Team Building For OU

[yee]

I'm sorry to remove a guy that's already there, but I think Specs Latios needs to be removed from the wallbreaker section. If the actual goal is wallbreaking, you use Hydreigon in that spot, and if that opens up a weakness in your team you're not getting to wallbreak. Latios just doesn't break SpD Rachi / TTar / Ferro in rain, and it loves getting trapped. Latios is good, but it's a loosely defined role it plays and wallbreaking is so-so. For wallbreaking you want something that you can reliably pivot into and count on a kill from, like Hydreigon:

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Mild / Rash Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Superpower
- Roost

Despite defensive abilities of OU pokemon rising, there's still nothing that can switch into this set reliably in standard battle conditions. With a SpA boosting nature you get even more power out of Draco Meteor, and the classic Dragon / Fire combo with the Fighting coverage on top not only gives you full coverage, but sufficient base power which is absolutely necessary to get anywhere against walls like Jirachi and Chansey.

Good Teammates: Hydreigon's downsides are its speed and getting in, to help it get in bulky pokemon with U-Turn or Volt Switch like Scizor or Forretress are useful. The other big problem it has is what to do after it gets its kill and there's a faster pokemon with a free turn against you. A Regenerator pokemon like Slowbro covers physical threats and can switch into threats more than once, other general good walls like Skarmory and Jellicent are useful for providing resists against faster Dragons and Keldeo's STABs. Don't be afraid to use a sitting duck like Porygon2 because Hydreigon removes excessive troubles against getting stalled.

What Counters It: Nothing can switch in if you guess their move right, and even if you don't the worst thing that can happen is a Chansey getting a chance to stall Superpower if it doesn't eat two or a Steel like Bronzong in rain absorbing a Draco to force you out. Careful Hippowdon has a chance one on one, so the pattern to live by is getting Hydreigon away from situations where it isn't forcing something out, and when it can't having something to do against those tanky pokemon, like setting up another sweeper. The other thing that will sap leverage from your team against Hydreigon is again faster revenge killers, which comes down to minimizing the damage they do after you get your kill.

Edit- Feedback on Rak: solid overall but I'd mention Adamant. Call me old fashioned but I like to use a sledgehammer for this job, the extra 10% makes it easier to 2HKO Slowbro with SE after rocks and things like Hippowdon / Tangrowth can actually tank CC without SR up. It forces that Lando-T to run more defense EVs to survive after SR. The speed is obviously full of very important missed benchmarks, but it's less of a wallbreaker without the power.

Double Edit- I'd actually not mind if Latios stays where it is. I think it's mostly a special sweeper but I think it's open for debate whether it's that / wallbreaker or even part revenge killer because of the way I think everyone likes to check stuff using its base speed. I would probably put it under special sweeper but if I'm debating with myself I'm probably making a nitpicky change.

Also I'd say that CB Tar should definitely be under Support. It's a bit of a wallbreaker and it is a nice tank, but I can't remember the last time I used it and the deal breaker was me wanting to use a "weatherless" team. I can call it a false weatherless team because TTar is a real pokemon and does real stuff for the categories but in this meta I wanted to run a balanced / defensive team without the bread and butter rain / sun things tacked on.

 

[Subject 18]

I've slacked a little bit lately keeping this thread active. Sorry about that.

@scotti The set looks great as it is now but I agree with yee that Adamant should be mentioned. If you can make that quick change the set will be added.

@yee Where would Latios be better placed then. A special sweeper?
Edit: and dont feel like its a problem to suggest a pokemon to be moved from one role to another or even removed. Its not an issue. The thread is meant for newer users be able see what works well with what, and what role each pokemon is able to accomplish.

@MCBarrett In the future could you make the set more in the importable format. Makes is easier on me to just copy and paste it. Otherwise I don't see anything wrong with it and I'll add it to the OP.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Role: Tank (I think)

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

What it does: Tyranitar is an absolute monster with a Choice Band, potentially 2HKOing even premier walls like Skarmory with Stone Edge. With the right play, Choice Band Tyranitar can potentially take out a Pokemon every time it comes in. This Tyranitar isn't limited to purely attacking, it has access to the strongest Pursuit in the game, trapping the likes of Latios, Latias, and Celebi, even Jellicent isn't safe from this Tyrantar. Tie all of this together with solid bulk, especially on the special side thanks to Sand Stream, and Choice Band Tyranitar is a terrifying bulky attacker + trapping Pokemon.

Good teammates: Offensively, Tyranitar's best partners are Pokemon which enjoy its ability to trap and kill a variety of Psychic and Ghost-types. Keldeo is one of these Pokemon, enjoying Celebi, Latias, and even Jellicent out of the picture. Other Pokemon like Breloom appreciate pursuit support to get rid of Celebi and friends. Thanks to its raw power, Tyranitar can dismantle some defensive cores, so powerful offensive sweepers such as Garchomp and Terrakion can take advantage of the holes it opens. Defensively, Tyranitar wants Pokemon which can deal with its quadrupedal Fighting-type weakness, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and Gliscor are solid defensive teammates. Celebi, Roserade, and Amoonguss can deal with offensive Water-types like Keldeo and Politoed for Tyranitar. Latios, Latias, and Starmie make decent offensive checks to a variety of Fighting and Water types. Blissey, despite sharing a Fighting weakness, appreciates Tyranitar's ability to get rid of bothersome Pokemon like Jellicent and Latios, while supporting Tyranitar and taking Water-type attacks for it. Finally, Tyranitar of course sets up sand, so keep sand abusers like Stoutland and Sandlash in mind.

