OU CCAT - Round 7 - Revision

Choice Band Scizor (with QA tho, pls)
Scarf Infernape

I don't really like any of the options honestly :/
We only really have one solid water resist, and one rather shaky one ( while it has good natural bulk it's uninvested and it's SR weak ), but I didn't like the ones suggested.

I'd love to fit in maybe sunny day on rotom-w for some weather control, though WoW might be more useful :/
 
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Choice Band Scizor
Choice Band Weavile

I know I am voting for my own set but these are probably the best answers for the team in their own rights. We don't have room for a spinner. We can't have scarf chomp since it will give opponents a win button to anything with a decent ice move. They both give us a revenge killer and a backup plan if lando-t can't finish the match.
 
I counted it up 3 times. The last slot is Choice Band Scizor!

Scizor @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit
- U-turn

If anyone wants to double check my count, here is what I got:
Analytic Starmie: 12345678
Choice Scarf Starmie: 1234
Choice Band Scizor: 12345678910
Physically Defensive Forretress: 1
Choice Scarf Garchomp: 12345678
Choice Scarf Heatran: 123456
Specially Defensive Ferrothorn:
Choice Band Weavile: 123
CM Latias:
Choice Scarf Infernape (jolly): 12345678


What's Next: Pre-Stream Discussion

So at this point, you can now hit the ladder with the team yourself to get a feel for the team's flaws and areas where the team could be improved. In addition, you can watch the team in action on the ladder being played by one of BW's top players: Lavos Spawn! (thanks lavos) Every team needs revision to become better and our team is no exception to that rule. So with these two experiences, think about these points so that we have a good idea where to take this team in the final round, the revision round (round 7)! Note: round 7 is after the stream.

  • Is the team built in a way so that our focus pokemon, Landorus-T, is functioning at its best?
  • What are problematic threats to the team (defensive or offensive) that we missed?
  • What kind of small tweaks can be made (moves, EV's, etc.) that could make the team better?
  • What is the best pokemon on the team? Correspondingly, which one is the worse?
  • What would be your own "personal flair" that you would add to the team?
1k viewers i take my shirt off (and quickly lose all my viewers)
 
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Lavos

Banned deucer.
that frog creeps the shit out of me im not doing it if hes watching

also who the fuck voted for scizor? team is swept by keldeo
 

Lavos

Banned deucer.
sorry let me expand on those thoughts without hurting anyone's feelings

i think the team is a very average display of keldeo era offense. it has several sweepers but no true carry, several bulky pokemon but no actual tank, and doesn't have a single teammate that can outrun a durant yet foregoes a paralysis spreader in favor of more offense. it's the classic example of a team with an excellent concept behind it that probably won't succeed in real games. quite frankly, the team is too slow to duel against hyper offense and too frail to hold its ground against stall. i don't envision the team doing very well once i ladder out of the <1700 slums.

someone mentioned earlier that they'd like to know what i would have done to make this team better. i never would have gone for such a slow pokemon in dragonite when we already had 4 pokemon slower than latios, a key speed benchmark for offensive teams. instead, i would have picked life orb latios over dragonite, and closed the team out with a scarf keldeo. this lets me duel against offensive teams well, tearing up slower pokemon with latios and outrunning the faster ones with keldeo. scarf latios is irrelevant since jirachi. and then against stall, i prioritize keeping jirachi alive while getting all the opponent's pokemon around 50% health. from there, jirachi's utility should be able to clean stall up with a couple flinches to aid me.

in summary, dragonite with no spinner plus mixrachi with no scarfer is suicidal. i'll be sure to give it my best shot tomorrow though!
 

PDC

street spirit fade out
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Four-Time Past WCoP Champion
Siding with Lavos here completely. This team has a lot of trouble with Keldeo, as it can run through our team pretty badly, Rotom-W really isn't an amazing counter either, especially considering lack of Leftovers recovery. I would also really like to see LeadChomp > LeadTerrak as I don't really feel Terrakion is the best Pokemon to use here. LeadChomp is just really good and does a lot more than Terrakion does, a fast Taunt is nice but Garchomp can just do so much more. It handles almost all weather leads better than Terrakion does, has a better ability in Rough Skin, is a bit stronger, and will do a lot better against Sun teams in general. I think Lavos is right about the Scarfer, but i'm not too sure if I would instantly go with Keldeo, although it is really good. Scizor was kind of just pulled out of a hat because of the extra steel resistance and priority, and I don't think it fits the team really.
 
Because I won't be present for the stream, I post my version of the CCAT Team.

Forretress @ Custap Berry
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Explosion

Scizor @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 28 SAtk / 232 SDef
Calm Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest

Jirachi @ Expert Belt
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 142 Atk / 252 SAtk / 116 Spd
Rash Nature
- Fire Punch
- Grass Knot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Garchomp (F) @ Dragon Gem
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
Rash Nature
- Swords Dance
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge


Firstly, I've changed the Lando-T EV's spread to outspeed 264 speed Venusaur in sun after Rock Polish.

