Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

[Nokocchi]

Any time gen 1-2(and to some degree, 3) pokemon's movesets are involved, I wouldn't ask too many questions.
Many of them suffer from messed up early movesets where pokemon learned moves "because yes" as there wasn't much thought behind it and it was transferred over.
Earthquake being learnable by almost everything under the sun isn't exactly much different from the insane amount of early gens pokemon learning Surf or Icebeam or Flamethrower

Interestingly Venusaur didn't get Earthquake until Gen III.

In fact many older Pokemon that couldn't learn Earthquake in any way in Gen I and II suddenly got it via TM in Gen III. Besides Venusaur, there was Primeape, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Chansey, Pinsir, Dragonite, Mewtwo, Forretress, Dunsparce, Granbull, Mantine, Hitmontop, and Blissey.

Rockslide, Shadow Ball, and Sludge Bomb also weren't available on many Pokemon that were in the first games where they were TMs but could learn them in Gen III. In Sludge Bomb's case, there was a lot of Poison types that couldn't learn the the TM in Gen II, which once again included Venusaur.

While not as wide-spread as the physical moves, some special moves like Ice Beam also got new learners among the Gen I and II Pokemon in Gen III as well.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Unlike weather-setting moves where the Pokemon who learn them are less concerned with "why should this learn it" than they are "why shouldn't this learn it", terrain-setting moves all have pretty standard distribution. All four of them are learned almost exclusively by Pokemon of their associated type, with the few exceptions being Pokemon whose flavor is at least somewhat adjacent to the type in question.

There is one exception to this.



Chansey and Blissey can learn Electric Terrain.

 

[pika pal]

Unlike weather-setting moves where the Pokemon who learn them are less concerned with "why should this learn it" than they are "why shouldn't this learn it", terrain-setting moves all have pretty standard distribution. All four of them are learned almost exclusively by Pokemon of their associated type, with the few exceptions being Pokemon whose flavor is at least somewhat adjacent to the type in question.

There is one exception to this.



Chansey and Blissey can learn Electric Terrain.

To be fair, how would you sleep at night knowing these Blobs support Quark Drive?

 

[R_N]

Unlike weather-setting moves where the Pokemon who learn them are less concerned with "why should this learn it" than they are "why shouldn't this learn it", terrain-setting moves all have pretty standard distribution. All four of them are learned almost exclusively by Pokemon of their associated type, with the few exceptions being Pokemon whose flavor is at least somewhat adjacent to the type in question.

There is one exception to this.



Chansey and Blissey can learn Electric Terrain.

See my gut reaction was that "oh i bet they have all the other terrains too, and pumpkinz just didn't mention it", and it'd just be leaning into the normal eclectic wide movepools thing. But no. They have electric terrain specifically

Maybe they meant to have Misty Terrain, like some of the other "blobs" got either this gen or last and nowe 're just stuck with them giving it TM136 instead of TM139

 

[Worldie]

See my gut reaction was that "oh i bet they have all the other terrains too, and pumpkinz just didn't mention it", and it'd just be leaning into the normal eclectic wide movepools thing. But no. They have electric terrain specifically

Maybe they meant to have Misty Terrain, like some of the other "blobs" got either this gen or last and nowe 're just stuck with them giving it TM136 instead of TM139

That was also my first though, I also thought that they mistook the TM 136 with TR 36 from previous gen but also nada...

I'd assume that they meant to give Misty Terrain and put a 6 instead of a 9, that'd be a reasonable explanation...

 

[LunaStik]

That was also my first though, I also thought that they mistook the TM 136 with TR 36 from previous gen but also nada...

I'd assume that they meant to give Misty Terrain and put a 6 instead of a 9, that'd be a reasonable explanation...

My first guess is actually defibrillators. Nurse Joy’s Pokemon performing CPR?

 

[Pikachu315111]

Chansey and Blissey can learn Electric Terrain.

Well how else are they expected to cook their eggs? Sunny Day?

So in another thread we were discussing Oinkologne. Of course I checked its Bulbapedia page and actually decided to look through its Moves. Now, I already knew their Moves were different based on Gender... Except their not.

For some reason, the different leveling-up Moves for Oinkologne doesn't concern knowing different Moves, but rather what Levels they learn their Moves. Both genders learn the same Moves and generally in the same order, it's just one learns a Move earlier than another (and it's only by a few Levels).

