Sleeping/KO-ing a sleeper is best, but just in case they have another one, why don't let them sleep Jynx so that they don't sleep anything else? That would mean we're both out of sleepers - isn't it a fair trade? And if Hypnosis fails first turn, I also leave their Gengar with a large bleeding wound or potentially KO it with critical hit. Gengar can't do much other than put something to sleep. But what it can is switch into my Explosion/Self-Destruct. Wouldn't it be more beneficial to take away from them both of the two main benefits of runnung Gengar than just sleep it, no longer be able to sleep anything else and never be safe when exploding?
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Resource RBY Simple Questions & Simple Answers Thread
- Thread starter phoopes
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How are you sleeping anything if your Jynx is asleep my guy? If you Blizzard the Exeggutor and it sleeps your Jynx who's putting anything else to sleep? As I said multiple times if you have a backup sleeper in addition to Jynx the situation is different
Precisely what I was talking about: I sacrifice my ability to sleep in exchange for their ability to sleep. How is it not a fair trade? Just play without sleep. And if I'm lucky, I KO Gengar first turn, and than I CAN sleep stuff. So I either don't lose anything most of the time, or I play 6v5 if I'm lucky.
(btw I have Gengar as a backup sleeper on my Uber team, but I mainly use its Thunderbolt + Explosion combo for stopping Slowbro and only sleep stuff if I'm absolutely desparate cos 60% accuracy)
But they've slept your Jynx and you've slept nothing... you have a 5v6 most of the time. Sure the 6th might be a low HP Exeggutor, but it's one explosion away from a 5v4 and now you're just down a clean mon because your Jynx is sleeping and it's not managed to sleep anything else. Blizzarding an Exeggutor is just about the only way you can ever get an unfavorable outcome from a Jynx vs Egg lead (bar misses of course)
Ok, I think I'm convinced. I'll try it. Thanks!
So for the Gengar, Psychic is pretty much a clearly better move than Hypnosis. There was an old thread that went into this, but I cant be bothered finding it now. From memory the odds if neither switches (or explodes) are something like, with LK you have a 25% chance of sleeping the Gengar, and with Psychic you have a 20% chance of KOing the Gengar. Furthermore, with LK its all or nothing, whereas with Psychic you have a bit over 40% chance of doing 50%. That extra 5% chance of having a positive outcome just isnt worth the additional value of the chance of the KO, let alone the benefit of the extra damage.
[edit] - https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/what-are-the-odds-gengar-vs-jynx.3540380/
My memory was poor!
But still, even with 37% vs 22%, that 15% isnt really worth it in light of the significantly better outcome when KOing.
Basically the potential outcomes are like:
- 56% of the time Jynx is slept without attacking so it doesnt matter what move you used.
- 22% of the time Psychic KOs before hypnosis hits, so whatever LK did, Psychic is altogether better.
- Of the remaining 22% of the time, you have something like 3% of the time where both Jynxes gets put to sleep anyway but the Psychic line has done 50% and the LK line has done nothing.
- Leaving about 19% of the time where LK is better than Psychic, although, the Psychic does have the compensation of damage on that Gengar.
For Eggy, think about it this way. If you were the Eggy user, and you knew 100% what move your opponent was going to do, what would you do? Like, if you knew for certain that Jynx is Blizzarding, are you really gonna stay in with Eggy to Sleep Powder? I'm only ever doing that if I am really fucking scared of that Jynx. But taking a Lovely Kiss? If I have a backup sleeper, then for sure. I am happy to sleep absorb with Eggy, especially with that chance of getting my sleep off first. By having Blizzard in your repertoire, you force the Eggy to switch, which is what you want.
Note: usual caveats around relative skill of your opponents apply.
[edit] - https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/what-are-the-odds-gengar-vs-jynx.3540380/
My memory was poor!
But still, even with 37% vs 22%, that 15% isnt really worth it in light of the significantly better outcome when KOing.
Basically the potential outcomes are like:
- 56% of the time Jynx is slept without attacking so it doesnt matter what move you used.
- 22% of the time Psychic KOs before hypnosis hits, so whatever LK did, Psychic is altogether better.
- Of the remaining 22% of the time, you have something like 3% of the time where both Jynxes gets put to sleep anyway but the Psychic line has done 50% and the LK line has done nothing.
- Leaving about 19% of the time where LK is better than Psychic, although, the Psychic does have the compensation of damage on that Gengar.
