I was the one who said Porygon-Z wasn't broken on that exact basis.
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np: UU - Rain Drops Keep Falling on my Head
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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Moltres, Swellow, Scarf Blaziken/Medicham/etc, Dugtrio, Uxie, uhhhhhh
And the trouble with Heracross's 4x weakness is that its a 4x weakness. I can stick HP Flying on anything and OHKO it. Don't try and bring HP Ice vs Rayquaza into this because Heracross doesn't have ExtremeSpeed (and Dragon Dance, and better coverage, etc). Salamence is a more appropriate example, but its OU so why would you bring that up anyway?
So this also includes Pokemon such as Rotom, Mismagius (lol), and basically anything else with a decent SpA stat.
Also why would you switch your check into Heracross without knowing it's set? That's stupid. That goes for basically every Pokemon (especially deadly Pokemon like Heracross and Blaziken).
While I foresee a "regular boot" with Heracross at the very least, I don't think it will fulfill everyone's expectations.
And base 85 Speed is still too slow. It is too slow for the same reasons Blaziken is too slow.
This.
Seriously imagine what a Heracross could do with Adamant Scarf Close Combat, nothing besides ghosts would be happy to handle that efficently unless people start over centralizng the metagame.
Using ghost types to beat a strong fighting move is over centralizing? I guess we better ban dragon types because only steels handle it efficiently.
There is a fine line between centralizing and simply adapting.
There is a fine line between centralizing and simply adapting.
Dragon types moves are far from common in UU, so you don't need to worry about that much.
Backing up this post before someone posts and says "over centralizing != broken, or else Scizor would be gone." Assuming Heracross even drops down, Adamant Scarf is enough to put it in BL alone - without SD Guts, Band, and Bulk Up. The pokes that take CCs: Moltres might be banned, Scyther has a bad sr weak, (CC 2hkos after sr...) and everything is hit f hard with a Scarf Megahorn.
Interesting no one has spoken of Bulk Up either - with a simple spread of 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Att Careful, Milotic's Surfs never break Hera's Subs and he can proceed to Bulk Up and become quite the wall with attacking power. You could also go more offensively with it while still keeping bulk with the spread in the analysis. imo it'd be a great Registeel/Milotic/"pivot wall" breaker - a staple that would stay on my teams, just like Sub/Bulk Up/Drain Punch Gallade did during that test.
But that wasn't the point of my post. Just like in medicine, you never really know you are sick until you see the symptoms. Over centralization is a symptom of brokenness. Just like sneezing doesn't tell you if you have a cold or not alone - a fever and such solidify your knowledge - neither does over centralization. When it comes with destroying all forms of stall and having two-to-none real counters (unlike Scizor) you can pretty easily diagnose the situation. Heracross is just too good for UU.
That's irrelevant, and a stupid scenario at that. Dragon types hit super effective on one type (and Dragons in most cases have been banned... Garchomp? Salamence discussion?) and Altaria isn't near the powerhouse needed to exploit a type with pretty much no super effective type matchups in this metagame. With your argument I could basically say the same thing about normal types...
Fighting on the other hand is one of the best attacking types in the metagame. It's a wonder ScarfPrimape and ScarfLee don't get more use, and it's because ghost types keep them in check. The difference is that they can't come back and hit thosts with a STAB Megahorn to the face.
Adaption isn't possible against Heracross.
Weezing, Nidoqueen, Uxie, Mesprit, etc....
Yea just ghosts and Moltres, Slowbro, Uxie, Mesprit, Scyther, Venusaur, and other Heracross.
Its weak to Fire, Flying, and Psyichic (I think I spelled that wrong) which are fairly common attacking types. Its also weak to spikes and neutral to SR which are quite common. It speed ties with Nidoking, Qwilfish and Toxicroak, which pretty much forces it to run a +spe nature to keep up. It has no priority at all which is probably a leading factor to why it is not popular in the OU metagame which is dominated by priority. It is outsped by 17 pokemon in the UU tier. (Soon to be 14-17 depending on what gets banned). Its usefulness is basically going to be the same as it is in OU. Come in, kill a few things, then die. Its meant to be a stallbreaker. And lets be honest, stall is far too dominant in UU, which is the main reason I don't play it. In my sig, Jabba clearly was on to something when discussing how stallish UU is becoming. People are trying to get rid of anything that has the ability to break stall or hinders their walls in any way. Granted Raikou is a bit overpowered and I agree with that, but I don't see why anything else is other than the fact that "it breakz mah wallz-ban!" Quite frankly, I feel a diverse metagame is a good metagame, and UU right now is not very diverse.
