Resource RBY Simple Questions & Simple Answers Thread

[Trivinexity]

Why is MissingNo banned?

About MissingNo, Red/Blue MissingNo is a glass cannon, but it's a lot more glass than cannon. It knows sky attack, which could be good with its attack stat of 136, but its base HP stat of 33, special of 6, and defense stat of ZERO certainly aren't letting it survive two turns. Even if it uses something else, a speed stat of 29 doesn't help. The only way it deals damage is if the opponent uses a status or stat improving move, TWICE, allowing it to attack, or if you have focus sash. It has a decent TM movepool, learning a few good moves, (check https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/MissingNo.#Normal_Red_and_Blue_form_2 ) but that's about it. It's trash. However, Yellow Version's MissingNo is absolutely TERRIBLE. It has an great HP stat of 178, but a pitiful defense stat of 11, so it might be able to take a hit, but all its other stats are GARBAGE. R/B MissingNo can outspeed some things, like Ferrothorn,(not even in the same gen), which has a speed stat of 20, but yellow MissingNo has a speed stat of flat ZERO. Your only chance at hitting a move is if it's status, if it doesn't kill, (HP stat of 178 helps with that), or, again, focus sash. Even if you manage to land a move, all 3 of yellow's moves are TERRIBLE. It can learn pay day, bind, and water gun. That's IT. No TMs at all. Just those three. That is all it gets. In addition to it's moves, it has an attack stat of 19, and a special stat of 23, so they won't even do good damage. It's useless. What do you think about MissingNo? Could it ever be good?

 

[Billybobman]

In a hypothetical tier where glitch pokemon are the only option, which ones would be viable, which ones would be garbage (like yellow ver. MissingNo.), and which ones would be banned? (Disregarding game breaking stuff like 4 4's front sprite, and super glitch moves).

I dunno if a tier like this would fly, from what I've read other metas with gen 1 aren't popular enough.
I wouldn't be against trying a meta like that out, but even rby ou feels like it doesn't have enough players sometimes, to me anyways.

 

[Acetylaldehyde]

2 things:
1) I don't think it's fair to say RBY doesn't have enough players. RBYPL is ongoing, with 6 teams all with 10+players, with many great players not signining up, or other capable people not getting picked up. Granted, many of those who play a low tier, play many of the low tiers, so the player base does get stretched a tad, I'll give you that. The issue is then which metas are you going to focus on. Which brings me to item 2...

2) as for a glitchmon meta and missingno, it just wouldn't be that fun. I think you overstate missingno's usefulness. It's slow and dies to any hit. Your arguments revolve around an opponent not understanding the mon and making the wrong play (choosing to set-up or switch instead of just attacking). This may work once or twice, but in a developed meta you'd never see this. Also, Sky-Attack is trash due to it's 2-turn nature (leaving your 0 defense mon open to attack), and it doesn't get STAB.
As for the whole meta, all the glitch mons are basically trash or stupidly overpowered (like, Mewtwo looks trash in comparison), with nothing in between. This would likely lead to a simultaneously stale and unstable meta, mostly being decided by whoever's F2/C1/whatever crits first.
Big Yellow made a video on this a while back, so if you're actually curious, I'd point you to that:

Video

 

[Trivinexity]

I think you overstate missingno's usefulness.

i literally called it useless and trash twice what

 

[Trivinexity]

As for the whole meta, all the glitch mons are basically trash or stupidly overpowered (like, Mewtwo looks trash in comparison), with nothing in between.

in a tier where they are the only option, wouldn't that make the overpowered ones standard? besides, there's enough unique ones across red and blue for a lot of unique teams, so there could be some variety. plus the hybrids (same stats as a real mon, diff moves) exist, which could be fun to play with. Maybe somebody will find a broken use for the gllitch moves like HM05 (regular attack) or TM07 (without the game freeze, of course). I think a glitchmon tier would be fun, but really hard to make.

