Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion

[Isza]

Since WC is over going to drop my takes on the meta(in tournament play) since I won't be touching it till NDPL.

Open

The 3 best set up sweepers in the tier, each for different reasons. Volcarona can run about 10 different sets althoughI think HP ground, flame, giga drain is the best coverage. Gliscor and Cress are both super obnoxious to revenge for obvious reasons. If you're looking for a wincon on your team these are your best 3./SPOILER]

Open

Offense is the best playstyle in ND without question. With the surplus of options Its hard for Fat, BU, or stall to ever cover everything. Thats not to imply these playstyles aren't viable I just believe offense is the most consistent.

Open

Noob trap, I don't think these structures are terrible. If you're just starting out in tournaments or feel your opponentisnt good enough to break its a good bring. However, your chances against more established players is slim seeing how linear playing these teams are.

Open

The best removal in the tier. Everything else is either unviable or very mid. Lando is a mention but having your defensive pivot also defog gives big SS OU vibes.

 

[montegom]

I am relatively new in this tier, and I possibly have no knowledge about it (moreover, I am from Spain, so you may don't fully understand my sentences), but I want to talk about rain abusers (or weather abusers in general). I didn't want to mention Tera in every one of my arguments in support of playing rain teams, but I have no option.

Weather setter

The only rain setter of the tier, you really don't need more. Good moveset (U-turn, Defog, Scald and Roost), allowing it to pivot, eliminate hazards (I don't think it is good for this because it is crippled by rocks, but I have always seen Defog in the movesets Pelipper uses), cripple physical attackers and cure itself. Wait, isn't Pelipper x4 weak to Electric? Well, you are forgetting it can Terastallize into Ground type and become immune to Electric-type attacks, what an incredible mechanic. Also it is quite easy to select his partners, every rain abuser you can imagine fits well with Pelipper. And here is where it gets interesting.

Rain abusers
Water types:
These Pokémon are a big headache, at least in low ladder (where I came from). Their abilities + buffed STAB attacks, make them unwieldy threats. ¿How can you stop them? Maybe some Grass-types like , which can't switch-in against none of them due to its low defensive stats; or , maybe; but for me it's not that easy when these monstrous attackers have rich movesets and access to moves like Ice Punch (do I have to say it could become STAB if you Terrastalize?) or CC, among many other coverage options.

Zapdos;
Thunder and Hurricane, STAB 110 BP 100% accuracy, Weather Ball 100 BP 100% accuracy... what the hell is this? Good ability against physical sweepers, recovery... Must be in every rain team no doubt.

What are the main counters to rain? Maybe other weather setters/abusers like Charizard-Y with Solar Beam, surely no sand abusers; maybe Trick Room, but it is usable in the tier? . Do you think rain teams are powerfull in this tier? ¿Will they be strong if we ban Tera? I am looking forward to see more competitive and expert people's opinon.

 

[Nish the Great]

I am relatively new in this tier, and I possibly have no knowledge about it (moreover, I am from Spain, so you may don't fully understand my sentences), but I want to talk about rain abusers (or weather abusers in general). I didn't want to mention Tera in every one of my arguments in support of playing rain teams, but I have no option.

Weather setter

The only rain setter of the tier, you really don't need more. Good moveset (U-turn, Defog, Scald and Roost), allowing it to pivot, eliminate hazards (I don't think it is good for this because it is crippled by rocks, but I have always seen Defog in the movesets Pelipper uses), cripple physical attackers and cure itself. Wait, isn't Pelipper x4 weak to Electric? Well, you are forgetting it can Terastallize into Ground type and become immune to Electric-type attacks, what an incredible mechanic. Also it is quite easy to select his partners, every rain abuser you can imagine fits well with Pelipper. And here is where it gets interesting.

Rain abusers
Water types:
These Pokémon are a big headache, at least in low ladder (where I came from). Their abilities + buffed STAB attacks, make them unwieldy threats. ¿How can you stop them? Maybe some Grass-types like , which can't switch-in against none of them due to its low defensive stats; or , maybe; but for me it's not that easy when these monstrous attackers have rich movesets and access to moves like Ice Punch (do I have to say it could become STAB if you Terrastalize?) or CC, among many other coverage options.

Zapdos;
Thunder and Hurricane, STAB 110 BP 100% accuracy, Weather Ball 100 BP 100% accuracy... what the hell is this? Good ability against physical sweepers, recovery... Must be in every rain team no doubt.

What are the main counters to rain? Maybe other weather setters/abusers like Charizard-Y with Solar Beam, surely no sand abusers; maybe Trick Room, but it is usable in the tier? . Do you think rain teams are powerfull in this tier? ¿Will they be strong if we ban Tera? I am looking forward to see more competitive and expert people's opinon.

Rain has always been a pretty good but not meta defining threat since SM OU. Tera definetely makes rain teams way more stupid with barraskewda and basculegion deleting all but the bulkiest water resists, so while it’s legal, you probably want to have a very physically bulky water resist, or something that can tera into one. Try to play as aggressively as possible when the rain runs out so you can go for damage on pelliper or rocks as it resets rain.

Good rain counters

Water immunities in general beat rain really well, but they’re hard to fit
Physically defensive rocky helmet is best. Don’t get into ferrothorn vs ferrothorn wars, try to save it for their tera abuser
Just switch it directly into pelliper every time. Same for ttar/hippo/torkoal/alolantales
Toxapex
Watch for mswamp ice punch
Subroost in particular obliterates rain, but any set with freeze dry will do
Same as the other weather setters
Tera water does really well since rain doesn’t really take salt cure at all

 

[mcooper527666]

On an unrelated note: do you think Tera would be more balanced is it required an item slot Ala mega stones and a crystals?

