New UU List (January 2010)

[FlareBlitz]

No one is attempting to say that Cress has all those moves, merely that the counters for one moveset vary vastly from another moveset (which was the same point made about Garchomp). If you try to switch in Drapion, Raikou or Mismagius into an expected CM set and end up eating a Thunder Wave, you're fucked. And if you switch in a resttalker to absorb Cress' status and it starts Calm Minding on you, you're similarly fucked. And this is assuming that you actually manage to have a counter to the CM set in the first place that isn't Duggy bait (like Drapion and Raikou are).

 

[NoahS]

Oh Typhlosion down to NU?
Like Porygon-Z on UU :)

 

[1017]

Poor 'Cross should be in UU

 

[NoahS]

I noticed in the stats that Umbreon has higher usage than Crobat.
Doesnt that change anything?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I noticed in the stats that Umbreon has higher usage than Crobat.
Doesnt that change anything?

No, because Crobat is in BL, a tier which is not based on usage.

Poor 'Cross should be in UU

These statements never make sense to me; it shouldn't be in UU because it's used more than the cutoff for OU.

 

[NoahS]

Yeah just realized that.
Thought it was OU for some reason, lol.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Yeah just realized that.
Thought it was OU for some reason, lol.

It probably would be if it had Stealth Rock. It's a great lead for Rain Dance teams, but those aren't as effective in OU.

 

[phalanx]

i'm tmpted to run cress+porygon-z combo, with reflect up, Porygon-Z can be nasty AND has some cover from priority fighthing to boot.
personally anything that drops from OU shold go BL with testing for UU, because its starting to get problematic.
anyone going to be running scyther? faster then P-Z has decent attacks V porygon-z AND cressalia

 

[Roserade Raider]

What i'm surprised about is Walrein not moving up to UU! It's pretty overpowered for NU, especially Stallrein (duh), and also HGSS's addition of Super Fang. I'm expecting its usage to skyrocket even more now that Leafeon is gone. Typhlosion dropping down probably also means a moratorium on NU Grass-types... the only truly bulky one left is Meganium.

 

[capefeather]

No one is attempting to say that Cress has all those moves, merely that the counters for one moveset vary vastly from another moveset (which was the same point made about Garchomp).

I was talking more about the overhype arguments rather than the more reasonable arguments (same with Garchomp lol).

personally anything that drops from OU shold go BL with testing for UU, because its starting to get problematic.

I doubt that every new OU dropdown will be of Cresselia's calibre lol.

 

[Yuggles]

I was talking more about the overhype arguments rather than the more reasonable arguments (same with Garchomp lol).



I doubt that every new OU dropdown will be of Cresselia's calibre lol.

Actually, some Pokemon that are actually higher in usage could no doubt join UU without much trouble. Namely, Dusknoir, Roserade, Tentacruel, perhaps Mamoswine and Weavile.

 

[Avira]

Actually, some Pokemon that are actually higher in usage could no doubt join UU without much trouble. Namely, Dusknoir, Roserade, Tentacruel, perhaps Mamoswine and Weavile.

You are implying that capefeather believes that every OU dropout will be near or equally as powerful as Cresselia, which is false. Read his/her post again.

 

[Force Majeure]

The problem with Cress in determining its "power" is that it isn't an offensive pokemon. We've had a lot of Suspects that went BL under the Offensive Characteristic and I *think* (correct me if I'm wrong), only one, Crobat, that went under Support. It's much easier to detect overpowered pokes in terms of "can KO everything incredibly easily" than "can help others KO everything easily" or "can not be KO'd reliably". Whether or not the last is true of Cress remains to be seen.

 

[phalanx]

tentacruel was UU once, back in the OLD UU that was when UU was even weaker then it is now.
no not every poke is as good as cress, but reading this.
Cresselia is the bulkiest Pokemon in the OU metagame and can easily support her team, on the analysis page. it there in black and white,.
although with all the ghosts around

 

[petrie911]

The problem with Cress in determining its "power" is that it isn't an offensive pokemon. We've had a lot of Suspects that went BL under the Offensive Characteristic and I *think* (correct me if I'm wrong), only one, Crobat, that went under Support. It's much easier to detect overpowered pokes in terms of "can KO everything incredibly easily" than "can help others KO everything easily" or "can not be KO'd reliably". Whether or not the last is true of Cress remains to be seen.

Abomasnow and Froslass (originally) were banned under support. Crobat was effectively banned under support, but it's a bit more complicated than that since he didn't exactly fit the definition.

Still, the interesting thing about Cresselia is that I wouldn't say it even fits the support characteristic. It can dual screen and spread status, but plenty of Pokemon can do that. Uxie does pretty much every support role Cresselia has better. No, if Cresselia is banned, it's going to be under the defensive characteristic, a characteristic that has not had a single suspect in any test, UU or OU. Ever since I nominated Milotic for the defensive characteristic during the Yanmega vote, it has seemed like the defensive characteristic is flawed. It looks like we'll finally get to see what a true defensive suspect does to a metagame.

 

[43R0D4CTYL]

Is Qwilfish now mainly used as Spiker or as SDer in UU? Or what´s the reason it became UU?

 

[Dan Dan]

From what I've experienced, Cresselia seems to be able to fit into most teams as a general transition mon, able to take a neutral/resisted hit while gaining information on the opponent. I've only used it as a screen/Lunar Dancer so far, but this thing has quite a few viable sets which should be interesting to test. Next one I'm gonna try is a Psycho Shift/Rest/Sleep Talk @ Flame Orb set :)

 

[charmander6000]

No it became UU because it was used a lot in UU. A Pokemon could have 50% usage in NU and it wouldn't move to UU unless it got a lot of usage there too.

Also Qwilfish is rather popular in a rain dance team.

 

[capefeather]

I'm pretty sure 43R0D4CTYL was just asking what made Qwilfish more popular, guys. <.<

 

[Stagnant]

I used Qwilfish extensively last meta because of his ability to switch-in to most things with ease and setup Spikes.

 

[Yuggles]

You are implying that capefeather believes that every OU dropout will be near or equally as powerful as Cresselia, which is false. Read his/her post again.

I was agreeing with his statement. I may have worded it wrong slightly, don't get upset though.

 

[phalanx]

ok had a quick run through with a team i put together to try a couple of pokes, had a couple of pokes faint 6... those 2 were..
scyther 3 times
cresselia 2 times
why is cress fainting 6 pokes with little problem? and scyther, if you can get a swords dance up and have rapid spin support (or switch it in over rocks with wish support) is acctually very handy.
one of the cress sweeps was against rain dance, plain insane.. all because of moonlight and charge beam making stalling out the rain and damaging easy.
this is using the CM set, there was no misses, no crits, no nothing to sway result in my favour.
as for scyther... its obvious really, decent movepool fast speed, after a SD it can destroy cress, AND porygon-z, so scyther is one option we have.. but little else, if anything can deal with both, and it NEEDS support to work.

 

[Yamitahuvaka]

Poliwrath you beast! Bulk Up Poliwrath hasn't failed me yet XD

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Well, I could see uu leafeon, since he has so much defensive and offensive potential. But I must say... Poor espeon. I bet jumpman's seething inside with rage right now. >.>

still love that guy, even if... Oh, sniff.

 

[Yuggles]

Well, I could see uu leafeon, since he has so much defensive and offensive potential. But I must say... Poor espeon. I bet jumpman's seething inside with rage right now. >.>

still love that guy, even if... Oh, sniff.

Who cares? You can still use him in UU/OU/Ubers all you want.