Additional information: Crunch is a mandatory STAB move, with also allows Tyranitar to KO the likes of Celebi and Jellicent if they don't switch. Superpower is a general coverage move, which in particular allows Tyranitar to hit Ferrothorn and Terrakion, also its great because of its shear power. Tyranitar can use other moves like Aqua Tail, Fire Punch, and Earthquake, but they are generally inferior to the listed options, only hitting very specific things harder. The listed EVs outspeed uninvested base 70 speed Pokemon like Skarmory and Politoed, as well as Jellicent and Scizor.

How to deal with it: Hippowdon is the most reliable counter, taking all moves relatively easily outside of the rare Aqua Tail. Gliscor, Skarmory, and Forretress take everything but Stone Edge, forcing Tyranitar to connect them to potential 2HKO. Landorus-T can take a Stone Edge thanks to Intimidate, and retaliate with Earthquake. Tyranitar is easier to check than counter due to it's slow speed and monster attack. Fighting-type Pokemon resist Tyranitar's STAB moves and can switch in and scare out usually, only fearing Superpower. Conkeldurr in particular has enough bulk to stomach a Superpower, making it an excellent check. Scizor, Jirachi, Mamoswine, and Garchomp all can check it, hitting hard with their STAB moves, and can even able to come in on some of Tyranitar's moves. Politoed changes the weather and threatens to KO. Dugtrio can revenge Tyranitar with Earthquake at about 60% health.

 

[MCBarrett]

What To Use

Heatran @ Air Balloon/ Leftovers/ Chople Berry
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest/ Timid Nature
- Magma Storm
- Sunny Day
- SolarBeam
- Earth Power/ HP Ice

Role: Support

What it does: Storm Trapper Heatran is a fantastic Pokemon on Sun Teams since it can lure out opposing Politoed that are trying to set up the Rain and trap it with Magma Storm on the switch. From there Heatran can set up a Sunny Day to put the weather in its favor and take out Politoed with Solar Beam. Heatran also provides a valuable Dragon Resist for Sun Teams which is nice. The item is basically personal preference, Air Balloon and Chople Berry allow for more switch-in opportunities and Leftovers gives more longevity. The Final Move Slot is either used for coverage based on your teams needs. An added bonus is the sheer power that Magma Storm provides under the sun, doing major damage anything that does not resist it. Another nice thing is that it can break through the Sash of incoming Dugtrio thanks to the extra 6% damage Magma Storm does each turn. Timid allows Heatran to outspeed Adamant Dragonite and Toxic Stall Gliscor so if using HP Ice this is the preferred option.

Good Teammates: Obviously this set lends itself to Sun Teams so Ninetales is basically a necessary mention. Anything that can resist most of Heatran's weaknesses and also can fit on to a Sun Team are appreciated as well. Xatu comes to mind with it's Ground Immunity and 4x resistance to Fighting Type moves. Dugtrio deserves mention as well since it can trap opposing Heatran and free up TrapTran's final Move Slot. Also, Dugtrio can trap opposing Tyranitar very effectively so your team is covered against both weathers. Lastly, any Chlorophyll sweeper such as Venusaur and Sawsbuck, that can take advantage of having the weather in their favor, are a must or else Heatran's efforts to change the weather are not fully taken advantage of.

What Counters It: Special walls such as Blissey and Cresselia are obviously going to be able to be a problem since they have reliable recovery and can tank hits for days, plus you will have to string a few Magma Storm hits together to even have a chance to take them out. Dugtrio deserves a mention since it can easily trap and revenge kill as long as your Air Balloon is broken. Opposing Heatran can also be troublesome if Earth Power is not being used. Scarf Politoed deserves a mention as well because it can foil your plans at trapping it if the Scarf has been bluffed well enough or if you do not adjust to the situation. When facing Scarf Toed you should use Sunny Day on the switch in to weaken its Water Type attacks and give you a chance at hitting back with a strong Solar Beam. Chople Berry definitely helps against Scarf Toed as well since it weakens Focus Blast.

Additional Comments: Storm Trapper Heatran provides great support for Sun Teams in multiple ways and helps to get the edge on Rain Teams that can give Sun loads of trouble. As stated earlier the dragon resist is an added bonus since the Lati twins are such big threats to sun. This set even has its merits against sand as well since bulky waters like Jellicent and Gastrodon can be trapped effectively. Overall this set is very effective and has some nice surprise factor making it very fun to use. It should definitely be considered on any balanced Sun Team.

 

[Gary]

What to use (Late-game Sweeper)

Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

Speed is the name of the game in Black/White 2. With new, faster, and more powerful threats being constantly introduced, the ability to outspeed them all is of paramount importance... unless your name happens to be Reuniclus, in which case being slower than molasses in an igloo is a major advantage. Being a Psychic-type is hard, but Reuniclus has the tools to make it work, such as high base Special Attack, an amazing ability that prevents any indirect damage, and a movepool that contains all the options it'll ever need. The idea is simple: once the opponents team has been sufficiently worn down, bring in Reuniclus and set up Trick Room. Inside the twisted dimensions, the only things that can "outspeed" him are priority moves and Ferrothorn with Gyro Ball, who can do little to stop him. There's not many Pokemon that can take the might of Reuniclus' life orb-boosted hits, making him a deadly sweeper that can rip apart offensive teams.

