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Hi very sorry, excellent and accomplished coder livid washed has been hard at work making Gen 9 Doubles a thing(!) so this got bumped to a lower priority. As dubs is dropping very very soon there will be a lot of quick fixing etc. that needs to happen over the next week or two, but as soon as livid thinks dubs is stable enough this is his next priority
the bump reminded me that I wanted to say that gen 3 randbats baton pass is problematic but I cannot put into words exactly how right now since I've been busy
unown should just be removed from the pool, 95% of the time you're just using it as a sac, just never going to be strong enough as its a 1 moveslot mon
hazard set mons should always have spikes, getting skarm with a pure attacking set with no utility feels very bad
deoxys attack is probably one of the most broken mons in the format as an extremely consistent revenge killer that can even sweep from a revenge position easily, but as was said earlier the level adjustment thing is still doing its job so hopefully eventually it will be toned down to manageable levels but tweaking possible movepool could potentially work too.
I feel Life Orb shouldn’t be generated on Mold Breaker Rampardos or Rampardos should just always be Sheer Force if it has a move benefitting if it, is Mold Breaker any good?
I feel Life Orb shouldn’t be generated on Mold Breaker Rampardos or Rampardos should just always be Sheer Force if it has a move benefitting if it, is Mold Breaker any good?View attachment 526728
it has EQ which would allow it to hit levitate mons, which are fairly plentiful (especially gengar being a SE hit) causing people to think twice about switching in a levitate mon
also fire punch would be able to hit flash fire, hit thick fat mons for regular damage
ironically would be a negative against an unaware mon with superpower interactions, however if you had +attack for some reason it would benefit there
ignores multiscale for say, dragonite, being able to 1hko it with a rock move immediately
and a few other minor interactions i may be missing
edit: also allows it to crit mons that have shell armor
the bump reminded me that I wanted to say that gen 3 randbats baton pass is problematic but I cannot put into words exactly how right now since I've been busy
unown should just be removed from the pool, 95% of the time you're just using it as a sac, just never going to be strong enough as its a 1 moveslot mon
hazard set mons should always have spikes, getting skarm with a pure attacking set with no utility feels very bad
deoxys attack is probably one of the most broken mons in the format as an extremely consistent revenge killer that can even sweep from a revenge position easily, but as was said earlier the level adjustment thing is still doing its job so hopefully eventually it will be toned down to manageable levels but tweaking possible movepool could potentially work too.
Thanks for the response, baton pass has always been a hot topic in the world of adv, adv had many debates and ultimately ended up complex banning it, see: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...baton-pass-voting.3694807/page-2#post-9057309 , within adv randbats baton pass is not as problematic as it is in teambuilding structures where whole team structures were created to abuse the move. Ultimately baton pass in randbats is simply not broken enough to remove.
Within randbats we have a policy to give pokemon their optimal sets while also enabling variety, we also now have level balancing as stated to take care of any problems, for example deoxys-a which has always been notoriously strong, so we will wait that one out. Previously we had no access to winrates for older generations and we know first hand that guessing on balance can have negative outcomes. We also follow a principle on zarel's orders that we will not remove any pokemon from randbats such as unown and it won't be up for discussion.
On the topic of spikes, some pokemon have coding issues such as skarmory, in order for rest talk to work which in my opinion is one of its best sets, it requires hp ground to exist, which ends up causing less spikes and toxic. Now we could edit all the sets and the code itself to enable every mon that is able to use spikes to always have them (which is a decent amount of work!), with how strong they are and the very limited amount of removal within the format, do you think this creates a fun experience?
