Format Discussion Scarlet/Violet Random Battle Sets

[MrFisch]

Essentially yeah, but it's more a code limitation than anything else. Getting e.g. 5 special attackers and a Chansey with Seismic Toss (physical!) isn't gonna help you against the opposing Blissey.

This is a miniscule chance, but mons generate in order. Hypno generated first, so when Carbink and Grimmsnarl generated after Hypno, they tried to have their screens removed but couldn't due to only having 5 moves. If Carbink had generated first, Hypno would have indeed not had any screens moves. There is no retrospective checking during generation to avoid endless code cycling, and server strain. This is not something that can be changed.

First of all, as someone who's involved in the tours scene a lot, you don't do yourself a favour by saying statements like "why else did many high ranked players leave because of gen 9 rands" when that... did not happen. Gen 9 is by far the biggest and most played format in showdown's history, with the most active ladder, and a remarkably higher activity ladder than gen 8 had. Gen 9 is an objectively popular format based on activity, and also an objectively high skill format based on ladder analysis. If high ranked players did leave, they weren't prominent enough for it to have been noticeable, which means they weren't really high ranked.

Aside from that, randbats are made technocratically, and via statistics. We track how any changes we make in set design impact that Pokémon's winrate, and if changes are positive or negative they stay or are reverted respectively. We don't need to overhaul not just the code but the actual inner functioning of Pokémon Showdown! (which would never get past the core Showdown! team, you're asking for the home page of the site to be changed here) in order to give players the option to have movesets that are statistically proven worse than what they would otherwise get. It doesn't make sense.

We don't just throw these inaccurate moves on mons for no reason, and try hard to ensure that wherever possible Pokémon have at least one reliable STAB move. But a format of solely 100% accurate moves isn't really functional.

thx again for the insights, you actually give good answers and explain why things are the way they are. i guess A cake with a hat just likes to give short, mean, meme answers to everyone that mentions fair critics with screens and reasoning, even if some of my points were proven not fixable due to coding - but these were simply facts i didnt know. so i just would like to add the question about why grimmsnarl and carbink only happen to have 5 available moves? especially grimmsnarl has so many good moves it can use. aside from the screener set, there was a popular bulk up set with tera fighting, drain punch, spirit break, sucker punch (instead of rest) and bulk up. item leftis. good set for rand battles. carbink is a bit harder but another set would be (sadly) a hazard set + moon blast, stone edge / body press with leftis or a meme set fitting for rand battles with AW to make use of its high special def., moves something like moonblast, stone edge, body press, earth power (tera fairy, rock, ground all viable) and adapt the lv cause obviously its on the weaker side.
why would those not be considered, when there are way weaker sets right now on other mons?
and is there a link to where we can see all the available sets for every mon right now? would like to go over them with a friend.

 

[RGijsbers01!]

ive notised that alot, and i mean alot of pokemon have choice items in the pool of random battles. ive had matches where 3 or more pokemon carry a choice item and alot of these pokemon use thier stat boosting moves or wide movepool to funktion. its at a point where the choice items are more problematic that my opponements team. i think this needs to be changed for random battles becouse im sick of seeing teams with 4 choice items

 

[Tarrembeau]

ive notised that alot, and i mean alot of pokemon have choice items in the pool of random battles. ive had matches where 3 or more pokemon carry a choice item and alot of these pokemon use thier stat boosting moves or wide movepool to funktion. its at a point where the choice items are more problematic that my opponements team. i think this needs to be changed for random battles becouse im sick of seeing teams with 4 choice items

We already reduced the rate of choice items from the pokemons movepool as much as it seems reasonable to do. Unfortunately, Gamefreak cut so many great tools from so many pokemons, it's difficult to build sets that are optimal without considering choice items for most of them. This may change once the DLC are introduced

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

thx again for the insights, you actually give good answers and explain why things are the way they are. i guess A cake with a hat just likes to give short, mean, meme answers to everyone that mentions fair critics with screens and reasoning, even if some of my points were proven not fixable due to coding - but these were simply facts i didnt know. so i just would like to add the question about why grimmsnarl and carbink only happen to have 5 available moves? especially grimmsnarl has so many good moves it can use. aside from the screener set, there was a popular bulk up set with tera fighting, drain punch, spirit break, sucker punch (instead of rest) and bulk up. item leftis. good set for rand battles. carbink is a bit harder but another set would be (sadly) a hazard set + moon blast, stone edge / body press with leftis or a meme set fitting for rand battles with AW to make use of its high special def., moves something like moonblast, stone edge, body press, earth power (tera fairy, rock, ground all viable) and adapt the lv cause obviously its on the weaker side.
why would those not be considered, when there are way weaker sets right now on other mons?
and is there a link to where we can see all the available sets for every mon right now? would like to go over them with a friend.

