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OU CCAT - Round 7 - Revision
- Thread starter doughboy
- Start date
being forced into 2 votes when there's only 3 options really fucks with this lol..
but
but
blitzlefan
shake it off!
LO Mixed Dragonite
Calm Mind Latias
Calm Mind Latias
Trainer Au
Insert custom title here
Sorry I am late on this guys. I counted up the votes and by a large margin, LO Mixed Dragonite wins!
Dragonite @ Life Orb
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 SAtk / 80 Atk / 176 Spd
Mild Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Superpower
- Roost
Important Announcement!
Our Community's very own @Lavos Spawn has agreed to do a stream with this very team! Stay posted for details about the timing of the stream. If we finish this CCAT strong, we can see this team streamed.
Round 6 Submissions begin!
Rules / Reminders:
Dragonite @ Life Orb
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 SAtk / 80 Atk / 176 Spd
Mild Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Superpower
- Roost
Important Announcement!
Our Community's very own @Lavos Spawn has agreed to do a stream with this very team! Stay posted for details about the timing of the stream. If we finish this CCAT strong, we can see this team streamed.
Round 6 Submissions begin!
Rules / Reminders:
- Submissions end 3 days from now at 8:00 PM GMT -5.
- There are no more slashes on Pokemon sets. Different slashes can take a team in different directions.
- You will be unable to change the submission in anyway after the deadline until the revision rounds. So if there are any suggested changes for your set (moves, EV's, etc.) do it before the submission deadline!
- Refer back to the OP for the main rules, format, and reminders.
- When you submit your set, think about how it contributes to the function of the team. Also think about what direction you believe the team should go, and reflect that in the submitted set.
- Don't just let submissions be the only contribution to this round!
- The team is now in the OP. Sets are on the bottom of the OP.
Okay so I look at the composition of the team and I see that it's offensively inclined with a tendency to switch about a lot with little passive recovery and no wish support. In this scenario I absolutely think we need a generic Spinner for support to maximize this team's potential, especially Dnite, who hates Rocks and also deal with Rain-Stall, which this team absolutely hates facing, especially if it happens to have Skarmory/Tenta in it.
In this situation I'd recommend a Spinner who can double up as a wallbreaker and support.
Misty (Starmie) @ Life Orb
Trait: Analytic
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
Fairly staple with a few twists. Analytic over Natural Cure mainly to nail Jellicent switch-in's, why this is highly important should be self explanatory. This team gets majorly screwed over by it otherwise. Scald because 'Fuck Stall'. And standard bolt-beam to wrap up coverage, helps take down stuff like Gyarados and Skarmory. Also outspeeding Specs/EB Keldeo+Latios is always nifty.
I would have liked to fit in Psyshock somewhere to better address Breloom and Tentacruel, who can completely manhandle this team if properly played, but as long as Breloom is dealt with and Lando-T kept healthy they shouldn't be too much of an issue if you have Spore/Scald fodder.
In this situation I'd recommend a Spinner who can double up as a wallbreaker and support.
Misty (Starmie) @ Life Orb
Trait: Analytic
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
Fairly staple with a few twists. Analytic over Natural Cure mainly to nail Jellicent switch-in's, why this is highly important should be self explanatory. This team gets majorly screwed over by it otherwise. Scald because 'Fuck Stall'. And standard bolt-beam to wrap up coverage, helps take down stuff like Gyarados and Skarmory. Also outspeeding Specs/EB Keldeo+Latios is always nifty.
I would have liked to fit in Psyshock somewhere to better address Breloom and Tentacruel, who can completely manhandle this team if properly played, but as long as Breloom is dealt with and Lando-T kept healthy they shouldn't be too much of an issue if you have Spore/Scald fodder.
So looking at the team now, Dragonite puts us into a tough position. It needs an anti-hazard option so it can keep coming in late game. What I also notice about our team is that we desperately need a revenge killer as well. Venasaur poses a major threat for this team if we can not keep Dragonite at high health. Our team also lacks a strong endgame plan outside of Landorus-T's Rock Polish. Terrakion could go down early game, so lest we play really well to keep him around, his speed won't be there for an endgame sweep. Lastly, we don't have anything for opposing Scarfers that could clean us up in the game.
