Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Iron Valiant can learn Liquidation.

...what?
Maybe it has a liquid cooling system? But by that logic other Future Paradox Pokémon should learn the move.

But yeah it's weird. Valiant is one of the only Pokémon that is neither Water-type or Water-type adjacent (e.g. Dhelmise) that gets Liquidation.

(Fun fact, Garchomp can also learn the move for some reason.)
 
I mean the anime also decided that Aerial Ace was a tackling move. Plus Liquidation doesn't get boosted by Sharpness.

So who knows.
Liquidation able to be used in a more precise manner doesn't mean it is a blade move, simply that it could be used as one.
As Magala pointed out it probably is the reason why Garchomp got the move this generation as well, so it was probably on their mind.




Also I'll come to defense on the tackling move, it's by far the smartest way to handle it (especially in the lesser animation era of the anime) because so many bird pokemon who are definitely not using it like a double edged swipe.
And hten they decided to just lean into it and have Krookodile take actual for real flight with the move. Respect.
 
Garchomp probably gets Liquidation for the same reason it can learn Surf: it's a shark. I mean, you never find it in the water, but there's nothing to say it'll never happen. It learning Liquidation seems fine. Iron Valiant, on the other hand...

I would have agreed with Pikachu315111's guess that there's a connection between the "break" part of Liquidation ("Aqua Break") and it being able to learn Spirit Break, but Spirit Break in Japanese is "Soul Crush" (Bulbapedia has it listed as "Soul Crash," but given that "crush" and "crash" are written the same way in katakana, and that the move's official translation leans toward "Soul Crush," I'm going to go with that). So that idea is mostly off of the table.
 
This conversation randomly reminded me that Keldeo and Seismitoad can't learn Ice Beam or Blizzard.

I think they're the only Water-types with TMs (read: not Magikarp) that don't get them.
Volcanion doesn't, either, but that one has some justification.

There are a few cases in Gen 5 where Game Freak seemingly randomly decided to be oddly stingy with what were traditionally pretty common TM moves (Ice Beam and Earthquake are the main ones I'm thinking of), but then they went back to old habits in Gen 6.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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I would have agreed with Pikachu315111's guess that there's a connection between the "break" part of Liquidation ("Aqua Break") and it being able to learn Spirit Break, but Spirit Break in Japanese is "Soul Crush" (Bulbapedia has it listed as "Soul Crash," but given that "crush" and "crash" are written the same way in katakana, and that the move's official translation leans toward "Soul Crush," I'm going to go with that). So that idea is mostly off of the table.
It learns Brick Break which in Japanese is called "Tile Break".

I think the main crux of this argument is whether you think it was a mistake or on purpose Liquidation was chosen over the more obvious Aqua Cutter.

Mistake: Aside from its design showing it wielding a double-bladed staff and learning plenty of other slicing moves, Gallade which it's half based on learns Aqua Cutter. And being half based on Gallade it learns a few other of Gallade's "out there" slicing moves like Leaf Blade. Both Liqudation and Aqua Cutter's Japanese name start with "Aqua" so it could be they mixed them up.

On Purpose: Though the "mix-up" explanation is a stretch as Liquidation is a TM while Aqua Cutter isn't. Gallade learns Aqua Cutter via Move Tutor, so why didn't they do the same for Valiant? And while Valiant learns plenty of slicing moves it does also learn plenty of other kinds of moves such as tackles, punches, and "vague" methods where it's up to the individual Pokemon to figure out how to perform the move. Infact, instead of a tackle, Liquidation could land in that "vague" category, there's nothing saying Valiant can't use its blades to use it. It's not like Valiant has the Sharpness Ability like Gallade does so has to be attentive if the Moves it uses could be considered a slicing move. And without Sharpness Ability, one could argue that Liquidation is the better Physical Water-type move: Aqua Cutter has a base 1/8th (12.5%) chance of boosting its Power from 70 to 105; Liquidation is 85 Power with a 1/5th (20%) chance to lower the targets Defense by a stage. 7 out of 8 of the time Liquidation is going to hit harder plus has a chance to make it so that not only would it hit harder but any other Physical move will hit harder.
 
Volcanion doesn't, either, but that one has some justification.

There are a few cases in Gen 5 where Game Freak seemingly randomly decided to be oddly stingy with what were traditionally pretty common TM moves (Ice Beam and Earthquake are the main ones I'm thinking of), but then they went back to old habits in Gen 6.
With Keldeo it could just be the strange winds of balance (on a Pokemon banned from all competitive formats including Battle Subway and that are generally just busted anyway), but Seismitoad is just bizarre.

It's just a mediocre Pokemon! And even in gen 5 you still had it mostly adhering to the normal squad; all the new Ice Types, all the new Water Types and a few select weirdos (Audino because its still carrying the normal type coverage torch, Sigilyph & the Golurk line because they're mysterious) & Genesect because it has a gun.

Least it got Ice Punch
 
Another possibility for Valiant getting Liquidation is to contrast with the base mons getting life dew. Despite life dew being nominally Water-type, the distribution leans much more towards Psychic and Fairy. So instead of having a team-support Water move, Valiant gets a more in-character Water-type attack. That said, I'm not confident in this since it being by TM doesn't line up with how either Gallade or Gardevoir learn life dew.
 

