you have to cripple Alakazam in order to "deal" with Cresselia?

If Hitmontop spins away Spikes he's done his job. If he has Stone Edge, good for him he can use it on Froslass and switch out on the Pain Split. If he doesn't, he can still switch out. d2m's point with Mismagius is that Mismagius easily sets up on Froslass, which is certainly valid. In fact there are lots of dangerous Pokemon who can set up on Froslass, viz. Raikou.

PS: If I switch Mismagius into Froslass my first move will probably be to Sub - and on seeing you switch to Swellow, I'd HP Fighting and then switch out to some steel type.
PPS: If Hitmontop has used Foresight he can hit Froslass with Close Combat.
PPPS: If Uxie sets up screens, Memento's and lets Linoone pull off a Belly Drum, heavy offense would be in some pretty hot soup. This mirrors the Swellow + Froslass strategy you mentioned. Does that make Linoone (or Uxie) overpowered?

I know, and actually agree. However I was responding to someone making it out to seem that you should "not use Earthquake" in the match with Froslass....when clearly you will be using it and thus giving Froslass a chance to switch in.

Well it clearly depends on the stage of the match right? If it's early in the game and Froslass has set up 2-3 layers of spikes, and if my opponent has shown himself to be fairly competent, I'd predict he will try to spin block. Remember, if you do switch Froslass in to spin block and instead switch into SR + Assurance there's a good chance you lose Froslass.

 

[Erazor]

There's a difference between Encore + Taunt Alakazam and Bullet Punch + Stone Edge Hitmontop. Hitmontop ONLY carries Bullet Punch if its Technitop. If it's Technitop, it's not spinning. So sorry, no Stone Edge + BP unless you're a jackass.

The thing with Froslass... you really have to address why it is better than all the other spikers. Unfortunately, you can't spin on it unless you're Hitmontop or Blastoise. And of course, there's pain splitting, killing etc. which ends in 3 layers of spikes and a disabled spinner. Not nice.

 

[jamashawalker]

@jamashawalker - well not necessarily 3 layers since the first move you might waste doing a Taunt (e.g. you face an Uxie lead, and Taunt as he U-turns to Absol). Also with Froslass down you are 5v6 with the spin blocker dead, so Rapid Spin is a lot easier to pull off. Moltres / Swellow and co get a free switch in that may net them a kill, which puts things back at 5v5. Then the defender sends out a counter, forces Moltres / Swellow out and Rapid Spins ...

lol actually after playing with frosslass and playing against Uxie leads I have NEVER taunted on the first turn and when i use my Uxie lead many oppenents never taunt on the first turn they immediately set up spikes. And this already tells me whether the opponent is an experienced player with frosslass or if they are just adding a frosslass on a random team. For what reason, Trick Uxie. And many ppl trick on the first turn with Uxie(in my opinion is a bad idea, but let them do them) If i get tricked on taunt, then i'm really screwed over big time which gives my opponent the early lead on me...and whoever said double ghosting isn't an option for spin blocking...Most teams I have seen run frosslass+spiritomb combo..which has been working out really well for them as getting rid of spikes seemed like a huge hassel for them, but this is where hyper-offense teams really shine though by just hard pounding

EDIT: O and if your not careful with your pursuiter you can be Destiny Bonded leaving you 5 vs 5 at the start of the match and you with at least 2 layers of spikes on your side of the field

 

[capefeather]

If Uxie sets up screens, Memento's and lets Linoone pull off a Belly Drum, heavy offense would be in some pretty hot soup. This mirrors the Swellow + Froslass strategy you mentioned. Does that make Linoone (or Uxie) overpowered?

Linoone is a one-shot deal, though, while Swellow, Moltres, etc. can potentially switch in and out over and over again (at least twice, anyways), weakening their counters so easily due to the Spikes. Spikes are just so effective in this metagame, and the ability to block your own Spikes is pretty big IMO.

 

[SJCrew]

I don't even bother using Taunt on Lass, it's really just a big waste of time since your opponent most often attacks right away and I could use that valuable time stacking Spikes. Plus, wielding both Ice Beam and Shadow Ball makes her a lot more dangerous, as it enables you to start pummeling at Uxie right away, and gives you attacking options against Venusuar, Mismagius, Rotom, Slowbro, and plenty of others.

Taunt just makes her a huge target and wastes her sash for something that only disallows your opponent from setting up SR temporarily when they could easily just come back and do it later. It could probably be justified with the use of Moltres, but otherwise, I wouldn't advise it.

 

[HATrick]

I recently tried Froslass in UU, and man was it easy to set up spikes. After setting up, all I had to do was Destiny Bond. Only a few anti-leads could stop her from doing her job *cough*Sneasel*cough*. IMO, its not broken, but I have yet to meet one that abuses hail.