Detailed breakdown

Now the oddity starts right away with all their Moves below Level 18. Why 18? Because, remember, Oinkologne needs to evolve from Lechonk, which evolves at Level 18. Now I don't think it's unusual for some evos to have different level-up Moves for Moves before its evo Level, just goes along with them adjusting the latter Moves levels. But for Oinkologne, even these pre-evo Moves have different Levels are offset. Males have them as the same as Lechonk, but females are set to learn all their Moves 2 or 3 Levels earlier (which feels has to be manually done).

Oh, but the strangeness continues. Now, since males follow Lechonk's level-up moveset until Level 18, that means when it evolves it just keeps going on from male Oinkologne's moveset. But females, if you evolve them before they learn Headbutt at Level 21 as a Lechonk, will not learn Headbutt (though that's no problem as you can just relearn it via the stat screen, but still it's something you'd even know you could do). You see, because of the offset, female Oinkologne learn Headbutt at Level 17 while males learn it at 23. And it's especially strange because its at Level 17 where there's a level jump for Oinkologne, not learning its next Move until Level 23. So, because with females they moved all Moves to be learned earlier by 2 or 3 Levels, this moved Headbutt JUST out of range for them.

But it gets stranger! Because there IS an order difference, and it's only with two moves which are right next to each other: Take Down and Yawn. Males learn Take Down before Yawn, and female vice versa. This is also the only time males learn a Move earlier than the females, Take Down (males get it at 26, females at 28); of course this means females get Yawn even earlier (females at 23, males at 27).

Then SUDDENLY, after learning Yawn at 27, males don't learn a new Move until 34, 7 levels later! Females also have a slightly bigger gap between Yawn and Take Down, but it's only 5 levels with them.

After Yawn/Take Down the next Moves they learn is Work Up and Uproar. Why I pointed them out? Because, between the two genders, instead of the usual 2 or 3 levels difference, it's a 4 levels difference. Males get it 34 & 38, females get it 30 & 34.

And finally it returns to the usual 2 or 3 levels difference for the final 3 Moves, the final one being Belch (males at 54, females at 51).

So, um, GF, just a small little question, one you probably should have asked yourself...

WHY?

Why bother? Is this, like, a leftover of an idea that you were going to give them slightly different movesets like Meowstic but decided not to and didn't even feel bothered to change the female's moveset back? Both do get one difference between gender, males get the Ability Lingering Aroma while females stick with Aroma Veil as Lechonk has (not that you'd notice if their Ability is Gluttony or Thick Fat instead), so there is thought of making them slightly different from one another.

 

[R_N]

Probably an oversight.

 

[Worldie]

Sometimes I do wonder on which basis they even decide things like that.

Like they decide "ok this is a chonky normal type, let's give them the standard normal type stuff, then maybe a couple moves based on smell since it's a pig, also weight-based moves since it's a heavy weight, maybe throw a couple puns in there". And they get a list, but then, how do they decide "you'll learn this move at this level".

Not that it'd be any relevant, but I'd be curious of the logic process behind ordering the learnset and also deciding which moves go to the learnset, which go to TMs/Tutors, and which go to egg moves.

 

[Hugin]

Sometimes I do wonder on which basis they even decide things like that.

Like they decide "ok this is a chonky normal type, let's give them the standard normal type stuff, then maybe a couple moves based on smell since it's a pig, also weight-based moves since it's a heavy weight, maybe throw a couple puns in there". And they get a list, but then, how do they decide "you'll learn this move at this level".

Not that it'd be any relevant, but I'd be curious of the logic process behind ordering the learnset and also deciding which moves go to the learnset, which go to TMs/Tutors, and which go to egg moves.

Honestly, I suspect that it's one person per mon designing the mechanics. Presumably with a boss coming behind them to check and adjust, but some of the statements about people being responsible for certain mons have me thinking that it's mostly "Steve, you're not doing anything today, here's 3 sets of art/dex entries, get them mechanics-ready. Sarah, you're building the water gym, here's the art for their ace. Hunter will be checking both of your work when you're done." Presumably with various later editing passes for late in development TM changes or whatever.