Personally I do not since you'll find that a lot of games are decided upon who ends up getting spikes. While spikes are no doubt very strong, the other sets available are also very functional and enable more variety and hopefully fun within the format.
it has EQ which would allow it to hit levitate mons, which are fairly plentiful (especially gengar being a SE hit) causing people to think twice about switching in a levitate mon
also fire punch would be able to hit flash fire, hit thick fat mons for regular damage
ironically would be a negative against an unaware mon with superpower interactions, however if you had +attack for some reason it would benefit there
ignores multiscale for say, dragonite, being able to 1hko it with a rock move immediately
and a few other minor interactions i may be missing
edit: also allows it to crit mons that have shell armor
Within randbats we have a policy to give pokemon their optimal sets while also enabling variety, we also now have level balancing as stated to take care of any problems, for example deoxys-a which has always been notoriously strong, so we will wait that one out. Previously we had no access to winrates for older generations and we know first hand that guessing on balance can have negative outcomes. We also follow a principle on zarel's orders that we will not remove any pokemon from randbats such as unown and it won't be up for discussion.
On the topic of spikes, some pokemon have coding issues such as skarmory, in order for rest talk to work which in my opinion is one of its best sets, it requires hp ground to exist, which ends up causing less spikes and toxic. Now we could edit all the sets and the code itself to enable every mon that is able to use spikes to always have them (which is a decent amount of work!), with how strong they are and the very limited amount of removal within the format, do you think this creates a fun experience?
Personally I do not since you'll find that a lot of games are decided upon who ends up getting spikes. While spikes are no doubt very strong, the other sets available are also very functional and enable more variety and hopefully fun within the format.
i would argue that spikes being strong would +winrate for spikes mons and make them less bulky over time, but point taken. there's arguments both ways and i just happen to be on the side of the way that isn't implemented :P
disappointing that a useless slot can appear due to arbitrary rule, hopefully someday it will be allowed to be removed, although i dont see unown being useful unless the overall levels of mons are dropped further down to let it consistently at least get value against things it hits neutrally. castform is (imo) the 2nd most useless mon in the format due to poor stats but i would say that is the sort of benchmark I see in "acceptable power level" for a weaker mon that can still be used effectively
where can I find statistics for randbats, perchance?
having ability variety is very helpful because if the mon is too 1 dimensional it makes it easier for opponent to play around you. blind EQ click is often a bad idea because of the possibility of a switch in to a flier/levitator but for a rock type with mold breaker it becomes a very good click
Proposing the (re?)addition of lum berry, as well as the addition of zen headbutt to virizion in gen7
currently, the only set virizion runs is SD with dual stab + stone edge and leftovers. Although stone edge is SE against 2/3 of the resists that arise from running cc + leaf blade (bug/flying), its low accuracy and pp leave much to be desired. Zen headbutt on the other hand, while weaker, is more accurate, has higher PP, and covers the other defiency in its dual stab coverage: poison.
+2 zen headbutt can pick up kills/2hkos on mons that would otherwise wall virizion, I've included perused the gen7 pool and compiled some relevant calcs below:
weezing:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 86 84 HP / 84 Def Weezing: 148-176 (58.7 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
venu-mega:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Venusaur-Mega: 152-180 (57.3 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
arbok:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 88 84 HP / 84 Def Arbok: 220-260 (88.3 - 104.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
nidoqueen/king:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 Def Nidoqueen: 194-230 (67.3 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Nidoking: 218-258 (81.6 - 96.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
vileplume:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 87 84 HP / 84 Def Vileplume: 192-226 (70.5 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
amoongus:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 Def Amoonguss: 226-268 (68.6 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
gengar:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Gengar: 260-306 (111.5 - 131.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
qwilfish:
+1 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 88 84 HP / 84 Def Qwilfish: 142-168 (55 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Leaf Blade vs. Lvl 88 84 HP / 84 Def Qwilfish: 118-141 (45.7 - 54.6%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
heracross-mega:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 83 84 HP / 84 Def Heracross-Mega: 158-188 (58.9 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
swalot:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 88 84 HP / 84 Def Swalot: 192-228 (60.1 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
roserade:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 Def Roserade: 240-284 (100.8 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
toxicroak:
Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 Def Toxicroak: 244-288 (88 - 103.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
arceus-poison (and by token, silvally-poison):
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 74 84 HP / 84 Def Arceus-Poison: 170-202 (56.6 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
dragalge:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def Dragalge: 188-222 (75.5 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
buzzwole:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 80 84 HP / 84 Def Buzzwole: 142-168 (47 - 55.6%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO
marshadow:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 71 84 HP / 84 Def Marshadow: 244-288 (99.5 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Leaf Blade vs. Lvl 71 84 HP / 84 Def Marshadow: 205-243 (83.6 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
naganadel:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 76 84 HP / 84 Def Naganadel: 244-288 (103.3 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(note that naga outspeeds by one, but will only kill with sludge wave if it has a boost - lo needs +2 and specs needs +1
While losing having zen headbutt > stone edge loses the ability to deal with some bugs/flying, I feel that the advantage of rolling zen is still worth its inclusion in set generation, even if it isnt at an equal rate to edge (one may also consider the option of not requiring dual stab, or potentially including a choice band set, although personally I haven't given either these much thought in terms of their usefulness or ability to be coded).
