OU CCAT - Round 7 - Revision

[doughboy]

PS: @ThePillsburyDoughBoy, can we resubmit old nominations as replacement?[/quote]

Yes you can. But just explain again with some fresh writing why it should be selected, don't just quote the post. If it wasn't selected the first time with the original writing and reasons, it probably won't be selected again.

Yeah speed is significant issue here. I was really disappointed with the last two choices since considering this is leaning towards an HO team, that speed is absolutely critical for the team to function.

 

[TGMD]

Yeah I'm glad we're identifying the real problems here, hopefully we can reverse the glaring problems created by the last 2 submissions. I'll make a huge post of my thoughts and submissions when I get time. Keep it up, guys.

 

[Ninetale3]

I feel is that this team objectively is somewhat unfocused. We have an Ho lead with no strong follow up pokes, Slow and doesn't have enough priority to get around it, and has decent offensive synergy but not enough defensive synergy to switch between each one comfortably.

I have a couple changes in mind. First I would change terrakion to scarf to fix some peed issues. Second Replace scizor with custap lead forretress. This would still give us a lead while giving good pinch spin support and provide hazards.
Sets:
Terrakion@Choice scarf
Trait: justified
Nature: Jolly
Evs: 252 atk, 252 speed, 4 hp
Moves:
Close Combat
Stone Edge
X-Scissor
Rock Slide

Forretress@custap berry
Trait:Sturdy
Nature:Lax
Ivs: 18Spdef, 30 speed
evs: 4 hp, 252 atk, 252 def
Moves:
Stealth rock
Spikes
Explosion
Rapid Spin

 

[Nysyr]

Right, I'm not going to suggest much, but we need to give Landorus-T 12 more speed EVs. During Lavos Spawn's stream, it was out speed by standard Venusaur at +2 and lost him the match iirc. Erm, Lead Garchomp is much better than Lead Terrakion in this metagame, so I'm going to suggest that we replace Terrakion with Garchomp. I don't think Dragonite + Rotom-W is enough for Rain teams, as Dragonite is worn down very quickly with no spinner + LO recoil. Speaking of Dragonite, I don't think Lavos had much success with it, as it didn't really do that well in wall breaking. I think this slot could be used more effectively. And finally, we have no revenge killer or Choice Scarfer, meaning we easily get swept by something like +1 Volcarona, +1 Dragonite, +1 Gyarados, and other powerful set up sweepers. Maybe we could keep the same Pokemon but go a different route? Banded Dragonite is a great revenge killer with it's powerful Extreme Speed, and hits more than Scizor's Bullet Punch coverage wise, while I guess Scizor could act as a late game sweeper after Landorus-T / Jirachi have eliminated most of it's checks / counters. I still don't like the fact that we don't have a Choice Scarf Pokemon, but that's all I'll share for now. Hopefully we can make this into a great team!

I would actually go with max speed EVs on Lando-T just for timid Heatran, modest/neutral Rotom-W. I think you can also outspeed smeargle if you really care. Basically the less things you need to rock polish to attack first and having more things you can SD and not worry about him switching in, the better.

Seconding Banded Dnite, or at least extreme speed over roost on the current set.

As for no choice scarfer, I think using Jirachi as a pure attacker and dedicating a mon for stealth rock leads just eats up a team slot, especially since we have no spinblocker lol. I would use the Shuca lure set on Rachi with stealth rocks, then in place of current terrakion lead, put the scarfer there.

 

[TGMD]

@Ninetale3 please read the first post of this round a little more carefully, a maximum of 2 whole pokemon changes is allowed. Your submission won't count unless you change it, sorry.

 

[Ninetale3]

@Ninetale3 please read the first post of this round a little more carefully, a maximum of 2 whole pokemon changes is allowed. Your submission won't count unless you change it, sorry.

My bad, I thought it said you could only replace two. The post has been edited to match the requirements.

 

[doughboy]

Ok so let's revive this up with a couple of suggestions of mine:

Removals:

• Get rid of Scizor
  • Scizor is just way to damn slow for the pace of the team. A lot of the times it is thrown on offensive teams to act as a decent Dragon resist, but we already have Jirachi for that. His presence on the team compounds our weakness to take down steel-type, especially Skarmory.
  • Scizor really is not a potent enough revenge killer compared to a dedicated Scarfer, another reason to give the axe to him.
  • His constant U-turn only develops our weakness to hazards, especially SR.