Good Teammates: Tyranitar and Reuniclus make an extremely effective duo. Many of the Pokemon capable of suviving a hit or two from Reuniclus are Psychic-types, such as Celebi and Latias, whom Tyranitar can make mincemeat out of. Tyranitar's sandstorm can also help wear down the opposing team while doing no damage to Reuniclus itself. In addition, Trick Room can "speed up" Tyranitar as well. A Fighting-type like Keldeo or Terrakion also function well with Reuniclus, as they can deal with Chansey and Blissey for Reuniclus, and when joined with Tyranitar, from the formidable Dark/Psychic/Fighting core. Conkeldurr can also make a good partner with Reuniclus, as he enjoys the "speed boost" from Trick Room, but be cautious in putting so many slow Pokemon on a team if Reuniclus is going to be the only Trick Room inducer.

What Counters It: Jirachi is Reuniclus' biggest counter, as it can stomach all of it's hits with ease and flinch Reuniclus to death once Trick Room wears out, all the while not being weak to Tyranitar. Latias, Celebi and Slowking are in a similar boat, each avoiding the 2HKO from Shadow Ball, but these Pokemon need to watch out for Tyranitar. Volcarona and Scizor can also stomach a hit from Reuniclus if they are at high health and finish him off with their Bug-type move of choice, and Scizor can even Pursuit trap him or finish him off with Bullet Punch if he's weakened. Unless Reuniclus is running Psyshock, which they usually don't, Chansey and Blissey wall him consummately, but Reuniclus will almost always carry a partner to deal with these Pokemon for that very reason, and they will need to be wary of them.

Fuck yeah I love OTR Reuniclus. I use it all the time. By the way, I think you should actually slash Signal Beam over Shadow Ball because it keeps Celebi from stalling out TR if you were to use Shadow Ball. Although Reuniclus can still not break through Latias, the ability to break through the ever so common Celebi is huge, especially if you choose not to partner Reuniclus with a Pursuit trapper. It's kind of a similar case to Alakazam, who is now commonly seen running Signal Beam over Shadow Ball.

 

[Shurtugal]

(Hazard Lead)

@

Trait: Own Temp
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Spore
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Explosion / Magic Coat

What it Does: Smearlge is a very unusual hazard lead; however, Smeargle is currently the fastest user of both SR and Spikes in OU, meaning that Smeargle gets the jump on Skarmory. Smeargle is better than it's counterpart in Skarmory in a few ways and it's important you know the difference between the two: firstly, Skarmory can usually get up more hazards than Smeargle. That is not to say Smeargle cannot get up hazards either, it's just not as fast at getting them up without the aid of Custap Berry. However, one of the most important things to note is that, Smeargle is a better match up against Tentacruel and Forretress (for starters, (BAN ME PLEASE)s cannot lead a Spinner vs. Smeargle unless it's name is Starmie and not eat a Spore) but Smeargle can also EXPLODE on them if they decide to come in, and therefore is much more useful against spinners. Smeargle can also explode on things like Dragonite (assuming you come in midgame, etc. since Smeargle will stick around depending on your opponents team) and QD Volcarona and SD Toxicroak and all kinds of random things that try to abuse Smeargle's pathetic offensive stats to set up on (hey; doing more than 50% to Volcarona and doing more than 50% to Toxicroak is all the damage it NEEDS to do in order to warrant merit). If you use this set, you'll often find that it can become death fodder (and it gets up hazards decently well enough too) more than you'd expect by looking at it from paper.

Good Teammates: While Smeargle might fare better against spinners, anti-Skarm leads in Taunt Gengar and Bryce's Jirachi will still pose problems for poor ole Smeargle, so anything that can combat fast taunt users or Jirachi are most appreciated (for example, things like Keldeo can smash Gengar leads and things like Garchomp can smack down Jirachi).

Also, Smeargle; beyond anti leads, doesn't really need support of it's own. Pairing Smeargle to anything that appreciates hazards and Spore support (which is pretty much any offensive Pokemon) can work perfectly with Smeargle. Due to the fact that Smeargle can be used as death fodder (I know it sounds stupid but you have to use it since Smeargle actually ends up sticking around for a bit since its speed tier is not shabby and can come in later and Explode / Spore / Hazard something before dying since Smeargle is often forced out after getting Rocks and Spore up) a lot of offensive Pokemon can benefit from Smeargle.

I'd say idealistically that Smeargle fits on offensive teams that cannot afford to run an Anti-Skarm Pokemon and therefore risk a Taunt war with opposing Skarm (which is a HUGE 50 / 50 for turn 1) and so Smeargle can act as anti-Skarm AND hazard support.

What Counters Smeargle?: Bryce's Jirachi (or any Jirachi really) is a good example of a Pokemon that makes Smeargle's life hell. It can flinch Smeargle into tomorrow, while Taunt Gengar does not care at all about Smeargle (unless you op for Magic Coat, but really Explosion is so much better). Taunt Terrakion is another Pokemon that can remedy this Pokemon useless while Ninetales outspeed and WoW / Flamethrower. Scarf Tyranitar is also another fantastic counter to Smeargle in the regard that Smeargle Spores, and then dies after Superpower to Sand Damage. Xatu / Espeon (albeit; rare) can stop Smeargle from doing anything of value and can even bounce her hazards back at you, while Lum Berry Dragonite comes in and easily attacks it and sponges Spore.



Comments on Other Sets:

Heatran: Why Timid over Modest? Usually Ninetales will anti-lead Skarm so I don't see why you'd need Timid, especially since Timid Tran misses Adamant Luke by 1 speed point and misses Jolly Mamo, etc.