 

[about15guys]

well shit

 

[sealoo]

definitely gonna be interesting to see how the tier goes from here. The inevitable Tera resus held up a lot of potential tiering action and now a lot of things will fly. Personally I think Gholdengo needs to be wiped off the face of the Earth as well as Gambit. Glhf!!!

 

[ezra]

All anique's fault

 

[LORD SAGIS]

LOL I PREDICTED IT. I told you fuckers to get rid of the ban tera option or else its waste. Anyway nice to see the anti redditor league taking the dub once again.

 

[swagapult]

RIP Natdex, had a lot of fun playing the tier tbh but I refuse to play any singles tier keeping Tera allowed, the mechanic is a mess. Hopefully Ubers bans it or something idk... Gambit is incredibly broken btw idk how that thing is legal.

 

[Mada]

I don't even play the tier and I care that much that I didn't even did the suspect but as I constantly see friends discussing about it, you guys really are crazy for keeping a whole game-changing mechanic for literally 5 guys that want to keep it when there is clear proof of manipulation, if you restricted the suspect to qualified people like the council + people in semis+finals of NDWC I would be surprised to see more than a couple of votes to actually don't ban the tera, you should just straight up ban it and make a ND Tera Ladder for the 2 Chinese guys and 3 other people to play with it

 

[Ryuji]

I don't even play the tier and I care that much that I didn't even did the suspect but as I constantly see friends discussing about it, you guys really are crazy for keeping a whole game-changing mechanic for literally 5 guys that want to keep it when there is clear proof of manipulation, if you restricted the suspect to qualified people like the council + people in semis+finals of NDWC I would be surprised to see more than a couple of votes to actually don't ban the tera, you should just straight up ban it and make a ND Tera Ladder for the 2 Chinese guys and 3 other people to play with it

based.

 

[Oculars]

shoutout all the 2 post (reqs and vote thread) accounts carrying the dnb vote, truly the backbone of the natdex community.

Also lemme get uhhhhhhhhhhh gen8 ndou ladder plz.

 

[not adam lol]

please bring back gen8nd ladder

 

[bigasschungusboi]

LMFAO Ya'll really dug your own graves with this shit. lmfaoo ND is going to be a chaotic meta until the moderators put their foot down, but eyy, the players don't want it gone. Hopefully we can stop pandering and just clear this shite up once and for all before another big ND tour is marred by this.

 

[What should by name be?]

Make National Dex an OM

 

[RustOverLord]

i honestly think this metagame is fried in a matter of months.

natdex was already absolutely fucking stuffed with scenarios where you lose 6-0 on lead to a single mon, with the reason being that the meta was so fucking chock full of mons that you just quite literally cannot have an answer to some things no matter what. now ur telling me a bunch of tera-crutching clowns that would be hardstuck 1100's if not for tera decided that a mechanic that blows said problem to a ridiculous level should actually stay. 55%~ of the vote went to ban and yet tera is going to fucking stay, imagine that. good to know that a majority vote on such a massive vote doesnt mean shit i guess. now a majority of the (actually competent) community is stuck with a meta that is just borderline unplayable 'cause a load of shitters decided to gut this meta by farming genwunner teams in low ladder to get reqs.

GG

 

[Da Pizza Man]

There is more salt in this thread than the Dead Sea

 

[awyp]

Shoutout to China

 

[Bka Onon]

gg guys
we fought
we lost
anyway everyone welcome to natdex monotype!

 

[1LDK]

Based, tera wins again
Seems like a good time to get on the meta, what's a good noobs team, valiant + koko + moth + gambit + lando + sneasler + filler? Dragon spam? chesnaught bo? How we feeling people

 

[Oculars]

Top tour players should seriously consider doing a Gentlemans Agreement on tera moving forward until this whole situation is sorted, I can easily see the majority of NDPL teams mutually agreeing not to use tera. These sort of GA's exist in several esports where the pros have disagreements with the rule set the developers have chosen and add additional unenforced bans on top of the actual rules.

 

[Bka Onon]

doubling down on oculars and brought this up in ndou room but whenever ndpl happens, yall most definetely want a teraless ndou slot to even get signups for the tour ngl

 

[uppa]

are the feelings around tera really that much different in china? its weird that that swayed the vote so much considering almost everyone who is *actually* qualified unanimously agrees tera is a shit mechanic that shouldnt exist in a competitive game.

 

[BigFatMantis]

s/o Unowndragon you are a legend.

I'll learn and play NDOU w/ tera for NDPL if the tier needs players. Natdex is fun though, I think everyone has to get over the fact that Tera is here to stay and maybe start making some progress to move the tier forward instead of lamenting on this now moot point. Oh and there's nothing wrong with someone gathering up their buds to help preserve something being suspected - that happens quite frequently actually and as long as they are all getting reqs legitimately (which honestly quite a few people who are complaining in this thread DIDN'T do) then it's all fair game.

If you care about something enough, you will do what's required to help with the decision. I consider tera to just be part of the game and it's fine, just learn to play with it and, especially now since it's here to stay, think about how to make the tier better with tera not going anywhere.

 

[TheTraininator]

are the feelings around tera really that much different in china? its weird that that swayed the vote so much considering almost everyone who is *actually* qualified unanimously agrees tera is a shit mechanic that shouldnt exist in a competitive game.

And what do you mean by actually qualified, exactly? Because the people who actually qualified for the suspect test voted in favor of keeping it.