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Victim of the Week v2, Kyurem
- Thread starter Prinz
- Start date
Actually, HP Fire is most common on mixed 3 attacks + Roost/4 attacks. HP Fire is rather uncommon on Sub in my experience -- mostly, I see Fusion Bolt + Earth Power + Ice Beam. If not that, it's Dragon Claw + Fusion Bolt + Ice Beam/Roost. If not either, it's a shitty Earth Power + Ice Beam SubRoost set that's outclassed by Kyurem-N. That being said,Bullet Punch doesn't even OHKO or come close, and thus Roost 3 attacks destroys it.
I don't think countering Kyurem-B is strictly possible. The best you can do to handle it (at least on an offensive team) is Flash Cannon Shuca Berry Jirachi:
Jirachi @ Shuca Berry
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Flash Cannon
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power Fire / Thunder / Energy Ball / Grass Knot
This is a pretty simple and standard set, except with Flash Cannon in the slot where the Grass-type move would usually be. It can take an Earth Power on Kyurem-B's expecting to surprise you and Flash Cannon it to death. It's a very effective set in general, not just specifically for handling Kyurem-B.
reflecting good . I thinks That Scarf Jirachi can trouble kyurem-B with iron head . or specially defensive Set , he can Paralyse Kyurem -B Wish to have more Staying Power and Finish him with Iron head :
Jirachi @ Leftover
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 236 SpD / 20 Spe
Carefuly Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Iron head
- Wish
- Body Slam
- Protect / U-turn / Stealth Rock
Or the Scarf Version
Jirachi @ Leftover
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 236 SpD / 20 Spe
Carefuly Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Iron head
- Wish
- Body Slam
- Protect / U-turn / Stealth Rock
Or the Scarf Version
Lol We have the same idea But you post Before me ^^
Don't think you need 224. 220 with HP fire hits 290 which beats out neutral 95 base, 216 otherwise.
Could slash Healing Wish next to SR there if you are running SR on something else. This set is very good, probably your best bet vs Kyu-B tbh but just hope they EP instead of HP fire, or they decided to run +speed.
So, the next victim is...
Gengar
60 Hp / 65 Atk / 60 Def / 130 Satk / 75 Spd / 110
Ability: Levitate
Gengar is probably the best spin-blocker for offensive teams and a good mon in general too. Substitute + Disable with Spikes up is really annoying and it can beat most of the spinner with its coverage moves as well (for example Thunder Gengar beats Tentacruel). It can also run a Choice Scarf set to not allow Starmie to spin the entry hazards away and to revenge-kill some threat like Dragonite, Salamence Breloom and so on. Finally, its primary move Shadow Ball and Focus Blast form a really good coverage which is not so easy to play against, especially with hazards up. So how do you guys deal with this ghost?
Gengar
60 Hp / 65 Atk / 60 Def / 130 Satk / 75 Spd / 110
Ability: Levitate
Gengar is probably the best spin-blocker for offensive teams and a good mon in general too. Substitute + Disable with Spikes up is really annoying and it can beat most of the spinner with its coverage moves as well (for example Thunder Gengar beats Tentacruel). It can also run a Choice Scarf set to not allow Starmie to spin the entry hazards away and to revenge-kill some threat like Dragonite, Salamence Breloom and so on. Finally, its primary move Shadow Ball and Focus Blast form a really good coverage which is not so easy to play against, especially with hazards up. So how do you guys deal with this ghost?
Liepard (M) @ BlackGlasses
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Thunder Wave
- Encore
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
I use frequently that. Why? Psychic and ghost trapper very interesting. Starmie? Enter on spin. Encore it and when Starmie is going out pursuit and ohko. Jellicent recover too. Sball gengar too etc.
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Thunder Wave
- Encore
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
I use frequently that. Why? Psychic and ghost trapper very interesting. Starmie? Enter on spin. Encore it and when Starmie is going out pursuit and ohko. Jellicent recover too. Sball gengar too etc.
yeah why not .for me gengar has lot of check like DDnite who can set up on him or volcarona . Scizor with bullet punch can set up on him only if gengar hasn't HP fire and conkeldurr with pay back can be a good check , if gengar has disable conk can lure him with mach punch .
Gengar eating souls Dream Eater
Hypnotizing yo ass you can't run away
Disabling your moves you cant hope to beat him
Too powerful. Too strongth. Too nigga.
Killin' champions like it's his job
Poppin' ladderes like they Youngster Joey
Don't fuck around with him your pokemon will die
He be hacking into gameboys making souls fly.
