if i'm not mistaken, mega also after switching, but mega tyranitar transform before pursuit and before switching
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Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter R8
- Start date
Yh cuz ppl don't really know how Tera works with Pursuit. We know how Tera works with megas
I feel like Gholdengo is suspect worthy. It's much more powerful in natdex than OU, and it's already put on a tour-de-force in OU and doubles.
The main set is:
Gholdengo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Steel
IVs: 0 Atk
- Make It Rain
- Nasty Plot
- Recover
- Trick
Specs MIR Gholdengo has incredible immediate power, it is capable of 2HKO even bulky neutrals like Arceus (120/120/120) and 2HKOing resists, like Ceruledge (75/80/100). If a Pokemon doesn't outspeed Gholdengo and is at <50% health, it is dead. But Trick forces 50/50's favoring the Gholdengo player, where anything that could eat a specs MIR likely does not want to be trick'd choice specs. The vast majority of natdex does not like choice specs; this goes for all physical attackers, virtually all defensive Pokemon, and even some special attackers like Magearna.
Magearna bears mentioning at this Gholdengo set checks the Stored Power, tera Fairy Magearna set. Once Magearna is tricked specs she can only spam moves that Gholdengo resists, while Gholdengo can boost and heal off the damage. If Magearna has not alredy tera'd into Fairy, she won't, as it all but guarantees the OHKO even with some CM boosts up. This forces the Magearna player into a suboptimal tera if they're not already on it.
Shadow Ball isn't necessary and might even be undesirable. Shadow Ball is much weaker and allows Ditto to easily countersweep, with Normal types like Mega Lopunny immune to Shadow Ball. MIR has no resists, and anything that does resist it can be boosted past or simply chunked while under specs. Scarf Ditto that transforms into this is basically screwed, as the only attacking move is the resisted MIR (which drops in power), Gholdengo is immune to Trick, the other moves are useless on scarf and specs Gholdengo will always do more damage.
A lot of what I say here sounds like it could easily apply to Gen 8 Calyrex-Shadow in Ubers/AG, but the distinction is Calyrex-Shadow had an awful defensive typing and basically no way of switching in to attacks. Calyrex-S's ability also did not offer any immediate offensive/defensive value. Gholdengo by contrast has arguably the best defensive typing in the game in Ghost/Dark, with 9 resistances and 3 immunities.
It also has the ridiculously OP Good as Gold, meaning it can not only switch into resists but predicted status moves. Good as Gold is an incredible ability on a Pokemon with this typing, movepool and spread, ass it means Gholdengo is not only immune to Trick but Taunt, meaning there's no stopping it boosting with Nasty Plot or healing unless staring down Mega Gyarados.
In practice, I've found that the best Gholdengo checks end up being stuff that not only resist Steel, but can attack it neutrally, usually Water/Electric type attacks. This is because Dark, Ghost, and Ground don't resist Steel, while Dark/Ghost types trying to hit it for STAB SE damage risk the script getting flipped with a tera Steel. Rocks-weak Fire types like Moltres or Volcarona, while not hating specs, do hate losing HDB as they can no longer effectively Roost or Defog if rocks are up.
Megas also tend to be solid checks as they force out a Gholdengo locked into Trick, but most Megas do not like specs MIR. Mega Latios for example is OHKO'd switching in, even if it's already Mega Evolved. Neither do special attackers like Hydreigon that risk getting OHKO'd. Toxapex, Ferrothorn, and to a lesser extent Heatran do not care for trick. Lando-T, Hippowdown and Great Tusk do not like anything Gholdengo clicks.
Mega Swampert under rain is probably the sturdiest check, as uninvested specs MIR is but a 3HKO. But keep that in mind. An already Mega Evolved, 100/110/110 bulky resist is but a 3HKO, and Gholdengo can be EV'd to create a range of different scenarios that let it check Mega Swampert. Not that it would want to be EV'd for this situational matchup, but it could. That's how flexible it is.
I played a lot of Gen 8 natdex and the mon I can remember that was this devastating effect on the dex with one attacking move was Dracovish. Vish had 3 primary sets, Jolly Scarf, Adamant Scarf, and Adamant Band w/webs. The scarf sets let it pick what fast offensive threat it wanted to OHKO: Jolly allowed OHKO's on Mega Lopunny and Tornadus-T, while Adamant was the most generally useful against slow and fast threats at the expense of missing the top end of high speed Pokemon. Band was simply an unstoppable immediate wallbreaker.
Gholdengo checks so much more that Vish, effortlessly, and without needing to be as predictable. You always knew Vish's spread, regardless of nature or item. But Gholdengo's spread has to be determined at team PV and even that's a 50/50. You have no idea if Gholdengo is supposed to be a lure for physical or special attackers. It can screw over switches with Trick or simply destroy them with MIR. Once it's swapped items to something like Rocky Helmet, LO or Leftovers, counterplay changes again. It can recover off damage and boost in front of a passive Pokemon thanks to Good as Gold that protects it from status. Thunder Wave and Glare can't paralyze it, Whirlwind and Roar can't phaze it. Did I mention Trick reveals a lot of information about what roles the opponent has their Pokemon filling?
Oh, I've also checked the Z-Move Dragapult as well. Tera Steel and MIR the Dragapult for the OHKO. If doesn't matter if it uses Phantom Force or NEN. With some HP investment, one always resists and can kill it back. Physical defense investment is only necessary for survivng NEN at +1 after tera Steel.
Mega Aegislash, anyone?
The main set is:
Gholdengo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Steel
IVs: 0 Atk
- Make It Rain
- Nasty Plot
- Recover
- Trick
Specs MIR Gholdengo has incredible immediate power, it is capable of 2HKO even bulky neutrals like Arceus (120/120/120) and 2HKOing resists, like Ceruledge (75/80/100). If a Pokemon doesn't outspeed Gholdengo and is at <50% health, it is dead. But Trick forces 50/50's favoring the Gholdengo player, where anything that could eat a specs MIR likely does not want to be trick'd choice specs. The vast majority of natdex does not like choice specs; this goes for all physical attackers, virtually all defensive Pokemon, and even some special attackers like Magearna.
Magearna bears mentioning at this Gholdengo set checks the Stored Power, tera Fairy Magearna set. Once Magearna is tricked specs she can only spam moves that Gholdengo resists, while Gholdengo can boost and heal off the damage. If Magearna has not alredy tera'd into Fairy, she won't, as it all but guarantees the OHKO even with some CM boosts up. This forces the Magearna player into a suboptimal tera if they're not already on it.
