Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[Magcargo]

I just want to give Zoroark-H some credit, I think when it was first released people were making fun of it saying its just Zoroark but it's typing makes a world of difference, there a lot of Dark types in the tier as well as Rapid Spinners, this is where it comes in. Tusk wanting to spin realizes its Zoroark and gets 2HKO'd by Hyper Voice. Another situation is any time you pair Zoro with Roaring Moon or Kingambit and the opposing side will use a fighting move, Mach Punch from Breloom, Close Combat from Quaq, HJK from Cinderace, CC / Body Press from Great Tusk, it all gets 2HKO'd from the most part so it's a very game swinging Pokémon. I feel like I just have to give Zoro their flowers because super underrated mon and you have to predict right to really catch it and make it useless.


Zoroark-Hisui @ Focus Sash
Ability: Illusion
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Grass Knot
- Flamethrower

My personal favorite set but Choice Specs Trick is more gutsy and probably more bang for your buck but I like leaning behind a Focus Sash if I can.

Yeah, this mon is the king of creating 50/50s which is scary to go up against. In say, an MU like Dragapult vs Hatterene, you can't go for the safe Shadow Ball / Phantom Force play because it could be Zoroark that takes no damage and goobs you with a Shadow Ball while having its Sash still in tact. You can't go for Dragon STAB either since it could just be Hatterene and you lose a ton of health while being forced out due to being locked into Draco Meteor. Heck, even U-Turning is risky because Zoroark could be a random Scarf and take you out despite making the "safe" play.

This mon's main downfall is that its so frail so any misplay or failed prediction will leave you playing 5-6.

Also why Tera-Normal? I don't think it does anything on this set when you aren't running Normal STAB.

 

[awyp]

Yeah, this mon is the king of creating 50/50s which is scary to go up against. In say, an MU like Dragapult vs Hatterene, you can't go for the safe Shadow Ball / Phantom Force play because it could be Zoroark that takes no damage and goobs you with a Shadow Ball while having its Sash still in tact. You can't go for Dragon STAB either since it could just be Hatterene and you lose a ton of health while being forced out due to being locked into Draco Meteor. Heck, even U-Turning is risky because Zoroark could be a random Scarf and take you out despite making the "safe" play.

This mon's main downfall is that its so frail so any misplay or failed prediction will leave you playing 5-6.

Also why Tera-Normal? I don't think it does anything on this set when you aren't running Normal STAB.

Forget the tera, I personally would run Tera Ghost for this specific set (error on my end) and also great point with the Shadow Ball issues from Pult.

 

[tigers jaw]

i think gholdengo is something worthy of receiving some attention & discussion.

in a metagame already limited in forms of hazard removal, thanks to the defog cut, gholdengo mandates you to run either hazard stack of your own, removal that beats gholdengo, or both. this leaves us with even less options in the hazards game, that being basically using great tusk on most teams. spikes also has increased in availability in this generation, which alongside gholdengo, has increased their prominence.

furthermore, gholdengo has a great offensive and defensive profile. it's typing and bulk, along with recover, allow it to check many relevant pokemon, giving it many opportunities to take its turn. 133spa, nasty plot, great stab attacks, perfect coverage, and strong utility options make it very hard to check. it has plentiful means by which to bypass any would-be checks and counters, an attribute that is only bolstered by (lol) tera. not only this, gholdengo has a nice speed stat for a pokemon such as it is.

i don't know, i just want to hear what other people think on the matter.

 

[1LDK]

i really just don't see how balance and bo are at all even remotely close to where hyper offense is in the meta rn. the unaware mons are good and all but they are barely able to keep up with how just absolutely ridiculously strong the majority of offense pokemon are in this meta. valiant, moon, wake, dnite, volc, etc. all are insanely strong and can often still muscle past the unaware mons depending on the set, especially given that they all have to deal with so many different mons and the nerf to recovery making their longevity throughout the match quite questionable. the majority of the time on defense you have to blow your own tera, and that can easily ruin your team's defensive profile since you no longer resist a different, extremely powerful hyper offense mon on your opponent's team.

stall still has tools, i never said it didn't, but the tools (such as infestation pex) they have i really don't think are worth the downside of instalosing into so many matchups. stall's really damn close to being effectively a gimmick similar to trick room or tailwind.

i don't get how you can say gen 8 was monotonous, especially late into the gen. in home and dlc1, sure, but around this time last year the meta was as i recall it quite fun, given that bulky offense and balance were the two best styles. there were tons of ways to beat every style all around, and even regen spam had its downsides.

at the very least, when i played gen 8, i knew that the majority of the time when i loaded into a ladder game, i wouldn't load into a matchup that is either an instant win for myself or an instant win for my opponent. i can't say that for gen 9.