Pikachu315111

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I've noticed that it's rare for non-Water Pokémon to learn Water moves, unless it's Surf because HM.
From what I generally see, the "go to" general Water-type move is Water Pulse. It's sort of like Magical Leaf in that way where there's really no requirement to learn it aside GF deciding to give it. I'm surprised Fire doesn't have an ambiguous Move that's just as easily passed around (maybe Will-O-Wisp?).

In the past few gens Hydro Pump & Brine I've seen get some more spread outside the usual non-Water-types. Brine likely because it's concept allows for some creative giving (Nacli should have totally gotten it as an Egg Move; maybe as a DLC Move Tutor), and Hydro Pump because of its status (well known, powerful, but also handily inaccurate; they can give it to to certain bulky non-Water-types they don't want to give accurate Water-type moves to)

Scald used to be included above but it got it Signature Banned and I don't think it's coming back (unless they nerf it considerably).

Drowzee and Hypno, which are based on the concept of eating dreams, throughout the whole main series only learn Dream Eater by level in the Let's Go games.
They have no way to learn it in Scarlet / Violet since it is not a TM anymore.
Came up with a joke reason on the Little Annoyance thread why... but yeah, 9 gens in it's getting kind of silly not to just give them Dream Eater (up there with having Nidorina & Nidoqueen unable to breed). Haha, you had your joke, but now it's just an inconvenience.
 
So while I was looking at Gen 2 Articuno's movepool, I noticed that it has access to Water Gun and Bubble Beam, but no Water moves of any higher base power (outside of Hidden Power Water). What does this mean? Is Articuno capable of only producing small amounts of water? Can it just blow bubbles? It's stated in Articuno's Pokedex entries that it can chill or freeze the moisture in the air (or the air itself), and can control ice, but no mention is made of it actually producing any water. What makes this weirder is that many Water-types have access to high-powered Ice-type moves like Ice Beam and Blizzard, but the inverse is not true for a legendary Ice-type.
 
So while I was looking at Gen 2 Articuno's movepool, I noticed that it has access to Water Gun and Bubble Beam, but no Water moves of any higher base power (outside of Hidden Power Water). What does this mean? Is Articuno capable of only producing small amounts of water? Can it just blow bubbles? It's stated in Articuno's Pokedex entries that it can chill or freeze the moisture in the air (or the air itself), and can control ice, but no mention is made of it actually producing any water. What makes this weirder is that many Water-types have access to high-powered Ice-type moves like Ice Beam and Blizzard, but the inverse is not true for a legendary Ice-type.
It's probably because those were Gen 1TMs and they were fine with what are basically "water beams" (likewise with getting Water Pulse TM in gens where that was available), but they didn't want to escalate that to Hydro Pump in its natural move pool since they wanted the birds to mostly stick to their typing. Gen 8 prrrrobably could have given it Hydro Pump via TR, but I assume they still just didn't want it to have too many strong alternative options.
 

Pikachu315111

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Mystical Fire is getting there.
I feel Mystical Fire is over the power threshold for it to ever be given out as liberally as Water Pulse. To get Mystical Fire you need to have some kind of connection either to fire or magic/mysticism. Magical Leaf is sort of semi-between them, like it looks to have the rule of a grass/magic/psychic required but there are some choices which raise an eyebrow.
 

Pikachu315111

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I recently caught a Smoochum in (what else) Y, and I was scrolling through the TM list to see what I could teach her. As I scrolled through, I happened to glance at Bibarel, and likely my entire apartment complex could hear what happened next...

"WHY CAN YOU LEARN THUNDERBOLT??!"
Bidoof can learn it too (as well as Thunder, Shock Wave, Charge Beam, and Thunder Wave).

One explanation (and the most likely) could just be semi-Normal-type privilege. If they were pure Water-type they probably wouldn't learn it nor some other TMs like Shadow Ball & Grass Knot. However, since they're Normal-type, they get a bit of the extra Type Coverage that other pure Normal-types do. HOWEVER, since Bibarel is part Water, that does exclude it learning certain Moves that "wouldn't make sense". Namely the common Fire-type TMs (Flamethrower & Fire Blast), it still get the Ice ones (Ice Beam & Blizzard), but since it's Water-type it likely would have gotten them anyway.

The other, well, maybe it's a reference to dams being used to generate electricity via hydroelectricity.
 

Castersvarog

formerly Maronmario
So I only just recently realized that Mountain Gale cannot be given to regular Avalugg no matter what, unless they patch that in at some point in the future.

Now granted there’s other regional forms with their own signature moves, but those ones work pretty different and reasonably cannot be used by other variants.
Triple arrows works very differently to what a regular Decidueye can do, plus it already has spirit shackle. Infernal parade is a ghost type move so regular typhlosion couldn’t use it because it doesn’t have that connection. Same with Bitter malice, Dire claw, or Ceaseless edge not really working with their older variants for different reasons.
But Mountain Gale has nothing like that, it’s called Iceberg Wind, something regular Avalugg already is and should be capable of doing which makes it feel really odd that it’s not even an egg move.
 
Why does Mareep learn Thunderbolt by breeding in Gen II? In other gens it's a TM, fine. But it was semi-exclusive by level-up in that gen, with only the Pikachu and Electabuzz lines learning it naturally. I'd understand if it was widely available by breeding as a way to make up for it not being a TM, given out to Lanturn/Girafarig/etc, but just Mareep feels like an oversight.
 

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