Shadow Ball isn't necessary and might even be undesirable. Shadow Ball is much weaker and allows Ditto to easily countersweep, with Normal types like Mega Lopunny immune to Shadow Ball. MIR has no resists, and anything that does resist it can be boosted past or simply chunked while under specs. Scarf Ditto that transforms into this is basically screwed, as the only attacking move is the resisted MIR (which drops in power), Gholdengo is immune to Trick, the other moves are useless on scarf and specs Gholdengo will always do more damage.
A lot of what I say here sounds like it could easily apply to Gen 8 Calyrex-Shadow in Ubers/AG, but the distinction is Calyrex-Shadow had an awful defensive typing and basically no way of switching in to attacks. Calyrex-S's ability also did not offer any immediate offensive/defensive value. Gholdengo by contrast has arguably the best defensive typing in the game in Ghost/Dark, with 9 resistances and 3 immunities.
It also has the ridiculously OP Good as Gold, meaning it can not only switch into resists but predicted status moves. Good as Gold is an incredible ability on a Pokemon with this typing, movepool and spread, ass it means Gholdengo is not only immune to Trick but Taunt, meaning there's no stopping it boosting with Nasty Plot or healing unless staring down Mega Gyarados.
In practice, I've found that the best Gholdengo checks end up being stuff that not only resist Steel, but can attack it neutrally, usually Water/Electric type attacks. This is because Dark, Ghost, and Ground don't resist Steel, while Dark/Ghost types trying to hit it for STAB SE damage risk the script getting flipped with a tera Steel. Rocks-weak Fire types like Moltres or Volcarona, while not hating specs, do hate losing HDB as they can no longer effectively Roost or Defog if rocks are up.
Megas also tend to be solid checks as they force out a Gholdengo locked into Trick, but most Megas do not like specs MIR. Mega Latios for example is OHKO'd switching in, even if it's already Mega Evolved. Neither do special attackers like Hydreigon that risk getting OHKO'd. Toxapex, Ferrothorn, and to a lesser extent Heatran do not care for trick. Lando-T, Hippowdown and Great Tusk do not like anything Gholdengo clicks.
Mega Swampert under rain is probably the sturdiest check, as uninvested specs MIR is but a 3HKO. But keep that in mind. An already Mega Evolved, 100/110/110 bulky resist is but a 3HKO, and Gholdengo can be EV'd to create a range of different scenarios that let it check Mega Swampert. Not that it would want to be EV'd for this situational matchup, but it could. That's how flexible it is.
I played a lot of Gen 8 natdex and the mon I can remember that was this devastating effect on the dex with one attacking move was Dracovish. Vish had 3 primary sets, Jolly Scarf, Adamant Scarf, and Adamant Band w/webs. The scarf sets let it pick what fast offensive threat it wanted to OHKO: Jolly allowed OHKO's on Mega Lopunny and Tornadus-T, while Adamant was the most generally useful against slow and fast threats at the expense of missing the top end of high speed Pokemon. Band was simply an unstoppable immediate wallbreaker.
Gholdengo checks so much more that Vish, effortlessly, and without needing to be as predictable. You always knew Vish's spread, regardless of nature or item. But Gholdengo's spread has to be determined at team PV and even that's a 50/50. You have no idea if Gholdengo is supposed to be a lure for physical or special attackers. It can screw over switches with Trick or simply destroy them with MIR. Once it's swapped items to something like Rocky Helmet, LO or Leftovers, counterplay changes again. It can recover off damage and boost in front of a passive Pokemon thanks to Good as Gold that protects it from status. Thunder Wave and Glare can't paralyze it, Whirlwind and Roar can't phaze it. Did I mention Trick reveals a lot of information about what roles the opponent has their Pokemon filling?
Oh, I've also checked the Z-Move Dragapult as well. Tera Steel and MIR the Dragapult for the OHKO. If doesn't matter if it uses Phantom Force or NEN. With some HP investment, one always resists and can kill it back. Physical defense investment is only necessary for survivng NEN at +1 after tera Steel.
Mega Aegislash, anyone?
Me, Ryuji, and ong made a video on some Pokemon we think are at the top of the metagame right now. We also do some replay explanations and also play some games, so feel free to watch!
S/O to AVO Discord; as we recorded in that server! Join here: https://discord.gg/JCFTN8Sv
There's also some footage of Sulo in here as well, so shoutout to him!
Enjoy!
S/O to AVO Discord; as we recorded in that server! Join here: https://discord.gg/JCFTN8Sv
There's also some footage of Sulo in here as well, so shoutout to him!
Enjoy!
How do you guys feel with Floatzel in rain? Personality I'm feeling really hard to deal with it. I was playing a sand (MTar+Excadrill I mean) team with only Defensive Pex as water resistance, and was shocked by this new rain abuser's power. Tera water Wave Crash is really hard to switch into. As a compare, HJK from MMedicham (though it should be CC now lol) is about 130*2(ability)*1.5(STAB)=390, while this Water Blitz is about 120*2(TeraSTAB)*1.5(band)*1.5(rain)=540. This may be very common in the generation of Tera, but Floatzel is also a 115 speed Swift Swimmer...... With adamant it outspeed those 100s out of rain, and outspends +1 Dragapult in Rain.
Defensive plays hardly work, as traditional water resistances like Pet just can't hold it
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Rain: 148-175 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Latias-Mega: 158-186 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Fini&Dondozo can take two hits, but lacking recovery means they may be easily worn down by other breakers of rain team.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 216 Def Tapu Fini: 137-162 (39.8 - 47%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo in Rain: 181-214 (35.9 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Ferro may be a good solution, as it can consume much more HPs so Floatzel can be more easily revenged.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn in Rain: 165-195 (46.8 - 55.3%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Revenging such thing is also quite hard without priority moves, as common pokes without water resistant can't take one wave crash
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Zamazenta in Rain: 330-390 (101.5 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands in Rain: 520-614 (101.5 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scizor-Mega in Rain: 316-374 (92.1 - 109%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega in Rain: 306-362 (100.6 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(I know Sucker Punch can revenge, just randomly choosing some common bulky attackers lol)
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal in Rain: 408-482 (86 - 101.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(Mel is really a monster, but you still need some EVs to take the hit)
Water type also disables some common priority moves like Bullet Punch or Ice Shard, making it harder to be revenged.
I admit there are still many effective counterplays, like revenge it with Rotom-W's Volt Switch, Grass Glide, Sucker Punch from the big Bisharp or Chien-Pao, seed Hawlucha, ESpeed or even Water Absorb/Storm Drain, but this weasel is really very hard for balanced teams to handle XD.
Finally I put some calcs of the revengers. This is important as Floatzel loses its HP by Wave Crashing your team, and one should know at what time it can be killed by these priorities.