To be clear, they do have other sets. Grimmsnarl does have bulk up. Carbink does have a generally supportive bulky attacker set. Grimmsnarl also has a third general set with sucker punch and various support options. However, the problem with this is not that these sets exist. The problem is that random battles sets, by their very nature, do not reverse their process ever. This mean, once. Pokemon has picked a set from its available sets, it cannot go back and then pick a different one if the team tries to generate something it doesn't like. We truly cannot stop triple screeners without removing screens grimmsnarl or screens carbink from the format entirely. Would you like that?

You can see the sets in the Pokemon Showdown GitHub. However, because I'm currently on phone, I don't have a link available on hand. However, you can go to PS, type /git, click server source code, then go to /data/random-sets.json.

ive notised that alot, and i mean alot of pokemon have choice items in the pool of random battles. ive had matches where 3 or more pokemon carry a choice item and alot of these pokemon use thier stat boosting moves or wide movepool to funktion. its at a point where the choice items are more problematic that my opponements team. i think this needs to be changed for random battles becouse im sick of seeing teams with 4 choice items

We have a long term goal of reducing the frequency of choice items in the format as much as possible. This is a slow process and not one that can reasonably be "completed", per se. We have reduced the rate of teams with 3+ choice items from 13.6% to 11.2% since we started this initiative around March. Like Tarrem said, we're doing what we can, but a lot of mons don't have anything better available.

 

[MrFisch]

To be clear, they do have other sets. Grimmsnarl does have bulk up. Carbink does have a generally supportive bulky attacker set. Grimmsnarl also has a third general set with sucker punch and various support options. However, the problem with this is not that these sets exist. The problem is that random battles sets, by their very nature, do not reverse their process ever. This mean, once. Pokemon has picked a set from its available sets, it cannot go back and then pick a different one if the team tries to generate something it doesn't like. We truly cannot stop triple screeners without removing screens grimmsnarl or screens carbink from the format entirely. Would you like that?

You can see the sets in the Pokemon Showdown GitHub. However, because I'm currently on phone, I don't have a link available on hand. However, you can go to PS, type /git, click server source code, then go to /data/random-sets.json.

We have a long term goal of reducing the frequency of choice items in the format as much as possible. This is a slow process and not one that can reasonably be "completed", per se. We have reduced the rate of teams with 3+ choice items from 13.6% to 11.2% since we started this initiative around March. Like Tarrem said, we're doing what we can, but a lot of mons don't have anything better available.

Thx, found the folder with the sets
Just to be very clear and direct, I am not ur enemy Cake Hat. Im just a passionate pokemon lover and competitve person that is deep into vgc and found random battles a few years ago. If you are open to suggestions, i would gladly help and improve those sets but you have to be a bit more open minded. As of right now, it feels like your arguments are strictly based on data from ur website.
the literal first entry of ur code is charizard fast attacker set. it has flamethrower over fire blast (low accu move discussion). why? it has one 100% move in EQ, why no consistency there and put fire blast in ?

and about the grimmsnarl / carbink topic if i would be happy: yes and no. yes because, i like having less rng options that can f**k me over in a rng based mode. "dONt plAy rAnDom ThEn" - if this would always be the solution for every problem there exists..
no because obviously these are the favoured sets. but i got 2 questions for you:
1. it is obvious for light clay users to have both screens available. but there were metas, where you only had 1 of the screens that favoured the mon that moment. f.e. grimmsnarl - Drain punch, spirit break/sucker punch, bulk up, light screen ; leftis. screens usually get stalled anyway to the point where they were completely obsolete.
2. why the hard focus on these roles u set for them? if you cant fix the code, then you have to try solution B. u cant just sit there and say "hope rng doesnt kick ur a*, hahaha".
or very simple, of my dondozo screenshot from first post - imagine im a new player to the site, excited for pokemon random battles cause i heard of it or saw a fancy YT video. IMAGINE, his first game, this situation happens. 6 physical, enemy unaware don. do you think he will ever click the mode or even the site again? that dude is gone. and all he did was click "Battle!" - not even 1 attack chosen and he lost.
im typing too much again, i wana break down point by point. reading the sets now

 

[Irpachuza]

why no consistency there and put fire blast in ?

