Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion

[Red Raven]

With HOME dropping tomorrow, I figured I'd give my thoughts on what the new Hisuian Forms would do for the metagame, alongside a brief ranking for each

So, would anyone in the forums want to enlighten this kind person or shall I do it?

 

[about15guys]

well fuck me ig

regardless, I updated the post

 

[Aera]

Final List:
S -
A -
B -
C -
D -

Just wanted to give my own thoughts on a few of these picks. I'll preface this by saying I don't think anything ranked B or below will be viable in natdex OU and therefore I won't bother too much with their placements.

I personally would put Ursaluna and Sneasler in S tier as most likely to have a significant metagame impact. First I'd have to address a mistake in your post saying Ursaluna is Steel/Ground. It is actually Normal/Ground giving it STAB on its already strong Facade. Ursaluna is indeed slow but its bulk really shouldn't be underestimated as it can live just about any neutral hit. In return its STABs are so powerful that even against offensive teams it can at least trade 1v1. it becomes even scarier against bulky teams where it can be expected to grab at least 2 or even 3 KOs. I honestly think Ursaluna is one of the most likely to get banned of all the Hisui Pokemon.
Second we have Sneasler, another big contender for receiving the ban hammer. I've seen many people already hypothesize on the effectiveness of Unburden sets, and while I definitely see those being powerful I believe Choice Band with Poison Touch could also be very deadly against any team without a Poison type. Zamazenta has already shown us how powerful a 120 attack Choice Band Close Combat can be and Sneasler ramps that up to 130 base attack. Zamazenta is indeed faster but it has a tendency to thud into resists. With access to U-Turn to maintain momentum and Dire Claw in conjunction with Poison Touch, Sneasler can pretty safely punish switch ins with a 30% chance to poison on Close Combat or U-Turn or even a whopping 65% chance to status with Dire Claw when factoring in Poison Touch, allowing it to slowly wear down its checks.

For A tier I'd pick Liligant and Basculegion. Liligant is an interesting option with Victory Dance and Hustle, with a nice coverage option for flying types in Ice Spinner and the option to run Z-moves to offset the hustle accuracy drop if need be. I don't know exactly how consistent it will be with a somewhat lackluster typing, meager stats and the double-edged sword that is Hustle.
Basculegion I'm not all too thrilled about to be honest. Without Last Respects it lacks a good physical Ghost STAB and its lower speed could be detrimental. We'll have to see if it's possible to give Basculegion Flip Turn once Home drops, but if not I just see it as a Floatzel alternative.
I do not think Arcanine-Hisui will have a metagame impact. Its attacks are indeed strong but we have many strong attackers going around and Arcanine has many flaws to hold it back. Its Rock/Fire is incredibly poor defensively which combined with its below average speed tier of 90 makes it difficult to safely get onto the field. This is compounded by its Stealth Rock weakness which limits its wallbreaking potential even further.
Goodra-Hisui could definitely be an interesting pick with its solid typing and very high special bulk, but I'll have to wait and see how well it can actually use that bulk to help its team.

I won't go over the other mons much because I simply do not think they will have a solid niche in OU but Enamorus also deserves a mention thanks to her strong special attack, Contrary Superpower and good speed tier. The main problem is that she seems almost completely outclassed in OU by Iron Valiant, with the only advantage being her higher special attack stat. I could definitely see her getting quickbanned from natdex UU however.

TLDR:
S:
A:
B:
C: Everything else

 

[KaiZ]

With access to U-Turn to maintain momentum and Dire Claw in conjunction with Poison Touch, Sneasler can pretty safely punish switch ins with a 30% chance to poison or even a whopping 65% chance to status with Dire Claw, slowly wearing them down.

A little nitpick here but it's actually 60% for dire claw

 

[Aera]

A little nitpick here but it's actually 60% for dire claw

I mean Dire Claw in conjunction with Poison Touch. A 50% chance to activate Dire Claw and then 30% for Poison Touch if Dire Claw did not activate, resulting in an overall 65% chance to active either of the two. I do see it's a bit confusing though so I'll edit the original message.

 

[KaiZ]

I mean Dire Claw in conjunction with Poison Touch. A 50% chance to activate Dire Claw and then 30% for Poison Touch if Dire Claw did not activate, resulting in an overall 65% chance to active either of the two. I do see it's a bit confusing though so I'll edit the original message.

Ah ok I get it now ty, also switcheroo band sneasler is a massive one trick pony set mon to me as a (kind of?) pex counter since pex is usually special

 

[I am New]

With HOME dropping tomorrow soon™, I figured I'd give my thoughts on what the new Hisuian Forms would do for the metagame, alongside a brief ranking for each

S - New metagame staples, whether it be though utility or offensive prowess, these are the mons to look out for in the new metagame
A - Solid picks, that have good traits but also have drawbacks or other issues holding them back
B - Niche options that may see some use, but have serious drawbacks or other qualities that make them undesirable
C - Bad options that generally shouldn't be used, little to no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and bad picks all-around
D - Worst of the worst, never ever use these options

A - pretty solid midspeed breaker, while 115 attack isn't anything special, rock head alongside its access to flare blitz and head smash mean this could throw a wrench into common metagame mons, especially those on slower teams

D - terrible pokemon, its got all the same issues that regular avalugg has, except worse in every regard. It's a defensive mon with the single worst defensive dual type in the game, terrible special bulk and a useless signature move

S - this is a pokemon to look out for. obviously with access to last respects it'd be turbo broken, but assuming last respects gets banned this mon would find a comfy home on rain teams as their main breaker. while slower than floatzel, its still got a great speed tier in rain alongside a second potent stab in ghost, a much higher hp stat allowing it to spam wave crash more, and slightly higher base attack elevating it to a level above floatzel. be ready for this mon to punch holes in unprepared teams and a general thorn in the side for builders

C - on paper this looks like a pretty solid option, 112 spa is nothing to scoff at, especially with access to sheer force, but the cripplingly low speed tier alongside middling bulk and a weakness to dark makes this an all around ok mon, scarfed tinted lens sets could potentially be interesting, but as a whole I don't think this mon is that good

B - triple arrows looks neat, but the statline shoehorns it into trick room teams so it's not getting much usage. again, could be an interesting scarfer, especially with triple arrows' secondary effects but nothing too crazy

D - who

B - seems ok at best, on paper a fairy type contrary user with a solid speed tier seems good, but sadly the only move she gets that works with contrary is superpower, so it's not going to be that good

C - looking at the stats on this thing, I figured it could be a pretty solid mon on fatter teams, with its good defensive typing and great statline, but unfortunately it's missing both defog and recovery, meaning its not a great option, if for some reason it gets roost and defog when it comes to S/V it could be a very solid option