As for the addition of lum berry, I think its logical to include that as an item given that virizion is only running an sd sweeper set (rip the old cm z fight set). Since one of the main way that the above walls deal with virizion is burn/twave, having the ability to get those 2hko without being crippled in the process (e.g., weezing can be 2hko after an SD without fear of being wisped, vileplume cannot rely on sludge poison or effect spore) would prove useful.
anyways i just wrote all of this and found out theres an upcoming gen7 overhaul so hopefully this can be included! ty for reading :)
Proposing the (re?)addition of lum berry, as well as the addition of zen headbutt to virizion in gen7
currently, the only set virizion runs is SD with dual stab + stone edge and leftovers. Although stone edge is SE against 2/3 of the resists that arise from running cc + leaf blade (bug/flying), its low accuracy and pp leave much to be desired. Zen headbutt on the other hand, while weaker, is more accurate, has higher PP, and covers the other defiency in its dual stab coverage: poison.
+2 zen headbutt can pick up kills/2hkos on mons that would otherwise wall virizion, I've included perused the gen7 pool and compiled some relevant calcs below:
weezing:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 86 84 HP / 84 Def Weezing: 148-176 (58.7 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
venu-mega:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Venusaur-Mega: 152-180 (57.3 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
arbok:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 88 84 HP / 84 Def Arbok: 220-260 (88.3 - 104.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
nidoqueen/king:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 Def Nidoqueen: 194-230 (67.3 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Nidoking: 218-258 (81.6 - 96.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
vileplume:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 87 84 HP / 84 Def Vileplume: 192-226 (70.5 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
amoongus:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 Def Amoonguss: 226-268 (68.6 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
gengar:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Gengar: 260-306 (111.5 - 131.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
qwilfish:
+1 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 88 84 HP / 84 Def Qwilfish: 142-168 (55 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Leaf Blade vs. Lvl 88 84 HP / 84 Def Qwilfish: 118-141 (45.7 - 54.6%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
heracross-mega:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 83 84 HP / 84 Def Heracross-Mega: 158-188 (58.9 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
swalot:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 88 84 HP / 84 Def Swalot: 192-228 (60.1 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
roserade:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 Def Roserade: 240-284 (100.8 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
toxicroak:
Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 Def Toxicroak: 244-288 (88 - 103.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
arceus-poison (and by token, silvally-poison):
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 74 84 HP / 84 Def Arceus-Poison: 170-202 (56.6 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
dragalge:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def Dragalge: 188-222 (75.5 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
buzzwole:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 80 84 HP / 84 Def Buzzwole: 142-168 (47 - 55.6%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO
marshadow:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 71 84 HP / 84 Def Marshadow: 244-288 (99.5 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Leaf Blade vs. Lvl 71 84 HP / 84 Def Marshadow: 205-243 (83.6 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
naganadel:
+2 Lvl 83 84 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. Lvl 76 84 HP / 84 Def Naganadel: 244-288 (103.3 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(note that naga outspeeds by one, but will only kill with sludge wave if it has a boost - lo needs +2 and specs needs +1
While losing having zen headbutt > stone edge loses the ability to deal with some bugs/flying, I feel that the advantage of rolling zen is still worth its inclusion in set generation, even if it isnt at an equal rate to edge (one may also consider the option of not requiring dual stab, or potentially including a choice band set, although personally I haven't given either these much thought in terms of their usefulness or ability to be coded).
