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np: UU - Rain Drops Keep Falling on my Head
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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I absolutely agree. UU is the "fun" tier where you can try whatever the hell you want and do well, like PK said. Also, I've been using stall and I don't even play stall- I've 5 and 6-0ed so many people it's not even funny. I think this metagame has given it's easiest time. Stall= easy wins imo. On the note of heracross in UU; I agree with heysup, I think people are going to be let down. For one, it's going to be like "holy shit, it's heracross...ahhhhhh!", but then the hype will die and everyone will realize how to play against it and something "more powerful" will come to light because it handles it so well or some bs like that. I think it deserves a full test, I for one like playing with new pokemon, it makes the game "fun". Unless those new pokes are cresselia -.-
I agree with this. It doesn't really matter how broken Heracross will or won't be, but one of the things that makes UU an interesting metagame, is the fact that its always changing and never gets boring really. I think we can all manage one month with Heracross. Especially since, seen with all the debate, we don't really know how Heracross will fare in the metagame, and the only way to see that is to give it full test. That doesn't even matter though, since it looks that Heracross isn't going to drop. (I think that's been mentioned like eight times)
Adamant Choice Scarf max Attack Heracross vs. 0/0 Moltres with Close Combat: 35.5% - 42.1%. Moltres also has a 4x weakness to Rock, which means if it switches into Stealth Rock it's dead since it's outsped. I draw no conclusions on Heracross though since I've not used it, although I do think it like every other Pokemon should be tested and only booted if it proves to be overpowering.
Otherwise agree that base 85 speed is pretty slow; in fact I think Moltres's base 90 speed is still quite slow. But that's only my opinion.
PS:
What a signature ...
although I am primarily an offense player, I find good stall vs stall matches much more exciting than seeing two offensive teams hammering away at each other and trading kills. the strategy required to win high-quality defensive battles is a lot more intriguing than the relatively straightforward win-maximizing calculations that most offensive players perform (not to devalue these but I just don't find them as thought-provoking). I make the distinction of "good" stall vs stall, because if the two players aren't top-notch then you can usually tell when they miss opportunities or make questionable moves (even if they are "better" than you), which makes the matches a lot less interesting to watch.
my point isn't "you're wrong; stall is better", it's just that style preferences are all relative -- some people like when pokemon get fast kills and some people like when there's more maneuvering involved. I don't feel it's very productive when the warrant to an argument is "this style of play sucks because I don't like it". note that I definitely agree that super long ladder matches can get annoying quickly... but we don't tier based on what makes us happy when we slam away at the find tab!
on a sort of related note I think just because there is so much controversy over whether Heracross deserves a test or not, it should be tested. a framework for a quick boot would definitely make sense though given how similar Heracross is to Gallade (not saying they are the same, just that they are pretty close).
in other news, a reminder to everyone that today is the deadline for uu paragraphs... sent mine in a few hours ago and I ended up surprisingly borderline on a Pokemon I didn't think I would have any doubts about at all :x.
my point isn't "you're wrong; stall is better", it's just that style preferences are all relative -- some people like when pokemon get fast kills and some people like when there's more maneuvering involved. I don't feel it's very productive when the warrant to an argument is "this style of play sucks because I don't like it". note that I definitely agree that super long ladder matches can get annoying quickly... but we don't tier based on what makes us happy when we slam away at the find tab!
on a sort of related note I think just because there is so much controversy over whether Heracross deserves a test or not, it should be tested. a framework for a quick boot would definitely make sense though given how similar Heracross is to Gallade (not saying they are the same, just that they are pretty close).
in other news, a reminder to everyone that today is the deadline for uu paragraphs... sent mine in a few hours ago and I ended up surprisingly borderline on a Pokemon I didn't think I would have any doubts about at all :x.
Banedon has mentioned Moltres, Moltres only revenges.
Slowbro: On the switch CC does 18% - 21.3%. If Slowbro is your only safe switch into to Heracross next time you won't be happy when you see a Megahorn that does 72.1% - 85.3% Asumming you are lucky and get minimum damage you might be able to live on the second switch in...oh wait Heracross outspeeds.
Uxie: Similar scenario as Slowbro. Close Combat on the switch deals 17.8% - 20.9%. Megahorn then deals 71.2% - 83.6% which means Uxie can't do much.
Mesprit: Against the supporting attacker set which seems to have the bulkiest EV spread Close Combat does 27.5% - 32.4% , as well as ohko with Megahorn always.
The same scenario follows for all the rest. I'm not saying that the Pokemon you listed aren't safe switch in's to Heracross's Close Combat (for the most part, moltres isn't all that reliable.), but that Heracross can effecitively deal with one or more of these counters alone, but it's even easier with stealth rock support. The Dual-Stab combanation of Fighting + Bug makes the only 100% reliable switch in to Heracross, Ghosts types. That is only speaking for the scarf set as well. Imagine if someone switches an Uxie into a Close Combat and finds themselves facing a Megahorn the next turn. This means teams need to be prepared to face the versatality of Heracross in this tier.
It may just be my opinion, but if someone is going to have to run multiple mons to take make sure Heracross isn't a threat than that, to me, is over centralizing and a sure sign of a Pokemon being broken. By no means am I against testing, I want to see how it actually fares in the metagame instead of making assumptions, I am just expressing my opinion that it is going to be broken from what I see right now.
EDIT: I say 100% reliable because they have no chance of getting screwed on bad predic.
Er not really, Flying and Poison resist both Fighting + Bug and Crobat is even quad resistant to both STABs. Although of course Heracross gets other coverage moves ...Yondie said:
You can also play around the Scarf set as always. Send in Uxie on the Close Combat. Next time round he smartens up and uses Megahorn, that's when you send in Moltres. Except it's dangerous of course, if you mispredict / your opponent outpredicts you then you lose a Pokemon.
Nonetheless as before I say that I draw no conclusions on Heracross since I've not used it, although I do think it like every other Pokemon should be tested and only booted if it proves to be overpowering.
I CANT WAIT TO USE AERIAL ACE AMBIPOM
I am quoting this just to remind you guys that Hera does not look like it is coming down anytime soon.
lol i'm pretty sure no one is gonna leave their heracross in against Aimbipom...Fake out+return already gets you the KO against heracross
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