A - very similar mon to regular goodra, but a valuable steel dual typing could make this a very desirable mon, as 110 spa is still somewhat threatening, especially with it's good movepool

C - rocks aren't that hard to get up right now, and magic bounce/taunt isnt even the most common. its stats also aren't the best, with 135 attack being its only one worth mention, most pokemon can probably just outright outspeed and kill it, just run a consistent rocker like lando-t

S - this thing is scary man, on paper 105 attack isn't that high, but with access to hustle and objectively better dragon dance, this thing is going to be incredibly scary to switch into. absolutely going to require building around in the builder, especially with all the great options it has for its 4th move

B - ok looking pokemon, intimidate on a poison/dark type could see some use on a few teams, but otherwise it looks pretty unremarkable as a whole

C - does not look very usable, while ceasless edge + sharpness seems like a good combo, its stats are just terrible, poor speed tier and terrible bulk as a whole make this hard to justity using, as most common leads can probably just instantly kill it with a smidgen of offensive investment, only niche it gets is how hard it beats stall

S - s/v's candidate for most annoying mon of all time. while I don't think this'll become too common, it's going to be a right pain in the ass to switch into, with dire claw's frankly absurd secondary effects alongside potent setup options in sd and unburden options w/ seed, it'll see common use on hyper offense teams and looks like a potent late game and gambit answer

B - signature move seems nice, ability to fish for burns on switches is good, but lack of good statline and poor abilities make it situationally usable over regular hex users like dragapult

A - wake up babe new fat mu fish just dropped. jokes aside this looks like an incredibly potent midspeed breaker, ground/steel has good offensive coverage and access to guts and a base attack of 140 makes this thing scary, but not being able to hold an item, taking 6% damage every turn, usable but not impressive bulk and terrible speed tier hold it back a lot, could potentially see use on tr teams but idk how common they'll be

C - psyshield bash is interesting, otherwise unremarkable as a whole, offensive mon hindered by poor speed tier + bad bulk

Final List:
S -
A -
B -
C -
D -

H-brav can run t-lens cm esperwing set which can be absolutely scary. Baby espathra. h-Decid is a really fine defogger mon too as it is a defogger that threatens gholdengo with triple arroes. Sash and pivot variants of kleavor are solid too oh and h-samurrot esp with AV is a really good gholdengo answer. H-sam is easy B ranked mon and kleavor can be around B ranks too.

 

[about15guys]

Just wanted to give my own thoughts on a few of these picks. I'll preface this by saying I don't think anything ranked B or below will be viable in natdex OU and therefore I won't bother too much with their placements.

I personally would put Ursaluna and Sneasler in S tier as most likely to have a significant metagame impact. First I'd have to address a mistake in your post saying Ursaluna is Steel/Ground. It is actually Normal/Ground giving it STAB on its already strong Facade. Ursaluna is indeed slow but its bulk really shouldn't be underestimated as it can live just about any neutral hit. In return its STABs are so powerful that even against offensive teams it can at least trade 1v1. it becomes even scarier against bulky teams where it can be expected to grab at least 2 or even 3 KOs. I honestly think Ursaluna is one of the most likely to get banned of all the Hisui Pokemon.
Second we have Sneasler, another big contender for receiving the ban hammer. I've seen many people already hypothesize on the effectiveness of Unburden sets, and while I definitely see those being powerful I believe Choice Band with Poison Touch could also be very deadly against any team without a Poison type. Zamazenta has already shown us how powerful a 120 attack Choice Band Close Combat can be and Sneasler ramps that up to 130 base attack. Zamazenta is indeed faster but it has a tendency to thud into resists. With access to U-Turn to maintain momentum and Dire Claw in conjunction with Poison Touch, Sneasler can pretty safely punish switch ins with a 30% chance to poison on Close Combat or U-Turn or even a whopping 65% chance to status with Dire Claw when factoring in Poison Touch, allowing it to slowly wear down its checks.

For A tier I'd pick Liligant and Basculegion. Liligant is an interesting option with Victory Dance and Hustle, with a nice coverage option for flying types in Ice Spinner and the option to run Z-moves to offset the hustle accuracy drop if need be. I don't know exactly how consistent it will be with a somewhat lackluster typing, meager stats and the double-edged sword that is Hustle.
Basculegion I'm not all too thrilled about to be honest. Without Last Respects it lacks a good physical Ghost STAB and its lower speed could be detrimental. We'll have to see if it's possible to give Basculegion Flip Turn once Home drops, but if not I just see it as a Floatzel alternative.
I do not think Arcanine-Hisui will have a metagame impact. Its attacks are indeed strong but we have many strong attackers going around and Arcanine has many flaws to hold it back. Its Rock/Fire is incredibly poor defensively which combined with its below average speed tier of 90 makes it difficult to safely get onto the field. This is compounded by its Stealth Rock weakness which limits its wallbreaking potential even further.
Goodra-Hisui could definitely be an interesting pick with its solid typing and very high special bulk, but I'll have to wait and see how well it can actually use that bulk to help its team.

I won't go over the other mons much because I simply do not think they will have a solid niche in OU but Enamorus also deserves a mention thanks to her strong special attack, Contrary Superpower and good speed tier. The main problem is that she seems almost completely outclassed in OU by Iron Valiant, with the only advantage being her higher special attack stat. I could definitely see her getting quickbanned from natdex UU however.

TLDR:
S:
A:
B:
C: Everything else

I feel like you're underestimating basculegion, floatzel a a whole is generally very hard to switch into, but its main limiting factor is its lacking hp stat, basculegion not only gets a secondary stab to spam, it's also got better bulk, and rather notably, a psychic move to hit toxapex (252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Basculegion Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Toxapex: 150-178 (49.3 - 58.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO) and a much better roll into common rain checks like ferrothorn or washtom. It's slightly higher base attack also gives it better mus into rain checks, being able to pick up better rolls or more 2hkos with hazards up. its speed is generally a nonissue, especially with access to swift swim allowing it to outspeed everything relevant that's above 450 under rain.

 

[Aera]

basculegion not only gets a secondary stab to spam, it's also got better bulk, and rather notably, a psychic move to hit toxapex (252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Basculegion Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Toxapex: 150-178 (49.3 - 58.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO)

It does not have a secondary stab to spam as the only physical ghost move it has besides Last Respect is Phantom Force. Psychic Fangs also isn't as useful as it may seem, given it's a horrible move to lock into and tera water Wave Crash hits harder in rain anyways. Also you won't KO Toxapex as it'll just switch out and regenerate a large portion of the damage you dealt.

its speed is generally a nonissue, especially with access to swift swim allowing it to outspeed everything relevant that's above 450 under rain.