Well actually, my only beef with of those fighting types (besides being walled by ghosts) is their fraility. Heracross can actually take a good amount of hits on both sides of the spectrum.
On the case of Primeape, i've used with decent success but I found that it wasn't strong enough for UU.
(CB Hitmonlee is killer, 2HKO's pretty much everything in UU, OHKO's mosts ghosts with Stone edge ec)
you can be outright swept by it when the moment arises.
There's almost no way that Heracross will fare the same as it had done in OU. 120 base power off of 125 base Attack practically means auto-celebrity in UU. (Don't bother listing exceptions because eww that's not the point.)
True. But with Hitmonlee you can always lead off with Stone Edge to catch Moltres and Ghosts who might wall you. CB Lee is so immensely powerful CC 2HKO's tankterra. (as in 252 Def / 252 HP)
I completely agree with this. UU is still that tier where you can use a boatload of pokemon and do *decently* well.
Edit: Anyone realize that Heracross would be the ideal UU pokemon? Excellent stats (above average in nearly every stat but special attack) it's a bulky fighter who can take hits and dish them out.
If I were to be a pokemon I would want those stats.
Why does everyone resort to using such random obscure shit to beat stall? Why don't you just join the dark side yourself? Milotic + Electric/Grass resistant phazer is enough to stop any setups. There are some fairly good spikers out there, and Chansey, Umbreon, and Milotic are insane walls. In general offensive mons are so weak compared to defensive mons. Stall gets even better when you recognize that a lot of the wall breakers are slower than the walls unless they use max speed.
Speaking of Sub Punch Ampharos, I was almost beaten by that the other day. I can't trick it with Rotom and Chansey was faster than it so I couldn't prevent it from subbing. Nearly beat me.
bad ass' Eggy set was pretty scary. It did 41% to Chansey, and Venusaur, which is usually the Grass absorber for teams, is scared to death of Psychic, so you can just spam away. The speed is definitely a problem against offense though.
Speaking of Sub Punch Ampharos, I was almost beaten by that the other day. I can't trick it with Rotom and Chansey was faster than it so I couldn't prevent it from subbing. Nearly beat me.
bad ass' Eggy set was pretty scary. It did 41% to Chansey, and Venusaur, which is usually the Grass absorber for teams, is scared to death of Psychic, so you can just spam away. The speed is definitely a problem against offense though.
That was probably me. (Or that dude/dudette who owned me with Ampharos initially >_>)
It's really awesome you guys, you should totally try it. (Although Synre has given reasons as to why it's bad... valid one's too. Still use it for the surprise factor)
Obscure shit like what?
And because some people prefer exciting matches and not drone sleepy boring tedious matches. Good stall vs good stall = whoever had more sleep the night before / has access to more coffee.
I sure hope we've realized that, we've been talking about it for like 5 pages lol
Priceless. Definitely going to be my new signature. An excellent Stall breaker is NP Toxicroak. I used to use NP Chu for stall but NP Toxicroak is a lot better. He takes on Stall like a Champ, literally switching into many stalls commodities (surf, toxic, grass types etc) and wrecking things.
Toxicroak
EVs:252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Nature: Timid
~Nasty plot
~Focus Blast
~Sludge Bomb
~Hidden power Ice
you single handily take down most (if not all) of stall's common walls with this set.
I mean as a pokemon stat wise. It's nearly *perfect* statistically.
Normally, I don't agree with everything you say, actually very little. But that is absolutely correct. Stall v Stall, believe it or else, makes some people not want to play because a 30 minute ladder match is ass boring.
Chansey and Registeel vs Chansey and Registeel!
Place your bets!
If it was the specs registeel I ran into today I'd say Chansey. On the other hand if it were the Hammer Arm Registeel I ran into...
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