I do play gen 8 and I have been from a few months, and its boring, every match is just knock off, toxic, scald spam with clefables, lando t u-turns, pex just being actually unkillable, and those are from the defensive side, the offense are also the same mons, Weavile, Rillaboom, Melmetal, the tapus and the Ultrabeast, I dont see anything else and to me, theres no creativity on offense and no way to outmanuver defense withouth suffering major mental trauma

And, this is only a personal thing, the amount of times I have been against stall, and about to finally stallbreak, but something happens downstairs and I have to forfiet to go and check wtf because they need my help is more than I can count lmao

Back to gen 9, from the pool of offensive mons you mentioned, moon and Dnite lose to Dondozo and Skeleridge, Valiant is set dependant and the rest can be handled by clodsire

Like I said, Stall HAS BEEN DOWNGRADED, that's a fact and the truth, but is in no way a gimmick, I have lost to it, I have used it, I have see people use it, its legit (man, me defending stall, what a day)

i think gholdengo is something worthy of receiving some attention & discussion.

Gholdengo is the new gen 4 Jirachi, which means
"FUCK, JUST DIE, JUST DIE YOU WORTHLESS SACK OF METAL SHIT JUST LET ME HAVE MY FUN YOU FUCKING SCUM OF THE EARTH CHILD KICKER BAMBI'S MOTHER KILLER STINKY FURRY LOVER, TINKATON SIMP, GARDEVOIR LEWD ARTIST, NFT SCAMMER, MOVIE SPOILER, PINEAPPLE ON PIZZA EATER, LEAGUE OF LEYENDS PLAYER, CUTIES DEFENDER. JUST GET AWAY FROM ME YOU MONSTER" - Corviknight each time it has to face Gholdengo

He single-handedly monopolizes the hazard game to the point where its the main star on both Stall and HO, for its ability to block so much of the metagame, I have said this once, and I will say it again, we have more than enough Gholdengo checks and counters, what we don't have and what makes Gholdengo a problem, are counters that can remove hazards. And depending on the ratio of Hazard mons against new hazard remover we get at HOME, we might need to ban Gholdengo just to buff Corviknight

 

[TCTphantom]

Wake wasn’t banned, I’m good with that. Tbh outside of maybe Volcarona nothing imo is worth acting on pre Home. Meta is in a pretty fun spot right now. Variety of flavors for offense are useable, fat teams have a solid spot in the meta too. There also is way more room to go off meta than in Gen VIII, but tbf Gen VIII OU was my least favorite OU meta by far.

 

[Magcargo]

i think gholdengo is something worthy of receiving some attention & discussion.

in a metagame already limited in forms of hazard removal, thanks to the defog cut, gholdengo mandates you to run either hazard stack of your own, removal that beats gholdengo, or both. this leaves us with even less options in the hazards game, that being basically using great tusk on most teams. spikes also has increased in availability in this generation, which alongside gholdengo, has increased their prominence.

furthermore, gholdengo has a great offensive and defensive profile. it's typing and bulk, along with recover, allow it to check many relevant pokemon, giving it many opportunities to take its turn. 133spa, nasty plot, great stab attacks, perfect coverage, and strong utility options make it very hard to check. it has plentiful means by which to bypass any would-be checks and counters, an attribute that is only bolstered by (lol) tera. not only this, gholdengo has a nice speed stat for a pokemon such as it is.

i don't know, i just want to hear what other people think on the matter.

IDK, my thoughts on Gholdengo kinda vary because it is a somewhat MU based Pokemon. Against offensive teams, I think its Scarf set goes ham, but bulky NP sets will somewhat struggle, while its somewhat the opposite against bulkier teams (though Trick do be kinda scary).