• Get rid of Dragonite
  • Dragonite really isn't the best rain check without Multiscale intact, which Life Orb always breaks. 91 HP / 100 SDef. stats uninvested and without Multiscale Dragonite is laughbly easy to break for the strongest water-types in rain.
  • Also Dragonite is slow as balls, we really need speed on the team to check opposing offensive threats and teams.
  • Dragonite is SR weak which compounds our weakness to hazards.
  • Dragonite compounds an Ice-weakness on our team. Our two most powerful wallbreakers, Mixed Dragonite and SD Landorus-T, are 4x weak to Ice! Bulky-waters with Ice Beam could be a problem.
  • Note: Surprise sets don't work when the entire community knows your team.

Small Changes:

• Change Landorus-T's EV spread to a Jolly spread
  • With a Jolly spread, Landorus-T has the ability check more things, especially pokes that can be big threats like Lucario. In addition, if Dugtrio on sun teams trap Terrakion (not lead anymore, more on this later) then Landorus-T only has to set up one Rock Polish to ensure a clean sweep against a weakened sun team even with a Sun-boosted Venasaur in the wings. We could use 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spd, which makes us hit 286 and a good amount of bulk, or 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spd which let's us hit 301, which outspeeds neutral base 100's and Jolly Toxicroack. With all the stuff we have around smacking the opponent hard, we really don't need the extra power.

---->

• 
  
  
  • Change Jirachi to a Choice Scarf set
    • First off I want to note something that kind of irked me when Mixed Jirachi was selected. Expert Belt and luring sets don't really work for the CCAT because basically the entire community knows your surprise lol. That really limits their effectiveness. Really, the CCAT isn't the environment where lures or surprise sets can be implemented and used properly.
    • Anyway we needed a dedicated Choice Scarfer on the team. Jirachi or Terrakion could go in this position, but I chose Jirachi for a couple of reasons. First, Terrakion's power should be saved for helping out Lando-T break down walls and Choice Scarf Terrakion overlaps a bit as an endgame pokemon with Landorus-T. Second, Choice Scarf Jirachi is really excellent on offensive teams for checking opposing offensive threats that we wouldn't be able to otherwise such as Alakazam, Latios, and Gengar. Also, Choice Scarf Jirachi is pretty priority resistant, particularly it resists Ice Shard, so it can be a late game option if Landorus-T can not be.
    • The moveset is up for grabs, but I definitely want U-turn to be on it as coverage moves because it is so excellent for gaining momentum and getting one of our power hitters in (Terrakion, Latias, etc.)

---->

• 
  
  • Change Terrakion to a Choice Band Set
    Choice Band Terrakion is so awesome at breaking down teams and gives us an excellent option to take down Steel-types. It paticularly can break down Landorus-T's own counters early and mid-game so Landorus-T can do work late-game. Take opposing Defensive Landorus-T for example; they take 38.84 - 45.93% from a CB Stone Edge. Do that twice with SR down and opposing Landorus-T will basically be gone.
    Choice Band Terrakion also gives us a great amount of speed on our team, which is what we desperately need. That speed is complicated by that huge attack, so it can get a lot of opportunities to shine against opposing offensive team.
    Terrakion's difficulty of switching in is resolved by the U-turn support from Jirachi and Volt-Switch from Rotom-W.

Replacements:

>>>>

• Use Latias over Dragonite
  • 
    
  • Latias is bulkier, way faster, and less susceptible to hazards than Dragonite.
  • Latias can check the same Pokemon as Dragonite and usually much more safely as well due to more bulk + no SR weakness
  • That speed is really key so that Latias performs better overall against offensive teams. It can't break defensive cores that easily, but the speed and bulk are totally work it.
  • Latias' Pursuit weakness can be used as an advantageous setup opportunity for Landorus-T

>>>>

• Use Mamoswine over Scizor and use as our SR setter
  • 
    
  • Mamoswine can keep Scizor's ability to revenge kill Dragon-types on the team with Ice Shard. IMO dragons aren't the thing to worry about for our team when talking about Ice Shard's importance.
  • Mamoswine's Ice Shard helps us check a lot of other key threats. Chlorophyll sweepers are the first thing that come to mind. Breloom is important too if Latias gets put asleep. Agility Thundurus-T in rain is another concern for our offensive team if Latias goes down.
  • Mamoswine, especially with a Life Orb, can do some real offensive work for our team. Many of Rotom-W's checks that would come in on Volt Switch absolutely hate Mamoswine: such as Latias, Amoonguss, and Celebi. Mamoswine can take out Landorus-T checks with its Ice-STAB such as Celebi, Gliscor, and opposing Landorus-T. Mamoswine's EQ and Landorus-T's EQ can form a one-two punch to soften eachothers checks.
  • Life Orb is good for that extra power to check threats, but we could use a lead Focus Sash Mamoswine too that does not use Endeavor.

