Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion

Welcome to Natdex OU, I just wanted to give some points on your post.
Specs Charizard is nothing to underestimate, 2HKOing even Blissey, the mighty Special wall. With Flamethrower! One free switch in, and you will unleash all sorts of destruction unless the opponent has specific answers, all of which are vulnerable to Charizard's coverage.
While Specs Charizard is tremendously powerful, it is weak to stealth rocks as you mentioned and relatively frail. Even if you go the Heavy-Duty Boots route you still lose out on Mega Charizard Y, which can be a great additional sun setter.
Additionally, partners like Gliscor who can Defog are natural partners who can appreciate the opposing water types getting removed by combined assault. Magic Bouncers from Espeon, to Mega Sableye, to Mega Diancie and even Xatu are great as well.
I'd say Gliscor is outclassed by Great Tusk, which gets the protosynthesis boost in Sun and matches the fast pace Sun teams like operating at better. It's also why I think Mega Sableye and Xatu have no real place on Sun, they're more suited for drawn out games.
I haven't even explored Protosynthesis mons like Flutter Mane, who will add a whole new level of destruction.
Flutter Mane has been banned to Natdex Ubers.
Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor alone are very powerful, but when given coverage like Ice Beam, Hurricane and Flash Cannon it can break past things that would try to stand up to repeated hits. Terrastallizing into a Steel Type is by far one of the best things you can do with Kingdra, as it has the movepool to utterly drown anything that would dare try to attack it.
I don't really see why to run Flash Cannon over a move like Surf, considering all the Fairy types are unable to stand up to rain boosted water attacks anyways. The only exception being Tapu Fini which is neutral to Steel anyways. Similarly I don't understand why you'd run tera Steel over tera Water. The extra power on water moves is greatly appreciated and I don't see against which Pokemon the Steel tera type would come in handy defensively.
As somebody who has played Gen V's OU, I know that Rain Stall is a thing, even with the nerf to weather from Gen VI onwards.
Rain stall has basically stopped existing once weather was no longer permanent. Similarly to how Mega Sableye, Gliscor and Xatu don't fit on sun, rain likes to move at a very fast pace as well. A rain stall team would have to switch far too often to its rain setter or use rain dance over and over again, which is very exploitable. Ferrothorn does still have a place on rain however because it's not really a passive Pokemon, it can do quite a bit of damage and support the team with hazards.
So far just gonna keep experimenting with both weathers. I think rain is stronger overall than sun as it requires less support, but I don't know if it is banworthy yet. Open to seeing how the meta develops.
I definitely agree rain is a lot stronger than sun, it will be interesting to see how its viability will shift with the recent bans.
 

adem

her
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I'd say Gliscor is outclassed by Great Tusk, which gets the protosynthesis boost in Sun and matches the fast pace Sun teams like operating at better. It's also why I think Mega Sableye and Xatu have no real place on Sun, they're more suited for drawn out games.
gliscor does have good merit on fatter teams, esp since it has tox compared to tusk which lets it deal w certain sweepers better in the long term. also i think flying kingdra might be better im ngl with cane
 
Thanks for feedback. I guess my thought for Tera Steel was that it allows you to potentially survive a draco meteor or fairy attack and not be vulnerable, but maybe that is redundant. Tera Flying with Hurricane is a cool idea to replace Flash Cannon. Tera Water is also great too.

One idea that has been in my mind: how are sticky web teams faring in this meta? With the amount of attacks getting thrown around, and Gholdengo blocking both defog and rapid spin, that feels like a hazard that is very strong and easy to abuse. Especially when paired with stuff like Choice Band Dragonite and Choice Specs Dragapult.

Honestly, the later might be broken. Because it just has the speed tier to invalidate many offensive threats. I wouldn't mind it going to Ubers. And it gets to abuse rain too, with Hydro Pump and Tera Water itself.
 
gliscor does have good merit on fatter teams, esp since it has tox compared to tusk which lets it deal w certain sweepers better in the long term. also i think flying kingdra might be better im ngl with cane
I meant it exclusively in the context of sun teams, where I think Tusk fits better than Gliscor because of the higher pace sun teams operate at. Also I'm not so sure about tera flying on Kingdra. It does help it more easily break past grass types but Tera Water Hydro Pump deals about as much on opposing Water types as Tera Flying Hurricane. Especially against neutral targets I think the power difference is very noticeable, where Tera Water is able to score OHKOs against almost everything with even Surf while Tera Flying doesn't reach quite the same damage thresholds.
 
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Rain is fantastic, truly a powerful playstyle that has been very fun so far. I'm gonna share my team.

Lifeguard (Floatzel) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wave Crash
- Ice Spinner
- Aqua Jet
- Crunch/Switcheroo/Tera Blast
It is heartwarming to see this thing shoot up to OU after years of being neglected by Game Freak. Wave Crash is the perfect addition for Floatzel, giving it reliable STAB that is easy to spam against the enemy. Ice Spinner can allow a stronger hit on dragons and grass mons, especially if rain is inactive, and is better than Ice Punch. Aqua Jet is great STAB and priority as well, allowing you to counter an opposing priority attack and still hitting with considerable power. Crunch is mostly filler and is only there as it hits a good amount of things neutrally and can be replaced by other moves, including Low Kick, Tera Blast (if using another type coverage) and Switcheroo. The later is noteworthy to explore as it cripples walls and is worth considering.

Garrison (Pelipper) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Roost
- U-turn
- Scald
- Defog/Hurricane

The best drizzle setter by far, as Politoed, while not exactly a bad Pokemon does not have the same utility moves and reliable recovery. Pelipper is very underrated and can support the team just by existing. However, Defog can allow you to remove entry hazards and it can easily switch a partner in that defeats the opponent's means to threaten Pelipper. I even experimented with a Choice Specs set, which isn't all that reliable but does have a nasty surprise factor. Especially because it has all the moves it possibly needs.

Vegeta (Kingdra) (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Hurricane/Surf
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam

My favorite Dragon type of all time and with the rain, is truly the King of all Dragons. Kingdra is beautifully designed for rain teams like this one, doing everything it needs and having all of the tools it requires to rip past enemy targets. All moves are essential except the choice between Hurricane and Surf. Hurricane under rain seems obvious, and for now that is what I am running, but Surf is reliable and perfectly accurate which under rain can drown foes. So long as rain is legal, Kingdra will shine Johto's brilliance and remind people that it is never to be underestimated. Long live the King of all Dragons.

Iron Maiden (Ferrothorn) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Knock Off
- Spikes
- Protect

I decided that rain can use a defensive answer for pivoting, and Ferrothorn is easily the first choice. It loves fire moves being weakened and can help facilitate the sweepers on my team. Spikes is nice to add even with HDB running around as it helps me determine what items the opponent might have. Knock Off is good to throw out and Leech Seed/Protect do well together, just as seen many times before in previous generations. Pelipper can absorb fighting attacks and even some ground moves, while Ferrothorn resists electric and dragon attacks. I gave it Tera Ghost to act as a second answer to fighting or surprise fire attackers, giving just one extra turn to figure out a plan.

Defender (Swampert-Mega) @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Liquidation
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

For my Mega Slot I chose Swampert, who has the stats and typing to support my team further. All of Swampert's moves suit it for supporting Floatzel and Kingdra in breaking down targets. Stealth Rock is nice to throw out to help weaken switch ins, and with Ferrothorn's spikes, they add some offensive pressure that makes winning the weather battle easier to accomplish. Liquidation and Earthquake are perfect accuracy and reliable physical stab. Very proud of this Hoenn starter and glad to see it getting the chance to shine in National Dex OU.

Slugger (Gastrodon-East) @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Toxic/Spikes

Gastrodon was a little strange at first, but it has great synergy with Ferrothorn and Pelipper. Toxic is great to throw out when I get the chance and it has the invaluable trait of absorbing water attacks entirely from opposing rain teams. And Ferrothorn is there to sponge attacks from other typings, notably dragon. Spikes can substitute toxic for even more pressure on the opposing team. I chose leftovers over heavy duty boots but both are great items, so take your pick.

Other speculation for mons that seem like alternative choices worth considering for rain teams. These are just ones that come to mind immediately.

Good Special Attacking Abusers: Starmie, Raikou, Zapdos, Omastar, Keldeo, Greninja, Dragupult, Rotom-Wash, Manaphy, Xurkitree, Tapu-Fini, Tapu-Koko, Mega Manectric, Tornadus. Any one of these could abuse moves or abilities that thrive with rain boosting their power. Some have perfect accurate thunders to throw out, others have good offensive synergy.
Good Physical Attacking Abusers: Urshifu, Kabutops, Toxicroak, Crawdaunt, Sharpedo/Mega-Sharpedo, Azumarill, Gyarados/Mega Gyarados, Basculin, Barraskewda, Quaquaval, Poliwrath.
Alternative Defensive mons that appreciate rain: Politoed (alternative rain setter), Cradily, Toxapex, Chansey, Blastoise, Slowking, Slowbro, Mantine.

