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Ubers CCAT: Stage 3 - Teammates
- Thread starter Furai
- Start date
- Status
Flame charge reshiram?
It easily has the power too muscle its way through the ubers teir, but unfortunately with kyogre being so prevalant, I feel, its hard for it too shine, the only thing we need is for drizzle too be gone, which is pretty easy considering we can use wobb too trap and eliminate scarf/specs kyogre.
teammates arent even that hard, all it needs is groudon and some rocks/spin support.
My other suggestion would be Swords dance Dragon arceus, I havent seen one yet but I think it would be cool to build a team around it because its often overlooked in favour of rayquaza.
It easily has the power too muscle its way through the ubers teir, but unfortunately with kyogre being so prevalant, I feel, its hard for it too shine, the only thing we need is for drizzle too be gone, which is pretty easy considering we can use wobb too trap and eliminate scarf/specs kyogre.
teammates arent even that hard, all it needs is groudon and some rocks/spin support.
My other suggestion would be Swords dance Dragon arceus, I havent seen one yet but I think it would be cool to build a team around it because its often overlooked in favour of rayquaza.
Reshiram's troubles don't just come with Kyogre, its also owned by Chansey. Reshiram is honestly quite underwhelming despite its perfect coverage, considering that its defense is meh-ish for uber standards(which translates into: get raped by EKArceus)
SD dragon Arceus might work but Rayquaza is imo much better for its better offenses over Arceus's superior speed.
Dragon Arceus could however work as an excellent revenge killer to Ray though. Too bad it can't equip a Scarf...
I thought that was the point of this whole thread? how often do you see rehiram sweep? or SD dragon arceus? Or the previous winner Deoxys?
If we were going with the best team we'd just throw kyogre, ferrothorn and 4 other mons together and call it a day.
this is from the first post
"The point of CCAT is to create a team that is both competitive, and both innovative. Bringing something rather fresh into the metagame, that is not used much."
Swords dance dragon arceus isnt used much BECAUSE people use swords dance ray, and reshiram isnt used much because of kyogre et al. this is why we are building a team around it.
Apologies if I;m wrong or if I sounded harsh (I wasnt having a go at you, that was never my intention) I was merely pointing out the purpose of this thread.
The reason behind reshiram was that recently rain has been dominating, See octobers usage stats, and offensive sun teams have really fallen. I know locoghoul did a sun team with the emphasis on a deoxys A sweep, so why not focus on reshiram, its the figurehead from pokemon Black and it deserves a chance too be recognised for what it can do.
That being said, Dragon arceus is fine, it can cause massive damge and is often overlooked. Its up to you, i say pick whichever you feel has the best chance of succeeding, if anyone else wants too chime in it would be most appreciated.
That being said, Dragon arceus is fine, it can cause massive damge and is often overlooked. Its up to you, i say pick whichever you feel has the best chance of succeeding, if anyone else wants too chime in it would be most appreciated.
Okay, *pulls out list*
Fast paced sweepers:
-Extremekiller
-Mewtwo
-*insert type here* CM Arceus
-Rayquaza
-SD Dragon Arceus
-Other SD Arceuses
-Garchomp
-RP (SD) Groudon
-CM + 3 attacks Kyogre
-Darkrai
-DD Mence
-Double Dance Terrakion
-Lucario
-Blaziken
-Cloyster
-Flame Charge Reshiram
-Flame Charge Ho-Oh
-Thundurus (Can even use Volt Switch!)
-Excadrill
-Kingdra
-Kabutops
-Ludicolo
-Venusaur
-Shiftry
-Celebi
-TG Manaphy (Don't use this shit, please, I'm only listing it because it's there)
Bulkier sweepers:
-*insert type here* CM Arceus
-Bulky RP/SD Groudon
-CM RestTalk Kyogre
-CM Manaphy
-Bulk Up RestTalk Dialga
-Sub Hone Claws Zekrom
-Sub/CM Giratina-O
-CM RestTalk Giratina/Giratina-O
-CM Latias
There are plenty more out there.
The main advantage of dragon arceus is that it packs more power than DD rayquaza and to revenge it you NEED a scarf dragon; that means easy pickings for wobbuffet, who is also a good deo-a partner.