Its speed is an issue in the sense that it won't be able to outspeed scarfers like Kartana with Adamant. If you want to outspeed them you'd have to run Jolly which means its damage output is actually on the same level as Floatzel.
I do think it'll overall be better than Floatzel thanks to the ability to more freely spam Wave Crash, but unless Flip Turn becomes an option I don't think it will take rain to new heights, and Basculegion is basically solely relegated to those rain teams. Therefore I do not think it will shake up the meta like Ursaluna or Sneasler will, who do something more unique and will be more splashable.

 

[Jho]

Alright, with all being well we should be getting Home additions today/next few days and as a whole we have decided not to make any tiering changes for the time being, apart from the change to Houndstone and Last Respects. With that being said, I personally still have my eyes on a few of the additions we'll be getting and in the early experimentation of the Home metagame, I would like to see peoples thoughts on a few mons after they drop on the sim


Sneasler is most likely going to be the most impactful home release in my opinion. Its incredibly strong, decently fast, and has a really great movepool. Dire Claw also seems insane if you can alleviate the threat of Steels coming in on it, which Sneasler already discourages with its part Fighting-type. Access to utility options such as U-turn and Switcheroo give it more variety than just Swords Dance + Unburden with E-Seed or White Herb, as Choice Band also seems relatively threatening. Sneasler is most likely also going to be a fantastic abuser of defensive Tera typings such as Steel, as its downside is its abysmal bulk and that limiting its set-up opportunities. Good defensive Tera types will help it overcome this weakness and also give it a resistance to priority from the likes of Lopunny and Dragonite. Overall I think Sneasler is going to have multiple great sets and is well positioned to make an impact on the metagame. This is my most likely target of tiering action.


Despite the change from Houndstone's ban to a Last Respects ban, I'm still expecting Basculegion to be very good. It hits harder then Flotazel and Barraskewda and is considerably bulkier. It is lacking a good Ghost-STAB with Last Respects not being an option but, at least on rain, its only going to be clicking Wave Crash or Liquidation anyway. It is an upgrade to Flotazel for rain, and people did complain about Floatzel for a while, but I'm not sold on the fact that its a massive upgrade to the point where tiering action would be neccessary. We'll see though I could be wrong. To be honest, I'm more interested in adaptability sets then rain and Basculegion-F might be the play for Adaptability sets because Shadow Ball is way more spammable than Phantom Force, but Adapatability Never Ending Nightmare hits like a truck so who knows, im looking forward to messing around with both of them.


I'm not 100% sold that Lilligant will be good but physical QD has to have some potential. While it seems good I think it's going to need Hustle to hit hard enough, which means CC> Axe Kick and your already losing the defense boost from Victory Dance there. Could be a good sweeper, very one dimensional and at the mercy of Hustle. Could be useful on sun as it does have defog and isnt weak to rocks so could be something there. Swords Dance + Trailblaze could also be a play. I'm not so sure on this one but it definitely has potential.


Tera Steel Melm Reincarnated, expect to see more Trick Room than ever on the ladder. Slightly less bulky and doesnt remove the chance to kill it with Flinches though so it doesnt overcome the main weakness of Trick Room abusers (being able to be abused when TR is down) as hard as Melmetal did. While the calcs of Tera Normal Guts Facade or insane we'll have to see if it becomes too much of an issue to the point where it cant be dealt with even when TR goes down.


I think Specs is the play for Enamorus. Specs Moonblast/Springtide hits like a truck and even though it doesnt get Hurricane for some reason, it has a plethora of good coverage options like Earth Power, Mystical Fire, Focus Blast etc to fill up its slots and help it break through Fairy Resists. Superpower + Play Rough could be ok but it needs so much set-up time to get the Agility, enough Superpowers to do work with its lower Attack stat. Specs is way easier to get to do work and will probably be the better set. Not at all on my ban radar until the Fleur Cannon TM is released.


Setting spikes while also attacking is pretty nice, but its not like offense is struggling for Spikers at the minute. Garchomp, Ferrothorn, and even things like Diancie do the job just fine. Unfortunatley it doesnt really offer much outside of Ceaseless edge, its midling speed stops it from being a decent Swords Dance threat and Sucker Punch is not boosted by Sharpness. Not on the hype train for this one.

The rest of the additions I think will be whatever, mainly keeping an eye on Sneasler but would like to know what sets everyone is using and how theyre finding all of the above mentioned Pokemon as soon as the drop on sim.

 

[hidin]

Choice Band / HDB Sneasler + Hex Dragapult

Sneasler @ Choice Band / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Poison Touch
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Dire Claw
- U-turn
- Fire Punch

Dragapult @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Dragon Darts
- U-turn

Sneasler is a very potent pivot with Dire Claw being as RNG-busted as ever and spreading status quite easily, which then Dragapult can abuse with Hex. Sneasler can deal with Kingambit and Heatran for Dragapult, and Dragapult can cripple Pokemon like Landorus-T and Gliscor. Gholdengo can be annoying for this core, but a majority of teams have a Kingambit to deal with it anyways. Best spam Sneasler before it's gone!

 

[R8]

Choice Band Sneasler + Hex Dragapult

Sneasler @ Choice Band
Ability: Poison Touch
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Dire Claw
- U-turn
- Fire Punch

Dragapult @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Dragon Darts
- U-turn

Sneasler is a very potent pivot with Dire Claw being as RNG-busted as ever and spreading status quite easily, which then Dragapult can abuse with Hex. Sneasler can deal with Kingambit and Heatran for Dragapult, and Dragapult can cripple Pokemon like Landorus-T and Gliscor. Gholdengo can be annoying for this core, but a majority of teams have a Kingambit to deal with it anyways. Best spam Sneasler before it's gone!

What's funny is that I was about to post a team around this core in the bazaar thread great minds think alike?!? although I went protective pads instead of choice band
https://pokepast.es/d4a6178c2c2e6443


I think pads pivot Sneasler has merit, as you don't need choice band damage output to be annoying as fuck to switch into, so you can just click a stab into uturns with a 30% poison chance freely over the course of the game. Resisting rocks is also nice and make pads easier to justify over heavy duty boots imo. Generally I feel like this might be more reliable than choice band as sneasler STABs are not great to lock into, especially Dire Claw.

On a related note, I think covert cloak pex might be more relevant now that it can check Sneasler without randomly being forced to take a nap.

 

[Chilli Dewd]

Well folks, Chili Dewd, sun enthusiath here, and of course, being a sun lover myself i have to talk about the neweset edition to sun teams... non other that Hisui Lilligant...