252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 158-187 (50.8 - 60.1%)
252+ Atk Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 210-247 (67.5 - 79.4%)
252 Atk Adaptability Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 234-276 (75.2 - 88.7%)
(I don't know why PS calculator doesn't consider Sword of Ruin, but Adaptability has roughly the same effect anyway)
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 233-275 (74.9 - 88.4%)
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 118-139 (37.9 - 44.6%)
(Remember Bullet Punch is half this damage)
252+ Atk Hawlucha Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 274-324 (88.1 - 104.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Floatzel: 74-87 (23.7 - 27.9%)
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Floatzel in Rain: 118-140 (37.9 - 45%)
Defensive plays hardly work, as traditional water resistances like Pet just can't hold it
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Rain: 148-175 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Latias-Mega: 158-186 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Fini&Dondozo can take two hits, but lacking recovery means they may be easily worn down by other breakers of rain team.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 216 Def Tapu Fini: 137-162 (39.8 - 47%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo in Rain: 181-214 (35.9 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Ferro may be a good solution, as it can consume much more HPs so Floatzel can be more easily revenged.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn in Rain: 165-195 (46.8 - 55.3%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Revenging such thing is also quite hard without priority moves, as common pokes without water resistant can't take one wave crash
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Zamazenta in Rain: 330-390 (101.5 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands in Rain: 520-614 (101.5 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scizor-Mega in Rain: 316-374 (92.1 - 109%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega in Rain: 306-362 (100.6 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(I know Sucker Punch can revenge, just randomly choosing some common bulky attackers lol)
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal in Rain: 408-482 (86 - 101.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(Mel is really a monster, but you still need some EVs to take the hit)
Water type also disables some common priority moves like Bullet Punch or Ice Shard, making it harder to be revenged.
I admit there are still many effective counterplays, like revenge it with Rotom-W's Volt Switch, Grass Glide, Sucker Punch from the big Bisharp or Chien-Pao, seed Hawlucha, ESpeed or even Water Absorb/Storm Drain, but this weasel is really very hard for balanced teams to handle XD.
Finally I put some calcs of the revengers. This is important as Floatzel loses its HP by Wave Crashing your team, and one should know at what time it can be killed by these priorities.
252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 158-187 (50.8 - 60.1%)
252+ Atk Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 210-247 (67.5 - 79.4%)
252 Atk Adaptability Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 234-276 (75.2 - 88.7%)
(I don't know why PS calculator doesn't consider Sword of Ruin, but Adaptability has roughly the same effect anyway)
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 233-275 (74.9 - 88.4%)
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 118-139 (37.9 - 44.6%)
(Remember Bullet Punch is half this damage)
252+ Atk Hawlucha Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 274-324 (88.1 - 104.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Floatzel: 74-87 (23.7 - 27.9%)
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Floatzel in Rain: 118-140 (37.9 - 45%)
Very bored, so I'll just write my thoughts about some Pokemon I think are cool.
Cinderace
Cinderace is a really good pivot still even with the Libero nerf, and I think it's some nice speed control and has Court Change, being able to swap hazards on the field without a Gholdengo coming in and ignoring your attempt to do so. Normalium Z + Swords Dance is a cool combo as well, as you just Swords Dance up and then just click Pyro Ball / Double Edge / Sucker Punch the opponent, and I think that the weird Work Up set from last generation with Electro Ball or Shadow Ball might work, as you 2HKO Dondozo with an Electro Ball and can do decent damage to Skeledirge with a Shadow Ball. Choice Band sounds like a very good set too, since you can take advantage of the Protean nerf and lock yourself into one move, and use strong moves like Pyro Ball and High Jump Kick, so overall a nice Pokemon right now and I would recommend using it!
Sandy Shocks
Sandy Shocks sports a nice STAB combo to abuse right now in Electric and Ground, and since no Grass types that resist it are running rampant, bar the niche Rillaboom and Tangrowth, I think it is a cool pick to use. It also possesses Stealth Rock and Spikes, and I've leaned towards the HDB pivot sets with Stealth Rocks, though I think sets like Choice Specs, 4 Attacks, and Suicide Lead are nice as well. It's a good thing we have a nice sun Pokemon in Mega Charizard Y here, as it pairs very well with Sandy Shocks, giving a Ground immunity and a way to touch Grass-types Sandy Shocks may have a problem with. Overall, its a underrated Pokemon to use, and I think its cool.
Arctozolt
Arctozolt is known for its amazing STAB combo and Bolt Beak, and with the addition of Snow boosting its Defense, I think it's an amazing Pokemon to use in Snow. There's been talk in the Discord about a core consisting of Arctozolt + Slowking, which I think is actually really good considering Slowking can switch into Iron Valiant, Skeledirge, and Zamazenta and Scald or use Future Sight, or can safely pivot with Chilly Reception into Arctozolt, which can cover Tapu Koko and Dragapult for it by virtue of Slush Rush, denting them both with a Blizzard. I've seen sets with items like HDB and Fightinium Z be used, and I've used it with a Shuca Berry and a Metronome to good success as well. Overall, its nice to see that Arctozolt still holds up, and it's pretty cool too!
Espathra
This Pokemon is so cheese; and I love it because of that! Stored Power is already crazy combined with Calm Mind + Speed Boost, and I've even seen some sets using Lumina Crash; Espathra's signature moves that lowers the opponent's Special Defense by 2 stages, which is also insane. It seems easy to revenge kill, but considering that they are invested in bulk more now and sometimes used with Electric Seed to boost its Defense, it is sort of a challenge to do so. Tera Fairy and Tera Fighting boost these traits even further, combined with Dazzling Gleam or Tera Blast respectively, making Espathra a very hard Pokemon to shut down outside of things like Heart Swap Magearna and strong revenge killers like Kingambit and Chien-Pao. Overall, Espathra is a Pokemon that can easily snowball out of control, and doesn't take much skill to use, but I think it's really nice in the meta right now.
All in all, I feel like these Pokemon are slept on and are cool, and I recommend trying them out here in National Dex. Thank you for reading, and I hope you have a nice day!
Cinderace
Cinderace is a really good pivot still even with the Libero nerf, and I think it's some nice speed control and has Court Change, being able to swap hazards on the field without a Gholdengo coming in and ignoring your attempt to do so. Normalium Z + Swords Dance is a cool combo as well, as you just Swords Dance up and then just click Pyro Ball / Double Edge / Sucker Punch the opponent, and I think that the weird Work Up set from last generation with Electro Ball or Shadow Ball might work, as you 2HKO Dondozo with an Electro Ball and can do decent damage to Skeledirge with a Shadow Ball. Choice Band sounds like a very good set too, since you can take advantage of the Protean nerf and lock yourself into one move, and use strong moves like Pyro Ball and High Jump Kick, so overall a nice Pokemon right now and I would recommend using it!