I've also changed the LureRachi moveset to OHKO Lando-T, Gliscor, Breloom, Skarmory, Gyarados,.. And 2HKO Ferrothorn and Hippowdon, btw I used Jirachi without Iron Head, don't think this move is useful here.
265 speed is sufficiency imo.

I've used Forry custap lead because we want to set up SR and spikes. I don't use Skarmory because Explosion is more funny.

ChestoRest Rotom-W like the original team.

CB Scizor with some speed investissement to outspeed 4 speed Politoed and hit them with U-turn, and I need it to TrapKill Latios.

Finally, there is Garchomp (SPECIAL THANKS TO KFC_MAN), in an original move set.

252+ SpA Dragon Gem Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 354-417 (84.28 - 99.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Dragon Gem Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 345-406 (97.45 - 114.68%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Dragon Gem Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 327-385 (88.61 - 104.33%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 224 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 278-328 (85.01 - 100.3%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 316-376 (89.77 - 106.81%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO


As you can see, Garchomp can lure and kill some of the counters of Lando-T DB, and more.

I know there is still a problem with Keldeo (but maybe he will be ban soonly).

The better replacement I see is Jirachi but I don't know who can replace it.
 

Lavos

Banned deucer.
if youre noticing weird shit on my stream this is me testing out the program i just downloaded

3 people got some good laughs
 

Lavos

Banned deucer.
starting stream now, won't do actual battles until 6 pm est but yeah if you want to ask me questions or something before i get started then head over to twitch.tv/lavostream
 
Okay just a few nitpicks with the team that would make the team a fair bit better while keeping the double dance Landorus-T theme...

-First and foremost, Landorus-T's EVs are Suboptimal for the set. 265 speed to outspeed Toxicroak (who shits on this team btw), and as previously mentioned Venusaur, is pretty important.

-Second, Jirachi without Ebelt hits weak as piss, so replace that over leftovers. Also hitting 300 speed is worthless since the only thing you outspeed is neutral base 100s. How far do you want to speed creep? Might as well go to 310 for Jolly lando-T, otherwise 290 with +SpA nature will fit the teams needs just fine.

-Next, and perhaps most important, remove SD on Terrakion and give it taunt.

-Extremespeed over roost on Dnite, and for goodness sake hit at least 254 speed for Modest heatran, and +Nature Base 65s like Scizor.

-What is this scizor trying to even outspeed? 210 speed is worthless unless you REALLY wanna speed creep minspeed Rotom-W (who by the way is trending for 263+ speed). 248 HP 8Spdef is far superior for the bulk (like not getting ohkoed by LO latios surf in rain). If you wanna speed creep, 48 Speed is just fine for Neutral Base 70s like Politoed. Even so, CB scizor doesn't feel right for this team, and Scarfed scizor would actually have good merit
 

PDC

street spirit fade out
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Four-Time Past WCoP Champion
Alright, I think i'm going to rate this team and try and improve it the best I can for round 7, I will be making multiple changes which hopefully others can build upon as well.

First off I will be detailing all of our threats and problems that the team has. For starters, how we built the team was a bit flawed as it is, the team overall is way to focused on some sort of type-synergy outside of a few selections, and the team itself is a bit weak to a lot of big threats in general. For one, the team is very Sun weak. Not only does Landorus-T not manage to outrun standard Venusaur in the Sun, which otherwise would definitely go to work against most sun teams, but the rest of the team in general is rather weak to it among other sun sweepers. Dragonite is pretty cool as a sun counter, but it still will have a lot of trouble against Sun due to the power Venusaur has, which at +2 can take out most Dragonite with Sludge Bomb. Lavos has a lot of trouble with Sun in the stream to begin with, and it is obvious that it is a problem for the team. The main reason I liked Latias over Dragonite was because it had the extra Special Defense needed to handle some Sun threats, which was a very nice comfort. Rotom-W is complete setup bait to Venusaur, and even Volcorona because of how weak it is under Sun. Outside of that, SpecsLatios tears us apart Pokemon by Pokemon. Jirachi is far to frail to consistently take Specs Draco Meteors, and Rotom-W is just bait to get switched into, and even with strong Special Defense it will fall pretty quickly. Hell, any strong dragon can tear holes in our team very badly.

To fix part of this (hopefully) I have made a few changes to the team. For my edits, I have changed LeadTerrakion into a SashLeadChomp, which helps us do a little better against standard Sun teams. Garchomp, as expressed by both me and Lavos, would probably be the most logical replacement for Terrakion. Not only is it better at wall-breaking than Terrakion is, but it does much better against in general Sun. Garchomp can easily fend off Sun from the very start, and it definitely will help support the team much better. Obviously I am talking about the Stealth Rock Lead set, although a more modified Adamant version that increases strength. Garchomp does very well against any weather, and I feel it would help the team a lot more. Terrakion was just a more poor decision and it really didn't add anything outside of an immediate Stealth Rock user which didn't really offer much else. Another edit I would make to the team is my original suggestion of Latias > Dragonite. Dragonite is a pretty cool lure to Skarmory and friends, but really it doesn't add too much to the team, and a secondary lure isn't exactly helping us too much. Latias may be Pursuit bait in some cases, but it definitely does do better in my opinion than Dragonite in checking multiple threats. It checks Keldeo, Terrakion, Starmie (to an extent), Rotom-W, and Thundurus-T much better than Dragonite does, and Pursuit honestly isn't the biggest concern we have.