Consistency with what? We said before that Lucario already had a 100% acc STAB attack in Flash Cannon. Earthquake is not STAB.

 

[MrFisch]

Consistency with what? We said before that Lucario already had a 100% acc STAB attack in Flash Cannon. Earthquake is not STAB.

steel is only a descent offensive type. it literally has tera fighting on top of being fighting, means its 2.0 stab dmg. fighting, especially sp.atk, is really good offensive typing. it cant use it consistent but i was asked to stop asking about that topic so i wont go further into that

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

Thx, found the folder with the sets
Just to be very clear and direct, I am not ur enemy Cake Hat. Im just a passionate pokemon lover and competitve person that is deep into vgc and found random battles a few years ago. If you are open to suggestions, i would gladly help and improve those sets but you have to be a bit more open minded. As of right now, it feels like your arguments are strictly based on data from ur website.
the literal first entry of ur code is charizard fast attacker set. it has flamethrower over fire blast (low accu move discussion). why? it has one 100% move in EQ, why no consistency there and put fire blast in ?

and about the grimmsnarl / carbink topic if i would be happy: yes and no. yes because, i like having less rng options that can f**k me over in a rng based mode. "dONt plAy rAnDom ThEn" - if this would always be the solution for every problem there exists..
no because obviously these are the favoured sets. but i got 2 questions for you:
1. it is obvious for light clay users to have both screens available. but there were metas, where you only had 1 of the screens that favoured the mon that moment. f.e. grimmsnarl - Drain punch, spirit break/sucker punch, bulk up, light screen ; leftis. screens usually get stalled anyway to the point where they were completely obsolete.
2. why the hard focus on these roles u set for them? if you cant fix the code, then you have to try solution B. u cant just sit there and say "hope rng doesnt kick ur a*, hahaha".
or very simple, of my dondozo screenshot from first post - imagine im a new player to the site, excited for pokemon random battles cause i heard of it or saw a fancy YT video. IMAGINE, his first game, this situation happens. 6 physical, enemy unaware don. do you think he will ever click the mode or even the site again? that dude is gone. and all he did was click "Battle!" - not even 1 attack chosen and he lost.
im typing too much again, i wana break down point by point. reading the sets now

Charizard does not have Fire Blast because it has Hurricane. Moltres has Brave Bird, so it can afford to run Fire Blast. lucario has Flash Cannon, so it can randomly roll between one of Aura and Focus. (Yes, it can have aura sphere; we definitely recognize the benefit of it) These are all consistent with the policy stated above. I've even tried getting flare blitz over pyro ball on Cinderace, honestly, but the staff werent with me on that suggestion.

Speaking of bringing things to the staff, I'll propose removing the screens sets for Grimm and Carbink. Thanks for the suggestion. I cannot guarantee any action will be taken on it, but it will be discussed. Please let us know if you have other suggestikns involving sets.

Anyways, as much as we wish to fix the issue of generating 6 physical mons or something like that, we actually straight up arent able to. If it wouldn't be a Herculean effort to do so, we would have already implemented it.

I recommend checking out the essay I wrote on the explanation of the roles system and the team generator itself-- it will help you understand the format much better, especially when it comes to which suggestions are actually feasible for us. You can either find it pinned in this subforum, or available via a link when you type "/rfaq setdev" in the random battles PS room. Again, on phone, so I'm sorry for the treasure hunt.

 

[MrFisch]

Charizard does not have Fire Blast because it has Hurricane. Moltres has Brave Bird, so it can afford to run Fire Blast. lucario has Flash Cannon, so it can randomly roll between one of Aura and Focus. (Yes, it can have aura sphere; we definitely recognize the benefit of it) These are all consistent with the policy stated above. I've even tried getting flare blitz over pyro ball on Cinderace, honestly, but the staff werent with me on that suggestion.

Speaking of bringing things to the staff, I'll propose removing the screens sets for Grimm and Carbink. Thanks for the suggestion. I cannot guarantee any action will be taken on it, but it will be discussed. Please let us know if you have other suggestikns involving sets.