Do I think rain is broken? No. Rain has a hard time against teams that can out offense it and without rain, many of these mons struggle to break past defensive cores, though it isn't impossible. Do I think rain is powerful? Yes. Only a fool would say rain is not without abusers. Could certain abusers need to be banned to make a more balanced metagame? Quite possibly. Going to continue to explore weather, including rain.

Thank you for your time.
 

Sputnik

Bono My Tires are Deceased
is a Contributor Alumnus
I'm interested as to whether anyone has tried Reuniclus yet, the mon is pretty decent right now imo and has some really nice tricks up its sleeve. The Stored Power CM set absolutely destroys a lot of the more passive options in the tier especially with Tera, and Tera lets you do better against faster teams than any set like it in previous gens would have been otherwise.

:ss/reuniclus:
Reuniclus @ Leftovers/Rocky Helmet/Colbur Berry/Maybe Kasib Berry if you wanna be funny
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Fighting/Dark/ Fairy/Prolly something else too this is remarkably flexible
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power / Psyshock
- Focus Blast / Acid Armor
- Calm Mind
- Recover

Basically Reuniclus with the right Tera type for the situation can turn a game on its head very easily, it can grab CMs against common choice users like Pult locked into something that isn't Shadow Ball, CB or Scarf Zama, and Scarf Lele as well as more passive mons like Fat Chomp, Gastro, or Rotom-W or something. Ur good against TR too because the setters can't do anything about you boosting and then Tera can mess up Alolawak or MMaw or whatever is trying to revenge you. I can't really understate how good Tera is on this thing, switching to a Dark type or a Fighting type or whatever can just lose someone the game instantly if they have the wrong form of counterplay. It's not the most reliable bc its reliant on having the right Tera type for most situations but having a solid defensive core against big threats to it as well as extra anti-offense insurance works well. Stored Power is better imo because u need the power to get past a lot of psychic resists and u pressure unaware mons that way, Psyshock is if u really hate Pex but Pex is highkey kinda mid right now imo so I think SP is massively better. Focus Blast is def better than Acid Armor imo but if you wanna play the really long game with Helmet or something it could probably work, Fight Z is an option too I guess but Tera is a massive reason why this is usable so I don't think I would do that.

Cool mon I'm curious if others are using it.
 
just wondering it may be added in dlc, but how viable/broken are koko + quark drive pokes here? are they as strong as people speculate the combo to be?
 
One of the best defensive cores in the tier rn: Rotom-Wash + Ferrothorn + Heatran.
:ss/Rotom_Wash: :ss/Ferrothorn: :ss/Heatran:

This Fire, Water, Grass core is amazing. The defensive prowless in this core is amazing, they all basically can switch in on the whole meta. Rotom-Wash, usually a defogger, rotom can come in on mons like great-tusk, corviknight, heatran, pelipper, swampert-mega, toxapex, volcarona, and will-o, hyrdro, or volt to a breaker. Ferrothorn can spike up, leech seed or knock usually on mons like fini, gholdengo (usually), gren, lando, gliscor, swampert, etc. Heatran is just a great addition to this core due to adding stealth rocks and trapping scary mons for ferrothorn and rotom-wash. I believe this core will be overused alot on teams due to the great defensive power in it.
 
How are you guys handling Zamazenta at the moment? More specifically the Choice Band set which I've been struggling to keep in check. Its speed tier is absurd and its Close Combat combined with its great coverage can be very difficult to switch into, especially if it chooses to terastallize. It also has solid natural bulk to make revenge killing attempts quite difficult.
 
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They say that at this current time, the sun is the furthest from the Earth, so how about we bring it back?



1674049108878.png



This is my Guide to building a Sunny Day team in the Gen 9 National Dex...

So to start things of, let's go with the basics, Sun teams are very similar to those of Hyper Offense, very aggressive. However unlike those teams that setup screens and bombard the field with hazards, Sun teams rely on weather, which has huge benefits thanks to Increasing Fire type attacks by 50%, and triggering certain abilites like Solar Power, Chlorophyll, and the newest ability added this gen, Protosynthesis. Your main goal in Sun teams is to Setup Sun(through a Drought user, not manual) and abuse the sun's presence and make the most of it.

I'm gonna ranking the following mons as follows:

:woop: This emote will be my approval of this pokemon as being effective for this strategy, and the more happy whoppers, the better.

:woop: 1 whopper means it is effective, yet not necessary.

:woop::woop:2 whoppers means is solid, and can be used more frequently and to great effect.

:woop::woop::woop:And 3 means it is a must have, it's either a key piece for the team, or it's just way to good to pass over.

:pikuh: As for this one would be my denial, either the mon either doesmt do much of good use, its outclassed by another mon in the role, or just isn't good at all.


First, the setters:



:torkoal: :woop::woop::woop:
Torkoal is mainly here for setup the Sun for the team. thanks to Drought. Torkoal can also provides us with some hazard control with Stealth Rock, as well as use some status moves like Will-O-Wisp, Toxic and Yawn. Unfortunately Torkoal just, doesn't seem to do much besides set the temple, it's rather passive, and Fire type isn't really good defensively. However it's not all gloom and doom for our turtle friend, thanks to Terastalization, Torkoal can change it's typing to either Water or Grass. Water is one of the best defensive typings plus it gives him neutrality to Stealth Rock, while Grass give him a Ground resistance, which can be crucial sometimes. However, this does come at the cost of offensive prowess that can be used on another mon in the team, so use it only when needed.



:ninetales: :pikuh:
If I see that your team has this as the sun setter, your team is already flawed. Ninetales isn't good at all for the roll, as it just doesn't do much of anything. Similarly passive as the turtle, but overall worse. it is physically frail, and while 100 spdef isn't bad, it can't be compared to torkoal's 140 physical defense and like Torkoal, Fire typing isn't very good defensively. Yes, Tera would be useful, but that is better reserved for one of your sweepers, which Ninetales just isn't part of. It is fast at 100, but that is average in comparison to the speedsters in this metagame. Sure it has some cute moves like Pain Split, which is a good point over Torkoal, and can try and sweep with Nasty Plot, but even this isn't enough to justify it. So unless you do not play seriously, do not pick this one.



Chlorophyll abusers:



:venusaur::woop: :woop:
Perhaps the first Chlorophyll that comes to the mind of many players, and for good reason. Venusaur under sun is quite the speedster, reaching 518 speed with only Modest nature 252 speed investment. on top of that, it is respectfully bulky, which is welcomed on a swepper, and while 100 spatk is just average, it can boost its spatk further thanks to Growth. I mean, what else can I say other than its prhaps the best Chlorophyll abuser rn? With its combination of decent typing and coverage, Venusaur can mold threw teams given the right circumstances. My tera recomendation would be either Grass or Fire, as Grass can be usefull for boosting Giga Drain, while Fire can boost Weather Ball.



:scovillain: :woop:
The newest Chlorophyll mon is quite interesting, as it is the first Fire type with said ability, and it's also the first Fire/Grass type(which I personally been waiting for.) This means that it gets boosted by Stab as well as Sun, and with 108 on both attack stats, this makes it even more explosive than Venusaur. But as good as that is, it's also pretty weak defensively, 65 in Hp and both defenses is quite terrible, and this mon is even slower than Venusaur as well, with 75 speed, meanwhile the starter has 80. It's movepool is underwhelming as well.(It has Fire Fang as it's best Fire physical attack, yikes) However it can also make the most of Growth as it can run a mixed set reliably, with moves like Fire Blast, Flamethower, Solar Beam, Giga Drain, Stomping Tantrum, Crunch, Zen Headbutt(be creative). Overall while flawed, it is full of potential, and it can be played over Venusaur and still perform decently. Fire is the recomended Tera for a lil' extra spicy kick. Alternatively, it can use Tera Blast of either Ground or Ice for a fully special based swepper, do that requires you to dedicate him as the mon to Tera if you don't mind that.


:lilligant-hisui:(Pokemon Home Dlc) :woop:
Pokemon home sure brought us some cool stuff. From the likes of solid pokes like Hisuian Samurott, to broken ones like Ursaluna nadSneasler, to some well, not so great like Hisuian Avalugg. So where does Hisuian Lilligant ended up in? Well for sun teams, I wouldn't call it horrible, as it has an amazing signature move in Victory Dance, a physical clone a Quiver Dance. do with Chlorophyll and an already decent speed of 105, the +1 speed seems almost unnecessarily, so Swords Dance might fit in better. It has a decent 105 attack stat as well, so after a boost it can get pretty nasty. The real issue with Hisui lilligant is its lackluster offensive prowess. Grass Fighting isnt necessarily bad, but far from an ideal offensive typing, nothing like a sun sweeper getting blocked by Gholdengo and Corviknight. It also doesn't help that it has pitiful coverage options, sure Ice Spinner can be cool. but it isnt always going to with the targets u truly want, like say... Gholdengo. Now thankfully it can fix these issues with Terraztalization, which would allow it to use Tera Fire and benefit even more from the sun. But this also means you must keep it exclusively to H lilli, and some other pokes may want teras offensive or even defensive capabilities in some scenarios, a perfect examples is when u face a Rain team, Torkoal can actually make use of Tera Water in order to withstand attacks from Basculegion and Mega Swampert, which can keep him alive much longer.