Sandy Shocks
Sandy Shocks sports a nice STAB combo to abuse right now in Electric and Ground, and since no Grass types that resist it are running rampant, bar the niche Rillaboom and Tangrowth, I think it is a cool pick to use. It also possesses Stealth Rock and Spikes, and I've leaned towards the HDB pivot sets with Stealth Rocks, though I think sets like Choice Specs, 4 Attacks, and Suicide Lead are nice as well. It's a good thing we have a nice sun Pokemon in Mega Charizard Y here, as it pairs very well with Sandy Shocks, giving a Ground immunity and a way to touch Grass-types Sandy Shocks may have a problem with. Overall, its a underrated Pokemon to use, and I think its cool.
Arctozolt
Arctozolt is known for its amazing STAB combo and Bolt Beak, and with the addition of Snow boosting its Defense, I think it's an amazing Pokemon to use in Snow. There's been talk in the Discord about a core consisting of Arctozolt + Slowking, which I think is actually really good considering Slowking can switch into Iron Valiant, Skeledirge, and Zamazenta and Scald or use Future Sight, or can safely pivot with Chilly Reception into Arctozolt, which can cover Tapu Koko and Dragapult for it by virtue of Slush Rush, denting them both with a Blizzard. I've seen sets with items like HDB and Fightinium Z be used, and I've used it with a Shuca Berry and a Metronome to good success as well. Overall, its nice to see that Arctozolt still holds up, and it's pretty cool too!
Espathra
This Pokemon is so cheese; and I love it because of that! Stored Power is already crazy combined with Calm Mind + Speed Boost, and I've even seen some sets using Lumina Crash; Espathra's signature moves that lowers the opponent's Special Defense by 2 stages, which is also insane. It seems easy to revenge kill, but considering that they are invested in bulk more now and sometimes used with Electric Seed to boost its Defense, it is sort of a challenge to do so. Tera Fairy and Tera Fighting boost these traits even further, combined with Dazzling Gleam or Tera Blast respectively, making Espathra a very hard Pokemon to shut down outside of things like Heart Swap Magearna and strong revenge killers like Kingambit and Chien-Pao. Overall, Espathra is a Pokemon that can easily snowball out of control, and doesn't take much skill to use, but I think it's really nice in the meta right now.
All in all, I feel like these Pokemon are slept on and are cool, and I recommend trying them out here in National Dex. Thank you for reading, and I hope you have a nice day!
What:a better for Mega Gallade? Close Combat or Sacred Sword?
Close Combat, as Mega Gallade does not have Sharpness to amplify Sacred Sword's power.
The big problem is the defense drop
Trust me, it is worth the increase in Base Power, as a wallbreaker.
How tf did y’all decide to vote on keeping Tera when this mfer and more are running around the tier?
Nah, this is not it.
You cannot possibly complain about the results of a vote if you did not show up and get reqs for it.
I do not like the result either, but I do not play National Dex and I would be silly to complain about it because of this. The people who actively play the tier and get reqs earn the right to make these decisions, and those who do not lose their right to complain.
If either one of you got reqs and voted ban, the verdict would have flipped for the whole metagame because of how close it is. Perhaps the lesson is to get reqs and vote next time rather than complaining about the people who took matters into their own hands.
I’m not calling people out for having negative opinions. Everyone is entitled to think what they want of the metagame; why do you think I burn hours of my time running surveys in my tiers? Empowering opinions is how our communities survive.
I’m calling them out for complaining about the vote in the specific fashion they did.
The vote rendered a legitimate result that was legitimately obtained. You can dislike the metagame without this. Don’t use a false equivalency to frame me as an elitist.
Don’t want to derail this thread as clearly there’s actual tiering discussion to be had, but that response couldn’t be ignored. Hope people can carry on and react to the metagame as it stands from here.
unfortunately even with a majority tera still barely stayed in the tier, and while im hoping this is an ace situation where it gets resuspected and banned, i dont think thats going to happen, and as some1 who did get reqs and who did vote (to ban), this was very dissapponting
a few stuff i see on the chopping block now are magearna (likely to go post tera regardless, but had a chance with our new developments and mon additions), dragapult, chien pao (also likely to if mage goes, but stays if it stays), dragonite, annihilape, espartha, hawlucha, gholdengo, melmetal, eleki, floatzel, barraskewda, volcarona, tapu lele
unfortunately, i dont see a way most of these mons stay, especially with the butchering in recovery for a lot of their usual counterplay and only having 1 tera to use defensively. a few mons which might go that ive been looking into are
torn, ace, kart, urshifu, and possibly a lot more cheese stuff down the line. i really hope theres another retest down the line considering how close the votes were and how it was still technically a majority (even though we go by super majority, idk irks me a bit that a majority of people think it should leave yet it was kept) even if nothing happens and we lose half the tier, at least we have gen 8 natdex!
woo
a few stuff i see on the chopping block now are magearna (likely to go post tera regardless, but had a chance with our new developments and mon additions), dragapult, chien pao (also likely to if mage goes, but stays if it stays), dragonite, annihilape, espartha, hawlucha, gholdengo, melmetal, eleki, floatzel, barraskewda, volcarona, tapu lele
unfortunately, i dont see a way most of these mons stay, especially with the butchering in recovery for a lot of their usual counterplay and only having 1 tera to use defensively. a few mons which might go that ive been looking into are
torn, ace, kart, urshifu, and possibly a lot more cheese stuff down the line. i really hope theres another retest down the line considering how close the votes were and how it was still technically a majority (even though we go by super majority, idk irks me a bit that a majority of people think it should leave yet it was kept) even if nothing happens and we lose half the tier, at least we have gen 8 natdex!
woo
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Tera is completely incompatible with Mega Pokemon. You're just unable to Terastallize a Mega, basically (I think this is a coding limitation because the "Mega Evolve" button and the "Terastallize" button are in the same area and it'd be ineffective to add another, not sure though).
Please avoid unconstructive one liners. I understand this can be a frustrating situation, but rules still stand. I've made an exception for simple questions but please be aware they should not posted here - there is a simple questions simple answer thread for these.