No I'm not black so I can't rap. But I gave it my shot. But in all seriousness, I generally use this pokemon to deal with Gengar:
Scizor@Choice Band
Trait: Tehnician
252 attack/248 hp/8 speed
Adamant
Bullet Punch
U-Turn
Pursuit
Superpower
None of Gengar's moves can really hurt him with the exception of Focus Blast, but Scizor's Bullet Punch shreds Gengar. You can also Pursuit trap Gengar.
Nothin' can stop him, he's a badass metal bug
Shredding through Gengar like he is paper
Hot on his trail as he flees like Ratattata
He's like a bullet Bullet Punching yo ass
Hypnotizing yo ass you can't run away
Disabling your moves you cant hope to beat him
Too powerful. Too strongth. Too nigga.
Killin' champions like it's his job
Poppin' ladderes like they Youngster Joey
Don't fuck around with him your pokemon will die
He be hacking into gameboys making souls fly.
No I'm not black so I can't rap. But I gave it my shot. But in all seriousness, I generally use this pokemon to deal with Gengar:
Scizor@Choice Band
Trait: Tehnician
252 attack/248 hp/8 speed
Adamant
Bullet Punch
U-Turn
Pursuit
Superpower
None of Gengar's moves can really hurt him with the exception of Focus Blast, but Scizor's Bullet Punch shreds Gengar. You can also Pursuit trap Gengar.
Nothin' can stop him, he's a badass metal bug
Shredding through Gengar like he is paper
Hot on his trail as he flees like Ratattata
He's like a bullet Bullet Punching yo ass
Weavile (M) @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Beat Up
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit
- Ice Punch / Low Kick
130 base SpAtk with Ghost + Fighting coverage, along with things like HP Fire or Thunder make it remarkably hard to wall, so focus on outspeeding it while not getting annihilated by its one attack and take it from there. Why Beat Up? It's for those unsuspecting Substitute Gengar who think they can get that Focus Blast off, only to get rolled. Pursuit nabs those without Sub. Note that Beat Up is also marvelous against Sash Alakazam.
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Beat Up
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit
- Ice Punch / Low Kick
130 base SpAtk with Ghost + Fighting coverage, along with things like HP Fire or Thunder make it remarkably hard to wall, so focus on outspeeding it while not getting annihilated by its one attack and take it from there. Why Beat Up? It's for those unsuspecting Substitute Gengar who think they can get that Focus Blast off, only to get rolled. Pursuit nabs those without Sub. Note that Beat Up is also marvelous against Sash Alakazam.
So, the best counter I can think of to Gengar is SpDef Jirachi
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 216 SDef / 252 HP / 40 Spd
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Iron Head
- Thunder / Body Slam
- Protect / Stealth Rock
Jirachi can easily tank Shadow Ball and just heal back with Wish + Protect. Jirachi can easily break Gengar's substitutes with Iron Head + Thunder, and Thunder also has a 60% chance to paralyse Gengar, crippling it for the rest of the game. I choose to run Careful Nature over Sassy mainly because the ability to out speed Adamant Breloom is pretty nice for Jirachi, and I don't care too much about Thunder's base power being weakened, I just want the para. So Wish is used to support the rest of the team and keep Jirachi around for the majority of the match. Iron Head is STAB and offers a nice 60% flinch rate, which can always come in handy. Thunder / Body Slam are used to paralyse the opponent. I generally like Body Slam more since it paralyses ground types that like to switch into Jirachi (Landorus-T, Garchomp, etc), but since we're trying to counter Gengar, Tthunder is the optimal choice here. Protect is used for 100% recovery with Wish, just in case you really need it, as well as scouting purposes plus Leftovers recovery. Stealth Rock is slashed because it's a nice option on Jirachi.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 216 SDef / 252 HP / 40 Spd
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Iron Head
- Thunder / Body Slam
- Protect / Stealth Rock
Jirachi can easily tank Shadow Ball and just heal back with Wish + Protect. Jirachi can easily break Gengar's substitutes with Iron Head + Thunder, and Thunder also has a 60% chance to paralyse Gengar, crippling it for the rest of the game. I choose to run Careful Nature over Sassy mainly because the ability to out speed Adamant Breloom is pretty nice for Jirachi, and I don't care too much about Thunder's base power being weakened, I just want the para. So Wish is used to support the rest of the team and keep Jirachi around for the majority of the match. Iron Head is STAB and offers a nice 60% flinch rate, which can always come in handy. Thunder / Body Slam are used to paralyse the opponent. I generally like Body Slam more since it paralyses ground types that like to switch into Jirachi (Landorus-T, Garchomp, etc), but since we're trying to counter Gengar, Tthunder is the optimal choice here. Protect is used for 100% recovery with Wish, just in case you really need it, as well as scouting purposes plus Leftovers recovery. Stealth Rock is slashed because it's a nice option on Jirachi.
