Xerneas

[Vryheid]

The question here is: is it acceptable to being forced to run specific counters to deal with just one set from one pokemon? Not even Kyogre and Extremekiller Arceus were so centralizing.

Yes, in my opinion it is, because part of what I enjoy about ubers is that it's a metagame that tolerates and embraces extremes. Not stupid, randomized centralization like Moody in Gen 5, but overwhelmingly powerful Pokemon with clear cut counters and responses. If this means that every team has to run a Geomancy counter then there's nothing inherently wrong with accepting that as part of the metagame Gamefreak intended. We have already shown that there are a number of Pokemon that can take any hit from Xerneas at +2 and can cripple or outright destroy it in one move, and anything with an attacking move can cripple it during the turn of Geomancy so that any other Pokemon can finish it off in a single priority hit. A weakness to Bullet Punch is another huge strike against it. While it's certainly extremely dangerous it's entirely manageable and cannot sweep teams singlehandedly.

 

[Alonsoforever]

Knocking off the Power Herb (Deoxys?) is a possible strategy too.
Embargo will also prevent it from using the Power Herb for 5 turns and you don't have to hit Xerneas.
Of course, some will balk at running these moves and would rather ban from the ban list.
But this is the entire point of Ubers. Testing your mettle against broken mons.

As you Knock Off, it uses Geomancy, in the next turn its stats are raised. It's the same to Knock Off and then attack than to attack directly.

 

[deluge]

As you Knock Off, it uses Geomancy, in the next turn its stats are raised. It's the same to Knock Off and then attack than to attack directly.

Knock off could also catch it on the switch.
But in a hypothetical Deoxys/Xerneas opening faceoff if you Knock-off the Power Herb on the turn it uses Geomancy then Taunt on the following turn, Geomancy will fail.
So against Deoxys with Knock Off and Taunt, it can't set up and if it stays in at all it will lose Power Herb ending the threat of a vicious on-turn setup.
(That is if Bulbapedia is correct that Geomancy fails if Taunted while charging.)

EDIT: I made a mistake with Embargo before. Magic Room is the move that behaves like a field effect and disables items on both sides.
Threatening Xerneas with item loss seems like a more useful approach in addition to having a mon that can take it out.

 

[superstar]

Jesus Christ stop talking about banning Xerneas from Ubers I dont want to get my thread locked. There are many checks to the Power Herb set including a counter in Aeglislash. Unless they use HP Fire in which case they will be walled by something else. Lugia is a good counter if they run Psyshock, Poison-Arceus if they run Thunderbolt.. Mega Scizor and Lucario are good checks if you aren't retarded and let it set up easily. Chansey is also a good check. The problemm with Xerneas is that if something takes a hit and Phazes it can no longer sweep. Its still a great sweeper, but dont act like it is totally uncounterable or unbeatable or whatever. Destiny bond Mega-Banette can take it out too

 

[Jibaku]

I REPEAT: WE WILL NOT BE BANNING XERNEAS FROM UBERS

 

[SomeoneStoleTheNameIWant]

Whether it be because of forum rules or just because it's a fruitless topic, can we stop discussing/attempting to facilitate a discussion about the banning of Xerneas ? This thread is about Xerneas sets, his assets, his drawbacks, any interesting combos, cores he helps to form, etc. We don't know how the metagame's going to work out and, as Jibaku boldly (pun intended) stated, Xerneas will not be banned from Ubers. Give that a rest, and just go back to discussing the beautiful rainbow reindeer Game Freak has presented us.

 

[RotomPoison]

Can we stop discussing/attempting to facilitate a discussion about the banning of Xerneas ?

Geomancy Xerneas will run Modest of course, the only question is what would be the best amount of Speed EVs.

To those who say to run Timid all you miss is Jolly Excadrill in Sand (lol), +2 base 90s with a +Speed nature (again lol) and +3 Blaziken, which is no problem for it, as if Blaziken would get to +3 or stay in.

Modest Xerneas outspeeds the following (important) Pokemon with the following EVs at +2:

248, Scarf Timid Mewtwo
232, Scarf Timid Shaymin-S
104, Scarf Terrakion, +2 Adamant Kabutops and Blaziken
76, Deoxys-S (meaning outspeeds every unboosted Pokemon)

 

[Vryheid]

If you go the 104 speed route you can put the rest in defense and it will be just barely enough (by literally 1 HP point) to guarantee surviving a Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch after Stealth Rocks. Just something to think about.