 

[Billybobman]

in a tier where they are the only option, wouldn't that make the overpowered ones standard? besides, there's enough unique ones across red and blue for a lot of unique teams, so there could be some variety. plus the hybrids (same stats as a real mon, diff moves) exist, which could be fun to play with. Maybe somebody will find a broken use for the gllitch moves like HM05 (regular attack) or TM07 (without the game freeze, of course). I think a glitchmon tier would be fun, but really hard to make.

I'm very much a fan of Other Metas, they are what I would play the most before RBY OU. It's fun to figure out how to make mons work like things like being a strong option in Shared Power depending on what's being banned and what is legal. The current gen tends to have the most players for whatever reason, and OMs tend to be based off of the current gen due to there being a good amount of people who are interested in it. RBY has a lot less players on ladder in comparison to the current gen, and among those players, there may not be enough interest in such things.

I wouldn't mind trying it out myself, but I don't think there is enough interest in it unfortunately.

Also, glitch moves sound kinda wack. I personally haven't looked very deeply into glitchmons for gen 1. If there is a server that runs glitch mons or OMs for gen 1 and it has a bot that we can play against, please let me know.

Anyways, if you have a craving for trying crazy or different stuff, maybe check out the OMs: Other Metagames | Smogon Forums.
For RBY stuff, I wouldn't know which meta or pet mod would have someone you could play with. Gen1 STABmons could be cool, but I feel like it would be hard to get a game going.

 

[Sucessorsrising99]

Alright i heard in big yellow's recent video that the electric types aren't doing good in rby? Explain what went so wrong with zapdos and jolteon.

 

[Amaranth]

Alright i heard in big yellow's recent video that the electric types aren't doing good in rby? Explain what went so wrong with zapdos and jolteon.

big yellow is slightly outdated / blowing something out of proportion
they saw a pretty natural dip in usage but that just led to people underprepping for them, they are actually winning quite a lot if you look at usage from recent tournaments, for example roapl

 

[Sucessorsrising99]

Alright level with me. Why did people think golem was bulkier than rhydon early days. Did they forget to take into account hp all that time? Were they that oblivious. It seems silly that the misconception that golem was bulkier than rhydon shouldn't have ever existed.

 

[Sucessorsrising99]

Plague von karma's video on the history of the golem vs rhydon debate.

 

[Teh]

Plague von karma's video on the history of the golem vs rhydon debate.

i dont think anyone who did the math actually believed that. pretty sure she just said that despite golem's higher defence stat, it has worse bulk in practice.

 

[Plancklength]

I think in earlier RBY metas, golem's ability to remove something via a boom was sort of considered a defensive trait, almost. While rhydon has a much more realistic shot to do something impressive offensively if the other team is paralyzed, golem is instead better able to remove a single specific threat, or at least force the opponent to switch and let something get boomed on. This would admittedly be a more noticeable trait if RBY OU had more in the way of set-up sweepers (or golem explosion could at least kill slowbro).

Golem's actual bulk is objectively worse than rhydon (by ~3% physically and ~7% specially).

 

[Sevi 7]

I didn’t start playing competitive RBY until late ‘14 and didn’t really start to try and try to get into it until ‘15, so I can’t quite talk for people back then. Maybe somebody who played more than like Ortheore or Marcoasd can confirm or deny this.
But Golem was a better mon in the old mech days, and people weren’t just unaware of how good Rhydon was back then. Rhydon was considered the better mon in terms of pure offense and defense. But the prospect of boom was too good to pass up, because boom was better during the old mechs.
A meta where Lax runs Self-Destruct instead of Reflect, and where Normals can be paralyzed with Body Slam. is much better for Explosion than what we have now. And to some it was enough to off-set Rhydon’s better bulk and attack. To other people, they still thought boom wasn’t worth it and always played Don. But again, it’s not that players then were just not seeing things well or just didn’t understand what worked and what didn’t.

 

[CrapAtRBY]

It was definitely known that Rhydon was physically bulkier as far back as 2010

https://rby2k10.proboards.com/thread/1111/physical-special-defensiveness

Rhydon did have its advocates in the old meta and was probably underrated in hindsight, but like Sevi says things like Earthquake 2HKOing Chansey and 3HKOing Snorlax, 101HP subs etc... were less valuable back then when Chansey and Snorlax were taking Body Slam paras

 

[Sevi 7]

Can someone explain the uptick in lead Starmie in Ubers? I keep seeing it get used, but I don’t see it do anything. And I don’t think it does anything unique as a lead, but I’m probably overlooking something.
From what I’ve seen it this year’s RBYPL, it seems like you’re playing 5.5 v 6 with lead Mie, but there’s got be something I missing.