This has a ton of potential imo, a physical Chlorophyll sweeper with perhaps one of the best boosting moves in the game, Victory Dance, which is basically the counterpart of Quiver Dance. And if you know Volcarona, this has the potential to be dangerous. With a base 105 atk and speed, Chlorophyll and Victory Dance, this has no issues in the speed department, reaching 618 speed under sun with just Adamant nature and not even counting for a +1 from Victory Dance. In fact, it's so stupidly fast, that you can even forgo this move, as crazy as it sounds, to go for a more instant attacking boost in Swords Dance as well. It does have some coverage issues however, it struggles to hit Gholdengo unless it pack Fire Tera Blast, which will fine in sun, it can be a pickle to have rely on H Lilligant to solely use Tera. It also has some competition with the Chlorophyll king , and even with to some degree. However, Tera Fire does come with the benefict of being immune to burns, on top of handling Gholdengo. Here are some calculations this thing can do:

252 Atk Expert Belt Tera Fire Lilligant-Hisui Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo in Sun: 425-499 (134.9 - 158.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Expert Belt Tera Fire Lilligant-Hisui Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Gholdengo: 442-521 (116.9 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Not even in sun)

252+ Atk Expert Belt Tera Fire Lilligant-Hisui Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Landorus-Therian: 331-394 (86.6 - 103.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lilligant-Hisui Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 200-238 (65.7 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lilligant-Hisui Solar Blade vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 278-329 (91.4 - 108.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

(In case it dares tera)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lilligant-Hisui Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Tera Dragon Toxapex: 266-316 (87.5 - 103.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lilligant-Hisui Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 274-324 (82 - 97%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

So yeah, is it perfect? No, not even close to the terror that Walking Wake brought, but it has a place in sun nonetheless.

And for my wooper ranks:
A solid 2 woopers... Hope you guys found this interesting.

 

[R8]

So I’m making this post to put the spotlight on an archetype that might be flying under the radar at the moment:

https://pokepast.es/72b68259cad129b5 (<- outdated version, see this post)

This is pretty much a much more aggressive take on the “thugnar”-like teams (This is thugnar: https://pokepast.es/0c1f55bfc323763a) we have been seeing for a bit: the idea behind this team is stacking very strong win conditions complemented by spikes. While the team might look not as defensively sound as your usual fat teams, it is offensively much more threatening: in my opinion, one of the things that made thugnar successful is how difficult it can be to consistently answer both Garganacl and MLop in the long run, while MLop is in general a great safety net against offense. Here, you not only got MLop and Garganacl, but also Cresselia and Gliscor, which are themselves terrifying win conditions. This team is not meant to be played passively: you have the tools to step on your opponent’s throat and eventually open the door for one of your win conditions to win or at least irremediably damage the opposing team. The team also is very resilient against spikes, which imo is a very very important asset for a bulky team like this one, on top of letting you keep the pressure ongoing without having to spend a turn on clearing hazards.


After some tests, this team felt way too consistent despite being haphazardly thrown together, and wonderfully takes advantage of broken Tera exacerbating the potency of the win condition of your choice. I want to make it clear that by making this post I don’t want to highlight the team, but the idea behind it (a.k.a. forgo your defensive sturdiness on fat to make room to stack broken win conditions/progress makers) as I believe it has a lot of potential and def deserves to be explored more. I think the 6 I posted works but sets probably can be tweaked. Variants with other progress makers/win conditions can be tried out (knock rocks clef, tera reuni, bu corv,… or whatever else you could think of.).

Tbh I didn’t watch the wcop games yet so I don’t know if pple already are running that kind of stuff lol, but still wanted to mention it in the thread as no one did yet.

Here is a replay (I should have saved more but I forgor, honestly just try the team lol):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1875892802

 

[KaiZ]

So I’m making this post to put the spotlight on an archetype that might be flying under the radar at the moment:

https://pokepast.es/72b68259cad129b5

This is pretty much a much more aggressive take on the “thugnar”-like teams (This is thugnar: https://pokepast.es/0c1f55bfc323763a) we have been seeing for a bit: the idea behind this team is stacking very strong win conditions complemented by spikes. While the team might look not as defensively sound as your usual fat teams, it is offensively much more threatening: in my opinion, one of the things that made thugnar successful is how difficult it can be to consistently answer both Garganacl and MLop in the long run, while MLop is in general a great safety net against offense. Here, you not only got MLop and Garganacl, but also Cresselia and Gliscor, which are themselves terrifying win conditions. This team is not meant to be played passively: you have the tools to step on your opponent’s throat and eventually open the door for one of your win conditions to win or at least irremediably damage the opposing team. The team also is very resilient against spikes, which imo is a very very important asset for a bulky team like this one, on top of letting you keep the pressure ongoing without having to spend a turn on clearing hazards.


After some tests, this team felt way too consistent despite being haphazardly thrown together, and wonderfully takes advantage of broken Tera exacerbating the potency of the win condition of your choice. I want to make it clear that by making this post I don’t want to highlight the team, but the idea behind it (a.k.a. forgo your defensive sturdiness on fat to make room to stack broken win conditions/progress makers) as I believe it has a lot of potential and def deserves to be explored more. I think the 6 I posted works but sets probably can be tweaked. Variants with other progress makers/win conditions can be tried out (knock rocks clef, tera reuni, bu corv,… or whatever else you could think of.).

Tbh I didn’t watch the wcop games yet so I don’t know if pple already are running that kind of stuff lol, but still wanted to mention it in the thread as no one did yet.

Here is a replay (I should have saved more but I forgor, honestly just try the team lol):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1875892802

Except for Garg and Lopunny this team could be crippled by M-sabeleye especially with cresselia since M-Sabe is immune to both of cress's attacking moves

 

[Nish the Great]

Except for Garg and Lopunny this team could be crippled by M-sabeleye especially with cresselia since M-Sabe is immune to both of cress's attacking moves

This really isn't a problem for this team because 1. Mega Sableye is kind of dead and B. Gliscor absolutely destroys mega sableye teams

 

[Chilli Dewd]

Okay folks, the time has finally fallen upon us, with new pokemon always come a new meta, and boy is there a plenty new amount of them...

So ill be ranking all of them briefly, there pros and cons, and some movesets for all of them... so lets get into it.

Also, my classic rank system:
=Niche
=Good
=Great
=Bad





Pros:
-Solid Offensive Typing
-Three amazing abilities in Intimidate, Flash Fire and Reckless.
-Solid Attack stat and respectable bulk.
-Excellent attacking moves for Reckless in Head Smash, Flare Blitz and Wild Charge.
Cons:
-Middling Speed for the Tier.
-Horrible Defensive Typing.
-Stealth Rock weak.