That is a lot to put on the last slot with the team. But with an altered Starmie, I think we could make it work.
Starmie @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Trick
- Rapid Spin
So the gist of this Choice Scarf Starmie is that if it does not need it's revenge killing capacity, it can Trick it's Choice Scarf away to Rapid Spin. Outside of removing the scarf for the purpose of spinning, Trick is a really cool option to cripple opposing Jellicent, Ferrothorn, and Chansey. As for the two attacking moves I am having a tough time deciding. Surf is an excellent cleaning move to kill opposing pokemon in the lategame. Nothing is is going to outspeed Starmie and Starmie is very priority resilient (resists Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, Ice Shard, and (lol) Aqua Jet). Surf only really revenges Volcarona and Terrakion though. Ice Beam is perhaps the best revenge killing move on the set since it can destroy dragons, some +2 Thundurus-T's, and can hit Chlorophyll sweepers hard (yes we outspeed standard Timid Venasaur in the sun). Psyshock, however, can potentially OHKO Venasaur (43%) and hits Keldeo hard. Both Keldeo and Venasaur are extremely important targets so that is where my strife comes from.
Other possible options that could work for us in the last spot is a Pokemon who uses Taunt who is relatively fast. We also could put in an Alakazam for an "oh shit" revenge killing button and a speedy attacker.
That is a lot to put on the last slot with the team. But with an altered Starmie, I think we could make it work.
Starmie @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Trick
- Rapid Spin
So the gist of this Choice Scarf Starmie is that if it does not need it's revenge killing capacity, it can Trick it's Choice Scarf away to Rapid Spin. Outside of removing the scarf for the purpose of spinning, Trick is a really cool option to cripple opposing Jellicent, Ferrothorn, and Chansey. As for the two attacking moves I am having a tough time deciding. Surf is an excellent cleaning move to kill opposing pokemon in the lategame. Nothing is is going to outspeed Starmie and Starmie is very priority resilient (resists Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, Ice Shard, and (lol) Aqua Jet). Surf only really revenges Volcarona and Terrakion though. Ice Beam is perhaps the best revenge killing move on the set since it can destroy dragons, some +2 Thundurus-T's, and can hit Chlorophyll sweepers hard (yes we outspeed standard Timid Venasaur in the sun). Psyshock, however, can potentially OHKO Venasaur (43%) and hits Keldeo hard. Both Keldeo and Venasaur are extremely important targets so that is where my strife comes from.
Other possible options that could work for us in the last spot is a Pokemon who uses Taunt who is relatively fast. We also could put in an Alakazam for an "oh shit" revenge killing button and a speedy attacker.
So, something I noticed when looking over the established 5 members of the team so far is that there is no speed unless Landorus "Landorus" Therian gets a Rock Polish off, and there is no priority at all either. Something that Starmie (especially the Scarf variant posted above) was said to do is help with the fact the team as a whole is outsped by any random base 110s and above, and could also handle things like Venusaur in the sun, which would otherwise 6-0 the team with the right moveset. It was also to be a secondary "endgame" answer, able to clean up scarfers if they were to get past Landorus.
I agree that the team needs something fast and powerful. However, Starmie does not handle Venusaur as well as hoped, because does it have the power with Scarf, nor the coverage to be able to clean up teams.
Not only can Starmie not KO Venusaur (even after taking rocks damage and a Life Orb tick), but it allows it to gain all of its health back with a Giga Drain.
Two other underlying issues with the 5 members posted so far is that they are defensively weak to strong Ice types that can also hit hard with Ground type moves such as Mamoswine and Kyurem. Plus, offensively, there is nothing to deal with bulky Psychic types such as Cresselia and Reuniclus, which can set up on every single member of this team so far.
I decided to test out the team with an already suggested 6th member, seeing how it would fare against a team that can exploit the weaknesses outlined above. (This team was not designed as a counter-team, it was pre-made and chosen because it highlights the issues the team already faces).
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-47299626
The game was played between myself (using the Sun team) and a friend of mine, and as we battled we spoke to each other about what the "most likely" plays each player would make when using this team on the ladder. Obviously, the Starmie does not perform up to its intentions.
To help remedy these problems, I propose a Choice Band Scizor as our sixth.