 

[Ekanselttar]

I think the question of whether or not Froslass belongs in BL boils down to her usage in off-lead slots. Not only does she have a better chance of using her not-horrible attacking stats and good offensive typing, but you can pretty much guarantee two layers (or even three) of spikes by switching into the correct pokémon. The question should be, does this specific use qualify it as uber?

In my opinion, no. Froslass is still very fragile and will almost certainly be 2HKO'd. Spikes are very nice, but their effectiveness is somewhat diminished by coming in mid-battle. It's true that you can put her in pretty quickly, but to do her job properly, it has to be on a predicted switch or after one of your own pokes faints, and the opponent antilead (if it has a fast Taunt, which it should) is dead. This has a pretty good chance of happening against a sweeper if you do it ASAP, as most players will immediately try to set up on a weakened anti-antilead or whatever. This means you get a couple layers max, and do no damage, and cannot spinblock. It's only really in midgame where you can pull her out and throw down two or three layers and maybe spinblock. At this stage, the opponent is probably at least a couple pokes down, and there's a chance that SR will be up, breaking her sash.

I believe that as a suicide lead, Froslass has lost its effectiveness due to the plethora of antileads out there. Most, if properly used, can kill Froslass after a single layer of spikes or taunt her out of all of them. Of course, taunt leads don't normally have pursuit (actually, do any?), so Froslass makes it to...

Midbattle usage is more effective, perhaps, than lead usage. You can probably lay down a couple layers of spikes OR do a bit of damage OR put down a layer and spinblock. Keeping her for any one of the three jobs will probably preclude her from performing her other possible roles.

As a lead, Froslass is too easily countered, and boasts mediocre performance against the Big Three of Uxie, Froslass, and Ambipom, and loses against antileads and some other strategies. In the middle of the battle, she can perform a few roles pretty well, but is too frail to do anything in more than one area. Simply put, Froslass is a good pokémon, but its effectiveness is limited enough not to meet the support criteria.

 

[PK Gaming]

Agreed with nearly all points made by Heysup.

Erazor, I use Technitop with BP+SE.

:P

 

[Golden Sun]

I just vs'd a mudslap lass in hail. really not fair.

 

[d2m]

I just vs'd a mudslap lass in hail. really not fair.

Now that's just goddamn mean.

 

[Vrolok]

Of course, taunt leads don't normally have pursuit (actually, do any?)

You're forgetting the 2nd most common lead, Ambi.

 

[Banedon]

lol actually after playing with frosslass and playing against Uxie leads I have NEVER taunted on the first turn and when i use my Uxie lead many oppenents never taunt on the first turn they immediately set up spikes. And this already tells me whether the opponent is an experienced player with frosslass or if they are just adding a frosslass on a random team. For what reason, Trick Uxie. And many ppl trick on the first turn with Uxie(in my opinion is a bad idea, but let them do them) If i get tricked on taunt, then i'm really screwed over big time which gives my opponent the early lead on me...and whoever said double ghosting isn't an option for spin blocking...Most teams I have seen run frosslass+spiritomb combo..which has been working out really well for them as getting rid of spikes seemed like a huge hassel for them, but this is where hyper-offense teams really shine though by just hard pounding

EDIT: O and if your not careful with your pursuiter you can be Destiny Bonded leaving you 5 vs 5 at the start of the match and you with at least 2 layers of spikes on your side of the field

Well Froslass can't have Taunt, Destiny Bond, Pain Split, Spikes and Ice Beam at the same time. Also I think this deserves mention: Uxie and Ambipom are, together with Froslass, some of the most common leads in UU. If Froslass has to switch out of both Uxie and Ambipom that's hardly an argument for Froslass being BL.

Running two Ghosts is good for spin blocking of course but then you'd be changing your team quite a bit to achieve that spin blocking. It's like running two Dual Screeners. If you have two Dual Screeners then it's only fair you get screens up much more reliably right? If someone is so intent on keeping spikes / SR on the field and runs two ghosts to do it, he should be able to achieve his aim more reliably. Although of course Pursuit can still eliminate the ghosts ...

Finally I think it's only fair to say that Absol vs. Froslass is very uncomfortable for the Froslass user. Froslass can switch out, Taunt, Spikes or Ice Beam; against that Absol can Pursuit, Night Slash, Swords Dance or even Sucker Punch. In any case Absol wins and Froslass loses, and Absol will have chances to switch in (since Froslass is laying spikes), so yeah.

******

Consider the following cases:

Case A: Froslass is in and laying spikes, other team switches in Hitmontop. Froslass can Taunt or switch out or even lay more spikes, although it's risky. Hitmontop can Stone Edge, Foresight, Rapid Spin, even Pursuit (although it's unconventional).