Wooper rank:



Pros:
-Insane Defense Stat.
-Decent moveset
-Design wise, it's top tier.
Cons:
-ABBYSMAL DEFENSIVE TYPING.
-Super Frail on the Special Side.
-Very Slow.
-Stealth Rock weak.

Wooper rank:


Pros:
-Solid Offensive type
-Strong Water STAB in Wave Crash
-Swift Swim and Adaptability are great
-Respectable Attack stat
-Solid Option on Rain Teams.
-Better design than its female counterpart.
Cons:
-Last Respects was banned(Thanks Arceus for that).
-Strong competition in Floatzel and Barraskewda as a Swift Swimmer.
-Lackluster bulk despite its High HP stat.
-Rather slow and somewhat useless outside of Rain.

Wooper rating:


Pros:
-Ok special attack
-Solid Stab Combination
-Good Stabs in Hydro Pump, Surf and Shadow Ball.
-Ice Beam always good on a Water type.
Cons:
-Similar issues as Basculegion M, rather useless outside of Rain teams.
-Strong competition with Kingdra as a Swift Swimmer.
-Worse coverage options tham Basculegion M.
-I prefer male's design more.

Wooper rank:



Pros:
-Great signature move.
-High HP and Special Attack
-Two great abilities in Sheer Force amd Tinted Lens.
-Decent coverage.
Cons:
-Low Defense stats and Speed.
-Awful Defensive typing.
-Stealth Rock weak.
-Sig move is blocked by Dark types.
-Sheer Force doesn't work with Sig.

Wooper ranks:



Pros
-Great Signature move.
-Solid Attack stat and respectable special bulk.
-Excellent movepool.
-Great Ability in Scrappy.
-Cool design.
Cons:
-Bad defensive typing.
-Not so good offensive combination.(Scrappy does make up for it a bit do).
-Slow and middling physical bulk.
-Strong Competition as a Scrappy user with Mega Lopunny.

Wooper ranks:



Pros:
-Fast as f*** boi...
-Decent abilities in Static, Aftermath and Bulletproof.
-Respectable utility movepool.
Cons:
-Frail as F***.... boi.
-Middling Special Attack, and awful Physical attack.
-A rather mediocre Signature move.
-Awful coverage.

Wooper ranks:



Pros:
-Contrary.
-Superpower... alongside Contrary.
-High Special atk.
-Solid Physical atk.
-Decent speed.
-Solid special attacking coverage.
-2 valuable immunities in Dragon and Ground(R.I.P Garchomp)
-Has solid resitances in Dark and Fighting, and also resist Grass and Bug.
Cons:
-Rather Frail.
-Stealth Rock weak.
-Lackluster Physical attacking cocerage.
-Superpower has low PP.
-Awful weaknesses to Electric, Ice, Rock, Steel and Poison.
-Not a fan of its design.

Wooper rank:



Pros:
-Solid bulk.
-High Special Attack.
-Decent Physical Attack.
-Typing has the same pros as regular Enamorus.
-Special attack coverage.
-Overcoat is a fine ability.
Cons:
-No Contrary.
-Very Slow.
-Typings has the cons as regular Enamorus.
-Lackluster Physical attacking coverage.
-No a fan of its design.

Wooper rank:



Pros:
-Amazing Defensive typing.
-Stealth Rock resistant.
-High Special Defense.
-Respectable physical defense and HP.
-Solid Special attack.
-Excellent attacking coverage.
-Ok abilities.
Cons:
-NO RECOVERY MOVE.(minus the universal and unreliable Rest).
-No Utility to speak of.
-Rather Slow.
-Hilariously mediocre Signature move.(Acid Armor does the same, but with more PP).

Wooper rank:



Pros:
-Amazing Signature move.
-Solid Utility movepool(Including a recovery move in Roost).
-Good ability in Sharpness.
-High Attack stat.
-Solid physical bulk.
-Cool looking design.
Cons:
-Mediocre defensive typing.
-Stealth Rock weak.
-Middling special bulk and speed.
-Sig has a chance to miss.

Wooper rank:



-Amazing Signature move.
-Respectable Attack and speed stats.
-Two excellent abilities in Chlorophyll and Hustle.
-Can Fit on Sun as well as in Hyper Offense.
-Adorable design.
Cons:
-Frail.
-Bad defensive typing.
-Mediocre Offensive typing.
-Lackluster coverage.(minus the universal Tera Blast)
-Some competition as a Chlorphyller with Venusaur and Scovillain.
-Hustle has its own flaws.

Wooper ranks:



Pros:
-Good Signature move.
-Good defensive typing.
-Respectable offensive typing.
-Solid attack stat.
-Swift Swim and Intimidate are great abilities.
-Has Spikes(as if the move Spikes, not the ones on itself).
Cons:
-Swift Swimmer without Water Stab.
-Signature move is blocked by Steel types.
-Lackluster coverage.
-No reliable Recovery.
-A ton of Competition for a Swift Swimmer.

Wooper ranks:



Pros:
-Amazing Signature move.
-Great Offensive typing.
-Solid Offensive movepool.
Cons:
-Mediocre bulk and speed.
-A ton of competition as both an offensive mon, and as a Spikes setter(yes, Ceasless Edge is technically Spikes on steroids).
-Its Sig has a chance to miss.

Wooper rank:



Pros:
-Broken Signature move.
-Great STAB combination.
-High Attack and Speed.
-Unburden.
-Great coverage options.
-Cool design.
Cons:
-Pretty frail.
-Unburden can only be triggered once per game.

Wooper ranks:



Pros:
-Great Signature move.
-Great Stab combination.
-Burn Up alongside Tera Fire is really good.
-Solid Special Attack.
Cons:
-Middling Speed stat.
-Middling Special bulk and mediocre physical bulk.
-Stealth Rock weak.
-Any chip damage nutters Eruption.
-Signature is blocked by Normal types.
-Depressive design.

Wooper ranks:



Pros:
-High Atk stat.
-High HP, good physical bulk.
-Guts prevents opposing status, plus gives it a Choice Band like boost.
-Solid coverage options.
Cons:
-Very Slow.
-Partial Normal typing isn't always great.
-Lack of reliable healing, outside of Drain Punch.(and Rest)
-Constantly getting chipped fron its own Flame Orb.

Wooper rank:


Pros:
-Intimidate is always a good ability to have.
-Solid HP and good Offensive stats.
-Decent Signature move.
-Respectable utility movepool.
-Partial Normal typing protects it from Ghost.
Cons:
-Mediocre defense stats.
-Bad defensive typing.
-Bad STAB Combination.
-Rather Slow.
-Signature is blocked by Dark types.

Wooper rank:

So there you have it...