Another few nitpicks is the adjustment of Rotom-W. To be perfectly honest, I hate using it a lot. Rotom-W is not a bad wall but in my opinion it could be adjusted or changed for the better. I would go for Thunder Wave > Will-O-Wisp to be honest as this way you can actually beat Volcorona, which would become a bigger problem if we switched to Latias. Another adjustment that I could definitely do is trying out Gastrodon > Rotom-W possibly, as it can check the variety of the things Rotom-W checks, but only do it a bit better. This includes bulky waters like Starmie, opposing Rotom-W, and Thundurus-T.
 

TGMD

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Very sorry to everyone for how late this is, both doughboy and I have been rather busy and we've been trying to decide what we're actually going to do for this round.

Round 7 Submissions begin!

That's right... There's a round 7! This'll basically function the same way as any normal round; people will submit stuff, and then vote at the end. However, obviously this time people will be submitting changes to the full team rather than new Pokemon, because, in case you didn't know, you can only have 6 Pokemon per team xD.

IMPORTANT: YOU CAN REPLACE POKEMON! This round is usually just set changes, however this time the team got a little messed up in the later rounds and we'd rather do things a little differently and make the team substantially better than let it stay in its current condition. You're allowed to suggest we replace 2 Pokemon. However, if you do so those 2 Pokemon will be grouped and people will vote on whether they want both Pokemon in the team or not. Basically, either both your suggestions will be accepted or neither of them will. However, a maximum of 2 Pokemon can be replaced at the end of the round. We're trying to put on the finishing touches here, not make a brand new team. If 2 seperate Pokemon submissions are the most popular, we'll decide whether or not the 2 are actually "compatible" before blindly chucking them into the team. This doesn't apply to minor changes, you may submit as many as you want (within reason, and silly ones will be ignored) and they'll all be separate.

Voting will also work a little differently, at the end of the round all the suggested changes will be posted, and you must vote yes, no or abstain on all of them. A super majority will likely be needed for a submission to be accepted (more details on this will be revealed when it's time to actually do the voting!)

If you ignore the above paragraphs your submission will be ignored.

Rules / Reminders:
  • Submissions end 5 days from now at 8:00 PM GMT -5.
  • There are no more slashes on Pokemon sets. Different slashes can take a team in different directions.
  • You must specify what you're actually changing. If you want to suggest we use Starmie over Scizor, then actually say you want to replace Scizor in your submission. Submissions that fail to do so will be ignored.
  • Refer back to the OP for the main rules, format, and reminders.
  • When you submit your change, think about how it's actually improving the team.
  • Don't just let submissions be the only contribution to this round!
  • The team is now in the OP. Sets are on the bottom of the OP.
 
I would also like to point that since double dance Landorus-T is the concept of this CCAT, we should aim to try to preserve that set. Nature, certain items, and EV's changes are all good on Landorus-T.

my submission comming soon
 

ShootingStarmie

Bulletproof
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Right, I'm not going to suggest much, but we need to give Landorus-T 12 more speed EVs. During Lavos Spawn's stream, it was out speed by standard Venusaur at +2 and lost him the match iirc. Erm, Lead Garchomp is much better than Lead Terrakion in this metagame, so I'm going to suggest that we replace Terrakion with Garchomp. I don't think Dragonite + Rotom-W is enough for Rain teams, as Dragonite is worn down very quickly with no spinner + LO recoil. Speaking of Dragonite, I don't think Lavos had much success with it, as it didn't really do that well in wall breaking. I think this slot could be used more effectively. And finally, we have no revenge killer or Choice Scarfer, meaning we easily get swept by something like +1 Volcarona, +1 Dragonite, +1 Gyarados, and other powerful set up sweepers. Maybe we could keep the same Pokemon but go a different route? Banded Dragonite is a great revenge killer with it's powerful Extreme Speed, and hits more than Scizor's Bullet Punch coverage wise, while I guess Scizor could act as a late game sweeper after Landorus-T / Jirachi have eliminated most of it's checks / counters. I still don't like the fact that we don't have a Choice Scarf Pokemon, but that's all I'll share for now. Hopefully we can make this into a great team!
 

Soul Fly

IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
is a Contributor Alumnus
Fix the goddamn speed of this team, everything is too damn slow considering this team isn't particularly meant for bulky offense/HO. Scizor's priority doesn't count
and fix/replace that completely useless Jirachi (HINT: u-turn, so it isn't complete heatran fodder). We really fucked this up with the last 3 submissions. Shame, and the last submission was bound sub-optimal because the best we could try at that point was to fix so many glaring holes left by the 5 members, so there wasn't any room to add new roles (there were some decent submissions but everyone decided to have a scizorgasm)
I'll try to figure out some first-aid submissions later. Or someone just save my work and get speed, spinner, and a scarfer, i'll probably vote for that.

PS: @ThePillsburyDoughBoy, can we resubmit old nominations as replacement?
 

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