LOL shrang
Lucario, Blaziken and SD Dragceus caught my eye. I don't really like the weather-dependant sweepers because I want Deoxys-A to work outside of weather too, and in that case I'm aiming for a weatherless sweeper as well. Of course, we could make plenty of versions and maybe even combine them all!
Lucario, Blaziken and SD Dragceus caught my eye. I don't really like the weather-dependant sweepers because I want Deoxys-A to work outside of weather too, and in that case I'm aiming for a weatherless sweeper as well. Of course, we could make plenty of versions and maybe even combine them all!
We ideally want something that doesn't care about most Scarfers.
Some sort of SD/CM Arceus would be good as long as its not Dragon, because Dragceus becomes automatically vulnerable to all the Scarf Dragons.
CM GHostceus sounds appealing since its only real counters are Bliss/Darkrai (which Deoxys-A can Superpower), it checks the Giratina formes, it spinblocks (assuming we're still using Forry), and it doesn't care about any scarfer aside from Kyogre.
Some sort of SD/CM Arceus would be good as long as its not Dragon, because Dragceus becomes automatically vulnerable to all the Scarf Dragons.
CM GHostceus sounds appealing since its only real counters are Bliss/Darkrai (which Deoxys-A can Superpower), it checks the Giratina formes, it spinblocks (assuming we're still using Forry), and it doesn't care about any scarfer aside from Kyogre.
We've already picked a Ghostceus variant to combat Giratina-O and other priority users. Before we decide to choose a separate variant, I'd advise that we wiegh out the fact that trying to make Arceus offensive will only reduce its ability to beat EKiller Arceus. From the list, I really liked BU Dialga and CM Ogre but maybe thats me against 2 extremely frail mons
Alright guys, I decided that for our sweeper we will also have a poll. I'm going to give you about 24 hours, if I see that not much has been submitted I'll give you another 24 hours, but that's gonna be it.
Out of shrang's list, pick 3 sweepers that you'd like to see. Sort them out in this order:
1st place: This will give 3 points to the Pokemon you picked.
2nd place: This will give 2 points to the Pokemon you picked.
3rd place: This will give 1 point to the Pokemon you picked.
Happy voting!
Out of shrang's list, pick 3 sweepers that you'd like to see. Sort them out in this order:
1st place: This will give 3 points to the Pokemon you picked.
2nd place: This will give 2 points to the Pokemon you picked.
3rd place: This will give 1 point to the Pokemon you picked.
Happy voting!
WAIT! I thought we were using arceus as a ghost form (to spin block and wall a bit) so wouldn't that mean that like 1/2 of Shrang's list is ineffective, and our votes are too?
I'm going to postpone my vote for this until later notice...
BUT YES WE FINALLY HAVE SOME ORGANIZATION :D.
Also I reccomend that after this we vote for something that actually lays down hazards for our piece of mutated DNA, since that is much more nesscary IMO then a sweeper... since we can't even decide on Forry for that job...
*pulls out list lol (list is hidden)
I'm going to postpone my vote for this until later notice...
BUT YES WE FINALLY HAVE SOME ORGANIZATION :D.
Also I reccomend that after this we vote for something that actually lays down hazards for our piece of mutated DNA, since that is much more nesscary IMO then a sweeper... since we can't even decide on Forry for that job...
*pulls out list lol (list is hidden)
Forretress provides its arsenal of support moves; spikes, toxic spikes, stealth rock, rapid spin, and is overall great general utility.
Skarmory allows us to effectively deal with Extremekiller Arceus and other Arceus forms that utilize swords dance, its great bulk enables him to act as a great Physically Defensive tank and it very effectively sets up spike or stealth rock courtesy of its typing and reliable recovery in the form of roost.
Ferrothorn is a over all great annoyance to many Uber teams that Utilize rain. It easily spreads out spikes or Stealth rock and can use leech seed to slowly recover its health. Its fantastic typing combined with its astounding bulk allows it to live for a very long time during matches.
Dialga is perhaps the only Stealth Rock user aside an Arceus form that boasts access to an astounding Special Attack stat without much investment. It's fantastic Steel-Dragon typing ensures that Stealth Rocks will come up. It can utilize its enormous support movepool in conjunction with its base 150 Special Attack stat to effectively weaken our enemies.