And of course, before we seal the deal, here are some sets for every single one of them, thanks a lot to hidin for hanging them over.

https://pokepast.es/a3e04dacf63042db

Hope you all enjoy this one.

 

[JT’s Idol]

Okay folks, the time has finally fallen upon us, with new pokemon always come a new meta, and boy is there a plenty new amount of them...
View attachment 522237

So ill be ranking all of them briefly, there pros and cons, and some movesets for all of them... so lets get into it.

Also, my classic rank system:
=Niche
=Good
=Great
=Bad





Pros:
-Solid Offensive Typing
-Three amazing abilities in Intimidate, Flash Fire and Reckless.
-Solid Attack stat and respectable bulk.
-Excellent attacking moves for Reckless in Head Smash, Flare Blitz and Wild Charge.
Cons:
-Middling Speed for the Tier.
-Horrible Defensive Typing.
-Stealth Rock weak.

Wooper rank:



Pros:
-Insane Defense Stat.
-Decent moveset
-Design wise, it's top tier.
Cons:
-ABBYSMAL DEFENSIVE TYPING.
-Super Frail on the Special Side.
-Very Slow.
-Stealth Rock weak.

Wooper rank:


Pros:
-Solid Offensive type
-Strong Water STAB in Wave Crash
-Swift Swim and Adaptability are great
-Respectable Attack stat
-Solid Option on Rain Teams.
-Better design than its female counterpart.
Cons:
-Last Respects was banned(Thanks Arceus for that).
-Strong competition in Floatzel and Barraskewda as a Swift Swimmer.
-Lackluster bulk despite its High HP stat.
-Rather slow and somewhat useless outside of Rain.

Wooper rating:


Pros:
-Ok special attack
-Solid Stab Combination
-Good Stabs in Hydro Pump, Surf and Shadow Ball.
-Ice Beam always good on a Water type.
Cons:
-Similar issues as Basculegion M, rather useless outside of Rain teams.
-Strong competition with Kingdra as a Swift Swimmer.
-Worse coverage options tham Basculegion M.
-I prefer male's design more.

Wooper rank:



Pros:
-Great signature move.
-High HP and Special Attack
-Two great abilities in Sheer Force amd Tinted Lens.
-Decent coverage.
Cons:
-Low Defense stats and Speed.
-Awful Defensive typing.
-Stealth Rock weak.
-Sig move is blocked by Dark types.
-Sheer Force doesn't work with Sig.

Wooper ranks:



Pros
-Great Signature move.
-Solid Attack stat and respectable special bulk.
-Excellent movepool.
-Great Ability in Scrappy.
-Cool design.
Cons:
-Bad defensive typing.
-Not so good offensive combination.(Scrappy does make up for it a bit do).
-Slow and middling physical bulk.
-Strong Competition as a Scrappy user with Mega Lopunny.

Wooper ranks:



Pros:
-Fast as f*** boi...
-Decent abilities in Static, Aftermath and Bulletproof.
-Respectable utility movepool.
Cons:
-Frail as F***.... boi.
-Middling Special Attack, and awful Physical attack.
-A rather mediocre Signature move.
-Awful coverage.

Wooper ranks:



Pros:
-Contrary.
-Superpower... alongside Contrary.
-High Special atk.
-Solid Physical atk.
-Decent speed.
-Solid special attacking coverage.
-2 valuable immunities in Dragon and Ground(R.I.P Garchomp)
-Has solid resitances in Dark and Fighting, and also resist Grass and Bug.
Cons:
-Rather Frail.
-Stealth Rock weak.
-Lackluster Physical attacking cocerage.
-Superpower has low PP.
-Awful weaknesses to Electric, Ice, Rock, Steel and Poison.
-Not a fan of its design.

Wooper rank:



Pros:
-Solid bulk.
-High Special Attack.
-Decent Physical Attack.
-Typing has the same pros as regular Enamorus.
-Special attack coverage.
-Overcoat is a fine ability.
Cons:
-No Contrary.
-Very Slow.
-Typings has the cons as regular Enamorus.
-Lackluster Physical attacking coverage.
-No a fan of its design.

Wooper rank:



Pros:
-Amazing Defensive typing.
-Stealth Rock resistant.
-High Special Defense.
-Respectable physical defense and HP.
-Solid Special attack.
-Excellent attacking coverage.
-Ok abilities.
Cons:
-NO RECOVERY MOVE.(minus the universal and unreliable Rest).
-No Utility to speak of.
-Rather Slow.
-Hilariously mediocre Signature move.(Acid Armor does the same, but with more PP).

Wooper rank:



Pros:
-Amazing Signature move.
-Solid Utility movepool(Including a recovery move in Roost).
-Good ability in Sharpness.
-High Attack stat.
-Solid physical bulk.
-Cool looking design.
Cons:
-Mediocre defensive typing.
-Stealth Rock weak.
-Middling special bulk and speed.
-Sig has a chance to miss.

Wooper rank:



-Amazing Signature move.
-Respectable Attack and speed stats.
-Two excellent abilities in Chlorophyll and Hustle.
-Can Fit on Sun as well as in Hyper Offense.
-Adorable design.
Cons:
-Frail.
-Bad defensive typing.
-Mediocre Offensive typing.
-Lackluster coverage.(minus the universal Tera Blast)
-Some competition as a Chlorphyller with Venusaur and Scovillain.
-Hustle has its own flaws.

Wooper ranks:



Pros:
-Good Signature move.
-Good defensive typing.
-Respectable offensive typing.
-Solid attack stat.
-Swift Swim and Intimidate are great abilities.
-Has Spikes(as if the move Spikes, not the ones on itself).
Cons:
-Swift Swimmer without Water Stab.
-Signature move is blocked by Steel types.
-Lackluster coverage.
-No reliable Recovery.
-A ton of Competition for a Swift Swimmer.

Wooper ranks:



Pros:
-Amazing Signature move.
-Great Offensive typing.
-Solid Offensive movepool.
Cons:
-Mediocre bulk and speed.
-A ton of competition as both an offensive mon, and as a Spikes setter(yes, Ceasless Edge is technically Spikes on steroids).
-Its Sig has a chance to miss.

Wooper rank:



Pros:
-Broken Signature move.
-Great STAB combination.
-High Attack and Speed.
-Unburden.
-Great coverage options.
-Cool design.
Cons:
-Pretty frail.
-Unburden can only be triggered once per game.

Wooper ranks:



Pros:
-Great Signature move.
-Great Stab combination.
-Burn Up alongside Tera Fire is really good.
-Solid Special Attack.
Cons:
-Middling Speed stat.
-Middling Special bulk and mediocre physical bulk.
-Stealth Rock weak.
-Any chip damage nutters Eruption.
-Signature is blocked by Normal types.
-Depressive design.