At those Defensive EVs, Timid Scarf Mewtwo does a maximum of 49.89% damage to Xerneas with Psystrike. Again, just barely avoiding the KO if it sets up.

I'm really liking those numbers. If I ever get another Xerneas I'm tempted to to run those defensive EVs.

 

[SomeoneStoleTheNameIWant]

If you go the 104 speed route you can put the rest in defense and it will be just barely enough (by literally 1 HP point) to guarantee surviving a Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch after Stealth Rocks. Just something to think about.

...and then the opponent crits XD

All jokes aside, that does look like a pretty nice spread. Problem is, if you're surviving with 1HP, revenge killing's going to ruin your day.

 

[Breadroster]

If you go the 104 speed route you can put the rest in defense and it will be just barely enough (by literally 1 HP point) to guarantee surviving a Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch after Stealth Rocks. Just something to think about.

At those Defensive EVs, Timid Scarf Mewtwo does a maximum of 49.89% damage to Xerneas with Psystrike. Again, just barely avoiding the KO if it sets up.

I'm really liking those numbers. If I ever get another Xerneas I'm tempted to to run those defensive EVs.

I'm new to this kind of stuff, but are all calculations like this one based on 31 IVs in all stats? Will my Xerneas with 27 HP IV survive CB Scizor aswell with those EVs?

 

[Kayden]

I'm new to this kind of stuff, but are all calculations like this one based on 31 IVs in all stats? Will my Xerneas with 27 HP IV survive CB Scizor aswell with those EVs?

It will survive 100% of the time if Stealth Rock isn't up, it has a small chance to be beaten if Stealth Rock is on the field.

 

[Breadroster]

It will survive 100% of the time if Stealth Rock isn't up, it has a small chance to be beaten if Stealth Rock is on the field.

Ok, thank you :)

 

[Aoda]

I've been wondering if a mixed set would be better in dealing with possible checks. I'm new to pokemon's competitive scene, but I was really wondering why a set consisting of HP earth/Moonblast/Close Combat/Outrage hasn't been mentioned. Would a set like that be too predictable?

 

[SomeoneStoleTheNameIWant]

I've been wondering if a mixed set would be better in dealing with possible checks. I'm new to pokemon's competitive scene, but I was really wondering why a set consisting of HP earth/Moonblast/Close Combat/Outrage hasn't been mentioned. Would a set like that be too predictable?

It's not necessarily a matter of predictability so much as viability. HP Earth got nerfed this Gen, and whether it's worth running over another coverage move is debatable and case-specific, not to mention that the main reason for running Xerneas would be to use Geomancy.

 

[Haruno]

I've been wondering if a mixed set would be better in dealing with possible checks. I'm new to pokemon's competitive scene, but I was really wondering why a set consisting of HP earth/Moonblast/Close Combat/Outrage hasn't been mentioned. Would a set like that be too predictable?

Xerneas no longer becomes a major threat if it lacks it's geomancy. A neutral moonblast hits harder than SE moves under 110 bp. Focus blast at 252+ +2 SpA hits harder than an uninvested close combat on the blobs. Even with just moonblast and either focus miss or thunder, is all it really needs to dominate. That's why it's so important to have a hard stop to xerneas.

 

[superstar]

I'm really like a 76 Speed Modest set at the moment for the Power Herb set and I feel that those are the best EVs for it. You don't fear Scarf Darkrai at all once sleep clause has been activated, and Scarf Shaymin needs to get realllly lucky to flinch you to death considering you are invested in bulk and are at +2. Losing so much bulk to go up to beat the shitty Scarf Mewtwo set isn't worth the trade off at all. Trying to beat Scarf Terrakion is okay I guess, but you resist CC anyway and being able to survive Mega Lucario's Bullet Punch after SR and Spikes is awesome.