As for the addition of lum berry, I think its logical to include that as an item given that virizion is only running an sd sweeper set (rip the old cm z fight set). Since one of the main way that the above walls deal with virizion is burn/twave, having the ability to get those 2hko without being crippled in the process (e.g., weezing can be 2hko after an SD without fear of being wisped, vileplume cannot rely on sludge poison or effect spore) would prove useful.
anyways i just wrote all of this and found out theres an upcoming gen7 overhaul so hopefully this can be included! ty for reading :)
it was determined that rock coverage was more important than the ability to hit poison super-effectively, nor would a choice banded virizion be desirable. however, virizion wont be running solely SD with the upcoming update. the overhaul you mentioned will "modernize" gen 7 by adding in a roles system, much like gen 9. with the technical limitations of the old system gone, we can bring back the cm virizion set without a jank AV set existing.
why does Togedemaru run Lighting Rod in Sword and Shield? It doesn't use any special move and resist Electric. On the other hand Iron Barbs would be more consistent. E: I see, are there really that many Volt Switch users?
why does Togedemaru run Lighting Rod in Sword and Shield? It doesn't use any special move and resist Electric. On the other hand Iron Barbs would be more consistent.
can gen 4 raikou always be made shiny? it's not legal for non-shiny raikou to have aura sphere so either you make aura sphere raikou be shiny and reveal the set or make raikou always shiny to hide the set.
can gen 4 raikou always be made shiny? it's not legal for non-shiny raikou to have aura sphere so either you make aura sphere raikou be shiny and reveal the set or make raikou always shiny to hide the set.
Per our development principles, we ignore intricacies of move legality such as shiny/nature requirements and egg move I compatibilities in Random Battles. We have always done so.
once again asking (this time formally) to remove mono ice mglalie from being a potentially generated set in gen7. I dont see any justification as to why you would need such a set, especially since other moves (spikes/eq/taunt/toxic) would provide more general utility
once again asking (this time formally) to remove mono ice mglalie from being a potentially generated set in gen7. I dont see any justification as to why you would need such a set, especially since other moves (spikes/eq/taunt/toxic) would provide more general utility
once again asking (this time formally) to remove mono ice mglalie from being a potentially generated set in gen7. I dont see any justification as to why you would need such a set, especially since other moves (spikes/eq/taunt/toxic) would provide more general utility
Random Battles don't comply to move incompatibilities, so as long as a mon has a move it can be generated on a set no matter what.. The set generation would be way too complicated if this wasn't the case.
Proposing the Setup Sweeper set for gen7 Tornadus change abilities from prankster to defiant. Since tornadus is already high speed, I don’t think it really needs prankster for bulk up or taunt, and I think defiant can have much more viability.
Proposing the Setup Sweeper set for gen7 Tornadus change abilities from prankster to defiant. Since tornadus is already high speed, I don’t think it really needs prankster for bulk up or taunt, and I think defiant can have much more viability.
Is there a reason why gen 8 Volcarona doesn't get Fiery Dance in its move pool? It can have Fiery Dance in both of its sets in gen 9.
Fiery Dance, while having less power than Fire Blast, is also much more accurate and has a 50/50 chance to raise SpA so I feel like the SpA boosts and much higher accuracy would be a fair tradeoff for less power.
Is there a reason why gen 8 Volcarona doesn't get Fiery Dance in its move pool? It can have Fiery Dance in both of its sets in gen 9.
Fiery Dance, while having less power than Fire Blast, is also much more accurate and has a 50/50 chance to raise SpA so I feel like the SpA boosts and much higher accuracy would be a fair tradeoff for less power.
): https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4randombattle-2012244009