Groudon is a reliable Physical Wall and provides Drought for the team which enables us to run Sunny Offense if we chose to do so. It can also bluff a defensive set while still running hazards to help break down some walls that Deoxys-a may be annoyed of.
An Arceus Form- If I listed every Arceus form that could support Stealth Rock then I would be deeming myself a person without a life o.o. Well anyways Arceus's great 120/120/120 defensive stats enable it to be incredibly bulky on both sides absorbing blows from all kinds of attacks that lack a Band or Specs Boost. Thanks to its ability to switch types, Arceus has the ability to be a mixed wall, spin blocker, specs ogre switch in, Mewtwo counter, anti-lead, lead, and probably has much more unknown uses (one of which is clearly trolling). Its unpredictability will often lead to setting up stealth rocks however before deeming this as the best Stealth Rock user (which it probably is) and instantaneously deeming it worthy for our team one must take into consideration that WE CAN ONLY USE ONE ARCEUS FORM. IN OTHER WORDS WE CAN'T HAVE EXTREMEKILLER.
Tentacruel is the only spinner that gets rain dish decent special bulk (80/120), knock off, and Toxic Spikes. While it may serve more to serve a defensive team then a offensive one it should not be ignored as an option. It's toxic spikes and rapid spin enable it to assist in wearing down the enemies team which enables our sweepers to have a party.
Skarmory allows us to effectively deal with Extremekiller Arceus and other Arceus forms that utilize swords dance, its great bulk enables him to act as a great Physically Defensive tank and it very effectively sets up spike or stealth rock courtesy of its typing and reliable recovery in the form of roost.
Ferrothorn is a over all great annoyance to many Uber teams that Utilize rain. It easily spreads out spikes or Stealth rock and can use leech seed to slowly recover its health. Its fantastic typing combined with its astounding bulk allows it to live for a very long time during matches.
Dialga is perhaps the only Stealth Rock user aside an Arceus form that boasts access to an astounding Special Attack stat without much investment. It's fantastic Steel-Dragon typing ensures that Stealth Rocks will come up. It can utilize its enormous support movepool in conjunction with its base 150 Special Attack stat to effectively weaken our enemies.
Groudon is a reliable Physical Wall and provides Drought for the team which enables us to run Sunny Offense if we chose to do so. It can also bluff a defensive set while still running hazards to help break down some walls that Deoxys-a may be annoyed of.
An Arceus Form- If I listed every Arceus form that could support Stealth Rock then I would be deeming myself a person without a life o.o. Well anyways Arceus's great 120/120/120 defensive stats enable it to be incredibly bulky on both sides absorbing blows from all kinds of attacks that lack a Band or Specs Boost. Thanks to its ability to switch types, Arceus has the ability to be a mixed wall, spin blocker, specs ogre switch in, Mewtwo counter, anti-lead, lead, and probably has much more unknown uses (one of which is clearly trolling). Its unpredictability will often lead to setting up stealth rocks however before deeming this as the best Stealth Rock user (which it probably is) and instantaneously deeming it worthy for our team one must take into consideration that WE CAN ONLY USE ONE ARCEUS FORM. IN OTHER WORDS WE CAN'T HAVE EXTREMEKILLER.
Tentacruel is the only spinner that gets rain dish decent special bulk (80/120), knock off, and Toxic Spikes. While it may serve more to serve a defensive team then a offensive one it should not be ignored as an option. It's toxic spikes and rapid spin enable it to assist in wearing down the enemies team which enables our sweepers to have a party.
Not at all, Deoxys-A is our wallbreaker.
and @Mr.lol:
To be honest, we currently have only Deoxys-A. You shall not worry about the Teammates that were offered, we will get to them after we pick our sweeper.
I am terrible sorry if this confused you guys, I'm very aware that I got the CCAT a bit off-track, but don't worry I'm sure that the team would be awesome and that we'll get over it ;)
1. SD Dragon Arceus
This thing has impress me with its performance during my ladder runs and I want to spread the word xD. I'm pretty sure once it sets up the only two counters are Lugia and Skarmory or a faster support Arceus. I end a lot of games with this thing just flat out stomping the other team once Palkia has switched into Kyogre Water Spout w/ Rocks + a layer of Spikes. From there +2 Extremespeed and Outrage can clean up the rest.