The problem is, Weavile isn't exactly that great in the current OU metagame. It has a niche, but quite frankly sucks (in my experience). It's a great check to Gaygar, but like Registeel is a great counter to Kyurem-Black, it cannot function well in the metagame. Also, Weavile is destroyed by Scarf sets, which will Focus Blast him to oblivion.
Weavile may not be fantastic, but can still work to a degree with access to trapping, priority and good dual STABs, though obviously its survivability is pretty poor. If Weavile loses to Scarf Focus Blast, Scizor loses to Hidden Power Fire or SubDisable on the switch. Gengar isn't the easiest thing in the world to check, especially when it can do things like Trick or Destiny Bond.
I wouldn't say Weavile is ineffective in this metagame at all, especially when Pursuit trapping is so relevant. It actually makes a great partner for Gengar, since it can Pursuit trap Starmie. A common core used to be Deo-D, Gengar, Weavile, which I think was made popular by Remedy's team from around that time (forget what it was called). That core still works reasonably well with Custap Skarmory, and the three work especially well on hyper offense teams. I wouldn't be so quick to write off Weavile. It might only have one niche (Pursuit + Dragon killer), but that niche is very useful right now, considering the state of the tier.
Remaining on the topic of Weavile, I can confirm it's a really cool a mon in BW2. It can pursuit Jellicent (50/50 though), Starmie, Lati Twins and other kind of mon weak to Dark-type while it can revenge-kill Dragon-types thanks to Ice Shard and it support Custap Skarmory HO as well as Halcyon already said. Don't use Sword Dance because it sucks... really it hasn't enough bulk to use it. Just use it with something which doesn't like the mons Weavile can pursuit (Breloom for example, which really hates Lati Twins) and it will do work. However, go back on the topic of Gengar and its counters and checks please. Thanks you.
Meloetta in general is an amazing counter to Gengar, even without defensive investment it can't get 2HKO'd by Gengar after SR if it's holding Leftovers thanks to its unique combination of Ghost immunity, Focus Blast neutrality, and special bulk surpassing that of Latias. The combination is so incredibly tuned to countering Gengar that any set that has 2 moves that can break Gengar's subs (not hard with base 128 special attack) will work.
Meloetta @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Perish Song
- Psyshock
- Thunder
- U-Turn
If you have rain support, this is basically the most ridiculously safe Gengar counter in the game. If you really don't care for the fact you're losing out on 60% para chance, you can just run thunderbolt if you really want since those will break his subs anyways. Gengar can only 4-5HKO the set with Focus Blast (assuming they all actually hit), so it has no concrete way to stop Meloetta. In return, you can OHKO with Psyshock and 2HKO easily with Thunder. Disable means nothing since you can just switch attacks since both obviously break subs, SubSplit can't do more than wear down Meloetta and get OHKO'd the second Gengar Pain Splits, and rare stuff like Dbond sets can get stuck on having Perish Song kill them.
It stops Gengar dead in its tracks, plain and simple.
So, the next victim is...
Heatran was a boss in DPP and in BW it's still a really good pokèmon. He can run defensive set, set to clean teams once they're weakned (Flame Charge) and can even be a good trapper for Sun teams thanks to Magma Storm. It can also be a solid Stealth Rock setter and a good and underrated Choice Scarf users too. Finally, we should remember that it's probably the best Sun check in the metagame (even if they have always Dugtrio or a mon to bypass Heatran like Earthquake Venusaur and Latios and HP Ground Volcarona but it's still good imo). So what do you guys use to deal with it?
Heatran was a boss in DPP and in BW it's still a really good pokèmon. He can run defensive set, set to clean teams once they're weakned (Flame Charge) and can even be a good trapper for Sun teams thanks to Magma Storm. It can also be a solid Stealth Rock setter and a good and underrated Choice Scarf users too. Finally, we should remember that it's probably the best Sun check in the metagame (even if they have always Dugtrio or a mon to bypass Heatran like Earthquake Venusaur and Latios and HP Ground Volcarona but it's still good imo). So what do you guys use to deal with it?
While I generally think Heatran is a dangerous Pokemon to face, it generally has a few good switch in's without having to resort to something like Blissey. Anyway, my counter is Starmie!
Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 4 SAtk / 224 Spd
Timid Nature
- Psyshock
- Scald
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
So I've chosen defensive Starmie over other bulky water types like Politoed or Gastrodon for two reasons.
Starmie has Natural Cure, preventing Toxic from doingany real harm.
Starmie can Rapid Spin rocks away that Heatran can potentially set up.
