The Top 10 Titans of the 5th Gen OU Metagame [VOTING OVER]

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
If I might argue against Latios, I'd like to say why I don't think it should be in the top 10. Latios is extremely powerful and fast, and can be terrifying with Specs Draco Meteors and Psyshocks to get past Blissey and company. However, I do not consider it one of the best Dragons in OU (that's Garchomp and Banded Dragonite, easily. Even Latias is better than Latios, imo). There has never been a time when Latios was king. He has always played second fiddle to other OU Pokémon, never breaking past the point of "really good" and becoming "metagame defining." I think Latios has two great faults that keep it from being top 10 material: its main STAB forces it to switch out (or at least cripples it), and it is easily Pursuit trapped.

On the first fault, Draco Meteor is, as I said before, absurdly strong coming off 130 Special Attack, but unlike Kyurem-B, Garchomp, or Dragonite, using its STAB move means that it is officially crippled, ESPECIALLY if it is Choice-locked. I honestly don't think Latios is that good of a Scarf Pokémon in part because of this. Obviously it has it's niche as the fastest Scarfer in the tier (which, of course, shouldn't be taken lightly considering the popularity of Scarf Keldeo), but it also can't clean up like a Scarf Pokémon should be able to. Late-game, you can send in your Keldeo and spam Hydro Pump or Surf and win the game with it. Rarely will Latios spam Psyshock or Surf to win, and it can never "spam" Draco Meteor to clean up, because it simply becomes too weak after a single use.

As for the second fault, it sort of ties in with the first one: every time I see Tyranitar or Scizor on my opponent's team and I'm using Latios, I basically say to myself: "Well, shit. Looks like I'm not going to be able to use Latios until that thing is dead." Tyranitar and Scizor absolutely cockblock Latios in every match without very good prediction, the right coverage move, and LO or Specs. And even IF Latios has Specs Surf, it most likely won't matter whether you use it or not. The opponent can simply find out what Latios is locked into my sacking the current Pokémon on the field, or a weakened one, and immediately send in Tyranitar to Pursuit. On top of that, this is only assuming BAND Tyranitar. Scarf doesn't care whether you have Specs Surf or not because it's going to KO you regardless. So the top two play styles (rain and sand) both have strong answers to Latios without even trying. I just don't think that is something that screams "top 10."

Furthermore, I think a major reason why Latios just isn't what I would pick for this slot has to do with the fact that Latios just hasn't affected the metagame outside of making Jirachi a bit more popular (though I assure you, it would still be very good even without Latios). Please—and this is not meant to be sarcastic or digging to anyone who believes Latios deserves this spot; I'm genuinely curious to find out—how has Latios influenced the metagame in a way that Latias hasn't? Latias is the best tank in the tier. I use Latias on teams because it checks sun and rain while hitting close enough to a hard as Latios that I don't really miss the extra power. There are so few times when I use Latios where I couldn't be using Latias in the same spot more efficiently. The only time I can think of when Latios is better is when using it as an offensive wallbreaker with the Specs set. Latias simply cannot match that power. Outside of that, though, I think Latias has much more utility.

Finally, I want to make sure everyone knows that I don't think Latios is bad by any means. I just think it is too easily stopped and not nearly as influential to BW OU as some of these other Pokémon are/were.
 

PDC

street spirit fade out
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Four-Time Past WCoP Champion
Latias.

Latias has been very consistent throughout the entire Generation, more consistent than Latios has ever been. Not only is she one of the most useful Pokemon to put on your team as she covers just such a huge amount of threats, but she also is incredibly versatile. Latias covers almost all of the top threats in the metagame, utilizing it's very solid speed tier to basically check and counter the majority of threats in the metagame. It checks Keldeo, Rotom-W, Garchomp, checked Landorus-I, checks multiple of the powerful fighting types, and a huge amount of sun and Rain threats. You could say Pokemon like Latios had more of a presence usage wise, but that doesn't really mean too much. Honestly I feel Latias excels in everything Latios does outside of a Scarf set, which Latios should almost always be used over. Latias personally is one of the best Pokemon of this Generation, and without her I believe our metagame, especially in the tournament scene, would look a lot different. I nominated Latias first for a reason, and that was because of how it was such an amazing Pokemon consistently, and how it checked so many things as the metagame went on.
 