Happy posting
Happy posting
I do think not banning tera was a huge mistake, but considering it is here to stay we do need to look into a lot of Pokemon now. Adem has already pointed a few out that should be looked into which I mostly agree with, however I do think we should also consider looking into Drizzle or Damp Rock as a whole. With Tera here to stay Floatzel and Barraskewda become absolute terrors under rain, being able to outspeed and 2 hit KO basically everything. Sure the option could be to just ban those abusers but I do think others will simply take their place. Kingdra comes to mind as with tera water it can also 2 hit KO almost the entire tier, as well as non-swift swimmers like Urshifu. Honestly I could even see Keldeo make a return once the more blatantly powerful stuff gets banned.
If anything comes up in the future I hope Natdex council will look at other ideas of dealing with Tera. I personally like the options OU has given its player base and I think tera is not dyna tier broken. If anyone asks I really like Tera Captains after playing in draft league. Keeps the mechanic while letting the opponent know where its coming from :)
For those of you in the DNB camp, I am genuinely curious as to why you wanted the mechanic to stay. Much of the sentiment from the general ND community (this thread, PS! Room, Discord) has been dissappointment with the result, implying there’s a dsparity in the overall community and people who got reqs. I really do want to open a platform for these people for that reason.
As for my own view, I have to agree with adem above; it is very likely that most if not all of those mons are likely to be banned, and who knows what will come up to replace them. In an ideal world, I would just immediately resuspect Tera, but that seems unlikely. The best we can do is prove that Tera is the mark of an uncompetitive metagame by showing how it affects tours (like the winter seasonal, which you should sign up for), and trying to handle it from there. Anyway, here are some cool things It have been seeing and trying to experiment with:
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Punching Glove
Ability: Unseen Fist
Tera Type: Electric / Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Surging Strikes
- Close Combat
- Thunder Punch / Taunt / Aqua Jet
This is not a new set by any means, but I think it’s very slept on both on and off rain. Punching Glove means that nailing Pokemon like Garchomp is not as detrimental to your health and Slowbro/Toxapex are not free to pivot around you if they have Rocky Helmet. Additionally, a defensive typing that acts as a soft check to Chien Pao and Aqua Jet to shore up its matchups against offense lead me to think that, at least as an offensive Pokemon, Urshifu is better than Quaquaval.
Iron Valiant @ Expert Belt
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: idk
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Close Combat
- Knock Off / Thunderbolt
Mixed Valiant is better than sweeping sets on non-HO teams in my opinion. The wide coverage it offers is simply hard to outplay as many offensive and defensive Pokemon fall to it. 116 Speed is also fantastic for acting as a potent revenge killer for anything below base 110, so you always end up having options for things like Kartana, Garchomp, and non-Terad Annihilape. Overall, I think Valiant is a mon that feels underexplored but should absolutely be respected more.
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Explosion
I still think Landorus-T is the best HO suicide lead if you care about keeping Rocks and not sacking it, especially with Taunt now letting it stop Defog without Explosion. Glimmora is generally not a Pokemon I can gain much defensive utility out of, and Lando’s qualities as a defensive pivot are still potentially great for HO even in later stages in the game. Thus, while I think Glimmora can put in work against specific teams, I find Lando to be the more consistent option, granting Rocks and a potential setup oppurtunity where needed. Other Lando sets are still great by the way, they are just harder to fit due to the great amount of competition (Ting-Lu and Great Tusk come to mind).
As for my own view, I have to agree with adem above; it is very likely that most if not all of those mons are likely to be banned, and who knows what will come up to replace them. In an ideal world, I would just immediately resuspect Tera, but that seems unlikely. The best we can do is prove that Tera is the mark of an uncompetitive metagame by showing how it affects tours (like the winter seasonal, which you should sign up for), and trying to handle it from there. Anyway, here are some cool things It have been seeing and trying to experiment with:
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Punching Glove
Ability: Unseen Fist
Tera Type: Electric / Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Surging Strikes
- Close Combat
- Thunder Punch / Taunt / Aqua Jet
This is not a new set by any means, but I think it’s very slept on both on and off rain. Punching Glove means that nailing Pokemon like Garchomp is not as detrimental to your health and Slowbro/Toxapex are not free to pivot around you if they have Rocky Helmet. Additionally, a defensive typing that acts as a soft check to Chien Pao and Aqua Jet to shore up its matchups against offense lead me to think that, at least as an offensive Pokemon, Urshifu is better than Quaquaval.
Iron Valiant @ Expert Belt
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: idk
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Close Combat
- Knock Off / Thunderbolt
Mixed Valiant is better than sweeping sets on non-HO teams in my opinion. The wide coverage it offers is simply hard to outplay as many offensive and defensive Pokemon fall to it. 116 Speed is also fantastic for acting as a potent revenge killer for anything below base 110, so you always end up having options for things like Kartana, Garchomp, and non-Terad Annihilape. Overall, I think Valiant is a mon that feels underexplored but should absolutely be respected more.
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Explosion
I still think Landorus-T is the best HO suicide lead if you care about keeping Rocks and not sacking it, especially with Taunt now letting it stop Defog without Explosion. Glimmora is generally not a Pokemon I can gain much defensive utility out of, and Lando’s qualities as a defensive pivot are still potentially great for HO even in later stages in the game. Thus, while I think Glimmora can put in work against specific teams, I find Lando to be the more consistent option, granting Rocks and a potential setup oppurtunity where needed. Other Lando sets are still great by the way, they are just harder to fit due to the great amount of competition (Ting-Lu and Great Tusk come to mind).
I didn't expect tera to remain unbanned since there are so many broken mon because of tera, its also very close result on voting almost 60%, I personally disappointed as a BAN voter, its hard to get reqs
If OU gets tiering action, I hope natdex is following OU path whether is 1 tera user, view tera type or anything rather than completely unban like nothing
Maybe there is a retest in the future, but I'm too lazy to get reqs again
If OU gets tiering action, I hope natdex is following OU path whether is 1 tera user, view tera type or anything rather than completely unban like nothing
Maybe there is a retest in the future, but I'm too lazy to get reqs again
Okay so, as much as tera staying legal has divided the nd community, I feel like we at the very least need a plan going forward. So is our plan to ban everything broken with tera, if so how are we banning them? (suspect, qb, council). What happens if new pokemon pops up to be broken in the new post ban everything meta, do we ban them as well? How do we even decide on what to ban? Right now all I want is for the people in charge of this tier to let the community know what's going to happen from here going forward, so that way we at least know whats coming.
Decided to have a little look at usage stats for Kick Off Tour because I've seen a lot of complaints about mons and sets which I havent really seen or had issues with personally so wanted to see what they were doing with a little larger sample size. I've omitted Week 1s stats because the meta was brand new and the banlist was very different and new toy syndrome probably would have skewed the numbers a lil.