:leafeon: :pikuh:
Now as a physical chlorophyll mon, Leafeon is kinda ok, 110 atk is good, and 90 on a mon with this ability is actually excellent, as you can just make Leafeon adamant for even more power. The issue with it it's the coverage, it is almost non existent, and sure, there is Tera Blast to help in the regard, Tera Fire can give it good coverage that is further boosted by sun. All of this in paper sounds great, and it can work, but in practice, you're left wanting more.



:sawsbuck: :pikuh:
Similar to Leafeon, only that with some coverage, it has Play Rough is excellent for Fighting and Dragon types(R.I.P Kommo-O), Megahorn, Zen Headbutt and Jump Kick are fine options as well. It has Horn Leech, a physical version of Giga Drain, it gets STAB in Return and Double-Edge, and has access to both Swords Dance and Agility(do extra speed seems somewhat unnecessary) 100 atk fine, but a 95 speed Chlorophyll mon is super fast, to give numbers, it reaches 578 speed with Adamant(If only Regieleki has stood in the tier to witness such a blitz) all that sounds good and all but even with this it's outclassed by Leafeon, and Leafeon isn't really good either. Grass Tera or Normal seem to be it's best fit. you can also try Tera Fire with Tera Blast if you don't him being the dedicated Tera user.(still, just use venusaur or scovillain for the roles)



I'm gonna stop here and say that the grand majority of Chlorophyll mons aren't really worth it as all you really need is 1-2 mons, and Venusaur atm is the best of the bunch, with Scovillain being second, there are some that can be tested like the Sawsbuck and Leafeon if you wanna try, But overall, Venusaur and Scovillain are the only good Chlorophyll mons for now.



Protosyntesis abusers= To give reminder for those unfamiliar, Protosyntesis is a new ability added to Scarlet and Violet, and it gives the pokemon a +1 stat boost on its highest stat invested while either holding the Energy Booster item, or while under Sun. so yeah, excellent ability for the strategy.



:great tusk::woop::woop::woop:
This new Donphan(or old should I say) is amazing. It is perhaps the best pokemon with this ability, a solid atk, defense and hp, great typing, great utility, but what is really great for sun particular is Protosynthesis, which boostes the highest stat while holding Energy Boster, or, in Sun. 87 speed aint amazing, but it can do work, with Rapid Spin giving it now a +1 speed while removing the hazards for the team, it also has outstanding movepool, Earthquake, Close Combat, Headlong Rush are all solid moves with high base power. Coverage options in Knock off, Ice Spinner and Play Rough are also worth mentioning. It can also reliably be used offensively or defensively, do I recommend a more offensive approach for this one, it's respectfully tanky without any investment in defense, and this can allow to bash threw while supporting the team with its utility movepool. Now it isn't perfect, while 131 def is great, 53 spdef is not, so it has to run away from most(if not all) special attackers, for example, it's a decently good check to Dragon Dance Dragapult, but it doesn't do good at all if the pult is Choice Specs. But it is definitely the Landorus-T of this team, a lil too good to pass over. for Tera options Ground is solid for removing weaknesses while keeping offensive pressure. Alternatively, Flying can be used for a ground immunity(you're gonna need those.)



:slither wing: :woop:
I have mixed feelings for Slither Wing, it has high highs but also low lows. First the highs, High Atk at 135, decent special bulk at 105, and overall a powerhouse, First Impression and Close Combat are excellent moves to have. It has many moves to run too, Flare Blitz to receive a Sun boost, Wild Charge, Earthquake, Dual Wingbeat for coverage, Morning Sun for massive healing, and Flame Charge or Trailblaze to fix it's speed. With that being said, let's go with the bad, that 81 speed tier is leaving something to be desired. and while bulky, it's typing can be exploited by Fairy, Psychic, Fire, Rock and specially Flying types. However this is no Ramphardos, it can solve it's speed issues with priority as well as the speed boosting moves, and it's typing does have some good mu's like Grass, Dark and Ground. Overall, it could have been better yes, but it can be used if played well. For Tera types, Bug is ok for boost up U-turn and First Impression, but Fighting and Fire are great for Close Combat and Flare Blitz respectively.



:sandy shocks::psygrump:
This one gave me headaches to rate because appearently, no one uses it. It has decent potential do, 121 spatk is good, 101 speed is lol, and while not a tank, 97 def and 85 spdef are decent alongside 85 hp. The main I issue with Sandy Shocks is the movepool, Almost like Regieleki levels of bad. It naturally doesn't have a good way for with Ground types for supereffective, and 101 speed is nothing for the overall fast metagame, you can make up for it by just running 208 spatk investment with 252 speed plus timid, and the rest can be dumped in hp or defenses to gain +1 speed in Sun instead of Spatk and then add a boost item like Life Orb or Choice Specs. and like Regieleki, it can make his coverage issues a thing of the past(Get it? he is from the past... anyway) by changing into Tera Ice for the ever wanted VoltBeam coverage. I gave a Psyduck emote since I can't really tell whether it's good or not, but in my opinion, as long you don't mind using Tera exclusively for Sandy Shocks, it has the potential to be very effective in the Sun.



:brute bonnet::pikuh:
I don't really think you want this on your sun imo. It has decent bulk in 99 in both defenses(9999...) and an atk stat of 127 is nothin' to sneeze at, but overall feels gimmicky. it typing has pros and cons(Nothin like using it to tank a hit, only lose to a U-Turn) 55 speed is bad, so forget sweeping with it reliably, and overall sun is an aggressive playstyle, which this doesn't spell the word "aggressive" to me. You can try if you like, but to me, there is just better options in general.



:scream tail::pikuh: DON'T
Unless you want to meme with it, really, DON'T.



Megas:



:charizard mega y::woop::woop:
Perhaps the first Mega that comes to mind when it comes to sun(Or megas in general) Mega Yard on its own it really good, it's just, not that needed for sun, Sure it can be used as a backup Drought, but a lot of the times, it's not needed, plus Yard holding the Mega Stone means that it can't use Heat Rock to extend the Sun's duration, so u only get 5 turns instead of 8. Then there is the very little minor drawback of it's quad Stealth Rock weakness(yeah, pretty minor) so you're gonna need extra support in order to remove hazards, which isn't always ideal considering u rather waste those turns swinging at the opponent's face. Still, if you REALLY want a backup Drought, and can also make up for the pebbles, it can be a fine choice.



:houndoom mega::woop:
If you ever wanted to play Chi-yu but can't cause it's banned? then sun teams have a great alternative. It has a respectable 115 speed stat, along with a whopping 140 spatk, but more important it's ability, Solar Power, which boost the mons power by 50% while in the sun, at the cost of 1/8 of Hp every turn. With all this Fire power on its finger tips, this thing can really just get in(if done safely) and start blastin'. Here are is a calc that many would be shocked with.

+2 252 SpA Solar Power Houndoom-Mega Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Toxapex in Sun: 263-310 (86.5 - 101.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

As if that wasn't enough. it has access to Nasty Plot, further boosting its firepower. Mega Doom is a pretty decent option for a mega in sun, it just seems to be designed for it.



:garchomp mega: :woop:
At first glance this one seems odd, as it's ability has nothing to do with sun at all, however it is definitely worth the mega slot for a number of reasons. 1, its titanic 170 atk makes the likes of even Mega Houndoom look weak. 2, it appreciates the ability to use Fire Fangs to deal with certain mons it could struggle with like Corviknight, and while Fire Fang is rather weak at 65 base power, coming out of a 170 atk and under sun makes it feel like a Flare Blitz. and sure, it mega evolving does make him slower which is bad, however Chomp here has access to Scale Shot to make up for it, and after 1 Swords Dance, things just drop dead in front of it. 2 of the 3 Unaware mons used, Clodsire and Skeledirge take serious damage from Earthquake, her are some calcs to show the numbers:

252 Atk Garchomp-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Clodsire: 432-510 (93.1 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Garchomp-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 288-342 (69.9 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

as you can see, both are 2hkoed, even a fully physically defensive clodsire has slightly above 50% chance to be ohkoed(without stealth rocks up btw) and the other lesser used one, Dondozo, lacks a good recovery move and has to rely on the universal Rest, which can be exploited by teammates like Venusaur and Scovillain.