Froslass uses Taunt + Hitmontop uses Stone Edge -> too bad for Froslass.
Froslass uses Taunt + Hitmontop uses Foresight -> great for Froslass.
Froslass uses Taunt + Hitmontop uses Rapid Spin -> great for Froslass.
Froslass switches out + Hitmontop uses Stone Edge -> Hitmontop gets free hit.
Froslass switches out + Hitmontop uses Foresight -> Froslass escapes unscathed.
Froslass switches out + Hitmontop uses Rapid Spin -> too bad for Froslass.

Just counting the possible cases it's about 50/50 here.

Case B: Hitmontop is in and threatening to Rapid Spin. Froslass can switch in or stay out.

Froslass switches in + Hitmontop uses Rapid Spin -> good for Froslass.
Froslass switches in + Hitmontop uses Foresight -> too bad for Froslass.
Froslass switches in + Hitmontop uses Stone Edge -> too bad for Froslass.
Froslass stays out + Hitmontop uses Rapid Spin -> too bad for Froslass.
Froslass stays out + Hitmontop uses Foresight -> great for Froslass.
Froslass stays out + Hitmontop uses Stone Edge -> good for Hitmontop.

Hitmontop clearly has the advantage in this case (if Froslass switches into SR then it takes damage regardless of what Hitmontop does).

There's nothing really that unique about Hitmontop; Blastoise can do the same if we substitute Surf for Stone Edge. Donphan can't use Foresight, but Assurance hits Froslass for SE damage. Other spinners: Kabutops will thump Froslass with Stone Edge + Aqua Jet; Claydol has Shadow Claw.

So what is so BL-esque about Froslass? You can spin against her, or at least inflict major damage on her if she stays in to spin block. If you don't carry Rapid Spin then there's nothing special about Froslass - there are other Pokemon that can lay Spikes, and they will get chances to do so. Arguing that Froslass "centralizes the metagame around having Rapid Spin" is just unreasonable. It's not Froslass's fault that entry hazards are so effective and that there are so few Rapid Spinners around. If this is really problematic then someone should propose banning Stealth Rock / Spikes under the Support Clause.

Frankly all the arguments that Froslass is broken seem based on the other team having no counters to Froslass.

Some other arguments for Froslass being UU:

1. Froslass does not have reliable recovery (Pain Split isn't reliable), so her switch ins are liminted - especially if SR is on the field.
2. There are plenty of dangerous Pokemon that can set up on Froslass. Mismagius, Raikou and Alakazam, to name a few.
3. Froslass can be eliminated by Pursuit since she's weak to it and can't threaten most Pursuit users.
4. Froslass takes time to put up Spikes. This allows the other team to do some nasty things of their own, e.g. get Raikou behind a Sub, put up screens, put up SR. Two of the most common Pokemon cited as being overpowered with Spikes support, namely Swellow and Moltres, are both weak to SR (not to mention Froslass herself).
5. Destiny Bond is beaten by a priority move, and if Froslass switches out, by having entry hazards.

I think Rain is a lot (as in a lot) more threatening than Froslass.

 

[capefeather]

Donphan has Odor Sleuth, which is equivalent to Foresight.

 

[Heysup]

Firstly, Froslass beats Ambipom if it's bulky, and Froslass always beats Uxie. Next.

Arguments that resemble this below do not hold much ground:

"Pokemon X is not broken because Pokemon Y can possibly run this never used / terrible set of A or B and Pokemon Z can also run this bad set C and if M, N, and L happen before Pokemon X switches in it can lose"

This also applies to Pokemon you would not even dream of unbanning in Ubers, such as Kyogre.

"Kyogre is not broken because you can run Parasect in Ubers and if you don't switch into entry hazards and Kyogre doesn't have Ice Beam Parasect can win."

Your examples with Donphan and Claydol are horribly false as well. Claydol's Shadow Ball doesn't 2HKO, it barely 3HKOes iirc while Froslass can just sit there Spiking and Pain Splitting then KOing with Ice Beam. Donphan is OHKOed by Ice Beam as well.

Blastoise can 3HKO Froslass, but when the only common spinner that can be Froslass is left with 40% after KOing Froslass (Pain Split), you know you have a problem. After this Froslass can simply send in Moltres or Swellow to threaten or KO Blastoise. Once it switches in again it will have 15%. Good Luck.

Additionally, you are saying things like "Froslass takes time to set up Spikes" as an argument which I cannot comprehend. Froslass being able to take time to set up Spikes is absolutely not an argument against Froslass being BL.

Moltres and Swellow are weak to Stealth Rock, yes, but why can't you run it with your so-called awesome Rapid Spinners? I mean, if the opponent isn't using Froslass Rapid Spinning will usually not be a problem for Pokemon such as Donphan. Also, "weak to SR" is not a valid argument against something being broken (see Yanmega and Honchkrow).