SJCrew

Believer, going on a journey...
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
LATIOS

Latias is a joke compared to this guy. Sorry, fanboys. :V
 
Last edited:
How the hell is Scizor not getting a single vote it was number 1 for 3 years and you're going to tell me it's not in the top 10. Dragonite is also > Latios, in my opinion

Latios is good, but it is rather one diminsional, with basically only two sets (LO and Choice) and those are basically clones of each other. It was easily countered, although I suppose you could argue that it was massively influencial by forcing a Jirachi, Scizor, Ferro, or TTar on like every team.

Dragonite has a immense variety of sets, from Rain Agility, Rain Mixed, Offensive Dragon Dance, Defensive Dragon Dance, Specially Defensive, and Sub + DD. It is the #1 reason that SR is mandatory on any team.

I guess I'm going to do my best to stop the Latios train, and vote with others for Dragonite
 
Last edited:
Dragonite.

Maybe I'm a little biased, as it is my favourite Pokemon, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was statistically the Pokemon that pulled off the most sweeps this generation.
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Although I think Deoxys-S should be #10, at this point it looks like it has no chance at winning, so I'm going to vote for the next best thing:

Dragonite

Halcyon is right, Latios is not metagame defining, nor did it cause as big of an impact on the tier as Dragonite did. Dragonite was not only suspected, but at one point in BW1 it was deemed unbeatable because of Multiscale giving it so many opportunities to just come in and wreck havoc. It forces every team to run Stealth Rock, a check to it, and possibly something that can switch into a Banded Outrage as well. Dragonite, like many other Pokemon on this list, has retained its status in OU throughout this entire generation as being one of the best Dragon-types in OU, even with the introduction of Garchomp and Kyurem-B. Dragonite may not be as fast as Latios, but Dragonite is by far one of the most versatile Pokemon in the tier that has been extremely consistent throughout this generation, more than Latios has in my opinion. Remember guys, Pokemon don't automatically deserve a spot on this list just because they're powerful, they deserve a spot on this list if they caused a significant impact on the tier and they are extremely consistent all together, and Dragonite is a perfect example of that. Has Latios been consistent this generation? For the most part. But do I think it deserves a spot over Dragonite because it's fast and powerful? No of course not. Choice Specs Draco Meteor doesn't warrant it a spot over Dragonite IMO, and I don't think people should be voting Latios solely for that reasoning, which many of you have. I feel like Dragonite has just been an all around more consistent Pokemon this generation, and its terrifying reign in BW1 shouldn't be ignored either.
 
Dragonite

Multiscale made it practically impossible to OHKO and it is one of the main reasons why Stealth Rock is mandatory on every team, which in my opinion is a bigger impact then Latios' Specs Draco Meteors
 
Dragonite

Multiscale made it practically impossible to OHKO and it is one of the main reasons why Stealth Rock is mandatory on every team, which in my opinion is a bigger impact then Latios' Specs Draco Meteors
I never really felt like SR was any more mandatory than it was in gen 4
 
Its a very tough call for me, as both Latios and Dragonite could hit you at the right time and wipe out everything left on your team. While I'm more inclined to say Dragonite based on how stupidly good Multiscale is, I'm going to vote Latios because it was still harder to deal with. As a matter of fact, I only run a sand team now because scarf T-Tar is one of the few reliable counters I've found to specs Latios.
 