Regardless, while it is an important player in the hazards game IDK if its influence is all that encompassing. What I've noticed when playing is that a lot of teams that run hazards just... don't run Gholdengo for some reason. I'm guessing because its weaknesses overlap with some other Pokemon like Corviknight, Iron Moth, and Kingambit, but regardless, this means that Corviknight will be getting the job of defogging done, though it'll have to carefully pick its spots to do so. The most common hazard core I've seen with Gholdengo is the Glimmora + Gholdengo core, which is pretty strong from my experience, but normally the Gholdengo used on this style is an offensive variant that can struggle to last long. Gholdengo's wide-utility and range of Pokemon it counters ironically can bite it in the ass here since it can be worn down quickly by the many Pokemon that it will be used as a switch-in to, letting Corviknight still get the Defog off a bit later. Bulky NP sets are the scariest to face I think, but there are bulky Pokemon like Kingambit, Garganacl, and Clodsire that can keep that set in check. In general though, I do think that hazards are quite limiting in this meta and I normally have to dedicate two teamslots to hazard control (usually Great Tusk + Corviknight) if I want to actually get them removed. It isn't just Gholdengo, Glimmora + T-Spikes can be very difficult to play around if you don't have a Poison-type, esp since it owns Hat and Tusk depending on which move it runs, Clodsire can usually repeated set hazards up and is difficult to take out, Garganacl is Garganacl, Garchomp is difficult to repel hazards from since its strong and threatens Hat / Corv / Tusk w/ its strong EQ or Draco / Fire Blast and Rough Skin chip, etc. etc.

I do play gen 8 and I have been from a few months, and its boring, every match is just knock off, toxic, scald spam with clefables, lando t u-turns, pex just being actually unkillable, and those are from the defensive side, the offense are also the same mons, Weavile, Rillaboom, Melmetal, the tapus and the Ultrabeast, I dont see anything else and to me, theres no creativity on offense and no way to outmanuver defense withouth suffering major mental trauma

And, this is only a personal thing, the amount of times I have been against stall, and about to finally stallbreak, but something happens downstairs and I have to forfiet to go and check wtf because they need my help is more than I can count lmao

Last generation, I had a 100% lose rate against stall teams. This generation, I have a 99% lose rate against them, only because I ran CM Stored Power Hatterene once and the other guy let me set up to +6 / +6 since they didn't know what the set did. 100% a skill issue, but learning to play against these teams feels way harder than Rain / Sun teams (other styles I struggled with a lot) since the win-condition against those feels like its more clear (stall out weather turns, use priority, use chip from Rocky or Hazards, etc.). Setting up hazards doesn't necessarily work because or Regen + Boots, Knocking off their items doesn't necessarily work either because you need a lot of hazards to actually deal chip + they now have a Knock absorber now, switching endlessly yourself doesn't work because their Pokemon have regenerator while yours don't etc. Heck, even supposed anti-stall sets I've ran like Sub Hydreigon failed pretty hard because these teams have a lot of outs vs stuff like that.

 

[Mikegengsta]

I've been enjoying the meta quite a bit. The abundance of new mons feels fresh, especially since I like most of the new gen 9 mons even outside their competitive viability. The limited pool sucks for sure, but the meta changes every week so I feel that it remains fun to play. It also has many viable strategies although facing Shed tail is annoying.

This ^ I want shed tail gone

 

[kosecant]

I can't say I "once did", as it was just a younger me enjoying battles with random crap. Back when it was a lot more of people screwing around and less on "unga bunga biggest thing go brr". I wish I could have those things again, but with Little Timmies and their Ubers in-game, IRCs being dead, and Showdown being pretty much tryhard central due to it being a Ranked system, it doesn't seem like I'll be getting that again.

Yeah, I'll still keep experimenting with stuff, but no community really is fit for me. Or... Me fit for them, whichever is the correct one. Smog is mostly too tryhard-y because of ranking and clout, VGC isn't my scene anymore (I had a hell of a lot of fun running TR Sand in Gen 6), Stunfisk is like... The little brother to the Smog forums, and if you even DARE mention Smog's name in any other Pokemon SubReddit, you get jumped on.