Wooper ranks:



Pros:
-High Atk stat.
-High HP, good physical bulk.
-Guts prevents opposing status, plus gives it a Choice Band like boost.
-Solid coverage options.
Cons:
-Very Slow.
-Partial Normal typing isn't always great.
-Lack of reliable healing, outside of Drain Punch.(and Rest)
-Constantly getting chipped fron its own Flame Orb.

Wooper rank:


Pros:
-Intimidate is always a good ability to have.
-Solid HP and good Offensive stats.
-Decent Signature move.
-Respectable utility movepool.
-Partial Normal typing protects it from Ghost.
Cons:
-Mediocre defense stats.
-Bad defensive typing.
-Bad STAB Combination.
-Rather Slow.
-Signature is blocked by Dark types.

Wooper rank:

So there you have it...









And of course, before we seal the deal, here are some sets for every single one of them, thanks a lot to hidin for hanging them over.

https://pokepast.es/a3e04dacf63042db

Hope you all enjoy this one.

I agree with most of this, but Ursaluna has gotta be top tier. That not “always great” Normal typing gives it an annoying Fighting weakness, but it gets STAB Guts-boosted Facades, and it can be an absolute nuke. It has all the coverage it wants in Headlong Rush, Crunch, Fire Punch, Play Rough, etc, and it can become an even more horrifying wallbreaker (and one immune to burns!) with Swords Dance. Not to mention, the bear is very hard to one-shot in return despite its low speed, and the only things that can even dream of switching into it are immune. When Ursaluna is on the field, something is guaranteed to faint. The only arguable flaw is that it needs a lot of team support to function, such as Trick Room, but this mon is like Melmetal in that its power is so substantial the support is worth it.

 

[`ShadowTwo]

Is there a possibility to retest Regieleki, with the discovery of the nerf of Transistor?

 

[KaiZ]

Is there a possibility to retest Regieleki, with the discovery of the nerf of Transistor?

Even with the nerf it is still too powerful for the tier to handle with tera around

 

[adem]

Is there a possibility to retest Regieleki, with the discovery of the nerf of Transistor?

the very very tiny damage dropoff does not change the fact that it still has no real consistent defensive checks and can volt freely on everything.

also, to not make this so much of a one liner, i want to talk about one of the new hisui mons and some sets which i have cooked w them.



hot take: i think normal tr guts stuff is super Okay and not as special as people make it out to be. with the fact it requires tr to actially get going, needs to come in safe, has to spend a turn proccing flame orb (and another if it gets hwished/ldanced lol), the constant chip it takes throughout the match from orb, as well as the fact that both of its stabs have very common immunities, with ground immunes pretty much ever present on all viable teams, and ghosts are super common in the meta as well with pult ghold as the main ones and dirge hizoro the bascus msab and polt as more nicher ones. dont get me wrong, this set is good and fine and dandy, just dont think that its even close to what it was hyped up to be or even the best set, and really just Another TR Breaker in my eyes, nothing really special brought down by the playstyle.

COCAINE BEAR (Ursaluna) @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
Happiness: 0
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 172 SpD / 84 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Frustration
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

This is my masterpiece of set i cooked which imo is the best ursaluna set by a good margin. this set takes advantage of ursaluna’s frankly insane bulk for a offensive pokemon coupled with its really high attack (even uninvested), to function as an insane trade machine. slower breakers like this are usually ruined by status or by revenge killing it, but luna’s guts + tera + insane bulk that gets boosted allows it to take advantage of this and infact setup infront of pokemon which could force it out. [(e: this shit beats skarm too assuming no crits or freezes on either side, u pp stall it: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1877590232) ignore i got crit lol, but math wise u win the interaction, and with the chance to freeze + ur crit being more impactful overall, and u doing more net damage after a few turns forcing it to waste roosts n stuff]. this set is an amaglamation of gliscor + reuniclus + melmetal, and really consistently forces trades, even if you dont burn tera i dont doubt you can claim at least one kill. its one annoying flaw is that ur spd is melmetal like, aka strong special moves chunk u, and u can get chipped into range of stuff like pult draco or specs lele psychic or yard fire blast/flame, but u avoid the ko from all of this easily from full. this set does best into bos / balances stuff from my experience because unless they have a super strong neutral breaker like yard or specs lele it is really hard to break the mon, especially if it isnt heavily chipped prior and they get the tera wrong. otherwise, u can safely tera it and expect 2-3+ kills very easily.

some replays i got showing this, i will try to get more i promise (and more from different people with different playstyles lol) but for now this is all u get.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1874888404
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1875395824-ppji42xr33ocp4v5vveinushh3idixdpw

ill get more replays for stall and ho and rain later, but hopefully these show how the set works and how efficient it is^^

Ursaluna @ Assault Vest
Ability: Bulletproof
Happiness: 0
Tera Type: Fairy / Steel / Poison
EVs: 72 HP / 100 Atk / 252 SpD / 84 Spe
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch

av is another set i think has potential in the tier, but i need to build with it more and test with it more to see how well it does in paper, but from my limited play with it i think it does have great potential, functioning similiar to av melm of last gen v some differences in matchups. with bulletproof u hard wall specs pult post tera completely, u deal with lele and val really well. some calcs to show its potential:
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 72 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Ursaluna in Psychic Terrain: 160-189 (38.1 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 72 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Ursaluna: 123-145 (29.3 - 34.6%) -- 8.9% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Diancie-Mega Moonblast vs. 72 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Ursaluna: 102-120 (24.3 - 28.6%) -- 98% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 72 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Ursaluna: 147-174 (35 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Tornadus-Therian Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 72 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Ursaluna: 297-351 (70.8 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

feel like this set functions as a trade machine as well. and u take advantage of tera well so u can function as a psuedo check to stuff post tera, fairy is just solid defensive type + fight resist, steel means u pretty much hard wall lele completely, poison lets u absorb tspikes, fight resist while resisting fairy, decent defensive type overall. this set needs more testing and i implore u all to try it out. the spread lets u 2hko ferro with fpunch and outspeed clef and cress, but u can go a bit less for just clef if u want, and dump in spd bulk to take hits better.


in conclusion, while i think sneas is def the most broken mon out of the bunch, luna is definitely the “best“ for me in my book currently, so much good set variety, and performs a lot of roles well, and is melmetal lite lol for everyone who misses him (me). do try out these sets (especially bu) u will not regret it.

here are some teams i made with both sets:

(ill edit in links later pokepaste is down sob, dm me on ps or discord if u want them now lol im happy to share!)

much love from me, and happy pride!

 

[G-Luke]

Is there a possibility to retest Regieleki, with the discovery of the nerf of Transistor?