>>????>>

• Possibly use Tyranitar over Scizor and use as our SR setter
  • I thought about the idea of using a lead Tyranitar with Ice Beam to lure in Landorus-T checks or a mix ttar with SR (maybe even one with Scarf to revenge Saur, not really maybe). Tyranitar's Sand could be used for weather control against opposing sun teams to stop Chlorphyll sweepers.
  • I really prefer Mamoswine over TTar though. TTar is slow, adds residual damage to our key water-resists, does not have good matchup against the most common offensive leads. and takes away the opportunity for our team to have priority.

How the team is now with the following changes:

Hide

Mamoswine (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef /252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- U-turn
- Zen Headbutt

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Psyshock
- Roost

Terrakion @ Choice Band
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Quick Attack
- X-Scissor
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat

Rotom-W @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 28 SAtk / 232 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest

Landorus (Landorus-T) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance

So here is how I have implement the changes above to my tastes. The first thing you should notice about our team is that it is a shitload faster. We have three Pokemon that are cleanly above the base 102 - Garchomp threshold and 5 Pokemon that are base 80 and above. Our original team only had 2 Pokemon breaking the (positive speed-natured) base 80 speed tier and one of them was our lead, Terrakion... Not only that, but this team has two users of priority: a strong Ice Shard from Mamoswine and a relatively weak Quick Attack from Terrakion. So we are in pretty good hands in terms of speed.

This team can cleanly abuse U-turn from Jirachi and Volt Switch from Rotom-W to get one of our hard hitters in: Mamoswine, Terrakion, and Latias. If Rotom-W brings in Celebi, Amoonguss, or Lati@s: Mamoswine comes in. If it brings Ferrothorn, Terrakion comes in. Meanwhile if Jirachi brings in Heatran, Magnezone, Gyarados, or Gastrodon: Choice Band Terrakion gets in the fray. Any generic physical wall like Gliscor, Landorus-T, or Skarmory will face the wrath of Latios or even Rotom-W. Getting these big hits of early and mid-game allows for the late game sweepers to shine: Landorus-T and Choice Scarf Jirachi. Iron Head Jirachi with the blessing of the haxgods outspeeds and brings stuff down. Landorus-T only needs that on shot of getting off a Rock Polish to become impossible to outspeed and cleanup with a 389 attack stat (almost as strong as a positive-attack natured base 130 attacker!). Priority in the forms of Ice Shard and Quick Attack and the move choices on Jirachi (Zen Headbutt for Keldeo, Fire Punch for SD Scizor we are weak to) make sure we don't get swept in the late game.

Overall this team hits a lot harder, a lot faster than the original team. It's a lot better.

edot: terrakion and jirachi bullet points don't change whatever :\

edit2: i sorta broke the rules maybe but i had a lot on my mind xD

 

[TGMD]

Lol, silly doughboy. Well tar > Scizor will be ignored at voting time unless u change the post, but yeah xD

 

[TGMD]

Extending the deadline another 4 days. This round will end 4 days from now at ~8:00pm GMT - 5

 

[Shurtugal]

Ill make a ful post tomorrow but I must say that DNite set looks so bad :/

 

[TGMD]

Hmmm I pretty much agree with doughboy's recommendations, so I'm not going to do a big post like I'd planned. However, we straight up need to replace Will-O-Wisp with Thunder Wave on Rotom-W. As PDC said, we're too weak to Volcarona with Dragonite gone, because although this team doesn't really let Volcarona set up for the most part, if Volcarona came in on Rotom-W late game it's pretty much gg, as there's nothing Rotom-W can do to stop Volcarona. We need Thunder Wave to paralyze Volcarona as an emergency option. This also helps with our speed issues even more.

I'm extending the deadline even further, I'm not sure exactly how much, I'll have to speak with dougboy, but at least 3 days.