Thanks for your kind words, guys. It helps a little bit, but I sincerely doubt I'll ever fit in anywhere. I was even in pokemonisfun's UU Discord for a bit, but had to leave due to being jumped on after a couple of people got toxically heated with one another and I called in a mod to get them to cool it. Even in there I was getting dumped on for wanting to play around with fun shenanigans like Loaded Dice MoxieCross. (Otherwise known at Mega Hera Copium by some.)

I’mma be real, some of your opinions can be a bit wack but over all you’re fine. From my point of view it’s that you word your posts pretty strongly which usually invokes stronger reactions (and this happens to everyone, I’ve been clowned on before because I’ve worded something like that lmao). I’ve had no desire to mute you unlike some other “fun” posters in this thread, which I think says something.

if leaving will make your mental health better, then do so but you’re a fine member of the community and have even made some posts I think are great :)

 

[viivian]

Last generation, I had a 100% lose rate against stall teams. This generation, I have a 99% lose rate against them, only because I ran CM Stored Power Hatterene once and the other guy let me set up to +6 / +6 since they didn't know what the set did.

this? i got this replay from the stall discord the other day and i noticed some similarities between what you described and the replay i just linked

back to the topic at hand, however, i've had an easier time against stall than most other playstyles simply due to how easy it is to take advantage of. semi-stall builds can be tough to take down when you pair a strong offensive sweeper with a tough defensive core but most hard stall teams are rather easy to break past with good enough offensive synergy and intelligent play. it's offense and hyper offense that's most difficult to deal with for me, having to sack one pokemon to bring in a revenge killer and repeating that process multiple times per game is always very suffocating and stressful to have to deal with, weather teams being a perfect example of this. that's just me, however.

EDIT: added some more thoughts of mine since i don't want this to be a pointless one-liner

 

[Baloor]

i think gholdengo is something worthy of receiving some attention & discussion.

in a metagame already limited in forms of hazard removal, thanks to the defog cut, gholdengo mandates you to run either hazard stack of your own, removal that beats gholdengo, or both. this leaves us with even less options in the hazards game, that being basically using great tusk on most teams. spikes also has increased in availability in this generation, which alongside gholdengo, has increased their prominence.

furthermore, gholdengo has a great offensive and defensive profile. it's typing and bulk, along with recover, allow it to check many relevant pokemon, giving it many opportunities to take its turn. 133spa, nasty plot, great stab attacks, perfect coverage, and strong utility options make it very hard to check. it has plentiful means by which to bypass any would-be checks and counters, an attribute that is only bolstered by (lol) tera. not only this, gholdengo has a nice speed stat for a pokemon such as it is.

i don't know, i just want to hear what other people think on the matter.

going to make a quick post to this but def wanted to respond to this

in the past i've been on record saying that gholdengo is a very unhealthy presence for the metagame, and while i still stand by this there is a serious domino effect that this ban would currently have on the current metagame which is mostly in part of the lack of steels we currently have. at the moment, the (viable) steels we have that are not gholdengo are; kingambit, corviknight, iron treads and to a lesser extent due to them being kinda niche, scizor and tinkaton. considering Kingambit is also arguably broken, we would have a metagame that consistents of 2 viable steels and 2 situational steels. this is an incredibly low amount. with the importance steels have in builder and balancing a metagame defensively it would be a massive mistake to ban the only one thats actually good, while more niche ones will rise in viability it is not like they are particularly good pokemon and more of us just making due with what we have.

i would like to see ghold looked at after home or around dlc because i do think its super restraining in just about every aspect but right when we have only one good steel I just don't think we can reasonably ban it and not make the meta worse than it already is.

 

[awyp]

Gholdengo is top 2 best mons in OU without a doubt (Dengo and Tusk). If Tusk was to get banned (this is theoretical because it doesn't deserve a ban) Dengo I think would be suspected because EQ / Knock Off switch from a Rapid Spin predict on Tusk vs Dengo is one of the most common matchups we see. If that was to completely disappear Iron Tread usage would skyrocket but Gholdengo would have the meta in a chokehold. I feel with the surrounding mons currently Dengo is not an issue, and with a bigger pool being realeased during HOME, I really don't know if it will ever get tested. I think it is a restricting mon but I just don't see Dengo getting banned but Walking Wake walking free (no pun intended). Surveys have said in the past a lot of the voters don't think it's problematic (averaging anywhere from a 2-2.5/5).

