Same thing happens to P-z
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np: UU - Can't Touch This
- Thread starter reachzero
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1. Nearly every single person complained about Scarf, not SubPlot.
2. Walled by every single Steel-type. Setup-fodder for Aggron.
I wrote my paragraph about the bulky plotter. Steels that hurt it can be taken out be taken out by Dugtrio way too easily. And the bulkier ones like Registeel are just set up bait. I've usually just used them to set up to +4 or +6 and 2HKO them and sweep the rest of the team. The bulky plotter really just needs Dugtrio/Pursuit support to be pretty unstoppable.
Some calcs (Banded 252 Atk Adamant Slaking):
(A neutral Giga Impact does more than a SE Elemental Punch/Pursuit/EQ, so other attacks are only useful for Pokemon that resist Slaking's STAB. In fact, a NVE Giga Impact does more damage than neutral Elemental Punch)
EQ vs 252/0 Registeel: 80.8% - 95.6%
EQ vs 136/0 Rhyperior: 61.7% - 72.8%
EQ vs 252/0 Steelix: 63.8% - 75.7%
EQ vs 252/0 Regirock: 62.1% - 73.6%
EQ vs 244/0 Spiritomb: 65.2% - 76.8%
EQ vs 252/252+ Aggron: 115.1% - 136%
EQ vs 252/252+ Kabutops: 122.4% - 144.5%
EQ vs 252/176+ Omastar: 79.1% - 93.6%
GI vs 252/252+ Blastoise: 93.6% - 110.5%
GI vs 252/252+ Cress: 67.1% - 79.3%
GI vs 52/204 Donphan: 101.5% - 119.8%
GI vs 252/252+ Weezing: 89.2% - 105.4%
GI vs 252/252+ Uxie: 79.7% - 94.1%
GI vs 252/252+ Drapion: 92.4% - 109%
GI vs 252/228+ Tangrowth: 73% - 86.1%
GI vs 252/200 Altaria: 117.8% - 139%
GI vs 252/144+ Claydol: 110.5% - 130.6%
GI vs 252/4+ Cloyster: 83.9% - 99%
GI vs 80/252+ Hariyama: 103.1% - 121.6%
GI vs 252/0 Mesprit: 123.9% - 146.2%
Pursuit vs 252/0 Rotom: 137.5% - 161.8% (switching out)
Shadow Claw vs 252/0 Rotom: 119.7% - 141.4%
Pursuit vs 12/252 Drifblim: 95% - 112.2% (switching out)
Shadow Claw vs 12/252: 83.3% - 98.2%
Pursuit vs 252/6+ Froslass: 118.6% - 140.1% (switching out)
Shadow Claw vs 252/6+ Froslass: 104.1% - 122.7%
I know the extra Truant turn and GI charging turn make it an inferior choice, but if your team has trouble with stall teams using Slaking will certainly pay off. Literally everything gets at least 2HKO'd.
With a Scarf Slaking doesn't have the raw power the Banded one does, but will pick off offensive threats like non-Sub Raikou, Moltres, etc with ease. On Scarfed versions Return is probably a better choice.
(A neutral Giga Impact does more than a SE Elemental Punch/Pursuit/EQ, so other attacks are only useful for Pokemon that resist Slaking's STAB. In fact, a NVE Giga Impact does more damage than neutral Elemental Punch)
EQ vs 252/0 Registeel: 80.8% - 95.6%
EQ vs 136/0 Rhyperior: 61.7% - 72.8%
EQ vs 252/0 Steelix: 63.8% - 75.7%
EQ vs 252/0 Regirock: 62.1% - 73.6%
EQ vs 244/0 Spiritomb: 65.2% - 76.8%
EQ vs 252/252+ Aggron: 115.1% - 136%
EQ vs 252/252+ Kabutops: 122.4% - 144.5%
EQ vs 252/176+ Omastar: 79.1% - 93.6%
GI vs 252/252+ Blastoise: 93.6% - 110.5%
GI vs 252/252+ Cress: 67.1% - 79.3%
GI vs 52/204 Donphan: 101.5% - 119.8%
GI vs 252/252+ Weezing: 89.2% - 105.4%
GI vs 252/252+ Uxie: 79.7% - 94.1%
GI vs 252/252+ Drapion: 92.4% - 109%
GI vs 252/228+ Tangrowth: 73% - 86.1%
GI vs 252/200 Altaria: 117.8% - 139%
GI vs 252/144+ Claydol: 110.5% - 130.6%
GI vs 252/4+ Cloyster: 83.9% - 99%
GI vs 80/252+ Hariyama: 103.1% - 121.6%
GI vs 252/0 Mesprit: 123.9% - 146.2%
Pursuit vs 252/0 Rotom: 137.5% - 161.8% (switching out)
Shadow Claw vs 252/0 Rotom: 119.7% - 141.4%
Pursuit vs 12/252 Drifblim: 95% - 112.2% (switching out)
Shadow Claw vs 12/252: 83.3% - 98.2%
Pursuit vs 252/6+ Froslass: 118.6% - 140.1% (switching out)
Shadow Claw vs 252/6+ Froslass: 104.1% - 122.7%
I know the extra Truant turn and GI charging turn make it an inferior choice, but if your team has trouble with stall teams using Slaking will certainly pay off. Literally everything gets at least 2HKO'd.
With a Scarf Slaking doesn't have the raw power the Banded one does, but will pick off offensive threats like non-Sub Raikou, Moltres, etc with ease. On Scarfed versions Return is probably a better choice.
The same could be said for almost any other special sweeper. With Dugtrio and Pursuit support to take out Chansey and Registeel, any powerful special attacker can have a field day with the opponent. What does Porygon-Z have over Alakazam or Mismagius? They both have better Speed, and Alakazam has equal Special Attack, while Mismagius has less Special Attack, but better type coverage.