That'd explain some of the wild inconsistencies we've documented here, and probably is the easiest way to do it short of creating a bunch of move sublists(which is how I'd do it).

 

[Blitz]

Here's a fun one that's not particularly conventional.

Dragonite has consistently learned Outrage by level-up since the move's introduction in Gen II. Given its power as a strong Dragon-type move (even before its 120 BP buff), it stands to reason that Outrage would be a late-game move Dragonite learns. It learns it at level 61 in Gens II and III before its final move Hyper Beam. It goes up to level 64 in Gen IV, further goes up in Gen V at level 67 before Hyper Beam and the newly introduced Hurricane, stays the same in Gen VI and Gen VII.

And the trend changes here.

You see, Dragonite learns Outrage in Gen VIII at level 41 instead, which is a sharp level drop from all its other iterations. But wait, this rabbit hole goes deeper! You see, Dragonite's level-up pool internally still has Outrage sandwiched between a level 62 Dragon Dance and a level 80 Hyper Beam. It leads to an odd inconsistency in the fact that Dragonite gets Dragon Rush at level 39, immediately gets Outrage at level 41, then has an 18 level gap between learning Dragon Dance and Hyper Beam. Dratini and Dragonair don't have this mistake and actually learn Outrage later than Dragonite does (at 55 and 67, ironically enough, respectively), which is a moot point overall since a player can just evolve Dragonite at level 55 and just "reteach" it Outrage.

All this to say that this inconsistency is peculiar because it's simply the product of someone at GF inputting the wrong number - given Outrage's position on Dragonite's learnset, it's pretty obvious it's meant to go at level 71 instead, and in a numpad, 7 is above 4. Oops!

What's more, this wasn't fixed in the transition to Gen IX (nor were Dratini and Dragonair changed), so you can enjoy your early Outrage Dragonite once more!

 

[Vengeance417]

Scream Tail screams. A lot. It knows sound-based moves like Boomburst, Hyper Voice, Perish Song, Howl, Noble Roar, and Sing.

Why, then, is Scream Tail unable to learn Screech?

Screech's Japanese name translates to "Unpleasant Tone" according to Bulbapedia. Screaming in itself is an unpleasant tone, as is moves that involve yelling like Boomburst and Hyper Voice. It should learn Screech, but it doesn't.

It'd make Scream Tail an even better Tera Raid supporter than it already is :(​

 

[SP458]

Here's a fun one that's not particularly conventional.

Dragonite has consistently learned Outrage by level-up since the move's introduction in Gen II. Given its power as a strong Dragon-type move (even before its 120 BP buff), it stands to reason that Outrage would be a late-game move Dragonite learns. It learns it at level 61 in Gens II and III before its final move Hyper Beam. It goes up to level 64 in Gen IV, further goes up in Gen V at level 67 before Hyper Beam and the newly introduced Hurricane, stays the same in Gen VI and Gen VII.

And the trend changes here.

You see, Dragonite learns Outrage in Gen VIII at level 41 instead, which is a sharp level drop from all its other iterations. But wait, this rabbit hole goes deeper! You see, Dragonite's level-up pool internally still has Outrage sandwiched between a level 62 Dragon Dance and a level 80 Hyper Beam. It leads to an odd inconsistency in the fact that Dragonite gets Dragon Rush at level 39, immediately gets Outrage at level 41, then has an 18 level gap between learning Dragon Dance and Hyper Beam. Dratini and Dragonair don't have this mistake and actually learn Outrage later than Dragonite does (at 55 and 67, ironically enough, respectively), which is a moot point overall since a player can just evolve Dragonite at level 55 and just "reteach" it Outrage.

All this to say that this inconsistency is peculiar because it's simply the product of someone at GF inputting the wrong number - given Outrage's position on Dragonite's learnset, it's pretty obvious it's meant to go at level 71 instead, and in a numpad, 7 is above 4. Oops!

What's more, this wasn't fixed in the transition to Gen IX (nor were Dratini and Dragonair changed), so you can enjoy your early Outrage Dragonite once more!

Speaking of Outrage and pseudos...

Salamence levelup

Salamence can no longer learn Outrage by level in Gen IX (Lv.64 in Gen VIII), while its pre-evolutions can.

 

[Hugin]

Speaking of Outrage and pseudos...