Cumulitive
NatDex
NatDex
NatDex
NatDex
Some points which I found really interesting / surprising are that Koko has a net 9% win rate, which is crazy to me. The reports of Landorus-T's death were greatly exaggerated, and once again Pivot Squad Magearna and Tornadus cement themselves as almost essential.
Rains usage and win rate seem to back up peoples fears of it being too good with Tera Water making its abusers way too strong, which may also be why Mega Swampert is being dropped on some builds in favour of things like Baraskewda and the Koko/Eleki package.
The power of Trick Room has been a hot topic in the chats both on discord and the PS room but the usage stats arent really reflecting that. Both Melmetal and Marowak-A have been bought up as OP abusers of same-type Tera and while both have decent win rates, TR has only been bought to 3 games, and while it has won 2/3, its not really big enough a sample to say anything for sure. Maybe we'll see it more in the last few weeks but if it was broken broken I'm sure it would have been brought more often.
Other than that, not too much surprising, since the meta is going to stay like this for a little bit with the no ban vote on Tera I'd love to know peoples thoughts
Cumulitive
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Tornadus-Therian | 32 | 42.11% | 50.00% |
| 2 | Magearna | 29 | 38.16% | 48.28% |
| 3 | Great Tusk | 23 | 30.26% | 52.17% |
| 4 | Gholdengo | 18 | 23.68% | 55.56% |
| 5 | Dragapult | 16 | 21.05% | 56.25% |
| 6 | Landorus-Therian | 14 | 18.42% | 64.29% |
| 7 | Chien-Pao | 13 | 17.11% | 69.23% |
| 8 | Lopunny | 11 | 14.47% | 63.64% |
| 8 | Clodsire | 11 | 14.47% | 36.36% |
| 8 | Tapu Koko | 11 | 14.47% | 9.09% |
| 11 | Rotom-Wash | 10 | 13.16% | 60.00% |
| 12 | Ferrothorn | 9 | 11.84% | 77.78% |
| 12 | Urshifu-* | 9 | 11.84% | 66.67% |
| 12 | Pelipper | 9 | 11.84% | 66.67% |
| 12 | Ting-Lu | 9 | 11.84% | 66.67% |
| 12 | Scizor | 9 | 11.84% | 55.56% |
| 12 | Regieleki | 9 | 11.84% | 55.56% |
| 18 | Gastrodon | 8 | 10.53% | 25.00% |
| 19 | Volcarona | 7 | 9.21% | 71.43% |
| 19 | Iron Valiant | 7 | 9.21% | 42.86% |
| 21 | Barraskewda | 6 | 7.89% | 66.67% |
| 21 | Melmetal | 6 | 7.89% | 50.00% |
| 21 | Swampert | 6 | 7.89% | 50.00% |
| 21 | Chansey | 6 | 7.89% | 33.33% |
| 21 | Charizard | 6 | 7.89% | 33.33% |
| 21 | Ditto | 6 | 7.89% | 33.33% |
| 27 | Garganacl | 5 | 6.58% | 80.00% |
| 27 | Tapu Fini | 5 | 6.58% | 80.00% |
| 27 | Kingambit | 5 | 6.58% | 80.00% |
| 27 | Skarmory | 5 | 6.58% | 60.00% |
| 27 | Garchomp | 5 | 6.58% | 60.00% |
| 27 | Gliscor | 5 | 6.58% | 0.00% |
| 27 | Toxapex | 5 | 6.58% | 0.00% |
| 34 | Buzzwole | 4 | 5.26% | 75.00% |
| 34 | Dragonite | 4 | 5.26% | 75.00% |
| 34 | Skeledirge | 4 | 5.26% | 50.00% |
| 34 | Grimmsnarl | 4 | 5.26% | 50.00% |
| 34 | Shuckle | 4 | 5.26% | 50.00% |
| 34 | Baxcalibur | 4 | 5.26% | 50.00% |
| 34 | Heatran | 4 | 5.26% | 25.00% |
| 41 | Iron Hands | 3 | 3.95% | 100.00% |
| 41 | Mandibuzz | 3 | 3.95% | 100.00% |
| 41 | Sableye | 3 | 3.95% | 100.00% |
| 41 | Zamazenta-* | 3 | 3.95% | 66.67% |
| 41 | Tapu Lele | 3 | 3.95% | 66.67% |
| 41 | Cresselia | 3 | 3.95% | 66.67% |
| 41 | Marowak-Alola | 3 | 3.95% | 66.67% |
| 41 | Iron Treads | 3 | 3.95% | 33.33% |
| 41 | Tyranitar | 3 | 3.95% | 33.33% |
| 41 | Diancie | 3 | 3.95% | 33.33% |
| 41 | Weavile | 3 | 3.95% | 33.33% |
| 41 | Clefable | 3 | 3.95% | 0.00% |
| 41 | Annihilape | 3 | 3.95% | 0.00% |
| 54 | Hatterene | 2 | 2.63% | 100.00% |
| 54 | Zapdos | 2 | 2.63% | 50.00% |
| 54 | Rillaboom | 2 | 2.63% | 50.00% |
| 54 | Corviknight | 2 | 2.63% | 50.00% |
| 54 | Excadrill | 2 | 2.63% | 50.00% |
| 54 | Venusaur | 2 | 2.63% | 50.00% |
| 54 | Aegislash | 2 | 2.63% | 50.00% |
| 54 | Ceruledge | 2 | 2.63% | 50.00% |
| 54 | Victini | 2 | 2.63% | 50.00% |
| 54 | Blissey | 2 | 2.63% | 50.00% |
| 54 | Iron Moth | 2 | 2.63% | 0.00% |
| 54 | Avalugg | 2 | 2.63% | 0.00% |
| 54 | Slither Wing | 2 | 2.63% | 0.00% |
| 54 | Glimmora | 2 | 2.63% | 0.00% |
| 54 | Hawlucha | 2 | 2.63% | 0.00% |
| 54 | Cinderace | 2 | 2.63% | 0.00% |
| 70 | Ninetales-Alola | 1 | 1.32% | 100.00% |
| 70 | Alomomola | 1 | 1.32% | 100.00% |
| 70 | Hydreigon | 1 | 1.32% | 100.00% |
| 70 | Mawile | 1 | 1.32% | 100.00% |
| 70 | Kartana | 1 | 1.32% | 100.00% |
| 70 | Ribombee | 1 | 1.32% | 0.00% |
| 70 | Gyarados | 1 | 1.32% | 0.00% |
| 70 | Serperior | 1 | 1.32% | 0.00% |
| 70 | Iron Thorns | 1 | 1.32% | 0.00% |
| 70 | Manectric | 1 | 1.32% | 0.00% |
| 70 | Dondozo | 1 | 1.32% | 0.00% |
| 70 | Latias | 1 | 1.32% | 0.00% |
| 70 | Krookodile | 1 | 1.32% | 0.00% |
| 70 | Polteageist | 1 | 1.32% | 0.00% |
| 70 | Cyclizar | 1 | 1.32% | 0.00% |
| 70 | Slowbro | 1 | 1.32% | 0.00% |
| 70 | Stakataka | 1 | 1.32% | 0.00% |
| 70 | Camerupt | 1 | 1.32% | 0.00% |
| 70 | Torkoal | 1 | 1.32% | 0.00% |
| 70 | Iron Jugulis | 1 | 1.32% | 0.00% |
| 70 | Medicham | 1 | 1.32% | 0.00% |
| 70 | Espathra | 1 | 1.32% | 0.00% |
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Tornadus-Therian | 16 | 44.44% | 56.25% |
| 2 | Great Tusk | 13 | 36.11% | 53.85% |
| 3 | Magearna | 11 | 30.56% | 27.27% |
| 4 | Gholdengo | 9 | 25.00% | 88.89% |
| 5 | Pelipper | 8 | 22.22% | 62.50% |
| 6 | Ferrothorn | 7 | 19.44% | 71.43% |
| 6 | Swampert | 7 | 19.44% | 57.14% |
| 6 | Regieleki | 7 | 19.44% | 42.86% |
| 6 | Lopunny | 7 | 19.44% | 28.57% |
| 6 | Tapu Koko | 7 | 19.44% | 14.29% |
| 11 | Barraskewda | 6 | 16.67% | 66.67% |
| 11 | Landorus-Therian | 6 | 16.67% | 50.00% |
| 11 | Clodsire | 6 | 16.67% | 33.33% |
| 14 | Ting-Lu | 5 | 13.89% | 80.00% |
| 14 | Iron Valiant | 5 | 13.89% | 60.00% |
| 14 | Rotom-Wash | 5 | 13.89% | 20.00% |