Scizor @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit
- U-turn
In addition to being able to handle offensive ice types like Kyurem, it can easily dish out huge damage to bulky Psychic types with U-Turn or Pursuit. With the given EVs, it will outspeed all defensive Cresselia and reaches the benchmark to get the jump on defensive Heatran. Scizor's priority has always spoken for itself in terms of the damage it can deal and the Pokemon it can clean up.
The team already has two weaknesses to Ground, Water, Grass, and Ice, so it helps that Scizor does not add on to any of those, resisting both Grass and Ice as well. While this does not address the issue of removing hazards like Starmie does, because none of the Pokemon up until this point are choiced, we do not have to switch out as much as it seems at first glance. In fact, the only member of this team that "appreciates" hazard removal is Dragonite - which not only will break its own Multiscale with a single attack, it carries Roost to be able to get back up to full in a pinch.
We played another match using the Scizor over Starmie, and again tried our best to simulate the moves that would be made by making the "right" play each time. Note that the second Swords Dance by Landorus-T near the end was meant to simulate what would happen if either of the Stone Edges missed and it was just down to Scizor versus the Cresselia, Venusaur, and Kyurem.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-47303803
Even though it was close and the CCAT's Landorus-T got a Swords Dance off a miss (which might not have mattered given how weak it was), Scizor allowed the team to fare much better against one that highlighted its previous weaknesses so well, regardless of the outcome. It will make a great 6th Pokemon for this CCAT.
I agree that the team needs something fast and powerful. However, Starmie does not handle Venusaur as well as hoped, because does it have the power with Scarf, nor the coverage to be able to clean up teams.
Code:
252 SpA Starmie Ice Beam vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 174-206 (54.54 - 64.57%)Two other underlying issues with the 5 members posted so far is that they are defensively weak to strong Ice types that can also hit hard with Ground type moves such as Mamoswine and Kyurem. Plus, offensively, there is nothing to deal with bulky Psychic types such as Cresselia and Reuniclus, which can set up on every single member of this team so far.
I decided to test out the team with an already suggested 6th member, seeing how it would fare against a team that can exploit the weaknesses outlined above. (This team was not designed as a counter-team, it was pre-made and chosen because it highlights the issues the team already faces).
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-47299626
The game was played between myself (using the Sun team) and a friend of mine, and as we battled we spoke to each other about what the "most likely" plays each player would make when using this team on the ladder. Obviously, the Starmie does not perform up to its intentions.
To help remedy these problems, I propose a Choice Band Scizor as our sixth.
Scizor @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit
- U-turn
In addition to being able to handle offensive ice types like Kyurem, it can easily dish out huge damage to bulky Psychic types with U-Turn or Pursuit. With the given EVs, it will outspeed all defensive Cresselia and reaches the benchmark to get the jump on defensive Heatran. Scizor's priority has always spoken for itself in terms of the damage it can deal and the Pokemon it can clean up.
The team already has two weaknesses to Ground, Water, Grass, and Ice, so it helps that Scizor does not add on to any of those, resisting both Grass and Ice as well. While this does not address the issue of removing hazards like Starmie does, because none of the Pokemon up until this point are choiced, we do not have to switch out as much as it seems at first glance. In fact, the only member of this team that "appreciates" hazard removal is Dragonite - which not only will break its own Multiscale with a single attack, it carries Roost to be able to get back up to full in a pinch.
We played another match using the Scizor over Starmie, and again tried our best to simulate the moves that would be made by making the "right" play each time. Note that the second Swords Dance by Landorus-T near the end was meant to simulate what would happen if either of the Stone Edges missed and it was just down to Scizor versus the Cresselia, Venusaur, and Kyurem.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-47303803
Even though it was close and the CCAT's Landorus-T got a Swords Dance off a miss (which might not have mattered given how weak it was), Scizor allowed the team to fare much better against one that highlighted its previous weaknesses so well, regardless of the outcome. It will make a great 6th Pokemon for this CCAT.
Hmm true, but as it stands, this team is especially vulnerable to bulky DD gyara, especially in the rain. Something that should be our top alert, and we lose to Def Skarm who as I said fears nothing much from this team except Dnite's FBlast.
Hmm......I'll post one for this round(forgive me if it sucks lol)
Reserving forretress, editing post as of now(scared on ninja's)
Ok.