Right so, let me explain the moveset and EVs. Psyshock OHKOs Gengar and in general offers nice STAB vs fighting types like Terrakion and Keldeo. Scald is Starmie's other STAB of choice, as it can burn common switch in's like Ferrothorn, crippling then for the rest of the game. Recover allows Starmie to easily stick around for the majority of the match, as well as healing off any damage it may have taken while coming in on SR + resisted attack. Rapid Spin removes hazads from the field and supports the team, allowing Starmie's team mates to switch without any residual damage. The EV spread maxes out Starmie's HP, giving it enough bulk to stick around for an extended period of time. 32 Defense EVs are used to avoid the OHKO from Choice Band Terrakion's Stone Edge and Ferrothorn's Power Whip, meaning that after Ferrothorn is burned not even a critical hit can OHKO Starmie, enabling Starmie to outstall Ferrothorn with ease. The Speed investment allows Starmie to outspeed Timid Gengar and Tornadus, while 4 EVs go to Special Attack in order to always OHKO 4 HP Gengar with Psyshock.
So yeah, there's my nomination.
Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 4 SAtk / 224 Spd
Timid Nature
- Psyshock
- Scald
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
So I've chosen defensive Starmie over other bulky water types like Politoed or Gastrodon for two reasons.
Starmie has Natural Cure, preventing Toxic from doingany real harm.
Starmie can Rapid Spin rocks away that Heatran can potentially set up.
Right so, let me explain the moveset and EVs. Psyshock OHKOs Gengar and in general offers nice STAB vs fighting types like Terrakion and Keldeo. Scald is Starmie's other STAB of choice, as it can burn common switch in's like Ferrothorn, crippling then for the rest of the game. Recover allows Starmie to easily stick around for the majority of the match, as well as healing off any damage it may have taken while coming in on SR + resisted attack. Rapid Spin removes hazads from the field and supports the team, allowing Starmie's team mates to switch without any residual damage. The EV spread maxes out Starmie's HP, giving it enough bulk to stick around for an extended period of time. 32 Defense EVs are used to avoid the OHKO from Choice Band Terrakion's Stone Edge and Ferrothorn's Power Whip, meaning that after Ferrothorn is burned not even a critical hit can OHKO Starmie, enabling Starmie to outstall Ferrothorn with ease. The Speed investment allows Starmie to outspeed Timid Gengar and Tornadus, while 4 EVs go to Special Attack in order to always OHKO 4 HP Gengar with Psyshock.
So yeah, there's my nomination.
Clearly, Spinda is the best counter. But on a more serious note, Cube is probably one of the best counters possible. A standard sub set uses Heatran as set up fodder, and even the Specs Variants rarely use Flash Cannon. Cube also has Earth Power to ko Heatran. With that said, there actually aren't many things that can counter Heatran, but there are numerous checks. Here is a member of most of my trams that can give Tran a hard time.
Keldeo@Choice Scarf
252 speed/252 spatck/4 hp
Modest/Timid
Hydro Pump
Surf
Secret Sword
Hp Ice
3 of its 4 moves fuck up Tran up real bad. While it doesn't like toxic or hp grass, it can still switch in most of the time. Do I really need to elaborate on Keldeo's viability in the metagame? (Hint hint- Keldeo is actually being suspected!) Anyway, there Are a bunch of checks to HeAtran: any moderately powerful grond type- Dugtrio, Lando- T, Gliscor, Chomp, Mamoswine, etc. Any moderately powerful water type- Politoed, Keldeo, Magic Coat Jellicent (btw its awesome) Any moderately powerful Fighting type- Terrakion, Lucario, etc.
Buy Starmie is probably the best counter to Heatran.
Keldeo isn't a brilliant counter tbh because Heatran can still hurts it with its STAB fire / other coverage moves and can Toxic it if it's running a Defensive set. Then it can use Protect and switch to a counter (Jellicent for example) and you're not in a good position. It's still a really good check obv, but I think that any Water-type (except Starmie which can heal itself from annoying status thanks to Natural Cure) isn't a perfect counter due to Toxic Heatran which is quite common. Dugtrio is another fantastic offensive answer... and in general any mon with a strong fight / ground move is good answer (think about Terrakion, Mamoswine, Landorus-T, they're all good offensive checks). Finally, you can use even Heatran to check another Heatran, just use it with Air Ballon and Earth Power and you'll probably have the best answer available.
unless it's that mediocre Sunny Day w/ Magma Storm and Solarbeam set, Politoed pretty much fucks Heatran over and then some. Even if Heatran does get through Politoed with Toxic, the incoming rain will weaken Heatran's Fire STAB and make it easier for other opposing teammates like Latias to set up on weakened fire attacks.