 

[Reddit Gold User]

Kingambit (and other mons IE Volcarona) + terastallizing being a thing makes this tier thoroughly unenjoyable to play. The novelty has worn off and every ladder game being some variation on a degenerate HO is getting dull. Tier feels like it's still in beta with how much things shift from week to week.

 

[pika pal]

I just want to give Zoroark-H some credit, I think when it was first released people were making fun of it saying its just Zoroark but it's typing makes a world of difference, there a lot of Dark types in the tier as well as Rapid Spinners, this is where it comes in. Tusk wanting to spin realizes its Zoroark and gets 2HKO'd by Hyper Voice. Another situation is any time you pair Zoro with Roaring Moon or Kingambit and the opposing side will use a fighting move, Mach Punch from Breloom, Close Combat from Quaq, HJK from Cinderace, CC / Body Press from Great Tusk, it all gets 2HKO'd from the most part so it's a very game swinging Pokémon. I feel like I just have to give Zoro their flowers because super underrated mon and you have to predict right to really catch it and make it useless.


Zoroark-Hisui @ Focus Sash
Ability: Illusion
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Grass Knot
- Flamethrower

My personal favorite set but Choice Specs Trick is more gutsy and probably more bang for your buck but I like leaning behind a Focus Sash if I can.

It's the little things for it. The bit of extra Speed and Power on its BST are huge when the mon's already made of Paper and thus never counts on surviving a hit, min-maxing in action to just eek out that extra bit of potentially-game-deciding damage. Given Zoroark also can't take a Neutral Hit to save its after-life, it much prefers 3 immunities to 1, on top of two complimentary STAB options.

All this combines to make its mind games actually worth something, and as a weird addition it benefits from the state of the Meta.

• Its Immunities to common move choices on Pokemon it checks or "fake-checks" (basically match-ups it wins if Illusion mind games bait a sub-optimal play) include very influential Pokemon like Dragapult, Gholdengo, Great Tusk, ES Dragonite, Iron Valiant, and Breloom, all of which frequently run moves it can Blank (not necessarily all with the same level of "dependence" granted) compared to one much less common immunity in Psychic for the original (which has never been a common type spam since Gen 5 with the Line's introduction).
• It also benefits from its Main STAB being highly spammable: You can keep up the Illusion (yes intended) for much longer without dedicated play since so many Pokemon specifically run Shadow Ball as Ghost STAB or even Coverage in Valiant's case, so even if you survive the turn of "Dragapult" throwing a Shadow Ball at you via a risky Switch or a Slow Pivot, it still doesn't tell you if your own SB is a safe move to go for, or more importantly, if that's a Zoroark that you outspeed with your pivoted Meowscarada/Roaring Moon to set-up, or an Actual Dragapult/Scarf Gholdengo ready to call your bluff right back. The ability to maintain the 50/50 bluff for multiple turns at a time goes a long way for the playstyle.
  • This is one immediate example, you could also probably play with weird edge Lures like Dragapult's Flamethrower Coverage to imitate Zoroark in the opposite direction, or Trick-Specs on both Zoroark and Gholdengo to lock up Garg or Skeledirge, and then "Surprise, I have another set of Specs to cripple Kingambit" or otherwise breaking through a Check with the intact-Specs user's Shadow Ball (effectively meaning the opponent has to play around Specs calcs even after getting Tricked once)

252 SpA Choice Specs Zoroark-Hisui Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 190-225 (55.7 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 199-235 (58.3 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 163-193 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO

 

[SetsuSetsuna]

Hey, updated samples in OU room on PS! to reflect not only Walking Wake being in the tier, but also to showcase some popular teams such as Vert's Glimmora + Orthworm HO or the infamous Ultimate Stall. As always thank you to Mimikyu Stardust, and ofc everyone who makes this possible by sharing their teams.