252 Atk Garchomp-Mega Scale Shot (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dondozo: 225-270 (44.6 - 53.5%) -- approx. 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And while its ability Sand Force does nothing in sun, it also provides the team a better chance against sand teams, boosting its Earthquakes by 30%, getting the jump on mons like Tyranitar, Excadrill and Dracozolt that are often seen in sand teams. Overall while it may look odd, it will make sense once you try it.



Other options:



:Blaziken::woop::woop:
It is true that Blaziken has fallen from grace, however, I am a strong believer that he is still worth in sun teams. Speed Boost is an amazing ability for offense, and while 80 speed isn't great, if you can get it going, it can be hard to stop. Do Life orb may be attractive for the extra firepower, Blaziken just gets worned down too quickly, but an item that's worth running is Firium Z, after a Swords Dance under the Sun this chicken can do massive damage output, here are some calcs for reference:

+2 252 Atk Blaziken Inferno Overdrive (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex in Sun: 244-288 (80.2 - 94.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Blaziken Inferno Overdrive (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro in Sun: 297-349 (75.3 - 88.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Blaziken Inferno Overdrive (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash in Sun: 301-355 (99 - 116.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Blaziken Inferno Overdrive (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini in Sun: 287-338 (83.4 - 98.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

(Seems like someone else is getting fried...)
Now if you did read these calcs, you probably realized that all 4 are Water types, and for a heads up, the Blaziken for this calcs is Jolly Nature. If that didn't convinced you, I don't know what will.



:Victini::woop:. :woop:
Another mon that has also fallen, do not the same levels as Blaziken, but it has a place in here as well. A scarf set gives a ton if utility for sun, it can shut down some roadblocks with Final Gambit, U-turn is good for pivoting, and V-Create is powerful under sun. Bolt Strike can be used for coverage, and Trick can be used to ruin pesky walls and passive mons like Toxapex, Dondozo, and Skeledirge. and as a second option, it can run a Normalium Z to use Z-Celbrate and get an omniboost. And it has moves to mix and match too, Blue Flare, Bolt Strike, Energy Ball, Thunderbolt, Searing Shot, Zen Headbutt, and the dreaded Stored Power. If running the scarf variant, Tera Fire for the firepower can be a good choice.



:Tornadus-Therian::woop::woop:
Tornadus-Therian has been having a wonderful time in NDOU ever since it joined the tier, so why not use it in sun as well? It does learns Heat Wave after all. But seriously, this mon brings a tone of value for sun teams, its a Flying type, giving us a Ground immunity, it also has a great speed stat at 121, a solid 110 spatk stat, and comes with the caveat of Regenerator as its ability, meaning that even with rocks up, it can have a shot at sticking around. It does appreciate Heavy Duty Boots do, for not being crippled by the pebbles, but it can also be a great Flynium Z abuser, with it's new move, Bleakwind Storm, replacing Hurricane for a more accurate move at 80%. What's more its movepool can let it go places, Heat Wave, Focus Blast, U-Turn, Taunt, Defog, and Nasty Plot can Knock Off. It can either play the role of a defogger, or it can join in the sweeping fun with Nasty Plot. for Tera Type, Flying, Fighting or Fire work well respectably.



:Tapu Lele: :woop: :woop:
Tapu Lele may not be abusing the sun very much, but that doesn't prevent it from being a valuable pokemon for the team. It's main benefit comes with the ability Psychic Surge, which can summon Psychic Terrain to give a boost psychic moves by 30%, which is great for Tapu Lele, Wait, hold on... I tought this was a sun team, what does this have to do with sun at all? Well for the most part, it doesn't benefit from sun, but it is a great team player, since Psychic Terrain also comes with the bonus of preventing all sorts of priority moves, from Extreme Speed, to Sucker Punch, to even Prankster. This allows the team to bypass one of the few ways of out speeding the mons in our team, namely Venusaur, Scovillain, Blaziken, and Mega Garchomp, Scovillain for example loves the prevention of Sucker Punches and Extreme Speeds from the likes of Dragapult, Dragonite, and Kingambit, considering the pepper's frailty. What's more it can be a decent revenger killer with Choice Scarf, boost itself even further with Choice Specs, and even take advantage of its decent special bulk with Assault Vest. And it enjoys pairing up with sun as well, since most mons in the team can easily handle the steel types like Ferrothorn, Heatran, and Gholdengo that can get in its way, plus it can throw some mean Hidden Power Fires if you want to take advantage of the sun in some way. Best Tera types for it are Psychic and Fairy for a free adaptability.



:Rotom Wash: :woop:
If Tapu Lele uses sun very little to its benefits, at least it does that, Rotom-Wash wont even bother with Hidden Power Fire, perhaps a Will-O-Wisp if it can fit it in the move set. However like Tornadus-Therian it brings a beneficial ground immunity, but while Tornadus-T might be an offense mon, this one is more of a defensive one, with solid 107 defenses it can be use as the teams defensive backbone, it does a nice pairing with Great Tusk for a defensive core, and while both are weak to grass, this team can set a forest fire if they were allowed to...(poor Smokey), it's typing its excellent defensively as its only weak to grass thanks go Levitate, it can resist the Water attacks aimed at the Fire Types of the team, as well as Ice ones aimed at the Grass types, and Ground types benefit from both of these. it also has decent utility options, Will-O-Wisp, Toxic or Thunder Wave for a crippling status, Defog for hazard removal, Pain Split for a form of recovery, Volt Switch for momentum grabbing, allowing mons like Scovillain and Blaziken to hit the field safely, and it can even run a Choice Scarf set with Trick to cripple walls and passive mons. However one thing I will mention is that Washtom doesn't need Tera as much, since it won't be using it offensively and defensively he is already good, but if I were to mention a type, Steel is excellent for it, as it allows to bypass its only weakness while being the best single defensive type in the game, while also kepping the ground immunity, making it ever tougher to deal with.



:gastrodon::woop:
Gstrodon's main purpose is similar to that on Washtom's, a defensive backbone. Thanks to its ability Storm Drain, it can not only take Water type atacks, but it is immune to them, and gets a free spatk boost from it. Now its not like Gastro all of a sudden becomes a sweeper with this, specially with sun cutting down Water moves power, but it is a useful stopgap, it can patch certain holes a team might have, like if your team ran Torkoal, Blaziken, Mega Houndoom and Scovillain(yeah, rain teams would be more than happy to see a team with 4 Fire types under rain) Gastro can easily help patch this(do i would suggest to still prevent running too many Fire types, the power is good, but it comes at a cost) more than than, Gastro is quite the bulky special wall, with 115 hp and a decent 82 spdef, it has Recovery for be more annoying, Toxic for it to be less passive, and some decent special attacks like Scald, Ice Beam, Earth Power, Sludge, it can setup Stealth and/or Spikes, which is great for the team to cripple the opponent as much as possible, Yawn can force a switch or put a mon to sleep(the grand majority switch out of it btw) and all in all, it brings decent qualitites for the team. Like Washtom, Gastro doesn't really use Tera very much, but just like Washtom, Tera Steel seems best suiting.

Now it wouldn't be so nice to leave you in the dry right? Well for those ones who wanna play sun but don't know how to build one properly just yet, I came up with a team to get you started: :torkoal::venusaur::hatterene::great tusk::victini::tornadus-therian:

Well I hope those who read this article found it interesting, I am thinking to do a few like this, do there is no promises, just a possibility. Anyways I wanna give huge thanks for those that help me out on this post, A LOT, And I hope this was of good use
 
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I am new to National Dex OU, so let me introduce myself. I am Patar136. Been around Pokemon for quite a while, but wanted to add my thoughts on two playstyles. Sun and Rain.

Sun:
Torkoal's sun setting abilities have enabled me to abuse many threats. Specs Charizard is nothing to underestimate, 2HKOing even Blissey, the mighty Special wall. With Flamethrower! One free switch in, and you will unleash all sorts of destruction unless the opponent has specific answers, all of which are vulnerable to Charizard's coverage. Even with Heavy Duty Boots, to avoid Stealth Rock which is the bane of Charizard's existence, Charizard will do tremendous damage. Other abusers include Venusaur, by far one of the scariest Chlorophyll abusers, Heatran with its amazing defensive qualities, Blaziken who drops everything after Swords Dance and more. Additionally, partners like Gliscor who can Defog are natural partners who can appreciate the opposing water types getting removed by combined assault. Magic Bouncers from Espeon, to Mega Sableye, to Mega Diancie and even Xatu are great as well. I haven't even explored Protosynthesis mons like Flutter Mane, who will add a whole new level of destruction. Calm Mind Flutter Mane will either finish off anything Charizard didn't break through, or will just break things all by itself. By far a style I look forward to experimenting more with.