 

[MCBarrett]

Heatran: Why Timid over Modest? Usually Ninetales will anti-lead Skarm so I don't see why you'd need Timid, especially since Timid Tran misses Adamant Luke by 1 speed point and misses Jolly Mamo, etc.

Yeah I guess you're right. That's just what is recommended on site and I guess I never really thought about it, I'll fix that now though.

 

[Shurtugal]

I prefer Modest Heatran since Magma Storm is that much stronger in sun (and it helps power up Solar Beam vs. TTar too).

 

[Gary]

Yeah I guess you're right. That's just what is recommended on site and I guess I never really thought about it, I'll fix that now though.

Timid is nice if you're using HP Ice, because then you can outspeed Adamant Dragonite and Toxic Stall Gliscor, thus KOing them. If not, Modest is preferred.

 

[Starline]

Role: Late-game sweeper

Latias @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Dragon Pulse
- Substitute / Psyshock / Refresh

Latias is an excellent pokemon in BW2 OU, and arguably one of the best Calm Mind sweepers around. Furthermore, this set truly shines in that it makes use of every positive quality intrinsic to Latias, and utilizes all of her advantages over other similar options when selecting a teammate. Bulkier than Latios, she can set up on many weakened threats seen on offensive and defensive teams alike, while retaining her excellent speed and evading Paralysis and Leech Seed through the use of Substitute. Indeed, her high base 110 speed stat is one of her biggest advantages over other CM users, and can be invaluable in a pinch.

Dragon Pulse is an excellent, consistent STAB move, resisted only by steel-types (which can easily be handled with the proper team support - see below) and capable of cleaning up teams that have lost their special walls. Calm Mind is self-explanatory, making her even harder to take down on the special side and boosting her good special attack stat to very threatening levels. Roost keeps Latias healthy throughout the game, and thanks to it, this set retains Latias' ability to check pokemon often seen on Rain and Sun teams despite ultimately being a (bulky) sweeper. In the last slot, Substitute is the best option if you are set on sweeping with Latias late-game, and keeps moves like Thunder Wave and Leech Seed from holding her back. Psyshock is helpful in that it somewhat mitigates the need for team support, letting Latias beat Chansey and Blissey one-on-one (unless they carry both Toxic and Protect and are at full health when they switch in, before Latias has any boosts). Refresh is an interesting option in that it allows you to actually switch in on the aforementioned Toxics and Thunder Waves, making Latias a good status absorber (although you should still have another teammate to take Sleep Powders and Spores). Hidden Power Fire is sometimes seen in this slot, and is a decent option if you want a more offensively-oriented set, but causes you to lose the speed tie with opposing Gengar/Latios/Latias, and in general, Latias' teammates are better at beating steel-types either way.

Good teammates: Tyranitar and Hippowdon are great partners, in that their Sand Stream wears down walls and makes Latias' sweep even harder to stop. In return, Latias can easily switch in on the fighting- and water-types that threaten them. Latias is also a great check to other weather teams, specifically Sun and Rain. Fighting-types also make good teammates, since they beat the dark- and steel-types which make up most of Latias' checks. (Terrakion/Latias/Tyranitar, for example, makes a solid and bulky fighting/psychic/dark core that is capable of handling a significant number of this metagame's top threats.) They can also beat any of the common Pursuit users, which are able to trap and KO or severely damage Latias. Similarly, fire-types are good at taking down Scizor (which threatens Latias significantly) and, too, beat the steel-types that could otherwise wall Latias.

What counters it: Although solid team support should be able to wear down any and all of Latias' checks by the late phases of the match, there are unfortunately several notable pokemon that can either seriously damage Latias if she doesn't switch, defeat her one-on-one, or wall her when unboosted. Steel-types are the biggest problem you will encounter when using this set, since they resist her STABs and are generally quite bulky. Ferrothorn in particular is one of her top checks, although if it lacks Gyro Ball and Latias has Substitute, you won't be particularly threatened in return, either. Jirachi is a huge problem as it wins CM wars vs Latias one-on-one, and of the non-CM variants of Jirachi, specially defensive sets are among the most common. Moving on, Scizor is capable of seriously hurting Latias with Bug Bite, U-Turn, Pursuit, or various other options, and will do serious damage with Bullet Punch if boosted by Swords Dance or Choice Band. Tyranitar is not as threatening if you run Substitute, since you can escape Pursuit and generally don't have to (and shouldn't try to) set up Calm Minds when it's still present on the opponent's team. However, in a pinch, CM Latias is capable of beating weakened Tyranitar of most variants (her speed is valuable here, since unlike Reuniclus, Latias can pick off low-HP Choice Band Tyranitar before she gets hit with Crunch). Heracross, while rarely seen in OU, can outspeed with a Choice Scarf and has a guaranteed OHKO with Megahorn if you are not behind a Substitute. Weavile outspeeds, threatens to trap Latias with Pursuit, and like Mamoswine has STAB, super effective, priority Ice Shard, so those two will generally force Latias out. Chansey and Blissey have titanic special bulk but can be worn down through the course of a match and are hindered in their ability to stop a Latias sweep if Sandstorm is up. However, Psyshock will generally let you get past them if you choose to run it. Finally, Volcarona frequently uses Quiver Dance to boost its stats, letting outspeed Latias and hit hard with a strong, super-effective Bug Buzz. Most Volcarona are not bulky enough to take multiple boosted hits from Latias in return, however.