2. Double Dance Terrakion
Underrated, but it packs so much power if used right. It's in a good speed tier and resists the most common form of priority Extremespeed. It'll also outpace the standard Extremekiller and guarantee kill with CC should that happen. Finding a poke like Dialga (also sets rocks!) that deals with Giratina-A/-O shouldn't be hard.
3. Flame Charge Reshiram
If we're packing this then I assume we'll be using Groudon as well. Chansey is dealt with Deoxys-A well and Reshiram draws out Kyogre like a moth to a flame to be hit with Draco Meteor. Flame Charge OHKOs Forretress and Ferrothorn in the sun and from there its usually a clean sweep.
This thing has impress me with its performance during my ladder runs and I want to spread the word xD. I'm pretty sure once it sets up the only two counters are Lugia and Skarmory or a faster support Arceus. I end a lot of games with this thing just flat out stomping the other team once Palkia has switched into Kyogre Water Spout w/ Rocks + a layer of Spikes. From there +2 Extremespeed and Outrage can clean up the rest.
2. Double Dance Terrakion
Underrated, but it packs so much power if used right. It's in a good speed tier and resists the most common form of priority Extremespeed. It'll also outpace the standard Extremekiller and guarantee kill with CC should that happen. Finding a poke like Dialga (also sets rocks!) that deals with Giratina-A/-O shouldn't be hard.
3. Flame Charge Reshiram
If we're packing this then I assume we'll be using Groudon as well. Chansey is dealt with Deoxys-A well and Reshiram draws out Kyogre like a moth to a flame to be hit with Draco Meteor. Flame Charge OHKOs Forretress and Ferrothorn in the sun and from there its usually a clean sweep.
1. SubClaws Zekrom
2. Double Dance Groudon
3. Mewtwo
EDIT: DAMN MY EYES!
2. Double Dance Groudon
3. Mewtwo
EDIT: DAMN MY EYES!
1. LO KINGDRA- THIS GUY IS SO UNDERRATED. He freaking beats hyper offense teams lacking Ray and his only true enemies in the rain are Ferrothorn and the pink blobs. Since Deoxys-a pulverizes them with Superpower it becomes an excellent team mate. Also cannot be revenged from the most popular revenge killer scarfkia, so over all awesome :D.
2. CM Ghostceus- Fills our need for a spin blocker while benefiting from Deo-a's removal of Blissey and Chansey. Oh yeah ITS ALSO HELL FOR STALL TEAMS (just look at drown all o.o). Assists Deo-a by removing Giratina and Lugia who he ironically fails to 2HKO lol. Extremely difficult to revenge kill due to its growing defense stat.
3. Double Dance Terrakion- AFTER SEEING SYRIM + OTHERS OWN ME WITH IT OVER 10,000 times and experiencing its wrath I feel it shouldn't be ignored. The fact it can bluff scarf to force a switch on Ekiller and effectively sweep is enough IMO to set himself apart from the competition.
THANK YOU FURAI FOR CLEARING MY HEAD OF CONFUSION :D.
@ Waterwarrior
2. CM Ghostceus- Fills our need for a spin blocker while benefiting from Deo-a's removal of Blissey and Chansey. Oh yeah ITS ALSO HELL FOR STALL TEAMS (just look at drown all o.o). Assists Deo-a by removing Giratina and Lugia who he ironically fails to 2HKO lol. Extremely difficult to revenge kill due to its growing defense stat.
3. Double Dance Terrakion- AFTER SEEING SYRIM + OTHERS OWN ME WITH IT OVER 10,000 times and experiencing its wrath I feel it shouldn't be ignored. The fact it can bluff scarf to force a switch on Ekiller and effectively sweep is enough IMO to set himself apart from the competition.
THANK YOU FURAI FOR CLEARING MY HEAD OF CONFUSION :D.