Rain:
Rain is nothing short of excellent. Mega Swampert, Floatzel, Barraskewda, Kingdra, Kabutops, Ludicolo.... whoever you add will drown your enemy in its wake if given the chance to attack. Kingdra is also of note as a mon that I want to highlight. While not getting anything new stat wise, it has everything it needs to succeed. Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor alone are very powerful, but when given coverage like Ice Beam, Hurricane and Flash Cannon it can break past things that would try to stand up to repeated hits. Terrastallizing into a Steel Type is by far one of the best things you can do with Kingdra, as it has the movepool to utterly drown anything that would dare try to attack it. Oh, and it gets Flip Turn. So you can even pivot to something Kingdra won't break through. And this is all just offense. As somebody who has played Gen V's OU, I know that Rain Stall is a thing, even with the nerf to weather from Gen VI onwards. Ferrothorn loves rain, as it makes it that much easier to sponge hits. Rotom-Wash, Gastrodon and Tentacruel are things to watch out for as well, especially as Toxic Spikes is a great hazard to throw around.

So far just gonna keep experimenting with both weathers. I think rain is stronger overall than sun as it requires less support, but I don't know if it is banworthy yet. Open to seeing how the meta develops.
Well if wanna experiment with sun, should i recomend you my sunny day guide that i recenty posted? *wink wink*(shameless promo)
 
just wondering it may be added in dlc, but how viable/broken are koko + quark drive pokes here? are they as strong as people speculate the combo to be?
Less broken than Koko + Regieleki.
Hands is the only unbanned Paradox that synergizes really well with Koko, being bulky enough to eat almost any physical attack coming in on a U-Turn and setting up.

0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 140 HP / 252+ Def Quark Drive Iron Hands: 156-186 (32.2 - 38.4%) -- 96.3% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 140 HP / 252+ Def Iron Hands in Grassy Terrain: 102-122 (21 - 25.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

+Attack is better, but harder to bring in.

How are you guys handling Zamazenta at the moment? More specifically the Choice Band set which I've been struggling to keep in check. Its speed tier is absurd and its Close Combat combined with its great coverage can be very difficult to switch into, especially if it chooses to terastallize. It also has solid natural bulk to make revenge killing attempts quite difficult.
I have two Flying-type Intimidators and two Ghost-types. Gholdengo can also Trick it Choice Specs.
I'm not specifically preparing for Zamazenta, that's just how I built the team.
 

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How are you guys handling Zamazenta at the moment? More specifically the Choice Band set which I've been struggling to keep in check. Its speed tier is absurd and its Close Combat combined with its great coverage can be very difficult to switch into, especially if it chooses to terastallize. It also has solid natural bulk to make revenge killing attempts quite difficult.
I've been playing with band Zamazenta a bit lately, and here are a few things I noticed being fairly annoying to it:
-Ghosts types :dragapult: :gholdengo: :marowak-alola: can be quite threatening as they take advantage of Zamazenta once it is locked into Close Combat, and these are mons you do not want to give free turns to in general. They also usually are annoying from preview since you have to take into account the fact that your opponent might decide to make the ballsy move of sending the ghost directly into against it, predicting CC - even though Crunch can be easily clickable as well in certain situations. Specs Pult also can engage into sack wars against Zamazenta late game.

-Scarf Tapu Lele :tapu lele: outspeed it and revenges it. In theory it could try to switch into Close Combat once but don't do that unless you really need to lol, especially since it still takes 40-50 from band cc through the quad resist. Rain stuff are also able to revenge it with very little chip, or after a CC drop. However rain still loses very hard to tera water ID press, though I honestly don't know how good/common this set is in general.

-Zapdos :Zapdos: deserve a mention because not only very defensive spreads can avoid the 2hko from anything Zamazenta can throw at it but also threatens it with paralysis. Other resists are pretty meh from what I saw, especially since they are either forced into passivity as they are immediately forced to click the recovery move, or can be pushed into the 2HKO range if you manage to chip them just a little (Choice Band Tera boosted CC is quite obscene lol), like with rocks for example. Tornadus-Therian is interesting as well : it can't really switch into it even with bulky spread but at least it can 1v1 it. I have never seen physdef Moltres ever but that probably can work too as it is a thing that avoid the 2hko from CC while being able to threaten Zamazenta with Flame Body.

To be honest tho, none of these (besides Zapdos maybe) really prevents it from going hard every game it's in, as it still is a giga dumb wallbreaker with a 412 speed stat lol. I also noticed that Mega-Tyranitar is a great partner to it, as it is able to to pursuit trap lot of the stuff mentionned above, such as the Ghosts, Tapu Lele if you manage to force them to lock into Psychic (with Toxapex for example), Zapdos and even Tornadus-T sometimes, and can disrupt Rain. Zamazenta is not a huge fan of taking sand chip, but that's something that can be said about some of its checks as well. However I should mention that, in practice, Mega-Tyranitar is also a quite terrible rocker as it often is too busy clicking other moves.
 
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One of the best defensive cores in the tier rn: Rotom-Wash + Ferrothorn + Heatran.
:ss/Rotom_Wash: :ss/Ferrothorn: :ss/Heatran:

This Fire, Water, Grass core is amazing. The defensive prowless in this core is amazing, they all basically can switch in on the whole meta. Rotom-Wash, usually a defogger, rotom can come in on mons like great-tusk, corviknight, heatran, pelipper, swampert-mega, toxapex, volcarona, and will-o, hyrdro, or volt to a breaker. Ferrothorn can spike up, leech seed or knock usually on mons like fini, gholdengo (usually), gren, lando, gliscor, swampert, etc. Heatran is just a great addition to this core due to adding stealth rocks and trapping scary mons for ferrothorn and rotom-wash. I believe this core will be overused alot on teams due to the great defensive power in it.
I think this core is weak to fighting spam, maybe replace one of them with landorus-t?
 
Hi, a question: why is Roaring Moon banned since the beginning of SV despite it being allowed in OU, where it is far from being broken? Does it have an additional advantage here? Was is overrated?

EDIT : Sorry for the message in French, I had translated into English but I copied and pasted what I had written in French by mistake.
 
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Wanted to give a shout out to Chilli Dewd for a well crafted breakdown of sunny day teams. With that in mind, let's explore the other side of the weather spectrum, or at least another facet of it. Having played more of National Dex, I feel I can create a more complete analysis of a certain playstyle.

Sometimes, you aren't feeling all bright and colorful. Sometimes, you are feeling that melancholy and mellowness of a rainy day. But it's not all doom and gloom, because under those rainclouds is a powerful force to use in battle.

This is National Dex Rain.



Rain is a playstyle that lends itself well to doing one thing: abusing Drizzle. Like Drought, rain enables many types of offensive teams who use the rain to drown the opponent. Water types go from solid offensive threats to phenomenal attackers that break walls and swim through defensive cores through sheer firepower, or rainpower if you want to get technical. Besides boosting water attacks by 50%, rain also allows Swift Swimmers to outpace your opponent and provides other nice benefits, such as reducing the power fire moves, allowing for perfect accuracy hurricanes and thunders and giving you the advantage against other weathers. Set rain, switch to abuser, go to town. Sometimes this involves pivoting around your attackers and using a defensive wall of your own to control momentum or it involves just spamming your rain abusers until at least one of them can clean up your opponent’s team. In this regard, it is actually similar to Drag Mag where you just use the same attacking type over and over and try to rip a hole through the opposition.

Just as Chilli Dewd created a ranking system for sun mons, I will do the same for rain mons. Except instead of quirky Woopers, we are using funny Totodiles.Because Feraligatr is my favorite Pokemon and that line deserves more love.
:totodiLUL:
One Totodile means that it is usable but not essential.
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:
Two Totodiles means that it is reliable and viable, capable of helping you succeed most of the time.
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:
Three Totodiles means it is essential for your team and not a mon you should you pass up on in 95% of cases.
:eeveehide:
This sad Eevee means that this is a mon that doesn’t help you and should be avoided, or it is outclassed by a better mon.

First off, lets see the weather setters.

:ss/Pelipper:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:


Pelipper is by far the best rain setter in OU. Not only does it have usable defensive bulk when invested, but it has a great support movepool. Defog gives you hazard control, U-Turn provides pivoting, Knock Off can remove your opponent’s item, Roost is reliable recovery and it even gets Tailwind in case that wasn’t enough. Unfortunately, Pelipper can struggle to switch in on Stealth Rocks and can be worn down as it is unable to hold leftovers due to the necessity of holding Damp Rock to maximize rain turns. It is also rather slow, getting outpaced by almost every offensive threat. And even though it’s defense is pretty solid, it’s special defense is lackluster meaning it will drop to basically any electric attack. However, Pelipper has underrated offensive abilities since it has Hydro Pump, Hurricane and can even run niche moves like Ice Beam on a Choice Specs set to catch your opponent off guard. It can also terastallize itself to make itself more effective either offensively or defensively, but this is usually preferred for Pelipper’s teammates.