-Starline

Further information: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5939795/ (See line 3051 for full statistics on Latias' moves, items, teammates, and checks/counters.)

 

[Shurtugal]

@Starline: I would mention partners that can kill TTar since that is Latias's greatest enemy.

@Gary2346 and @MCBarrett: Also yeah I forgot it jumps DNite Gary, but Magma Storm Heatran in sun usually REALLY needs Earth Power since opposing Heatran are usually that problematic (Tales / Venu / HP Tran < other Heatran) so yeah I'd make Timid an OO mention or a secondary slash to Modest.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Well, I'd say this Pokemon is more of a Stall Breaker, but since that isn't an option, I'm going to list it under support (unless Subject 18 makes a section for stall breakers).

Role: Support

Sableye @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SDef
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt
- Foul Play

Sableye was generally outclassed by Spiritomb as a spin blocker in generation 4. However, generation 5 brought new abilities to older Pokemon. Sableye received one of the best abilities in the game for a support Pokemon, and allowed it to out shine it's Dark / Ghost cousin, Spiritomb. Prankster gives +1 priority to any none attacking move (this doesn't mean moves like Roar are +1 priority, it means every support move is +1 of it's original priority number, meaning phazing moves are still like -5 priority). This allows Sableye to use Will-O-Wisp, Recover, and Taunt at +! priority, making it extremely hard for stall teams to break down, since they generally rely on indirect damage to KO their opponents. Apart from ripping Stall teams apart, it also is the number one counter to Reuniclus, as well as being able to Spin Block for your team.

EV's and move set explanation: Will-O-Wisp cripples any physical attacker that isn't a Fire type. Scizor, Keldeo, Breloom, and Landorus-T's attack will be halved if they are burned, allowing Sableye to tank physical attacks easily. +1 Will-O-Wisp is amazing, as it's a last ditch effort to stop set up sweepers like DD Dragonite and Swords Dance Terrakion from ruining your team. Recover keeps Sableye nice and healthy, and allows it to stay around for the majority of the match. What's sp good about +1 Recover is that Sableye is generally pretty hard to OHKO at full health, which is where it will always be will priority Recover. Taunt is used to keep hazards off of the field, stop set up sweepers from getting any boosts, and stops any Stall Pokemon from supporting the team. Foul Play is used to hit Physical attackers for decent damage, as it hits off of the opposing Pokemon's attack. Basically, if you're facing Salamence, you're hitting Salamence with a 90 base power attack coming off of a base 135 attack stat.

Good team mates: Sableye really appreciates a cleric of some sort. Blissey / Chansey come to mind, as they share decent synergy, while Blissey can tank to strong special attackers that Sableye just can't handle. Blissey also loves to face Burned physical attackers, as it makes it much easier to tank hits from a burned physical attacker. Blissey can also Sableye's best counter (Heatran) very easily. Heatran is also a pretty solid partner too, as it takes on a lot of special attackers like Latios and opposing Heatran lacking Earth Power. Sableye can also easily switch into Fighting type attacks aimed at Heatran. Celebi offers Heal Bell support for Sableye, as well as a nice switch in to Special attackers like Starmie, Keldeo (that lack HP bug), and Politoed.

What counters Sableye: Heatran. Heatran is the number one counter to Sableye, as it can potentially burn it will Lava Plume, Toxic it as it Recovers, or just phaze it out with Roar. While most of these moves are stopped by Taunt, Sableye is going to have to spam recover to take on Heatran's Lava Plume (especially if they're Flash Fire boosted, which is easily done when switching into Will-O-Wisp). Offensive variants of Heatran can put a nice dent into Sableye fire Fire Blast, while Sableye can't do anything to hit Heatran back. Strong special attackers don't mind being burned too much, and can usually muscle their way through Sableye's low defences. Keldeo, Rotom-W, and Politoed can all hit it very hard with boosted Water type attacks. Faster Taunt users (although uncommon I'll admit) really stop Sableye in it's tracks, as a Taunted Sableye can't do anything other than hit them with a weak Foul Play. Most bulky water types like Vaporeon, defensive Starmie, and Tentacruel can dispose of Sableye in fear of the Scald burn, while these bulky waters generally don't mind a burn too much. Finally, status really hinders Sableye's walling capabilities. This is easily achievable with Scald / Lava Plume burns, Toxic on the switch, or even Toxic Spikes.

 

[Jukain]

This is one of my favorite hazard setters to use in OU. I made a pretty good team with it not so long ago, and I'd like to share its set.

Accelgor @ Focus Sash
Trait: Unburden
EVs: 92 HP / 228 SAtk / 188 Spd
Modest Nature
- Spikes
- Bug Buzz
- Final Gambit
- Hidden Power Fire

Accelgor is a really stellar Spikes lead. Spikes are really great in this metagame because they enable offensive Pokemon to literally rip apart even their most reliable counters. Its main advantage is being really fast. The Custap 'mons are all slow and thus weak to faster Taunt. They're pretty much autolose to Kyurem-B due to it negating Sturdy. Accelgor trades this for a slight priority weakness -- which is troublesome -- but it makes up for it by being really strong. It has the ability to defeat common threats to hazard setters, like the Magic Bouncers. It gives no opportunities for every Rapid Spinner in the tier to come in. It's strong enough to do its job. Unlike much of what's in the metagame right now, Accelgor is an offensive Spikes lead -- a nearly forgotten role.