Anyways, as much as we wish to fix the issue of generating 6 physical mons or something like that, we actually straight up arent able to.

it can get aura sphere? well then i got bad rng on this aswell KEKW but good to know, then i will shut up on this part. 1:0 for u.
i would actually be on ur side with the flare blitz over pyro ball lol. but only on Blaze sets instead of protean (recoil dmg, closer to Blaze range over time etc.). Protean sucks now anyways and cinderace is not known for its bulk. pls try that suggestion again :)

And I would only suggest to remove the screen set from grimmsnarl, since for 1vs1, its screen set is worse than the setup cause of its stat distribution. carbink is literally garbage (sry fancy rock) and its only purpose should be screens or hazards.

my friend is now here aswell, we start going through all the sets and making some notes.

thx for reading mate

 

[MrFisch]

I recommend checking out the essay I wrote on the explanation of the roles system and the team generator itself-- it will help you understand the format much better, especially when it comes to which suggestions are actually feasible for us. You can either find it pinned in this subforum, or available via a link when you type "/rfaq setdev" in the random battles PS room. Again, on phone, so I'm sorry for the treasure hunt.

hello again, we have gone through complete gen 1 - 4 the past 3h and as of right now, we discussed the following changes. if you need further explenations on why we suggest specific changes, feel free to ask.
we continue with gen 5-9 on the weekend if possible.

charizard (fast attacker) - add tera-blast, remove EQ. tera type: ground.
deserves to be a tera-blast mon for good reasons. in gen 8, people played Scorching Sands (without gmax) just for the coverage.

gyarados (setup sweeper) - add Iron Head, remove Stone Edge.
Hits fairy, rock, ice for very effective. hits flying neutral. Better coverage.

articuno (kanto) - remove hurricane, add brave bird.
it has roost, has almost same offensive stats and mixed sets can surprise and makes it able to hit many AV users.

mewtwo: remove Recover (useless move, it doesnt boost its defences and only has "descent" bulk for a legendary or add calm mind instead of nasty plot.

mew: remove Bulky support set.
you aknowledged the problematic of the hazard meta and lack of removal for it. you dont have to add more sets that cause the problem to it when it literally has access to every move and should be a (setup) sweeper.

swalot (new set idea OR instead of bulky setup) AV Pivot
moves: acid spray, sludge bomb, giga drain, shadow ball
tera options: grass, dark, poison,

whiscash (setup sweeper) - remove stone edge, add Outrage. add tera dragon.
better coverage, same idea of setup charizard

vespiquen : increase to lv 99 or 100.
new set: thief support, item: none. moves: thief, u-turn, acrobatics, roost, toxic
tera type: dragon

bronzong: remove hypnosis. add body press. hypnosis

lucario (setup sweeper) - add dragon pulse, add tera-dragon. flash cannon hits both weaknesses (ice, fairy) and resists fire.

glaceon: add stored power, coverage vs fighting and overall.

palkia (fast attacker) - remove draco meteor and add heavy slam (can hit his other weakness hard, all fairy mony are lightweight - almost full bp guaranteed except for zacian crowned. remove hydro pump, add surfer (1 STAB 100% accu move, doesnt have one yet and only 20BP dif.)

palkia (bulky attacker) - remove hydro pump, add surfer (1 STAB 100% accu move, doesnt have one yet and only 20BP dif.) add heavy slam to the pool, so it can attack alongside draco meteor after special attack drop.

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

hello again, we have gone through complete gen 1 - 4 the past 3h and as of right now, we discussed the following changes. if you need further explenations on why we suggest specific changes, feel free to ask.
we continue with gen 5-9 on the weekend if possible.

charizard (fast attacker) - add tera-blast, remove EQ. tera type: ground.
deserves to be a tera-blast mon for good reasons. in gen 8, people played Scorching Sands (without gmax) just for the coverage.

gyarados (setup sweeper) - add Iron Head, remove Stone Edge.
Hits fairy, rock, ice for very effective. hits flying neutral. Better coverage.

articuno (kanto) - remove hurricane, add brave bird.
it has roost, has almost same offensive stats and mixed sets can surprise and makes it able to hit many AV users.

mewtwo: remove Recover (useless move, it doesnt boost its defences and only has "descent" bulk for a legendary or add calm mind instead of nasty plot.

mew: remove Bulky support set.
you aknowledged the problematic of the hazard meta and lack of removal for it. you dont have to add more sets that cause the problem to it when it literally has access to every move and should be a (setup) sweeper.