| 17 | Volcarona | 4 | 11.11% | 75.00% |
| 17 | Charizard | 4 | 11.11% | 50.00% |
| 17 | Urshifu-* | 4 | 11.11% | 50.00% |
| 17 | Ditto | 4 | 11.11% | 50.00% |
| 21 | Chansey | 3 | 8.33% | 66.67% |
| 21 | Garchomp | 3 | 8.33% | 66.67% |
| 21 | Dragapult | 3 | 8.33% | 33.33% |
| 21 | Skarmory | 3 | 8.33% | 33.33% |
| 21 | Chien-Pao | 3 | 8.33% | 33.33% |
| 21 | Gastrodon | 3 | 8.33% | 0.00% |
| 27 | Garganacl | 2 | 5.56% | 100.00% |
| 27 | Mandibuzz | 2 | 5.56% | 100.00% |
| 27 | Sableye | 2 | 5.56% | 100.00% |
| 27 | Manaphy | 2 | 5.56% | 100.00% |
| 27 | Tapu Fini | 2 | 5.56% | 100.00% |
| 27 | Dragonite | 2 | 5.56% | 100.00% |
| 27 | Buzzwole | 2 | 5.56% | 100.00% |
| 27 | Shuckle | 2 | 5.56% | 100.00% |
| 27 | Baxcalibur | 2 | 5.56% | 100.00% |
| 27 | Kingambit | 2 | 5.56% | 100.00% |
| 27 | Grimmsnarl | 2 | 5.56% | 50.00% |
| 27 | Scizor | 2 | 5.56% | 50.00% |
| 27 | Skeledirge | 2 | 5.56% | 0.00% |
| 27 | Magnezone | 2 | 5.56% | 0.00% |
| 27 | Tapu Lele | 2 | 5.56% | 0.00% |
| 27 | Heatran | 2 | 5.56% | 0.00% |
| 27 | Toxapex | 2 | 5.56% | 0.00% |
| 27 | Gliscor | 2 | 5.56% | 0.00% |
| 27 | Weavile | 2 | 5.56% | 0.00% |
| 46 | Zamazenta-* | 1 | 2.78% | 100.00% |
| 46 | Kartana | 1 | 2.78% | 100.00% |
| 46 | Victini | 1 | 2.78% | 100.00% |
| 46 | Rillaboom | 1 | 2.78% | 100.00% |
| 46 | Iron Treads | 1 | 2.78% | 100.00% |
| 46 | Diancie | 1 | 2.78% | 100.00% |
| 46 | Torkoal | 1 | 2.78% | 0.00% |
| 46 | Venusaur | 1 | 2.78% | 0.00% |
| 46 | Ceruledge | 1 | 2.78% | 0.00% |
| 46 | Hawlucha | 1 | 2.78% | 0.00% |
| 46 | Iron Jugulis | 1 | 2.78% | 0.00% |
| 46 | Melmetal | 1 | 2.78% | 0.00% |
| 46 | Cinderace | 1 | 2.78% | 0.00% |
| 46 | Aegislash | 1 | 2.78% | 0.00% |
| 46 | Medicham | 1 | 2.78% | 0.00% |
| 46 | Iron Moth | 1 | 2.78% | 0.00% |
| 46 | Slither Wing | 1 | 2.78% | 0.00% |
| 46 | Espathra | 1 | 2.78% | 0.00% |
| 46 | Zapdos | 1 | 2.78% | 0.00% |
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Magearna | 10 | 41.67% | 60.00% |
| 2 | Dragapult | 8 | 33.33% | 62.50% |
| 3 | Tornadus-Therian | 7 | 29.17% | 71.43% |
| 3 | Great Tusk | 7 | 29.17% | 14.29% |
| 5 | Landorus-Therian | 6 | 25.00% | 100.00% |
| 5 | Chien-Pao | 6 | 25.00% | 66.67% |
| 5 | Gholdengo | 6 | 25.00% | 0.00% |
| 8 | Lopunny | 5 | 20.83% | 80.00% |
| 8 | Tapu Koko | 5 | 20.83% | 40.00% |
| 10 | Melmetal | 4 | 16.67% | 50.00% |
| 10 | Ting-Lu | 4 | 16.67% | 50.00% |
| 10 | Iron Valiant | 4 | 16.67% | 25.00% |
| 13 | Rotom-Wash | 3 | 12.50% | 100.00% |
| 13 | Slowbro | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 13 | Kingambit | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 13 | Volcarona | 3 | 12.50% | 0.00% |
| 17 | Iron Hands | 2 | 8.33% | 100.00% |
| 17 | Heatran | 2 | 8.33% | 100.00% |
| 17 | Cyclizar | 2 | 8.33% | 50.00% |
| 17 | Iron Moth | 2 | 8.33% | 50.00% |
| 17 | Zamazenta-* | 2 | 8.33% | 50.00% |
| 17 | Cresselia | 2 | 8.33% | 50.00% |
| 17 | Marowak-Alola | 2 | 8.33% | 50.00% |
| 17 | Cinderace | 2 | 8.33% | 50.00% |
| 17 | Chansey | 2 | 8.33% | 50.00% |
| 17 | Glimmora | 2 | 8.33% | 0.00% |
| 17 | Annihilape | 2 | 8.33% | 0.00% |
| 17 | Dragonite | 2 | 8.33% | 0.00% |
| 17 | Shuckle | 2 | 8.33% | 0.00% |
| 17 | Baxcalibur | 2 | 8.33% | 0.00% |
| 17 | Ditto | 2 | 8.33% | 0.00% |
| 32 | Medicham | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Barraskewda | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Pelipper | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Ferrothorn | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Urshifu-* | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Hatterene | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Scizor | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Weavile | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Zapdos | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Buzzwole | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Clodsire | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Corviknight | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Tapu Fini | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Hydreigon | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Mawile | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Regieleki | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Tyranitar | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 32 | Iron Treads | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 32 | Garchomp | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 32 | Diancie | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 32 | Polteageist | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 32 | Grimmsnarl | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 32 | Tapu Lele | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 32 | Hawlucha | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 32 | Stakataka | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 32 | Camerupt | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 32 | Charizard | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 32 | Toxapex | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 32 | Gliscor | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 32 | Clefable | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Tornadus-Therian | 14 | 46.67% | 35.71% |
| 2 | Magearna | 13 | 43.33% | 53.85% |
| 3 | Dragapult | 7 | 23.33% | 57.14% |
| 3 | Great Tusk | 7 | 23.33% | 57.14% |
| 3 | Scizor | 7 | 23.33% | 42.86% |
| 6 | Rotom-Wash | 6 | 20.00% | 50.00% |
| 6 | Landorus-Therian | 6 | 20.00% | 50.00% |
| 8 | Gastrodon | 5 | 16.67% | 40.00% |
| 8 | Clodsire | 5 | 16.67% | 40.00% |
| 10 | Chien-Pao | 4 | 13.33% | 100.00% |