The only downside to running such low speed is that you are then vulnerable to Sticky Web as you only have 380 speed after the boost and thus are outsped by a lot of stuff like Timid Darkrai, Shaymin, and Mewtwo as well as base 90+ Scarfers. You'll still lose to Timid base 90 Scarfers, Deoxys-S, and Genesect no matter how much speed you run, and you can only get up to tying Genesect even if you run Timid so the trade isn't worth it imo. Plus Sticky Web means that the opponent has to run Smeargle or the even more shitty Galvantula so it should be rare.

I've tried a using a bulky RestTalk set, running

Xerneas@leftovers
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Spd
Bold
-Moonblast
-Calm Mind
-Sleep Talk
-Rest

and it has worked pretty well so far, with that investment you can avoid the 2HKO from Genesect's Iron Head (no attack boost) and 2HKO back so long as you have 1 or more boost(s). I haven't tested it since the ladders fairly new, but I feel like its possible to make a good set that not bulky out of Xerneas. Though, even with maximum investment, CB bullet punch is still going to have a chance to 2HKO.

(calculations for reference)
252 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 186-218 (39.91 - 46.78%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 240-284 (51.5 - 60.94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Huh, I like that set a lot actually. My only issue is that it doesn't have much over the Geomancy set since you still lose to your counters, even with all the bulk. It also seems somewhat outclassed by Arceus-Fairy, who can run more bulk and Recover/Refresh instead. Still Fairy Aura is a nice plus, and it does let you use another Arceus forme.

 

[Haruno]

I'm really like a 76 Speed Modest set at the moment for the Power Herb set and I feel that those are the best EVs for it. You don't fear Scarf Darkrai at all once sleep clause has been activated, and Scarf Shaymin needs to get realllly lucky to flinch you to death considering you are invested in bulk and are at +2. Losing so much bulk to go up to beat the shitty Scarf Mewtwo set isn't worth the trade off at all. Trying to beat Scarf Terrakion is okay I guess, but you resist CC anyway and being able to survive Mega Lucario's Bullet Punch after SR and Spikes is awesome.

The only downside to running such low speed is that you are then vulnerable to Sticky Web as you only have 380 speed after the boost and thus are outsped by a lot of stuff like Timid Darkrai, Shaymin, and Mewtwo as well as base 90+ Scarfers. You'll still lose to Timid base 90 Scarfers, Deoxys-S, and Genesect no matter how much speed you run, and you can only get up to tying Genesect even if you run Timid so the trade isn't worth it imo. Plus Sticky Web means that the opponent has to run Smeargle or the even more shitty Galvantula so it should be rare.

Errr we run the 104~116 speed spread specifically to avoid the scarfer problem .-. Without the speed scarfers can be a major threat to it

Edit: realized you were talking about after sticky web. Whoops. Sticky web should be a non factor since a team should be running defog anyhow and outspeeding scarf terra is important since otherwise it'll dent xerneas with SE and leave it vulnerable to priority. The slight extra bulk isn't worth that trade off

 

[ImJacky]

What EVs and nature for this set?
Geomancy:
Xerneas @ Power Herb
-Geomancy
-Moonblast
-Focus Blast
-Thunderbolt / Psyshock

 

[Jimmyftw]

What EVs and nature for this set?
Geomancy:
Xerneas @ Power Herb
-Geomancy
-Moonblast
-Focus Blast
-Thunderbolt / Psyshock

I would say 140 HP / 252 SAtk / 116 Spd with a Modest nature. Thunderbolt should always be picked over Psyshock for Ho-oh and Lugia.

 

[ImJacky]

But is Xerneas uber or it can be used in Wi-Fi battles without problems?

 

[superstar]

But is Xerneas uber or it can be used in Wi-Fi battles without problems?

On Showdown, at least, it is Uber. I'm assuming it is Uber in Wifi as well unless that people that make those tiers are a) Crazy or b) waiting for proof it is broken before banning

 

[ImJacky]

Ok, thanks for answering (:

 

[Manaphy]

I would say 140 HP / 252 SAtk / 116 Spd with a Modest nature. Thunderbolt should always be picked over Psyshock for Ho-oh and Lugia.

Psyshock is better in general though, Thunderbolt only lets you hit Lugia harder while Psyshock hits everything else TBolt does and more.

 

[xenofiftyfour]

How about Prankster Encore?

 

[Banryu]

How about Prankster Encore?

What does this have to do with Xerneas?