EVs and moveset explanation: Bug Buzz nails Espeon, Alakazam, Tyranitar, and Starmie most importantly, along with a couple other things. Hidden Power Fire nails Scizor, which is important because you don't want to risk it 2HKOing with Bullet Punch and not letting you get up any Spikes at all. It's also good for stuff like Skarmory and Forretress -- other common hazard leads. You'll want to Bug Buzz before the Hidden Power Fire to limit it to one layer of hazards though. Ferrothorn is a last target, though it's rare that you'll actually be in a situation where you'll have to hit it with something. Final Gambit is a great last move -- the HP EVs ensure it OHKOes 4 HP Terrakion and Keldeo from full health. Final Gambit deals 324 damage to anything you want. That OHKOes many offensive Pokemon and does a ton to more defensive ones as well. Of all things, Final Gambit sets Accelgor apart.

Good teammates: Being a suicide hazard lead, Accelgor isn't in much need of teammates. You'll want a spinblocker -- there isn't much better than Gengar. You'll in particular want something that matches up well against Tyranitar -- Tailwind Hydreigon is a good consideration an offensive team. Choice Scarf Landorus-T is another interesting option. A spinblocker is almost mandatory, as you don't want your hard-gotten hazards to go to waste. Gengar is really the only plausible offensive spinblocker in OU, so that's pretty much what you have to run. In addition to it you'll want something that can come into Tentacruel and Starmie and kill them, like Choice Scarf Kyurem-B. All sweepers benefit from Spikes -- in particular Pokemon that force many switches like Terrakion, Keldeo, and Latios make great choices. Out of these, only the spinblocker is strictly mandatory. You have great flexibility when building with Accelgor, as it's really a team supporter.

What counters Accelgor: There really isn't a lot that can "beat" Accelgor per se, so you're best bet is limiting it to one layer. Scizor's Bullet Punch can bring it down to its sash and limit it to one layer. Unfortunately, this comes at the cost of a dead Scizor, which means you're likely screwed against Accelgor's teammates due to your lack of priority. Tyranitar is probably the most reliable one to stop it at one layer -- you can theoretically go for Bug Buzz but it doesn't do enough to matter. Stone Edge will bring Accelgor down to its sash, and sandstorm damage will finish it off. Do note that revenging it is not going to work as well as you might think. If you bring it down to its sash and it consumes its sash, then its Speed is doubled thanks to Unburden. Otherwise your best bet is Breloom with Spore, which can easily limit it to one layer of Spikes...but it really can't do much back. Bullet Seed doesn't even OHKO on average. Additionally, Breloom is fodder for a Latios/Latios to come in and kill. Xatu is among the best checks -- you can take a Bug Buzz (be careful though it 2HKOes) and paralyze it. However, you're still probably going to lose your Xatu unless you're lucky and get a full para on the first turn and hit Heat Wave (the latter isn't that difficult but the odds against you add up). It's really hard to prevent Accelgor from doing what it wants in all honesty, and its checks become setup fodder for the rest of its team.

 

[Subject 18]

@ShootinStarmie I can add more roles if need be like Stall breaker, Lure and such. If you have certain role that doesn't have its own section. Let me know and we can discuss if its needed or not.

I'll be adding the sets in a minute if there aren't any objections or necessary changes, everything looks fine to me.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Yeah @Subject 18 I really do think there should be a section for stall breakers. I'd say they're different compared to support Pokemon, but I guess fill in similar roles? That's questionable, but a few examples I can think of are CM Reuniclus, Sableye, Jellicent(?), and Taunt Glicsor. I dunno, I mean its your thread and I love it so far, but I just feel most of these Pokemon would be placed in "support" when in fact they're stall breakers imo. Maybe we could listen to how other people feel on the subject.

 

[Shurtugal]

Why not put it in both places. Like both in support and stall breakers, since they can do both?

 

[MCBarrett]

Yeah I would agree that some sets should be put in multiple sections. For example Mamoswine should be in the Revenge Killer section as well as the Wall Breaker section.

 

[Jukain]

I hate SubDisable Gengar. It's so beyond useless imo. This thing is so much better. You can yell at me for ranting about team construction in the "What counters Gengar" section, but I think that was pretty needed for the writing to logically flow.

Gengar @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power Fire

This Gengar is just so ridiculously good. The extra attack you get is so worth forgoing honestly situational moves imo. Disable is just unreliable and doesn't work anyway against stuff like Tentacruel and Starmie that make Gengar's life miserable. I mean I guess with good play you can do good with Disable, but it just doesn't click with me. Instead of screwing around against Ferrothorn, you can easily KO it. MYSTICGar is just so strong. Protect has numerous benefits, eliminating guessing games against things like Scizor and making your life overall so much easier. You can scout anything -- just don't play too recklessly with Protect, or you might just find yourself set-up on. The cool thing though is that not a lot can set up on Gengar. If Scizor uses Bullet Punch (which you can determine with Protect), you switch out. If Scizor uses Pursuit (again, use Protect), you get to go straight for an HP Fire and kill it -- if not you've at least forced it out. You really have to play good with this thing, as it is definitely no defensive giant, but it's still very good -- it does falter against Starmie but that's something you're going to have to deal with.