Chou Toshio

Over9000
is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Deoxys-S

Again, it's just a stand-in for my opinions on Deoxys-S + D. Deoxys teams were as powerful and real (and almost as definable) as any weather team. During their periods at the forefront of OU, they totally shaped how the game was played.
 
Deoxys-S

None of the remaining Pokemon defined a metagame like Deoxys-S did. Sure, Pokemon like Latios, Dragonite and Scizor were consistently powerful top tier threats, but that doesn't make a titan. Before the Deo-S ban, you couldn't think of an HO team without using Deo-S.
 

Legitimate Username

NO PLAN SURVIVES
is a Top Artist Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Latios

Dragonite is a tempting option, but it's kind of just another physical dragon, and when you choose it, you're basically deciding you'd rather have Multiscale than Ground STAB, Moxie, or base 170 Atk. Latios's uniqueness as a special dragon means that it's had a lot more influence as an INDIVIDUAL rather than as part of a group. If Dragonite didn't exist, you'd have plenty of similar options to replace it with. Latios single-handedly defined Draco Meteor spam thanks to its major speed and power advantage compared to Hydreigon and Latias respectively, and thus they are used with more specialized roles. Because of this, Latios has overall more influence than Dragonite, and deserves the #10 spot.
 
Dragonite.


Dragonite means many things to different teams. To some, he is primer physical Dragon, with stats, movepool, ability and priority to set up almost effortlessly on various pokemons and even walls and proceed to sweep. To others, he is a glue, brought in to seal the holes that may exist in a team and counter a variety of threats including weather and other sweepers. Even if your style isn't offense and you still want a reliable tank, Dragonite can do that too, as he has considerable bulk and an arsenal of status, recovery and phazing moves on top of his useful resistances to common attacks and has been featured in various successful stall teams. In fact, if we display the number of viable sets he has, this pokemon is nothing short of amazing: phazer, tank, sweeper, bander, mixed, set-up, etc. Even if you chose to forgo him completely, you are still yet using him indirectly whenever you team build: as a bench mark. Is my physical wall ev'd well to tank a +1 Outrage? Do I have answers to boosted priorities? What do I have that can deal with him so I can keep my weather? Where is my SR and how do I keep it? What speedy mon do I have to stop this set up sweeper when I screw up? Didn't matter if they had better speed, pure Dragon typing, more attack, moxie, whatever it is they got or claimed to be better on paper, they never were a complete package.
 

AfroThunderRule

*yawn* ez
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Latios

I feel since it has been a solid top tier threat all through-out the generation it deserves to be on it. Though I guess that can apply to Dragonite and Scizor. :s All three are viable options for the last spot, but I gave the edge to Latios since it was on a few suspect tests early on and was a great force during that period.

Also sorry if this isn't allowed here but does anyone else think that Ninetales is really high on the list?
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Ok, as much as I think Doexys-S deserves #10 a million times more than either Dragonite or Latios, I'm changing my vote to Dragonite because I can see that it's coming down to those two and I believe that Dragonite had a much larger effect on the metagame than Latios did. It was much more threatening, versatile, and consistent. It also doesn't have the flaw that Latios does which I discussed earlier, namely being Pursuit weak.

Deoxys-S still deserves though >:[
 
It would be disappointing if Latios beat Dragonite.. Latios is so 1 dimensional compared to Dragonite. Dragonite has a much better movepool, can fit on a wider variety of teams, can fill several completely distinct roles, etc.
Dragonite is an uncounterable behemoth with EQ/Aqua Tail/Fire Punch/E Speed/Outrage/Superpower for physical options and Hurricane/Draco Meteor/Fire Blast/Thunder for special with even Dragon Tail/Thunder Wave/Roost being viable support options. Granted, you can't run everything at once, but just compare this to Latios's Draco/D Pulse, Surf, HP Fire, Psyshock and only running special attack sets outside of gimmicks..

Like I said before, Latios had its fair share of influence and actually contributed to Dnite's success, but Dnite really deserves this spot if they can't share it.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top