:ss/Politoed:
:eeveehide:


Do you miss Gen V OU? Do you have nostalgia for those days when Darkrai and Shaymin Sky were in OU? Because that’s the only real reason you should ever use Politoed. It has exactly two things over Pelipper. It isn’t Stealth Rock weak and it has slightly better defensive stats. That’s it. In every other capacity this frog is hopelessly outclassed by Pelipper. It has no reliable recovery, has worse offensive STAB options, is weak to every other entry hazard in the game, it can’t safely switch in and despite being faster than Pelipper it is still a momentum sink as it can’t do much once its on the field. At least Pelipper can do some nice support utility. I guess if you wanna use Hypnosis or Perish Song, you can use Politoed. But this is not in 95% of most games.But if you wanna use Slippy Toed, than have fun, but don’t bring it to a serious game.

Swift Swim Abusers
:sm/Swampert-Mega:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:


Stat wise, Mega Swampert is the best swift swimmer you can add to your team and the one most people think of. This has incredible typing in the form of Water/Ground which gives it only one weakness and it has all the moves to hit what it needs. Plus it gets Stealth Rock, which can be great to chip down other mons. While slower than some of the other Swift Swimmers, it can still outpace a substantial part of the tier at 438 speed. And that’s with an Adamant Nature mind you. It also gets Superpower to smash Ferrothorn switch ins, or can just use Flip Turn to escape. Liquidation provides defense drops on occasion but Waterfall’s flinch rate is usually better.

:ss/Kingdra:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:


When the rain falls, Kingdra lives up to its name as the King of All Dragons. Kingdra can succeed for several reasons. For one, under rain it can hit 538 speed which allows it to outpace even more threats than Mega Swampert. It can also hit on the Special Side, which is invaluable in allowing the rain team to break past defensive cores that Mega Swampert can struggle to break past such as Slowbro, Tangrowth, arguably even Ferrothorn. For this reason, Kingdra is actually a great partner to pair alongside Mega Swampert as they can help wear down each other’s checks. Draco Meteor will kill absolutely every dragon type in the tier. The only one who could, emphasis on could, survive a hit is Multiscale Dragonite, who is still taking a ton of damage and is outsped even in rain after a boost. And if chipped? Forget it. But the real terror that makes Kingdra a force to be reckoned with is when it uses Terastallize on its Choice Specs set. Tera Water Kingdra can do hurricane catastrophic (pun intended) damage with just Surf in rain, nevermind Hydro Pump. With Hurricane, Ice Beam and Flip Turn as other move options Kingdra is a solid choice. Kingdra’s cons are being very vulnerable to offense outside rain and for being reliant on Choice Specs for damage output, which can be played around even with its tremendous power. The vulnerability to all entry hazards doesn’t help matters and its stats, while solid, can leave something to be desired in some matchups.

:ss/Floatzel:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:


Floatzel is the fastest of the reliable Swift Swimmers and is not to be underestimated. Floatzel’s buoyancy in OU can be attributed to a gift from Arceus Water: Wave Crash. With this, Floatzel can finally abuse its stats on rain to do tremendous damage as a powerful glass cannon. Choice Band and Wave Crash can do very insane feats, like having good odds to 2HKO Ferrothorn in Rain. With an adamant nature, it reaches a blazing speed of 658 which makes it by far a terrifying weapon to go up against. When you get this thing on the field safely, the opponent has to make a choice on what gets chipped hard in the best case and what to sacrifice in the worst case. With Aqua Jet and Ice Spinner, it can hit other targets pretty hard and outspeed every priority attack except Extreme Speed. Oh, and it gets Switcheroo. So physical walls do not want to come in on it either. Floatzel is a terrifying choice for rain. The reason why it is only 2 Totodiles instead of three is that while Floatzel can do crazy damage, it also can’t withstand any hits at all. Floatzel will die to almost anything since it is such a frail glass cannon, vulnerable to almost every priority attack when not locked into Aqua Jet. Wave Crash’s recoil makes it drop even faster. However, the power behind Wave Crash in rain, especially if boosted by Tera Water, makes Floatzel a very solid choice…band Pokemon.

:ss/Barraskewda:
:totodiLUL:


Barraskewda has some nice things going for it, but it is generally outclassed by Floatzel who it plays very similar to. First, the positives. For one, this is the fastest Swift Swimmer of all the Pokemon you can add to your rain team, hitting 742. This will outpace the entire metagame, period. It also has usable moves in Liquidation/Waterfall, Close Combat (a move Floatzel would kill for), Psychic Fangs and Crunch, making it a very reliable choice band mon. However, you know what move it lacks? Yep. Wave Crash. That alone makes it less preferable compared to Floatzel most of the time. However, if you wanted an edge against other Floatzel then you could use Barraskewda. It is certainly capable of being used. Just make sure to know whether or not its higher speed and Close Combat are worth having over Floatzel.

Honorable Swift Swim mentions

:ss/Omastar:
:eeveehide:


Omastar is an interesting Pokemon. Theoretically, it has the potential to be Kingdra but even stronger. It also gets Shell Smash, which under rain, can make this thing a game ender in the right scenario. This isn’t unfeasible. Shed Tail can give you protection, Grimmsnarl can set up screens and parting shot out and you can even run Focus Sash to guarantee set up if hazards aren’t down. However, the cost of using Omastar is high because it isn’t that powerful without Modest nature and it requires a lot of work to get it on the field safely which makes it less reliable. Too much work for a mon that probably won’t do its job anyway, and all of the above strategies could be used to facilitate more reliable sweepers.

:ss/Kabutops:
:eeveehide:


Might as well mention Kabutops while I am at it. Kabutops has a few things going for it. It gets Rapid Spin, it can use Stone Edge as a reliable secondary STAB, it gets Stealth Rock and it can even use Swords Dance if it gets the opportunity. However, Kabutops is like Omastar in that it is set up reliant. For one, it doesn’t hit too hard without a boost and it isn’t very tanky either which means it will likely fall to a strong neutral hit. Swampert has much better defensive typing than Kabutops and can also set up Stealth Rock more reliably. It also struggles compared to Barraskewda who is faster and gets the better Close Combat for fighting coverage.
:ss/Ludicolo:
:eeveehide:


Theoretically, Ludicolo could be used on a rain team. It gets decent STAB in grass and water and has all the moves it needs, including a very shaky Focus Blast. The best selling point it has is the ability to heavily threaten Gastrodon, a mon that many of these rain sweepers otherwise struggle to break. Otherwise, Ludicolo is probably not the best pick as it struggles to fit on teams and against special walls.
:ss/Seismitoad:
:eeveehide:


The only reason to use this mon is because it gives you the same typing as Mega Swampert without taking a Mega Slot. It gets some cool moves like Sludge Wave and Power Whip which could be situationally useful but in general is an inferior choice.
:ss/Gorebyss: :ss/Huntail:
:eeveehide:
:eeveehide:


A worse version of Omastar on either end of the attacking spectrum.Not preferable.

Dishonorable mentions: Poliwrath, Qwilfish, Golduck, Armaldo, Luvdisc (this stupid thing gets Encore), Drednaw, Lumineon, Beartic and anything else I didn’t mention.

Hydro Pumps, Thunders and Hurricanes…oh my!

Swift Swim is a great ability to spam under rain but there is also the opportunity cost of being vulnerable to changes in weather. What if you wanted Water Attackers who can abuse rain without being reliant on rain. Here are some mons that you can add to your squad in case you liked their over offensive traits. Here are some mons that stand out.

:ss/Greninja:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:


It should not come as a surprise that Greninja is an amazing Pokemon on its own merits, with either Protean or the potential havoc of Battle Bond. Dark and Water is a great offensive STAB combination that hits the entire tier very hard. Water Shuriken is a great move to pick off weakened foes and Hydro Pump is very strong under rain. Plus, if willing to run the Z move, Waterium Z is a catastrophic attack under rain that can rip a massive hole in a defensive core. Dark Pulse hits many things neutrally and the few things that can resist it are not able to switch in safely. With U Turn, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Gunk Shot, Ice Beam and even Rock Slide Greninja is capable of abusing rain very well. Entry hazards are amazing under rain as they pressure anything not named Clodsire and make pivoting around rain dangerous when not using HDB. Definitely a worthy mon for a rain team.