| 10 | Urshifu-* | 4 | 13.33% | 75.00% |
| 10 | Skeledirge | 4 | 13.33% | 50.00% |
| 10 | Gholdengo | 4 | 13.33% | 50.00% |
| 10 | Tyranitar | 4 | 13.33% | 25.00% |
| 15 | Ferrothorn | 3 | 10.00% | 100.00% |
| 15 | Lopunny | 3 | 10.00% | 66.67% |
| 15 | Garganacl | 3 | 10.00% | 66.67% |
| 15 | Regieleki | 3 | 10.00% | 66.67% |
| 15 | Tapu Fini | 3 | 10.00% | 66.67% |
| 15 | Tapu Koko | 3 | 10.00% | 0.00% |
| 15 | Gliscor | 3 | 10.00% | 0.00% |
| 22 | Melmetal | 2 | 6.67% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Tapu Lele | 2 | 6.67% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Pelipper | 2 | 6.67% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Skarmory | 2 | 6.67% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Volcarona | 2 | 6.67% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Zapdos | 2 | 6.67% | 50.00% |
| 22 | Excadrill | 2 | 6.67% | 50.00% |
| 22 | Ting-Lu | 2 | 6.67% | 50.00% |
| 22 | Slither Wing | 2 | 6.67% | 50.00% |
| 22 | Charizard | 2 | 6.67% | 50.00% |
| 22 | Blissey | 2 | 6.67% | 50.00% |
| 22 | Iron Treads | 2 | 6.67% | 0.00% |
| 22 | Zamazenta-* | 2 | 6.67% | 0.00% |
| 22 | Clefable | 2 | 6.67% | 0.00% |
| 22 | Chansey | 2 | 6.67% | 0.00% |
| 22 | Toxapex | 2 | 6.67% | 0.00% |
| 22 | Avalugg | 2 | 6.67% | 0.00% |
| 39 | Barraskewda | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Hatterene | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Iron Hands | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Cresselia | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Marowak-Alola | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Garchomp | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Venusaur | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Aegislash | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Ninetales-Alola | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Ceruledge | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Dragonite | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Grimmsnarl | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Alomomola | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Swampert | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Kingambit | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Mandibuzz | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Sableye | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Weavile | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Ribombee | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
| 39 | Gyarados | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
| 39 | Serperior | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
| 39 | Buzzwole | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
| 39 | Diancie | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
| 39 | Iron Moth | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
| 39 | Iron Thorns | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
| 39 | Manectric | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
| 39 | Rillaboom | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
| 39 | Corviknight | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
| 39 | Annihilape | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
| 39 | Dondozo | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
| 39 | Heatran | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
| 39 | Victini | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
| 39 | Latias | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
| 39 | Krookodile | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
| 39 | Iron Valiant | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |Some points which I found really interesting / surprising are that Koko has a net 9% win rate, which is crazy to me. The reports of Landorus-T's death were greatly exaggerated, and once again Pivot Squad Magearna and Tornadus cement themselves as almost essential.
Rains usage and win rate seem to back up peoples fears of it being too good with Tera Water making its abusers way too strong, which may also be why Mega Swampert is being dropped on some builds in favour of things like Baraskewda and the Koko/Eleki package.
The power of Trick Room has been a hot topic in the chats both on discord and the PS room but the usage stats arent really reflecting that. Both Melmetal and Marowak-A have been bought up as OP abusers of same-type Tera and while both have decent win rates, TR has only been bought to 3 games, and while it has won 2/3, its not really big enough a sample to say anything for sure. Maybe we'll see it more in the last few weeks but if it was broken broken I'm sure it would have been brought more often.
Other than that, not too much surprising, since the meta is going to stay like this for a little bit with the no ban vote on Tera I'd love to know peoples thoughts
I feel mirroring OU and implementing their own limitations without a proper suspect is just absurd and unfair to those who voted. The suspect was held with only full ban as possible.
After the ban failed to pass its quite frankly dishonest and shady to try and find ways to limit Tera when the initial vote was all or nothing. A more nuanced suspect could have yielded better results. Also I don't really see much argument for a retest later down the line, because unlike OU we already have all Pokémon and moves.
Speaking of TR, Banded Melmetal with Tera steel seems nigh uncounterable, the flinch is really what pushes it over the edge.
Actually we don't have the Hisui Pokemon until Home drops in a few months, but I'm not too sure if that would warrant a retest.