EV spread and moveset explanation: Shadow Ball is the obligatory STAB, and serves a very important purpose -- murdering Starmie. Aside from killing Starmie, it 2HKOes Tentacruel once it's been sufficiently damaged by hazards. It does good enough damage, 2HKOing most neutrally hit Pokemon that aren't too bulky. Focus Blast gets perfect coverage with Shadow Ball, but it's not really relied upon as much as on other sets here. Since you have HP Fire, Focus Blast now only is important for three Pokemon -- Kyurem-B, Kyurem-N, and Tyranitar. It really isn't needed against anything else, which is actually great, because relying on a 70% accuracy move for important is generally a risky idea. Hidden Power Fire completely makes up for the lack of Disable, nuking Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory, and Scizor -- the big four Steel-types. It's so much better not having to rely on Focus Blast against these Pokemon, especially against Scizor, who you now guaranteed will not die to thanks to Protect.

Good teammates: This thing is really a great team supporter for HO teams. Classifying it as a special sweeper would be wrong -- this thing is pure spinblocking support, through and through. It also singlehandedly demolishes both Magic Bouncers, making it super easy to get your hazards up. However, I wouldn't use it without some sort of hazard setter. Custap Berry Skarmory and Forretress in addition to Smeargle, Accelgor, etc. come to mind. Unfortunately, Gengar does have a bit of a struggle against Starmie, so Choice Scarf Tyranitar makes a fantastic partner. It's a great addition to HO teams in general, being able to get rid of annoying Latis, opposing Gengars, Celebi, and of course Starmie itself while being a solid revenge killer. Choice Scarf Kyurem-B isn't a bad option if you don't want to have sand up for whatever reason (Life Orb sweepers come to mind). Other than these threats, I wouldn't say anything truthfully threatens Gengar enough to warrant a specific partner, as you really only need Gengar to spinblock your suicide lead's hazards. Otherwise, I don't think its use is at all warranted.

What counters Gengar: In all honesty the biggest threat to Gengar is Starmie. It can't switch in, but Gengar can't overcome it. If it lacks Psyshock, Gengar can take most attacks and hit back, but that's not enough -- it's why you're almost required to run a Scarfer like Tyranitar or Kyurem-B with Gengar if you want Starmie gone. SD Scizor is also dangerous -- as you Protect it can set up and easily kill with Bullet Punch. It's something to watch out for and have something like Keldeo for in case it appears. Customizing your offensive team to have an option in case you give Scizor a free setup opportunity is key -- Volcarona, Infernape (yes this thing is /okay/ for what it does), and the aforementioned Keldeo come to mind. Scarftar is also a huge issue, as it doesn't care about Protect and just Pursuits Gengar whether you like it or not. The best way to combat this is against to simply have Pokemon that can set up on it. Blissey counters Gengar and can in fact completely steal away its momentum, but Blissey is really exploitable with all kinds of Fighting-type sweepers running around so it shouldn't be too big of a deal.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Erm, I think I might have some disagreement with this set, but I'll post my points and see what everyone else thinks

(Role: Mixed Sweeper)

Keldeo @ Expert Belt
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power Bug

Now, Keldeo is hitting with its high special attack, and is not using physical attacks moves. However, the reason why I think we can call this a special sweeper is because of 1 move. Secret Sword. Secret Sword hits the opponent on their physical side, even though it comes off of Keldeo's special attack. This stops so many special walls from being able to switch in to Keldeo, as the majority of special walls are weak to Fighting type attacks. Special walls that come to mind of Blissey, Ferrothorn, Heatran, and Tyranitar. This alone makes me class Keldeo as a mixed sweeper.

Good teammates: Right. So there are two obvious partners. Tyranitar and Politoed. Lets begin with Tyranitar. Most of Keldeo's checks are trapped by Tyranitar. Jellicent, Laitas, Celebi, and Slowbro all fear being Pursuit trapped by Banded Tyranitar. Tyranitar also helps eliminate Ninetales, which hinders Keldeo's sweeping abilities, as its STAB Water types attacks damage is halved. Politoed is Keldeo's next best team mates, as it boosts its Water STAB attacks to stupidly powerful levels. This allows Keldeo to muscle through some of its checks, like Gyarados, Salamence, and Rotom-W. Otherteam mates include Weavile, Scizor, and Breloom. Weavile and Scizor offer Pursuit trapping support while not resorting to Tyranitar ( meaning you can use Politoed too!), while Breloom removes most bulky waters that can take on Keldeo, like Jellicent and Slowbro.

What counters Keldeo: The best counters (or checks) that come to mind are Pokemon that resist Keldeo's STABs. Jellicent, Celebi, Slowbro, Slowking, Amoonguss, Gyarados, Dragonite, Latias, and Salamence are all I can think of at the moment. While Keldeo can muscle through most of these Pokemon, it does need perfect conditions to do so (rain, maybe pursuit support, and perfect prediction). Also, these counters also depend on what coverage move Keldeo is running. Keldeo lacking HP electric are checked nicely by Gyarados. Keldeo lacking HP ice are checked nicely by Dragonite, and Salamence (to an extent). Keldeo lacking HP bug are walled by Celebi. And finally, Keldeo lacking HP Ghost are walled by Jellicent. Gastrodon is also a solid check to Keldeo, as its immune to Water type attacks and doesn't take much from Secret Sword. All in all, beating Keldeo requires smart play, and solid switch ins.

Additional comments: There's a reason Keldeo has been getting a lot of discussion about a suspect test, and that's because many people believe to be broken. Keldeo is insanely good in this metagame, and perhaps the king at the moment, but does that make Keldeo broken? That's up for you to decide.