​

We also have a new post in Teams of the Week. We have had new people send in their teams, hope everyone else does so too c:

 

[1LDK]

To put some topic for conversation, the amount of birds, not just defoggers, but flying types in general right now, is kinda low, and it oppresses a lot, OU only has Corviknight (who is bad in this meta) Dragonite (who is an offensive mon that fill a completely different niche) and Pelipper (same niche) and then if count Hydreigon and Rotom-Wash as "flying types" its a grand total of 5


What's your favorite Flying Type/Ground Immune Pokémon right now?
(tera doesn't count, so don't even try to bullshit me with tera flying gambit or tera flying valiant)

 

[Red Raven]

To put some topic for conversation, the amount of birds, not just defoggers, but flying types in general right now, is kinda low, and it oppresses a lot, OU only has Corviknight (who is bad in this meta) Dragonite (who is an offensive mon that fill a completely different niche) and Pelipper (same niche) and then if count Hydreigon and Rotom-Wash as "flying types" its a grand total of 5


What's your favorite Flying Type/Ground Immune Pokémon right now?
(tera doesn't count, so don't even try to bullshit me with tera flying gambit or tera flying valiant)

Hydreigon for me. I always run it with tera poison because turning that annoying Donphan into nasty plot fodder is just so much fun

 

[awyp]

To put some topic for conversation, the amount of birds, not just defoggers, but flying types in general right now, is kinda low, and it oppresses a lot, OU only has Corviknight (who is bad in this meta) Dragonite (who is an offensive mon that fill a completely different niche) and Pelipper (same niche) and then if count Hydreigon and Rotom-Wash as "flying types" its a grand total of 5


What's your favorite Flying Type/Ground Immune Pokémon right now?
(tera doesn't count, so don't even try to bullshit me with tera flying gambit or tera flying valiant)

Dragonite, and put respect on Corviknights name. Dragonite is so good in Gen 9, very versatile and always a threat if there's not a Dondozo / Corviknight on the opposing end.

 

[Komodo_Drogo]

To put some topic for conversation, the amount of birds, not just defoggers, but flying types in general right now, is kinda low, and it oppresses a lot, OU only has Corviknight (who is bad in this meta) Dragonite (who is an offensive mon that fill a completely different niche) and Pelipper (same niche) and then if count Hydreigon and Rotom-Wash as "flying types" its a grand total of 5


What's your favorite Flying Type/Ground Immune Pokémon right now?
(tera doesn't count, so don't even try to bullshit me with tera flying gambit or tera flying valiant)

Haven't used it since wake came out but was liking jugulis quite a bit. Probably worse off now with the changes to the meta.

 

[Magcargo]

Orthworm @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Earth Eater
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Body Press
- Sleep Talk
- Shed Tail

This set looks like trash (and it probably is) but its legit worked in many games for me. Orthworm is mostly seen as a Shed Tail bot, but it actually has a ton of defensive utility since its able to check some big threats like D-Nite, Roaring Moon, and Kingambit, which I think is more useful lol. You have more utility since you are inflicting Rocky Helmet chip to these guys, more longevity to check them even after a Shed Tail pass, and aren't entirely passive since Restalk has a chance to select Shed Tail, meaning that something else like Kingambit can come in for free and doesn't need to Tera to check stuff Volcarona (well you kinda do cuz Flame Body OP, but it isn't as necessary).

 

[awyp]

Orthworm @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Earth Eater
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Body Press
- Sleep Talk
- Shed Tail

This set looks like trash (and it probably is) but its legit worked in many games for me. Orthworm is mostly seen as a Shed Tail bot, but it actually has a ton of defensive utility since its able to check some big threats like D-Nite, Roaring Moon, and Kingambit, which I think is more useful lol. You have more utility since you are inflicting Rocky Helmet chip to these guys, more longevity to check them even after a Shed Tail pass, and aren't entirely passive since Restalk has a chance to select Shed Tail, meaning that something else like Kingambit can come in for free and doesn't need to Tera to check stuff Volcarona (well you kinda do cuz Flame Body OP, but it isn't as necessary).