:ss/Tornadus-Therian:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:


Tornadus Therian is incredible under rain. Hurricane is always a nice option for extra power, but thanks to Scarlet and Violet it doesn’t even need to use it thanks to Bleakwind Storm. This allows Tornadus to throw out a powerful and reliable flying STAB without needing rain on the field, which is perfect for the heavy duty boots set. It is the best defogger on rain which can easily pivot in and threaten defog. It also has Knock Off to dissuade Gholdengo from coming in safely and even if it does come in, it can easily abuse regenerator and try again later. To round things off, it gets Heatwave to threaten heavy damage on Ferrothorn or even Focus Blast to smack Tyranitar hard. It’s offensive and defensive utility make it a must have on rain.
:ss/Dragapult:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:


This might seem weird but Dragapult can do nice things under rain. For one, it gets to add Hydro Pump to its coverage which will do very strong damage thanks to the rain. This is especially nice on the Choice Specs set as this provides an amazing fourth move to add in addition to Draco Meteor, Shadow Ball and U-Turn. Even without Choice Specs. Thunder is another great option to fire off thanks to the perfect accuracy it gets, shredding through would be checks in Toxapex and Corviknight. Definitely a solid choice for rain. It doesn’t need rain, but it certainly helps with sweeping.
:ss/Urshifu-Rapid-Strike:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:


Like many of the other mons on this list, Urshifu is a great choice as a physical attacker. Surging Strikes + Close Combat provides very powerful damage output that can OHKO Ferrothorn outright with Stealth Rock, a feat that makes this a potent choice for wallbreaking. U Turn and Aqua Jet help you with certain matchups such as Kingambit trying to use Sucker Punch. Definitely a solid addition, but one that doesn’t add much defensively to the team. Plus, using this means not having Floatzel usually which can be a drawback, though this can be worked around based on how you teambuild.

:ss/Tapu Koko:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:


The best of the Tapus for rain, by far. Tapu Koko compromises nearly nothing by slotting Thunder into its moveset and it turns its Gigavolt Havoc into a nuke under electric terrain. With U Turn, Dazzling Gleam and Volt Switch, Tapu Koko can help add offensive pressure on the other team and will help provide offensive pivoting that rain can greatly appreciate. Electric Terrain also cancels Psychic Terrain which is important to allow teammates like Floatzel and Urshifu to use their priority attacks without being slowed down. While it offers very little defensive merit, a dragon immunity is nice and it adds enough offensive pressure to make do.

:ss/Manaphy:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:


Do I even need to explain why Manaphy is great under rain? Tail Glow alone makes this thing scary to face down, but it even has Calm Mind for a bulkier approach and Rest for reliable recovery under rain. The only thing that holds back is its movepool limitations. Running rest cuts out a coverage move and running Tail Glow/Calm Mind does this as well. For move choice, you have Surf and usually Ice Beam or Energy Ball depending on how many moves you have. Niche moves like Shadow Ball, Psychic and Dazzling Gleam are also options. With good all around stats, Manaphy is a fine attacker.

:ss/Zapdos:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:


Zapdos is a combination of Tornadus and Tapu Koko. Strong offensive options in Thunder, Weather Ball, Volt Switch, Hurricane and Heat wave and some nice defensive qualities like static, roost and defog. Playing Zapdos means usually having a mix of these roles rather than the defined roles of its counterparts. However, Zapdos is not bad by any means and can certainly be used on rain. Use Zapdos to its strengths and you can do well, but only when you are sure that using Tapu Koko or Tornadus is less useful for your team.

:sm/Manectric-Mega:
:totodiLUL:


Mega Manectric is not a bad Pokemon at all and it can certainly function on a rain team. The downside to using it though is that you don’t get Mega Swampert which is a huge con. However, Manectric can play mind games against your opponent using an electric attack thanks to lightningrod as its pre Mega ability and when on the field it adds some nice characteristics. Intimidate is a decent ability and it has good enough Special attack to easily OHKO many offensive variants of Landorus Therian. Plus it gets Overheat for Ferrothorn. The last of the mons I’m going to highlight as usable and only barely.

:ss/Starmie:
:eeveehide:


Starmie has a few nice things, mostly Rapid Spin and good coverage. Beyond that it is worse than all the other Pokemon I have listed thus far. You gotta give credit for Starmie lasting in its viability for as long as it has, but this is just a mon that dies to too many things and will be a liability more than an asset. Also losing hard to Greninja does no favors.

:sv/Quaquaval:
:eeveehide:


This one makes me sad a little and it isn’t unusable, but it’s just an inferior Urshifu that requires a turn of Aqua Step to be effective most of the time. Though you can probably get away with a Moxie Life Orb set, you can likely accomplish more with Urshifu Rapid Strike. Which is why this starter, though very cool, isn’t recommended most of the time.

:ss/Volcarona:
:eeveehide:


Before all the bug enthusiasts try to crucify me, let me just say this. Is Volcarona bad? No. Is there an opportunity cost to using Volcarona on a team that will be using rain most of the time? Yes. Hurricane is nice but other mons like Kingdra abuse rain better and also get Hurricane. I guess if you ran a Sun/Rain team then Volcarona is perfect. Otherwise don’t bother. Even niche mons like Mega Manectric can deal with Ferrothorn more easily and provide more offensive pressure.
:ss/Crawdaunt:
:eeveehide:


The reason I don’t have Basculin on this list but this thing instead is because of the one niche this thing can apply: Trick Room. Trick Room and Rain is a fun idea and thanks to Tera, this thing has the means to work. But so many things hold it back. Anything this thing can do, Floatzel probably does better, nevermind Greninja with the same typing or Urshifu with arguably better typing.
:ss/Azumarill:
:eeveehide:


Belly Drum and Aqua Jet with Tera Water seems funny but realistically you’re never gonna get to do that. You’re also helpless against Toxapex. There are better options than Azumarill.
:sv/Veluza:
:eeveehide:
:eeveehide:


Just…. No. Don’t. Seriously. Don’t even try. Fish n Chips tastes good…. But Omastar is a far better choice. And Omastar is bad. So don’t even think of using this stupid gimmick.

Defensive Puddles and Rocks

Rain tends to provoke offensive playstyles, but sometimes defense is the best offense. And rain sometimes needs a defensive mon to switch to in order to prevent getting counterswept or sniped by something else on the opponent’s team. Pelipper can’t take on everything and needs some defensive components for your team if you want to be consistent. Lets close this out with the best defensive mons for rain. Before I begin, let me just emphasize that Tornadus Therian and Zapdos are not on this list but add amazing defensive qualities that are useful. So definitely look at them as defensive additions as well.

:ss/Ferrothorn:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:


Ferrothorn loved Kyogre as a parent, so it makes perfect sense that it loves Pelipper as an older sibling. Having its fire weakness reduced has the potential to make this an unbreakable wall that the other team will often hate dealing with. Knock Off is likely the only offensive move you need, but Gyro Ball/Iron Head and Power Whip have great surprise factor. Defensively, we have Stealth Rock, Spikes, Leech Seed, Thunder Wave, Protect and even Substitute. Leech Seed in particular harrasses the opponent with Protect and gives some things like Mega Swampert the slightest chance to get some more HP. Easily the best defensive pivot for rain and a must have.

:ss/Gastrodon:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:


Gastrodon is nice for rain, beyond just giving it a boosted Scald Attack. It works to help counter other rain teams thanks to Storm Drain and combined with Ferrothorn this is a defensive core that can be very difficult to break if you can predict just right. It has Mega Swampert’s great typing and also has the means to annoy your opponent by taking some special hits. Toxic and Spikes are great to throw out. Just watch out for grass types and getting tricked.

:ss/Rotom Wash:
:totodiLUL:
:totodiLUL:


Rotom Wash has good qualities. It has Levitate which Tapu Koko and Mega Manectric would kill for and with Hydro Pump it has great reliable stab in rain. Adding a grass weakness isn’t the best but you are doing that anyway, and Will o Wisp ruins a cocky Rillaboom that thinks it can come in for free as does Trick (well, not really) but occasionally. Good for pivoting and it provides enough reason that warrants it as a decent addition for your team.

:ss/Toxapex:
:totodiLUL:


Toxapex can be useful under rain as it is the one poison type that doesn’t compromise your teambuilding and helps you deal with Glimmora’s Toxic Debris. Like Gastrodon it appreciates having Scald boosted by rain and can deal with certain sweepers with Haze and Baneful Bunker. However, it’s defensive presence is actually reduced somewhat in that your team is stacked full of other water types usually, so it can be fairly passive. Still, it has enough reason to be used and can function on rain if you have enough pressure of your own to make up for it. Also, use this over Toxicroak or Tentacruel. Please.

:ss/Corviknight:
:totodiLUL:


Corviknight is just as usable as any wall, and like Ferrothorn it enjoys fire attacks being weakened. However, it’s a slower defogger than Tornadus Therian, lacks regenerator and doesn’t provide much that benefits rain compared to other mons. This is also a redundant mon with Ferrothorn on your team and you generally wanna have just Ferrothorn, not Ferro plus Corviknight.
:ss/Blissey: and :ss/Chansey: :
:totodiLUL:


These are probably the walls outside of things I mentioned that you can use to the greatest effect. Special walls are always nice for Fire Insurance and they have good utility moves. However, they don’t really benefit from the faster pace of games you expect from a rain team and you’re not gonna want to give your opponent the chance to seize momentum due to their passivity. Some people probably rank these higher but I don’t think they work for this style.