swalot (new set idea OR instead of bulky setup) AV Pivot
moves: acid spray, sludge bomb, giga drain, shadow ball
tera options: grass, dark, poison,

whiscash (setup sweeper) - remove stone edge, add Outrage. add tera dragon.
better coverage, same idea of setup charizard

vespiquen : increase to lv 99 or 100.
new set: thief support, item: none. moves: thief, u-turn, acrobatics, roost, toxic
tera type: dragon

bronzong: remove hypnosis. add body press. hypnosis

lucario (setup sweeper) - add dragon pulse, add tera-dragon. flash cannon hits both weaknesses (ice, fairy) and resists fire.

glaceon: add stored power, coverage vs fighting and overall.

palkia (fast attacker) - remove draco meteor and add heavy slam (can hit his other weakness hard, all fairy mony are lightweight - almost full bp guaranteed except for zacian crowned. remove hydro pump, add surfer (1 STAB 100% accu move, doesnt have one yet and only 20BP dif.)

palkia (bulky attacker) - remove hydro pump, add surfer (1 STAB 100% accu move, doesnt have one yet and only 20BP dif.) add heavy slam to the pool, so it can attack alongside draco meteor after special attack drop.

We'll discuss these. You may see any that pass in the Random Battles Changelog thread. Thank you.

Preemptively:
Tera Blast Ground Charizard is denied; we have a specific role for users of Tera Blast. Every Tera Blast user must have the Tera Blast user role, and the Tera Blast user role is limited to 26 Pokemon maximum, because there can only be one per team and increasing the frequency of Tera Blast users more than that would dilute the frequency of good sets like Tera Blast Polteageist.

Level buffs occur via the winrates visible via "/rwr" on Showdown. Vespiquen may make it to 100 in time.

Stored Power Glaceon will not function due to how Glaceon's moveset generates: Protect and Wish always generate together, and Glaceon always gets wishtect, so the only time Stored Power could even be rolled is on sets WITHOUT Calm Mind.

We've already discussed Surf Palkia at length; the staff consider the 95 accuracy of Spacial Rend to be "enough". I know, it's unfortunate.

Fast attacker Palkia always runs a Choice item. Giving it Heavy Slam would make it always Lustrous Orb instead and would completely delete Scarf and Specs Palkia. The staff don't want to do that, but given we've got an abundance of choice item users I'll bring up removing the Fast Attacker set nonetheless.

 

[MrFisch]

We'll discuss these. You may see any that pass in the Random Battles Changelog thread. Thank you.

Preemptively:
Tera Blast Ground Charizard is denied; we have a specific role for users of Tera Blast. Every Tera Blast user must have the Tera Blast user role, and the Tera Blast user role is limited to 26 Pokemon maximum, because there can only be one per team and increasing the frequency of Tera Blast users more than that would dilute the frequency of good sets like Tera Blast Polteageist.

Level buffs occur via the winrates visible via "/rwr" on Showdown. Vespiquen may make it to 100 in time.

Stored Power Glaceon will not function due to how Glaceon's moveset generates: Protect and Wish always generate together, and Glaceon always gets wishtect, so the only time Stored Power could even be rolled is on sets WITHOUT Calm Mind.

We've already discussed Surf Palkia at length; the staff consider the 95 accuracy of Spacial Rend to be "enough". I know, it's unfortunate.

Fast attacker Palkia always runs a Choice item. Giving it Heavy Slam would make it always Lustrous Orb instead and would completely delete Scarf and Specs Palkia. The staff don't want to do that, but given we've got an abundance of choice item users I'll bring up removing the Fast Attacker set nonetheless.

good morning! ah i almost thought so about charizard. but isnt there another mon that could get rid of tera blast, maybe talonflame or one that doesnt "matter"?
unlucky for glaceon, im just tired of having 20 wish calm mind setters in the format ^^'
"the staff consider.." - thats what i meant with consistency. it doesnt always generate with rend, so its left with a 90% accu d.meteor that makes it useless after 1 + its almost the same for the thunder / tbolt - only 20BP dif. idk why the staff has to decide for their personal feeling, rather their own rules of consistency. same for the choice item set but awesome u said it urself :D less choice items, more happy people :)
thx for reading and have an awesome day cake

 

[Dratios]

Would Agility on Gallade be a worthwhile option, or does it lack the offensive presence to clean without something like SD or a Choice Band?

 

[bobomania]

Would Agility on Gallade be a worthwhile option, or does it lack the offensive presence to clean without something like SD or a Choice Band?

currently being discussed my impression is that it would lack the power of SD/band and miss out on the immediate speed of scarf, not to mention it would require to split the set as i dont think a double dance situation would be good on gallade (50% of gallades would have to be agility, in that case)

 

[MrFisch]

4 choice item team again lul
6v7 team (still won). shouldnt it have gotten better with generating less per team?