Definitely not a trash set, I've seen it before it's extremely nasty when you pull off the Sleep Talk Shed Tail, I like the set a lot,

 

[Ast0rga]

To put some topic for conversation, the amount of birds, not just defoggers, but flying types in general right now, is kinda low, and it oppresses a lot, OU only has Corviknight (who is bad in this meta) Dragonite (who is an offensive mon that fill a completely different niche) and Pelipper (same niche) and then if count Hydreigon and Rotom-Wash as "flying types" its a grand total of 5


What's your favorite Flying Type/Ground Immune Pokémon right now?
(tera doesn't count, so don't even try to bullshit me with tera flying gambit or tera flying valiant)

is my favorite Earth Eater in the gen. Pun intended.
It can come into Clodsire without a single worry (except yawn). Dragonite or Baxcalibur without random fire move.
It sure can't come into Tusks, unless I Tera Poison it, but that would be kind of a waste. Still an option.
Glimmora is another free switch in.
You can run it with screens or just try to lure something that can allow you to Shed tail once and go home.

So my favorite Ground Immune mon is Orthworm because he's my fav overall mon atm.
Everyone wants to ban wake or garg (myself included on that one), and all of us abuse Iron Valiants to no end.
But meanwhile, I'll keep discreetly making more and more Shed Tail teams. Abusing the best move in the game that probably will never get banned is a lot of fun. Also look at it, it so cute

 

[g3od00d]

is my favorite Earth Eater in the gen. Pun intended.
It can come into Clodsire without a single worry (except yawn). Dragonite or Baxcalibur without random fire move.
It sure can't come into Tusks, unless I Tera Poison it, but that would be kind of a waste. Still an option.
Glimmora is another free switch in.
You can run it with screens or just try to lure something that can allow you to Shed tail once and go home.

So my favorite Ground Immune mon is Orthworm because he's my fav overall mon atm.
Everyone wants to ban wake or garg (myself included on that one), and all of us abuse Iron Valiants to no end.
But meanwhile, I'll keep discreetly making more and more Shed Tail teams. Abusing the best move in the game that probably will never get banned is a lot of fun. Also look at it, it so cute

Bless the Maker and it's Shed Tail. Bless the shedding and switching of Him.

 

[Savouras]

is my favorite Earth Eater in the gen. Pun intended.
It can come into Clodsire without a single worry (except yawn). Dragonite or Baxcalibur without random fire move.
It sure can't come into Tusks, unless I Tera Poison it, but that would be kind of a waste. Still an option.
Glimmora is another free switch in.
You can run it with screens or just try to lure something that can allow you to Shed tail once and go home.

So my favorite Ground Immune mon is Orthworm because he's my fav overall mon atm.
Everyone wants to ban wake or garg (myself included on that one), and all of us abuse Iron Valiants to no end.
But meanwhile, I'll keep discreetly making more and more Shed Tail teams. Abusing the best move in the game that probably will never get banned is a lot of fun. Also look at it, it so cute

Man i rly want that thing gone, shed tail is so broken and got our poor boy Cyclizar banned too.

 

[Fancy1]

Man i rly want that thing gone, shed tail is so broken and got our poor boy Cyclizar banned too.

I feel shedtail feels a lot more underwhelming on orthworm, the thing still has pretty common weaknesses to cc and pyroball/torch song/ other fire moves. cyclizar was wayyy more of a problem with its speed tier, good supporting moves and regenerator patched up shed tails like only downside. don’t get me wrong orthworm is def still a good mon, but I do thinks it’s much more easy to handle over cyclizar

 

[YNM]

To put some topic for conversation, the amount of birds, not just defoggers, but flying types in general right now, is kinda low, and it oppresses a lot, OU only has Corviknight (who is bad in this meta) Dragonite (who is an offensive mon that fill a completely different niche) and Pelipper (same niche) and then if count Hydreigon and Rotom-Wash as "flying types" its a grand total of 5


What's your favorite Flying Type/Ground Immune Pokémon right now?
(tera doesn't count, so don't even try to bullshit me with tera flying gambit or tera flying valiant)

I'd go with Corvi, especially because the main Ground threats in the meta are all physical mons that get walled by its Iron Defense/Bulk Up set, like Tusk, Dnite, Treads and Garchomp. It rarely brought me down and it's a pretty consistent mon between Body Press/Brave Bird, Defog and U-turn.