What's the nerf?

 

[Blitz]

1.5x to 1.3x

 

[Chilli Dewd]

I agree with most of this, but Ursaluna has gotta be top tier. That not “always great” Normal typing gives it an annoying Fighting weakness, but it gets STAB Guts-boosted Facades, and it can be an absolute nuke. It has all the coverage it wants in Headlong Rush, Crunch, Fire Punch, Play Rough, etc, and it can become an even more horrifying wallbreaker (and one immune to burns!) with Swords Dance. Not to mention, the bear is very hard to one-shot in return despite its low speed, and the only things that can even dream of switching into it are immune. When Ursaluna is on the field, something is guaranteed to faint. The only arguable flaw is that it needs a lot of team support to function, such as Trick Room, but this mon is like Melmetal in that its power is so substantial the support is worth it.

I agree with most of this, but Ursaluna has gotta be top tier. That not “always great” Normal typing gives it an annoying Fighting weakness, but it gets STAB Guts-boosted Facades, and it can be an absolute nuke. It has all the coverage it wants in Headlong Rush, Crunch, Fire Punch, Play Rough, etc, and it can become an even more horrifying wallbreaker (and one immune to burns!) with Swords Dance. Not to mention, the bear is very hard to one-shot in return despite its low speed, and the only things that can even dream of switching into it are immune. When Ursaluna is on the field, something is guaranteed to faint. The only arguable flaw is that it needs a lot of team support to function, such as Trick Room, but this mon is like Melmetal in that its power is so substantial the support is worth it.

U could say that the "normal isnt always great"could be corrected, but everything else in the cons section is true, very slow, has no reliable recover move minus drain punch, which isnt always slotted, and flame orb constantly chipping it all are true and are flaws to take into account. Now should it deserve to be instead of ? Maybe, it is a Wallbreaker and a half, and depsite the lack of healing and constant chip, it can still take some decent hits to good effect to then simply bash threw the opponent's team. In fact I am willing to say this mon single handendly carries the viability of Trick Room teams on its shoulders. So yeah, I may have not overthinked that one, but it is still pretty early in my defense, anyway thanks sharing your toughts.

 

[LBN]

Alright... considering the absolute uproar the ban of Ursaluna caused in both the discord and less so the showdown room, i think we need to talk about this ban and how this Pokémon is actually ok.

For starters, yes yes it's a nuke. But here's the thing, both it's stabs have immunities respectively on the Pokémon who takes damage by existing, making it easier than most Pokémon to pivot around. For starters, there are Pokémon who can switch into or pivot into specific Ursaluna clicks and force it out, let me name a couple:

This isn't the full list, excluding Pokémon like Flyinium Zapdos and the Mega Lati twins, but this is a sizeable amount of common, popular Pokémon who can at the minimum, pivot into Ursaluna. Of course, most of these guess wrong and they die. However, Ursaluna is a Pokémon who lives and dies by prediction, while somewhat lacking in ways to effectively come into the game and actual force the kills it's known for. Additionally, even tiny attacks like Torn-T U-turn aren't things it wants to/can afford to take multiple times, lest it be even more prone to being worn down by hazards and it's self inflicted status. Suffice to say, this Pokémon lacks longevity and can be abused very easily.

Now, I'd like to ask a question. Who does Ursaluna switch into? Pokémon it safely comes in on and can force a kill more than once, the list will be shown here:


..A blank slate? What gives, surely there's Pokémon it- no. There isn't any. Most Pokémon in this tier have a way to either smack it hard enough for a Pokémon that temporary, pivot out like U-turn Koko, or just are slower end mons like Garganacl and Toxapex who can smack it with super effective moves for 20-45% range, which is bad news for a Pokémon like this. The only main standout is maybe Clefable, but honestly if I want to abuse Clef there are plenty of Pokémon who can also do that, it's not special. Moonblast also does 30% minimum to uninvested Ursaluna, which you have to be unless you want to be outrun by crucial Pokémon like Mega Scizor, Kingambit, Skeledirge, Heatran and more. Generally, Ursaluna struggles to get in, and sucks vs offense. "Oh but he can tera and gotcha a Pokémon out of the game" LITERALLY every bloody Pokémon can with the balanced type change mechanic, this thing isn't special for that. "Oh but he can face tank a lot of neutral clicks like Lele psychic" again, ok you take 90? Have fun going 1 for 1 at best with the Pokémon that just got quickbanned.

Another point I need to mention is what was written in the ban post itself. Apologies if this comes off as rude but, what the hell are you guys talking about? Trick room? Melmetal 2.0? You can not be fr. Melmetal was doing 50% to my max max rotom washes with Double Bash, and flinching it right after. While having a superior defensive profile, and clicks that don't have Immunities to blank it with, and doesn't have the same longevity issues. Second off, it didn't have the luxury of having a contact blocking w punching gloves.

And most importantly... TRICK ROOM SUCKSSSS. It is terrible, garbage, trash, dogshit. It gets obliterated by the literal top 1 mon in the tier, hatterene is 1 flinch on lead away from losing, it's just a bad fish in a tier where we have significantly better fishes, so i have no clue why you guys lauded Trick room as a primary reason it got banned in the banpost. Overall, this is a good mon on a bad style and an ok mon on a good style at best.

And that's where my main reason for making this post is.. Why did this even happen? I genuinely did not see a single QB or even suspect mention for this Pokémon, meanwhile Sneasler got a ton of bitching and Dire Claw is one of the dumbest things Game Freak has put into the world. And Sneasler got 1 ban vote... which what? How. This isn't a post about sneasler since frankly I could care less I'll get run Lum berry skeledirge. What I have an issue with is the complete lack of any sort of both communication and understanding this decision and frankly a lot of this gen's handling has been this whole time. The rushing of bans across the board has been frankly poor and while I partially sympathize with the work it takes to get things right, getting things this wrong multiple times just isn't acceptable. No survey, no community discussion whatsoever, nobody supported this in the discord outside of council literally nobody.

Here's my suggestion, Suspect Ursaluna back down within the next week. Ubers is doing a similar thing with Calyrex-Shadow, and doing it like this would help rectify with, and pardon my bluntness, absolute dogshit decision in every corner. Another thing that would help to rectify it is too not be so caught up with time management that you rush decisions like this. NDPL is not going on, and it's not like Ursaluna trick room is gonna take over NDLT. You know who will though? Sneasler. That aside, stop being so trigger happy and try putting out more surveys for this type of stuff before taking action like this, and the headache of nearly an hour of "what the fucks" from every person in the discord server won't likely happen again. Apologies if this comes off as headstrong/overly aggressive but I'm not the only person who thought this, and it's 1am so I want to go to bed