 

[PDC]

(Late-Game Sweeper / Special Sweeper)

Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Grass Knot

Thundurus-T is simply an amazing threat in the current metagame. Not only does it completely destroy common Rain offensive teams with proper prediction, but it overall is an amazing Pokemon to gain momentum with or in general just pivot about with a very powerful Volt Switch. Many people at first used a Scarf or Nasty Plot set strictly, but as time went on people realized it did neither of those 2 sets very effectively. Nasty Plot purely is just too slow, and it really can only do heavy damage to stall. Double Dance remedied this problem and is now almost an infatuation with many players because of how good it can be. But this set instead uses the traditional surprise factor and Thundurus-Ts raw power to make its use. Expert Belt is a very solid set, and it can make very good use of it because of how flexible its movest can be. Focus Blast can take out pesky Ferrothorn which attempt to come into Thudurus, while Hidden Power Ice can easily combat slower Dragons thanks to its Expert Belt boost. Volt Switch in general acts as an amazingly strong pivot move while Thunderbolt does a fantastic job at just in general hitting hard. This set has been used very often on not just Rain offense, but weatherless as well. Thundurus-T like said before can give Rain offense a great deal of trouble due to its great coverage and awkward speed number.

Good Teammates: Thundurus-T despises the likes of Specially Defensive Celebi and Lati@s to be specific. Thanks to Volt Switch it can pressure both into switching into either Tyranitar or Scizor who can either Pursuit or set up on them. SD AcroZor works as a great partner due to how it can easily take advantage of all switches that players will likely respond to Thundurus-T with. Other great partners are Jirachi and (yes this set is pretty cool) Life Orb Heatran. Both easily work well with Thundurs-T and can pressure switches very well, while also potentially putting up SR.

Additional Comments: Thundurus-T is simply fantastic, and although it isn't as fast as its banned form, it definitely is a little stronger and still functions well as an amazing pivot and sometimes sweeper. DoubleDance is definitely cool and gives it multiple win conditions depending on opportunity, but I like this set a bit better and was wondering why nobody even mentioned it yet. Sometimes, you can even use this set as a lure as not everybody (surprisingly) recognizes the Expert Belt.

 

[dadoux]

Your review is good but i don't really understand how Thundurus without agility is a Late-game Sweeper, it's more of a midgame Wallbreaker to me.

Btw am I the only who plays with U-turn other Volt switch ? It does a surprising amount of damage on Celebi / Latios without any atk evs, Ferrothorn or Garchomp do not really want to take a Focus Blast or a Hp ice so the Rough / Helmet situation isn't really an issue imo

 

[TheArchangle]

Wallbreaker

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Rash/Mild Nature
- Dark Pulse/Earthquake/Roost
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Superpower


What it does: Boasting fantastic mixed offensive stats, one of the strongest offensive move pools in the entire game, and a seriously underrated STAB combination, Hydreigon exists as one of the most potent wall breakers in the entire OU tier. Being one of the few pokemon that can boast to have no true counters, there isn't a single pokemon in the game that can safely switch into Hydreigon. As a result, many sweepers will enjoy the offensive support Hydreigon provides with its ability to destroy the walls that exist in the OU tier.

Good Teammates: Hydreigon can successfully fulfill its role on the team without any support. As a result, the real question is what do you want supported by Hydreigon. Most sweepers pair well with Hydreigon as they appreciate its ability to clear out the walls that would normally KO them. The only support that Hydreigon really appreciates is Thunder Wave support due to its middling spread. This makes Jirachi a great partner as it also synergies well.

What counters it: Nothing. That's the beautiful thing about Hydreigon, it literally has no counters(there's a difference between a counter and a check). Hydreigon's flaw comes in now because what it does have, is a multitude of checks. While nothing wants to switch into this offensive behemoth, the multitude of fast and powerful threats in the OU metagame can come in to revenge kill Hydreigon. The most common threatening would be Keldeo and Terrakion as they will always outspeed this variant of Hydreigon and can KO Hydreigon in return. Also, Hydreigon fears priority Mach Punch from the likes of Breloom and Conkeldurr for example.

Additional comments: Hydreigon is one of the greatest (and most forgotten) wall breakers in the OU tier. Most people would say that it's outclassed by Specs Latios or Kyurem B but Hydreigon boasts superior mixed attacking stats to Latios and a far superior move pool to Kyurem Black. If you're looking for a special wall breaker, then take Latios. If you're looking for a physical wall breaker, choose Kyurem Black. But, if you're looking for a pokemon that does both jobs nearly as well(if not as well or better) and can take down any pokemon you need it to, than look no further than Hydreigon.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

What counters it: Nothing. That's the beautiful thing about Hydreigon, it literally has no counters(there's a difference between a counter and a check).

While it may have no counters (which really isn't that big of a deal in BW2), you should at least list some decent switch ins or checks. Scizor, Breloom, Keldeo, Latios, Terrakion, and Jirachi all come to mind for checks or revenge killers. Also, I think you're forgetting that Hydreigon requires perfect prediction to be un counter-able, and even then Chansey avoids the 2HKO from Hydreigon's Super Power.

 

[TheArchangle]

^I'll add some checks but really it's not that hard to predict the switches and if you want to be safe, most pokemon will still take a huge chunk from a Draco right off the bat.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

^I'll add some checks but really it's not that hard to predict the switches and if you want to be safe, most pokemon will still take a huge chunk from a Draco right off the bat.

Honestly that's very questionable. If Hydreigon was as good as you made it out to be it wouldn't be receiving such low usage. Regardless of how good it is as a Pokemon, it still is a good wall breaker (regardless of how much usage it's seeing) so cool set I guess, it's just this thread is meant to be informative for newer players, and I don't want to see everyone using this set just because someone said its un-counterable.