 

[Celever]

4 choice item team again lul
6v7 team (still won). shouldnt it have gotten better with generating less per team?

We can't outright prevent this from happening, all we can do is attempt to reduce the amount of choice within the format as much as possible while maintaining that Pokémon should be receiving their optimal sets or something similar.

Would Agility on Gallade be a worthwhile option, or does it lack the offensive presence to clean without something like SD or a Choice Band?

FWIW my view is Agility Gallade is a good idea, and there have been others agreeing or disagreeing with this. So it may or may not happen!

 

[MrFisch]

a short one, boots dont really make sense on this mon. makes more use of life orb or even an AV set with another coverage move like flash cannon vs ice mons, mirror coat overall good or even charge up beam for the luls. has great pivot potential and is a relatively fast volt switch user.

 

[Smucky]

Would Agility on Gallade be a worthwhile option, or does it lack the offensive presence to clean without something like SD or a Choice Band?

Heyo new to the forum but just wanted to give my two cents on this since I think agility + life orb it's a good idea.

I think Life Orb Gallade has a pretty strong offensive presence, easily being able to OHKO even moderately physically bulky mons with a SE move, and potentially OHKOing particularly physically frail mons with a neutral effective move; any rocks or spikes up further expands this list. Getting an agility boost would really help Gallade turn the tables against the long list of faster mons that can OHKO by taking advantage of it's poor physical defense or pretty mediocre defensive typing. And with its surprisingly good spdef stat (w/ albeit a less than good HP stat), setting up an agility against a more passive mon shouldn't be too difficult. I can totally see the banded/scarf sets being more consistent overall, but I think agility seems good enough in theory to at least warrant a shot.

 

[Dratios]

Is there any way to give hazard removal a higher priority when generating teams? I know Gen 9 has less of it overall, but it feels like time and time again I've had teams totally kneecapped because not a single mon on the team can get hazards off.

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

Is there any way to give hazard removal a higher priority when generating teams? I know Gen 9 has less of it overall, but it feels like time and time again I've had teams totally kneecapped because not a single mon on the team can get hazards off.

None that we haven't already put in place.

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

Would Agility on Gallade be a worthwhile option, or does it lack the offensive presence to clean without something like SD or a Choice Band?

Turns out we're going to have to table this for technical reasons until we have more than just Gallade reasons to completely overhaul the conditions for generating Weakness Policy, because we don't want Weakness Policy Gallade. Maybe post-DLC?

 

[MrFisch]

Maybe post-DLC?

About that, isnt it mentioned somewhere, that confirmed, returning DLC mons will be added to the Random Battle roster before official DLC release? or did i missread something? If not, when will they be added?

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

About that, isnt it mentioned somewhere, that confirmed, returning DLC mons will be added to the Random Battle roster before official DLC release? or did i missread something? If not, when will they be added?

We're specifically not doing that ever again; leadership has changed drastically since the early gen 8 days, so we aren't going to make the same mistakes as our predecessors of blindly trusting leaks that aren't official. We had sets that turned out to be fully illegal like Play Rough Close Combat Tapu Koko, last time. Don't want to make mistakes like that again.

They'll be added when they're in the game.

 

[gregdawiz]

Not sure if this was posted or if this is a known thing that occasionally happens, but right now Eiscue is at an hp value that makes it take exactly 25% from stealth rocks. This makes its typical sub-belly drum play worse since it cant get the sub and still belly drum if rocks are up. Is it considered heresy to give rock weak mons that 1 extra point in hp that allows it to take live rocks an additional time?

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

Not sure if this was posted or if this is a known thing that occasionally happens, but right now Eiscue is at an hp value that makes it take exactly 25% from stealth rocks. This makes its typical sub-belly drum play worse since it cant get the sub and still belly drum if rocks are up. Is it considered heresy to give rock weak mons that 1 extra point in hp that allows it to take live rocks an additional time?

Eiscue with Substitute has a Salac Berry. 4-divisible HP is necessary to activate Salac Berry after Substitute + Belly Drum. If Stealth Rock is up, you typically want to just use Belly Drum and activate the Salac Berry that way, disregarding Substitute. We are not interested in making it so that Eiscue MUST have stealth rock chip before being able to activate its Salac Berry.