:ss/Cradily:
:eeveehide:

Cradily is like Gastrodon except it beats other Gastrodon. Except its usually worse off in every other characteristic. It doesn’t get anything that Gastrodon can’t do better so usually isn’t preferable for a serious game. There are better walls to use.

:ss/Amoonguss:
:eeveehide:


Regenerator and Spore are always nice but beyond that Amonguss isn’t very viable. You basically give Torkoal a free switch in even with Spore and you aren’t going to be doing much pressure. Again, use Ferrothorn over this grass type.

Final thoughts

Rain is a strong playstyle. It has a lot of things going for it. Is rain perfect? No. There are definitely ways that rain can be overcome or stalled out. A well prepared team will have at least some good chance to fight rain. But you can also prepare yourself to make as much of a splash as you can and rank as high as you can. I tried to cover everything I could and I’m sure I am missing stuff, but I am only able to do so much on my own. So long as rain is allowed, this has been my best attempt to give you a forecast of the types of battles you can expect to lead.

Thanks so much for all those who helped me write this, giving me feedback and providing good ideas on what to include. This has been fun to do and I am glad to have been involved with the exploration of the rainy days. Look forward to seeing how the meta progresses. Go buy an umbrella and have fun out there. Here are some rain teams to get you started. Feel free to adapt these to your needs.

Sample Teams

Go To Rain Team
Battle Bond Greninja + Tapu Koko
Swift Swim Spam
Zapdos + Manaphy
Mega Manectric Team
Dragapult Team
 
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Sulo

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Barraskewda has some nice things going for it, but it is generally outclassed by Floatzel who it plays very similar to. First, the positives. For one, this is the fastest Swift Swimmer of all the Pokemon you can add to your rain team, hitting 742. This will outpace the entire metagame, period. It also has usable moves in Liquidation/Waterfall, Close Combat (a move Floatzel would kill for), Psychic Fangs and Crunch, making it a very reliable choice band mon. However, you know what move it lacks? Yep. Wave Crash. That alone makes it less preferable compared to Floatzel most of the time. However, if you wanted an edge against other Floatzel then you could use Barraskewda. It is certainly capable of being used. Just make sure to know whether or not its higher speed and Close Combat are worth having over Floatzel.
Not really gonna comment on most of the other guide, but there are 100% reasons to use Barraskewda. Flip Turn + the Speed it has makes it a pretty considerable (and good) slot on rain, with it being able to consistently chip answers to it into range of an attack, bring in a teammate like Mega Swampert, or simultaneously wallbreak and pivot with how strong Flip Turn is in rain, having little reliable switch-ins with recovery (best I can think of is Mega Latias, but that mon sucks) I honestly think they're about the same level, if not Floatzel being slightly better. Wave Crash having massive downsides into Ferrothorn and being unable to touch Gastrodon (unlike Barraskewda, who's able to do solid damage w CC on the switch) are some things to consider regarding its place on rain.

With the set you provided, if you ever click Switcheroo, you're sacrificing a large portion of your power in the long run, which is often no bueno.
 
:sv/iron jugulis:

Iron Jugulis @ Choice Specs
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast / Earth Power
- U-turn

this guy definitely has a niche in rain, specs tera flying hurricanes off a spatk stat much higher than tornadus's hurt quite a lot, 2hkoing everything not called blissey/a specially bulky resist, which are quite rare as zapdos is always physdef, things like ttar and treads aren't that common and gholdengo doesn't enjoy dark pulse much. this leaves you with a spammable fully accurate STAB that can even fish for confusion against some checks (for example, if you don't tera clodsire isn't 2HKOed but has to spam recovery and a single confusion hit kills it).

oh yeah, and it has great synergy with another very good rain mon in koko, which helps having something to pressure clod and ferro, sets up electric terrain to force you to use a faster scarfer/another swift swimmer to RK it and can bait in ground moves for it. helps in revenging weavile too because ice shard sucks for jugulis. in return, taking a hit from mega lopunny and killing it in return is nice, especially as tera flying makes you resist its strongest move.
 

Sputnik

Bono My Tires are Deceased
is a Contributor Alumnus
Hi just wanted to put this thing on the radar because I haven't seen it talked about much at all.

:ss/espathra:

Yesterday this mon came up in conversation on the discord and I asked the same question in a couple of channels: What actually consistently answers Espathra?

The only answer that I got consistently and didn't incite debate as to whether it was an answer or not was Tera Dark Clodsire. (Edit: adem has brought Whirlwind Ting-Lu to my attention which also works but doesn't really change the general point of the post very much.)

That's it.

For those who don't know, you pair this thing with Screens Koko on HO, give it an Elec seed, Tera Water (or Steel/Fighting but those aren't as consistent imo) and then CM/Roost/Stored Power/Tera Blast (or DGleam but I think Tera Blasts are better). To say it becomes an absolute monster would be an understatement. This thing has snowball potential that I haven't seen since the CM Mage sets and Smashtoise days of Gen 8, and it genuinely might be more dangerous than those two if played correctly.

What makes it even more busted is how easy it is to support and facilitate a sweep. Screens Koko is a perfect partner for multiple reasons, and that's not even all it has going for it. Cyclizar can pass Subs to it and make beating it defensively even harder. Gambit helps out against Pult, which can irritate that core if it gets a DD off, and is just good on HO anyway. Mega Gyarados is a fun option with it too, as it beats most of what Espa doesn't like, also benefits from Cyc, and works well in an HO core with another physical attacker. I haven't tried Lucha with it yet but I think it could theoretically be really good as it also benefits from Koko and covers bad matchups well with its Fighting STAB. Other options include your own Pult, Dnite, basically any other physical attacker that could slot into the offensive core. The real star is Espa tho, the thing is absolute bonkers and is a higher priority than Pult, Zama, or any of our other brokens imo.

Curious what others think about it.
 
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Hi just wanted to put this thing on the radar because I haven't seen it talked about much at all.

:ss/espathra:

Yesterday this mon came up in conversation on the discord and I asked the same question in a couple of channels: What actually consistently answers Espathra?

The only answer that I got consistently and didn't incite debate as to whether it was an answer or not was Tera Dark Clodsire. (Edit: adem has brought Whirlwind Ting-Lu to my attention which also works but doesn't really change the general point of the post very much.)

That's it.

For those who don't know, you pair this thing with Screens Koko on HO, give it an Elec seed, Tera Water (or Steel/Fighting but those aren't as consistent imo) and then CM/Roost/Stored Power/Tera Blast (or DGleam but I think Tera Blasts are better). To say it becomes an absolute monster would be an understatement. This thing has snowball potential that I haven't seen since the CM Mage sets and Smashtoise days of Gen 8, and it genuinely might be more dangerous than those two if played correctly.

What makes it even more busted is how easy it is to support and facilitate a sweep. Screens Koko is a perfect partner for multiple reasons, and that's not even all it has going for it. Cyclizar can pass Subs to it and make beating it defensively even harder. Gambit helps out against Pult, which can irritate that core if it gets a DD off, and is just good on HO anyway. Mega Gyarados is a fun option with it too, as it beats most of what Espa doesn't like, also benefits from Cyc, and works well in an HO core with another physical attacker. I haven't tried Lucha with it yet but I think it could theoretically be really good as it also benefits from Koko and covers bad matchups well with its Fighting STAB. Other options include your own Pult, Dnite, basically any other physical attacker that could slot into the offensive core. The real star is Espa tho, the thing is absolute bonkers and is a higher priority than Pult, Zama, or any of our other brokens imo.

Curious what others think about it.
Ye, me no like Espathra.
 
i have a question, if tera gets banned, what will change in the meta (specifically which mons will fall and rise and also how you guys are preparing for that) or will the meta stay the same?
 
i have a question, if tera gets banned, what will change in the meta (specifically which mons will fall and rise and also how you guys are preparing for that) or will the meta stay the same?
Tera will likely not get banned for a long time given the previous suspect test wasn't too long ago. Most likely weather teams will take a hit as well as defensive mons that really like having the option to change typing like Skeledirge and Garganacl. There are a few offensive Pokemon that really need tera like Espathra or Dragonite that would drop significantly, but overall it's hard to say what the metagame will look like because almost all top Pokemon can use tera to a decent extent. Nevertheless I think it is safe to say the general power level would decrease significantly and it would make counterplay more consistent.
 
Tera will likely not get banned for a long time given the previous suspect test wasn't too long ago. Most likely weather teams will take a hit as well as defensive mons that really like having the option to change typing like Skeledirge and Garganacl. There are a few offensive Pokemon that really need tera like Espathra or Dragonite that would drop significantly, but overall it's hard to say what the metagame will look like because almost all top Pokemon can use tera to a decent extent. Nevertheless I think it is safe to say the general power level would decrease significantly and it would make counterplay more consistent.
diirge is good w tera but i dont think is banworthy
 

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