PZ has a much better movepool than both and better offensive abilities. Alakazam is bigger pursuit bait and cant take out most of the common pursuiters and being extremely weak to priority. Mismagius and PZ play differently from one another. Misamgius utilizes her typing, ability, and special bulk. While PZ uses movepool, STAB, and sheer power to sweep. And also PZ is a huge threat off the bat with a choice, while choice alakazam and mismagius is a huge risk being pursuit weak. Not saying PZ isnt pursuit weak, but he can at least switch out at least once and also pursuiters dont want to stay in because PZ still threatens them bar spiritomb.
True about sub, but everyone can use sub. Alakazam can use sub, but that doesnt stop them being pursuited. As they are still KOed by pursuit even if they dont switch (mismagius has a chance to survive, depends on who is doing the pursuit and Mismagius needs to be at full health). But if the sweeper flees behind the sub, then the pursuiter still did its just by scaring off the sweeper.
PZ doesnt always have to be limited to two moves, but with his abilities it compliments him to only have two moves allowing him to freely fire off tri attack with just another move to support...he can effectively use choice moves better than alakazam and mismagius
PZ doesnt always have to be limited to two moves, but with his abilities it compliments him to only have two moves allowing him to freely fire off tri attack with just another move to support...he can effectively use choice moves better than alakazam and mismagius
With another move to complement Tri Attack means Dark Pulse, a.k.a. setup-fodder for Aggron. Or walled by Steelix and Registeel. And he is limited to two moves if he uses SubPlot, which is what you were talking about.
And the sub protects them from being KO'd by Pursuit on the switch, correct?
And the sub protects them from being KO'd by Pursuit on the switch, correct?
If you're worried about coverage with the SubPlot set you should use HP Water... only resisted by Shedinja.
Difference being that everything that can beat Sub/NP/Tri Attack/Dark Pulse set loses to Dugtrio (Alakazam and Mismagius both lose to Spiritomb, Clefable, who don't get trapped and killed by Dugtrio; Porygonz can easily set up on these and Ko them with Tri Attack or Dark Pulse). Poygonz can turn some of those (Registeel, and Chansey mainly)into set up bait with decent prediction. Porygonz can take a random hit if its sub isn't up. Porygonz gets Nasty Plot, so one turn of free set up is a lot more dangerous than a Calm Minder.
Listen, this is just a call out to would be voters:
Please vote on pokemon you feel strongly about. Don't assume that "it'll be booted anyway". Look at what happened with Froslass and Raikou. So please people, write paragraphs on (especially) Cresselia, Froslass, and whatever you think is broken.
Thanks.
Please vote on pokemon you feel strongly about. Don't assume that "it'll be booted anyway". Look at what happened with Froslass and Raikou. So please people, write paragraphs on (especially) Cresselia, Froslass, and whatever you think is broken.
Thanks.
You and your salt, whistle.
But honestly, I think it's more surprising Raikou is a suspect this period than that either of them were voted UU last period. As much as I probably would have voted lass BL this period it's a case that is right on the edge, and Raikou was far from dominant both last period and this period. I think he was a little better off then, though, since Gallade and Honchkrow opened up the metagame a bit to be more offensively orienteded and helped weaken and/or remove a lot of Raikou's checks... things are harder for him now.
I really wonder what type of game most of you are playing to nominate Raikou and Moltres this period. I think Moltres as a suspect would have made sense the last two periods - it was certainly dominant in games then - but team this period handle it better than they ever have before... and NOW it gets the nomination? I just don't understand the logic.
I'm kinda surprised Raikou got a repeat, too. I don't even remember the last time I've seen a Raikou sweep. I don't even see that many people _trying_ to sweep with him anymore. I'm not sure if he's just gotten overshadowed by PZ in a way similar to how Moltres seems to have, or what, but it seems like it is just Roar keeping his popularity afloat right now. I suppose Rain helps check both of them on some level...
People who pull the "try to support self with alt account" thing are hilarious, don't you think?whistle said:
1. Mismagius gets Nasty Plot also.
2. Porygon-Z can't exactly set up on Spiritomb as easily as you put it.
3. Mismagius beats Chansey and Clefable due to not being hit by Seismic Toss.
4. Porygon-Z cannot set up on them without getting its sub broken from Seismic Toss. If it has no sub it takes a bit less than a third of its HP.
5. Registeel fares much better against Porygon-Z than against Mismagius. Mismagius can hit it with HP Fighting, while Registeel's Iron Head actually out powers Porygon-Z's +2 Tri Attack
1. PZ has a MUCH higer special attack that makes nasty plot more scary coming from PZ.
2. Alot easier than Mismagius can lol
3. Mismagius beats chansey true, but not Clefable due to Encore
4.True that Seismic toss hurts, but they cannot afford to let PZ set up Nasty plot either.
5. PZ can hit with HP fighting too...and it is alot easier for registeel to deal with mismagius than PZ due to the special attack difference. And also PZ has higher defense stat than Mismagius.
all easily taken out by a pursuit user except for spiritomb...and that comes with the playstyle of using just Tri attack+HP fighting. No one is immediately going to sweep with just those two moves without extensive knowledge of their opponents team. The two attack moves combo is used for late-game. So if you are really thinking about sweeping mid-early game then yeah, you just screwed yourself over cause now your opponent is just going to make sure their ghost is alive so that they can stop PZ. Also what Delko said, PZ doesnt always have to run sub on the Nasty plot set it can just run a full all out attack. lol overall point is that PZ is a much better sweeper than any other special sweeper we have in this metagame and it is extremely hard to compare PZ to other special sweepers can he can do their job, just even better. heh however their is always some uniqueness to every special sweeper that makes them different.
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