@ Waterwarrior
It's under bulky sweepers o.o.
urghh don't pick stuff just to be different or want to try something 'out of the box'; i support using esoteric sets, provided they are actually fit for the team.
also furai told me to post here about how i think eleceus > iceus, so here goes:
iceus' only boon is that it has a stronger stab ice attack, but apart from that it suffers from an sr weak, only 1 resistance, a plethora of common weaknesses, and the requirement of abomasnow to use its stronger attack (blizzard).
eleceus only has one weakness, most commonly seen in groudon / rayquaza, both of whom are outsped and ohko'd at + 1 (252/0 groudon takes 79.2% - 93.6%, so a bit of residual is required, but it doesn't ohko with 4 attack eq anyway).
garchomp, excadrill, groundceus are all quite rare, they do, however, beat eleceus (exca needs LO and sand up, groundceus needs to win the speed tie once, scarfchomp only deals 74% - 87.1% to 4/0 arceus with EQ).
Ekiller with eq is a good check, however, but with rain support risks taking massive damage from thunder, and paralysis.
Darkrai is probably the best check, outspeeding and dark void hitting 80% of the time, but this is a common CM arceus check anyway.
with rain support cm eleceus' + 1 thunders are immensely powerful, achieving almost perfect boltbeam coverage as well, with only the practically non-existent rotom-h, rotom-f, lanturn, shedinja and magneton/zone resisting it.
so yeah, eleceus > iceus unless you're running dedicated hail in ubers.
ferrothorn is a pain for both of them though.
1. Ekiller arceus, deo-a's set can beat its most common checks and counters (although it IS outsped by scarf terrakion), at any rate lugia is destroyed by thunder (which it can't roost stall) and giratina takes 80% ish from psycho boost, paving the way for ekiller to sweep later in the game.
2. Darkrai, covers all CM arceus that set up on -2 deo-a and is a fantastic wallbreaking partner, use the sub / pulse / fblast / dvoid set.
3. DD Rayquaza with overheat, breaks down the common stall set up if it can lure ferro/skarm into taking overheat, then just outrages until it dies; make sure you don't do anything if scarfpalkia is still alive, however. DDQuaza + Deo-a can make a win condition all by themselves, since a team cannot continually stand up to their assault assuming the player isn't stupid.
also furai told me to post here about how i think eleceus > iceus, so here goes:
iceus' only boon is that it has a stronger stab ice attack, but apart from that it suffers from an sr weak, only 1 resistance, a plethora of common weaknesses, and the requirement of abomasnow to use its stronger attack (blizzard).
eleceus only has one weakness, most commonly seen in groudon / rayquaza, both of whom are outsped and ohko'd at + 1 (252/0 groudon takes 79.2% - 93.6%, so a bit of residual is required, but it doesn't ohko with 4 attack eq anyway).
garchomp, excadrill, groundceus are all quite rare, they do, however, beat eleceus (exca needs LO and sand up, groundceus needs to win the speed tie once, scarfchomp only deals 74% - 87.1% to 4/0 arceus with EQ).
Ekiller with eq is a good check, however, but with rain support risks taking massive damage from thunder, and paralysis.
Darkrai is probably the best check, outspeeding and dark void hitting 80% of the time, but this is a common CM arceus check anyway.
with rain support cm eleceus' + 1 thunders are immensely powerful, achieving almost perfect boltbeam coverage as well, with only the practically non-existent rotom-h, rotom-f, lanturn, shedinja and magneton/zone resisting it.
so yeah, eleceus > iceus unless you're running dedicated hail in ubers.
ferrothorn is a pain for both of them though.
1. Ekiller arceus, deo-a's set can beat its most common checks and counters (although it IS outsped by scarf terrakion), at any rate lugia is destroyed by thunder (which it can't roost stall) and giratina takes 80% ish from psycho boost, paving the way for ekiller to sweep later in the game.
2. Darkrai, covers all CM arceus that set up on -2 deo-a and is a fantastic wallbreaking partner, use the sub / pulse / fblast / dvoid set.
3. DD Rayquaza with overheat, breaks down the common stall set up if it can lure ferro/skarm into taking overheat, then just outrages until it dies; make sure you don't do anything if scarfpalkia is still alive, however. DDQuaza + Deo-a can make a win condition all by themselves, since a team cannot continually stand up to their assault assuming the player isn't stupid.
1 SD DragonArceus
2 FC Reshiram
3 Darkrai
2 FC Reshiram
3 Darkrai
- Status