 

[Zowayix]

Silly question: If there was a serious Japanese Red/Green metagame, would Blizzard be banned? It's almost literally a buffed Sheer Cold (27% chance to freeze permanently, 63% chance to be a 120-power move, 10% chance to miss).

 

[Ortheore]

Impossible to say given that it's purely hypothetical, but I think the answer is yes it would likely be banned. We ban OHKO moves after all, which would be a close comparison.

 

[MinerTurtle45]

is there any sort of team-sharing space besides the Sample Teams thread? despite not feeling like i would personally be able to play it, the RBY meta fascinates me and i wanna see how someone would put together a team that supports an off-meta pick like an SD sweeper or something, and all the samples are the tried-and-true beginner friendly team styles

 

[Teh]

is there any sort of team-sharing space besides the Sample Teams thread? despite not feeling like i would personally be able to play it, the RBY meta fascinates me and i wanna see how someone would put together a team that supports an off-meta pick like an SD sweeper or something, and all the samples are the tried-and-true beginner friendly team styles

you're looking for the rby jank thread
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-ou-ladder-jank-discussion-thread.3709171/

 

[Sucessorsrising99]

It was definitely known that Rhydon was physically bulkier as far back as 2010

https://rby2k10.proboards.com/thread/1111/physical-special-defensiveness

Rhydon did have its advocates in the old meta and was probably underrated in hindsight, but like Sevi says things like Earthquake 2HKOing Chansey and 3HKOing Snorlax, 101HP subs etc... were less valuable back then when Chansey and Snorlax were taking Body Slam paras

Why did it take even that long to figure our rhydon was bulkier than golem? 2010 Really? I say by 2004 this should've been known.
This is what i mean by 2002 the damage formula should've been solved.

 

[Longfellow]

People never thought Golem was bulkier than Rhydon. You just made that up. Everyone has always known Rhydon is bulkier.

RBY was already being simulated on Porygon's Big Show with the correct damage formula as early as 2000. PBS's battle logs output Pokémon's health in percentages, so it was immediately obvious to anyone that Rhydon was bulkier, since it'd be taking less damage in percent.

 

[Ortheore]

Why did it take even that long to figure our rhydon was bulkier than golem? 2010 Really? I say by 2004 this should've been known.
This is what i mean by 2002 the damage formula should've been solved.

Bro, that 2010 post isn't some discovery, it's just compiling and comparing existing information. They only linked it to show evidence that this not a new revelation- you'd be hard pressed to find evidence of anything prior to then because so little gets preserved

Your assumption that people ever thought Golem was bulkier than Rhydon is fundamentally wrong, therefore asking why people thought otherwise is literally not a valid question because they didn't think that at all

 

[CrapAtRBY]

With Ubers UU becoming an official metagame, would there be any interest in doing an Ubers UU for RBY, where we banned just the most broken Ubers like Mew and Mewtwo?

 

[Tree69420]

With Ubers UU becoming an official metagame, would there be any interest in doing an Ubers UU for RBY, where we banned just the most broken Ubers like Mew and Mewtwo?

That's a good idea! A tier like this would allow pokemon not as good in Ubers such as Chansey, Starmie, and Alakazam to shine.

 

[Gamer1234556]

The concept of creating an "Ubers UU" (UnderUsed) tier for the Red/Blue/Yellow (RBY) generation of Pokémon games is an interesting one. This would involve banning the most overwhelmingly powerful Pokémon, typically Mew and Mewtwo in the context of RBY, and focusing on the next level of powerful Pokémon that aren't as dominant as those in the standard Ubers tier.

Interest in such a tier would depend on the Pokémon competitive community's enthusiasm for revisiting the older generation games with a new twist.

OU? What kind of shitty tier is that?