For Eggy, think about it this way. If you were the Eggy user, and you knew 100% what move your opponent was going to do, what would you do? Like, if you knew for certain that Jynx is Blizzarding, are you really gonna stay in with Eggy to Sleep Powder? I'm only ever doing that if I am really fucking scared of that Jynx. But taking a Lovely Kiss? If I have a backup sleeper, then for sure. I am happy to sleep absorb with Eggy, especially with that chance of getting my sleep off first. By having Blizzard in your repertoire, you force the Eggy to switch, which is what you want.
Note: usual caveats around relative skill of your opponents apply.
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I was about to do the math but thankfully there are indeed old threads confirming the quite obvious math - Lovely Kiss hitting is 75, Psychic critting is 18.6, LK "wins" a lot more. Obviously the Psychic crit win is a better scenario because you also sleep something afterwards, but the Hypnosis -> Psychic miss scenario isn't even much of a win because Gengar now threatens Explosion on T2 and you have to win that mindgame too (Explosion Gar on Jynx is ofc a wildly favorable scenario considering most standard Gengar and Jynx structures - one has a backup sleeper, one doesn't).
You are misinforming new players. Please stop.
I wouldn't be the Eggy user to begin with tbh because I don't even know what Eggy lead structures would exist. But presumably they'd be boomspams that want to accelerate the game, presumably they don't have the strongest Jynx answers in the back (otherwise why not lead them?), I'm 100% staying in to Sleep Powder or - honestly likelier - Explode and come in with my Gengar or whatever else I'm running.
So if Eggy's move is Explosion - same deal as Gengar match up - Blizzard has that crit/freeze chance (like <25% approx from mental math) to go 6v5, sweet, but it leads to a 4v5 when it doesn't hit using the logical assumptions (again, no backup sleep for Jynx, backup sleep for Egg). Whereas Lovely Kiss gets you a temporary 6v5 + freefire Blizzards on a team that presumably isn't very prepared for them + eventually a 5v5. The 4v5 worst case scenario is the same as Blizzard's (Eggy getting the Explosion off) but LK makes it way less likely.
Admittedly - some assumptions here about what the Eggy team is built for. But considering Eggy lead doesn't really exist in the meta at all currently, I think you have to do some assumptions about what it's there for either way.
See the edit... @_@
That's better but I would still make the case that you massively overpromise on the scenario where Hypnosis misses and Psychic doesn't crit - Gengar's biggest threat in that position (Explosion) is still present, Psychic does relatively little to dissuade it.
Again, it's way different if the Jynx has a backup sleeper. But when she's the only sleeper on the team, she should either play it ultra safe (switching out, play a 5v5 with a Jynx if you really must) or at least safe-ish (take the best possible chances to remove Gengar's threats ASAP) rather than greed for a very low odds gamechanging crit IMO
Let's say I have both Jynx (Lovely Kiss, Counter, Psychic, Blizzard) and Gengar (Hypnosis, Counter, Explosion, Thunderbolt), what would be a preferred lead?
This is my Uber team, might not be the most balanced ever, but at least I get some wins with it, and I'm going to modify it slightly for OU in July by simply replacing Mew and Mewtwo with Tauros and, idk, maybe Rhydon. Or maybe with some tricky Exeggutor set, cos I got used to have two exploding options, helps me not fall to paralysis Hyper Beam trap.
So far my logic is to not reveal Gengar for as long as possible in case I need to take their Explosion or something. Or, specifically in Ubers, I carry Gengar as my only answer to Slowbro, and I don't want my opponent to force me to switch Gengar in for them to eliminate it before they bring Slowbro and destroy my Mewtwo in a PP contest.
This is my Uber team, might not be the most balanced ever, but at least I get some wins with it, and I'm going to modify it slightly for OU in July by simply replacing Mew and Mewtwo with Tauros and, idk, maybe Rhydon. Or maybe with some tricky Exeggutor set, cos I got used to have two exploding options, helps me not fall to paralysis Hyper Beam trap.
So far my logic is to not reveal Gengar for as long as possible in case I need to take their Explosion or something. Or, specifically in Ubers, I carry Gengar as my only answer to Slowbro, and I don't want my opponent to force me to switch Gengar in for them to eliminate it before they bring Slowbro and destroy my Mewtwo in a PP contest.
If we are going into it like that, the outcomes after something happens (IE its not just 100% awake Gengar facing 100% awake Jynx) are like this:
- 56% Jynx is asleep and it doesnt matter what you did
- 8% Psychic kills Gengar, so Psychic Jynx is definitely better
- 31% Gengar is either sleeping or it took 50% damage and failed to put Jynx to sleep
- 5% The LK Jynx gets put to sleep, or Gengar is at 50% and Jynx is awake
(note: its late so this maths is very back-of-the-envelope here)
Here we have 13% of the time Psychic is clearly better and 8% of those it is a _lot_ better. And then the remaining 31% of the time, the outcome is better for LK, but still clearly pretty good for both lines. My argument is that Psychic has the higher potential payoff but is also the "safer" of the two lines, since it both reduces the odds of taking sleep with no compensation, and has the chance of the higher payoff. So if you are going to risk your sole sleeper in the t1 matchup against Gengar, it should be to use Psychic.