Salamence levelup

View attachment 514483

Salamence can no longer learn Outrage by level in Gen IX (Lv.64 in Gen VIII), while its pre-evolutions can.

...what? How did they even make that mistake?

On a related, not-quite-movepool note, why does Shelgon keep the Rock Head ability? Every other pupae in the game gets Shed Skin, they changed it's HA, and it's going to change primary ability at some point anyway, why leave it with Rock Head?

 

[R_N]

...what? How did they even make that mistake?

On a related, not-quite-movepool note, why does Shelgon keep the Rock Head ability? Every other pupae in the game gets Shed Skin, they changed it's HA, and it's going to change primary ability at some point anyway, why leave it with Rock Head?

Probably beacuse they treat Shelgon more like a tortoise that acts like a pupa, than a "proper" pupa ala Pupitar.

And it's basically all head and its rocky so hell, sure. Keep Rock Head. The fact it got a hidden ability when the other gen 1-3 Pupae didn't also feels like they double down on that (Spewpa, surprisingly, did get a HA)

 

[Genuine_Angus_B33F]

I think that pulling from BDSP to make entries in this thread is borderline cheating, but....

Nobody's mentioned Wing Attack Doduo?

This replaces Pursuit, for the record, and it also gets Pluck at Level 19 anyway.

Spearow and Fearow got the same change, and while isn't as blatantly silly I'd argue it's similarly cursed considering the literal decades it spent not using the move.

 

[R_N]

while definitely silly and as you say probably just a BDSP-ism, flightless birds can have wings. In fact, Doduo explicitly does; wings are mentioned in a few of its dex entries.

 

[Pikachu315111]

while definitely silly and as you say probably just a BDSP-ism, flightless birds can have wings. In fact, Doduo explicitly does; wings are mentioned in a few of its dex entries.

Also, since Gen II, they could learn Steel Wing (when it was available).

 

[Karxrida]

I quickly looked it up and IRL kiwi birds do have wings, they're just small and obviously not useful for flying. (Doduo and Dodrio are probably more based on ostriches, but their wings being basically invisible brings kiwis to mind more.)

Still kind of silly but not entirely unreasonable.

 

[Jungle cruiser]

Y'all know, I love bug bite's simplicity. It's a move in which the user, a bug, bites! And all the mons that learn it make sense too! There we have caterpie the little caterpillar, nymble the little grasshopper, burmy the little bagworm and...

Heatmor the anteater?!?!?!?!

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Y'all know, I love bug bite's simplicity. It's a move in which the user, a bug, bites! And all the mons that learn it make sense too! There we have caterpie the little caterpillar, nymble the little grasshopper, burmy the little bagworm and...View attachment 514913
Heatmor the anteater?!?!?!?!

"What do you mean 'the move isn't about biting bugs'? I already put it in my moveset!"
--- Heatmor, probably

 

[R_N]

"What do you mean 'the move isn't about biting bugs'? I already put it in my moveset!"
--- Heatmor, probably

It's absolutely the reason it got it. It's had it since Heatmor's inauguration so it was probably a designer having a laugh.

I respect it.

 

[KaenSoul]

Was checking Chesnaught yesterday and there was something that I wasn't expecting on its movepool, Dragon Claw, a move that is usually learned by Dragon Types and reptiles, but there is actually a few more exceptions:

So what is about them? Is not like all bears learn the move just Bewear and Pangoro, meanwhile Ceruledge is the only sword user with it, what do they even have in common?

 

[BIG ASHLEY]

So what is about them? Is not like all bears learn the move just Bewear and Pangoro, meanwhile Ceruledge is the only sword user with it, what do they even have in common?

they're really really cool

 

[R_N]

Binacle is literally made out of claws, so I think getting Dragon Claw makes sense. It also gets damn near every "claws you to death" move. Scratch, Fury Cutter, Fury Swipes, Slash, Shadow Claw, Night Slash, etc etc.

It also gets TOugh Claws which, while not exclusive to claw moves and while not every Tough Claws user gets Dragon Claw, probably helped a little too.

Bewear probably got it as part of its shtick: it looks like a friendly mascot but it is actually extremely fierce, strong and dangerous.



Ceruledge is...more confusing. I guess you can make a "slashing -> "clawing" type thing, similar to the other slashing moves like binacle, but the other swordsmen don't do that.