Forretress@Leftovers
Trait:Sturdy
EVs-252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef | IVs-0 Spe
Relaxed nature
-Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Volt Switch
-Gyro Ball
Forretress IMO is a pretty viable candidate. It can spin, provide spikes support and give free switches for terrakion, dragonite and dual dancer terrakion all in the same pokemon. It can act as a tank for the team and a good utility mon in general. This team already has 3 fire resists making it overall have good synergy and acts as an additional ice and fire resist. It also takes neutral damage from ground to not stack up a ground weakness. With this addition, at least one team member resists every type in the game. This does make us a bit weak to ghost types like gengar, but our other team members take it out just fine. Gyro ball is used to hit gengar hard on the switch instead of HP ice, the otherwise better option.
Reserving forretress, editing post as of now(scared on ninja's)
Ok.
Forretress@Leftovers
Trait:Sturdy
EVs-252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef | IVs-0 Spe
Relaxed nature
-Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Volt Switch
-Gyro Ball
Forretress IMO is a pretty viable candidate. It can spin, provide spikes support and give free switches for terrakion, dragonite and dual dancer terrakion all in the same pokemon. It can act as a tank for the team and a good utility mon in general. This team already has 3 fire resists making it overall have good synergy and acts as an additional ice and fire resist. It also takes neutral damage from ground to not stack up a ground weakness. With this addition, at least one team member resists every type in the game. This does make us a bit weak to ghost types like gengar, but our other team members take it out just fine. Gyro ball is used to hit gengar hard on the switch instead of HP ice, the otherwise better option.
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Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Dual Chop
- Scarf Garchomp give to our team a solid answer to Volcarona because the rest of the team and to options makes the team very weak to Volcarona, also give to this team an extra point to speed to outrun some stuff after a boost like DD mence or DD dragonite, Garchomp also is the cleaner on this team with a Choice Scarf the rest of the team can down another physical walls and tanks while that Garchomp is a late game sweeper or RK to a lot of things. Dual Chop helps with Substitute or Sash users while that Rough Skin deal better with stuff like Breloom, Scizor or Terrakion. Garchomp also does decent against any weather.
Scotti
we back.
If this team sucks with can blame DoughBoy for making this thread =)........................................................................................................... jkbtw im gonna be doing a live stream with this team on the ladder (idk if pillsbury told u guys yet) so it better not suck
this is under the assumption that my comp has the specs to stream
Anyway,
Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 236 Spd / 252 SAtk / 20 Def
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earth Power
- Magma Storm
- wooo we got that sexy heatran =). Anyway why should we choose Magma Storm Heatran well, first we need a scarfers since this team need some speed on it, and secondly the most important one we get owned by both Venusaur and Volc. This seemed like the best answer to me even though we loose a Rapid Spinner which could help dragonite, it has roost, so it can carry some of its own weight for once. If it fails well it should have carried more weight, but in the end we get owned by Volc and Venusaur and we need something to handle that and this is it. Next, because of Magma Storm we can predict dugtrio switch ins, since, Volc and Venusaur are normally sun pokemon, and we can defeat Dugtrio thanks to damage from Magma Storm, or we can spam to Fire Blast, but thats if they don't know were scarfed. Now before i continue i am going to tell you another pokemon i was going use over Heatran. Well lets say i though we needed a spinner more than anything and we had that weakness to Volc and Venusaur, so i though maybe we could run Tentacruel with max SpDef and Magic Coat =) no lol. Anyway yea i think Heatran is the best choice, since, it covers up most of the weaknesses on this team. So yeah, Heatran is a fire type and steel type, so yeah I hope this is the right choice of pokemon, if we pick Heatran and it sucks on the team we can blame Doughboy and you guys for hosting this and picking this, however i don't mind if you guys test this out, since, i had great time using Heatran on this team while testing, so yeah. A+ for the sexy heatran sprite and good choice of pokemon =).
WARNING: if you guys pick this pokemon and the team suck... not my fault lol not really, since, this is a team effort and i decided to pick the best choice of pokemon i thought would help for this team =), also its my fault if it sucks, since, i decided on this pokemon =). Also small rant about stupid stuff that makes no since at all.
EDIT: EV spread allows you to outspeed everything important with Modest Scarf, and i put the other EV's in defense because it might come in handy =).