I think that if you are so afraid of losing your Jynx to explosion/sleep that you consider sleeping the Gengar to be so much better than dealing 50% to it that it overcomes the 13% of the really good outcomes, then you probably should just switch your Jynx t1. Like, in all of these lines there is that 56% chance of losing your sleeper straight out of the gate, so if that's an unacceptable risk to you, then neither LK or Psychic are good moves.
- 56% Jynx is asleep and it doesnt matter what you did
- 8% Psychic kills Gengar, so Psychic Jynx is definitely better
- 31% Gengar is either sleeping or it took 50% damage and failed to put Jynx to sleep
- 5% The LK Jynx gets put to sleep, or Gengar is at 50% and Jynx is awake
(note: its late so this maths is very back-of-the-envelope here)
Here we have 13% of the time Psychic is clearly better and 8% of those it is a _lot_ better. And then the remaining 31% of the time, the outcome is better for LK, but still clearly pretty good for both lines. My argument is that Psychic has the higher potential payoff but is also the "safer" of the two lines, since it both reduces the odds of taking sleep with no compensation, and has the chance of the higher payoff. So if you are going to risk your sole sleeper in the t1 matchup against Gengar, it should be to use Psychic.
I think that if you are so afraid of losing your Jynx to explosion/sleep that you consider sleeping the Gengar to be so much better than dealing 50% to it that it overcomes the 13% of the really good outcomes, then you probably should just switch your Jynx t1. Like, in all of these lines there is that 56% chance of losing your sleeper straight out of the gate, so if that's an unacceptable risk to you, then neither LK or Psychic are good moves.
Is it worth trying Electrode in OU? The only thing it holds over Jolt is Explosion, but Explosion is such a unique move that it singlehandedly makes it a distinct Pokemon over Jolt
i mean its not good but it is one of the mons of all time
try it if you want but it is basically a worse version of an already barely OU mon
electrode's biggest issue is that it lacks the movepool and stats that make jolteon a solid choice, it has nothing to threaten special walls with outside of explosion and rhydon exeggutor and even gengar don't fear thunderbolt or boom.
Basically every team has a million ways around and that's without mentioning the fact it struggles against mons it should be beating like the birds and lapras.
Basically every team has a million ways around and that's without mentioning the fact it struggles against mons it should be beating like the birds and lapras.
Hello to All!
Despite of thunder wave, what more can pass through substitute in gen 1?
Despite of thunder wave, what more can pass through substitute in gen 1?
[Gen 1] Stadium OU replay: am bot lol vs. Toxin Boost - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
Is this a emulator glitch or is this actual stadium behavior?
Is this a emulator glitch or is this actual stadium behavior?
I believe rollovers aren’t supposed to happen at all in Stadium. Rollovers on the sim were known about but I thought they had been fixed as of this post: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/stadium-bug-report-thread.3526616/page-3#post-9274140
Going to tag DaWoblefet to see if you know what’s going on
“Rollovers as a result of stats that would be over 1023 in the event of a stat drop do not occur. Boosting moves will also fail if you would go over 999 after the cap is given; thus, using moves like Swords Dance or Amnesia no longer move the stat stage up by one when they fail in these scenarios.”
Emulator is wrong, rip slowbro
If Discord's your thing, joining rby Discord is a good way to find matches
I actually submitted a pull request to fix this bug on the showdown github but IDK the process to get it accepted lmao
Hi!
I was playing pokémon Blue and notice both my Buterfree and my Beedrill reciving super effective of poison.
First, since when bug is weak to poison?
And if Beedrill is dual type poison, it shouldn't receive super efective of posion moves.
What happens?
I was playing pokémon Blue and notice both my Buterfree and my Beedrill reciving super effective of poison.
First, since when bug is weak to poison?
And if Beedrill is dual type poison, it shouldn't receive super efective of posion moves.
What happens?
bug is only weak to poison in RBY
beedrill isnt actually weak to poison but the message is only calculated in some order of type effectivenesses, the game sees that bug is weak to poison, so it says that beedrill is weakt o poison
But despite of the game show it is supper efective.
The damage calculation works as it is supper efective or not?