Resource National Dex Viability Rankings

[about15guys]

Fair
However, I never said Clefable was bad, Enamorus is bad and it is. I said it shouldn't be in B+ with mons like zapdos, rotom, scizor, mega diance, who all require far less support to run. The power creep overwhelms it. Which means much support is required to utilize it well. It has a niche vs fat teams which pack Garg, Ferro, and other passives, but vs the majority of offense teams this mon will get overwhelmed and ran down without the support of several other Pokémon, rendering it niche.

Heres an example that shows you what I mean.

+1 252 Atk Dragapult Never-Ending Nightmare (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 411-484 (104.3 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO.

on top of that

0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragapult: 248-294 (78.2 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Attempting to bait Z move is easily countered by sub and can put you even further behind. Though after Z she becomes a reliable check these aren't mind games you want to play.

This mon has zero bulk, many of the tiers most common threats trade out advantageously like this with clef. Tusks for another example 2hkos 88 percent of the time while only being ohkod 25 percent of the time. The powercreep is just too much for her, imo. Though upon further review I am swaying toward B-. She does do well into valiant and blanket checks things on defensive lando's power level.

saying clef has 0 bulk is certainly an opinion, while on paper its stats looks kind of underwhelming lefties + hazard/tox/sand immunity make it deceptively bulky, and it has loads of utility w/ knock off, rocks or twave, which makes it very hard to switch into. also being a defensive pokemon that can beat garg without seriously weakening itself by losing its item is definitely grounds to be usable. claiming clef should be dropped because its in the same tier as good pokemon like zap is more grounds to raise zap imo

Usage does reflect upon viability, while not being a end all be all. YOU asked for stats, and yet wont provide any yourself. Enamorus sucks, it isnt controversial. I am trying to be cocky, its all opinions here, I literally play this tier like 3-4 hours a day that is all I meant by experienced. The tier leaders manage alot of things and oversights do happen. Stop being rude and twisting my words around and I will tone down "my cocky little attitude" okay?

usage =/= viability, moyashi makes a really good point when they mentioned how nd ladder has a habit of spamming really middling pokemon and artificially jacking up usage stats. corviknight as a whole has little to no utility and yet gets much more usage than tournament staples like gliscor or ferrothorn, while great pokemon like hippo or mmedi dont even get enough usage to be considered ou. claiming that usage isnt the end-all-be-all for the viability of a pokemon in the same post where you mentioned how clef is a bad pokemon because 2 of the strongest physical threats and also claiming tusk can 2hko clef is wild because w/ lefties its getting comfortably 3hkod

252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 174-205 (44.1 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 87-102 (22 - 25.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
(moonblast is a roll to ohko from full, and if tusk clicks headlong its dying always)
+1 252 Atk Dragapult Never-Ending Nightmare (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 355-418 (90.1 - 106%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
me when the pokemon that's getting suspected for its incredibly strong offensive presence has a strong offensive presence

like yeah it has its weaknesses but that's why its in b+ tier and not a, the whole point of b tier is pokemon with good traits but also cant do everything on their own or are harder to slot

 

[about15guys]

Agreed with basically everything you said.
I do want to point out though that enamorous has a niche in being a fast healing wish mon which can be nice in a few situations. Though again I do agree it should be in C tier

Anyways idk if it's just me but....
from B- to B/B+
This mon is actually dumb. Not only does it have a positive mu against the top ghosts, it also is really good at phasing. It's so bulky that most of the time it's going to get at least 2-3 hazards up and if it lives long enough(which it will), it can become annoying by phasing everything and getting chip damage. It also isn't passive unlike what everyone else would tell you. It can still deal good damage with eq and threaten
I've gotten to 1880 with it and even won an ssnl game with it. It helped keep hazards on the field and be annoying.

(I was about to post my ssnl replay here to show how much work it did but I forgot to save it so just trust me on this one)

Anyways that's all and have a wonderful day!

I feel like b+ is kinda pushing it, although its certianly a great pokemon vs all these offense teams running around rn, its massive longlevity issues make it really exploitable especially in longer matches vs balance or fat teams, often making it a liability to have as a slot. it's definitely got some uses but idt enough to warrant raising more than a tier

also just wanted to talk about rq
imo this pokemon is really sleeper right now, kingambit was the main thing holding it back but now its gone it's great defensive profile is very good to have on a team and provides loads of utility. it's the single freest ival switchin, as it takes like 20% max from any non-psyshock move, especially with AV but boots fsight + chilly can set up deadly fsight combos w/ mlop or other fighting types as well as being a nice anti-weather tech for rain sun and the like

 

[vesp]

feel like b+ is kinda pushing it

Yeah I don't think it's as good as clef or Mdiance, but I do think it's a very useful hazard setter/phaser who can help certain teams out immensely. IMHO I think it's B tier

 

[Xoliduz]

saying clef has 0 bulk is certainly an opinion, while on paper its stats looks kind of underwhelming lefties + hazard/tox/sand immunity make it deceptively bulky, and it has loads of utility w/ knock off, rocks or twave, which makes it very hard to switch into. also being a defensive pokemon that can beat garg without seriously weakening itself by losing its item is definitely grounds to be usable. claiming clef should be dropped because its in the same tier as good pokemon like zap is more grounds to raise zap imo


usage =/= viability, moyashi makes a really good point when they mentioned how nd ladder has a habit of spamming really middling pokemon and artificially jacking up usage stats. corviknight as a whole has little to no utility and yet gets much more usage than tournament staples like gliscor or ferrothorn, while great pokemon like hippo or mmedi dont even get enough usage to be considered ou. claiming that usage isnt the end-all-be-all for the viability of a pokemon in the same post where you mentioned how clef is a bad pokemon because 2 of the strongest physical threats and also claiming tusk can 2hko clef is wild because w/ lefties its getting comfortably 3hkod

252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 174-205 (44.1 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 87-102 (22 - 25.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
(moonblast is a roll to ohko from full, and if tusk clicks headlong its dying always)
+1 252 Atk Dragapult Never-Ending Nightmare (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 355-418 (90.1 - 106%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
me when the pokemon that's getting suspected for its incredibly strong offensive presence has a strong offensive presence

like yeah it has its weaknesses but that's why its in b+ tier and not a, the whole point of b tier is pokemon with good traits but also cant do everything on their own or are harder to slot

Pult has zero bulk dude, thats why the moonblast calc follows that sentence. Apologies if that was not clear. I like raising zapdos. In my research I have come around quiet a bit on clefable, with zapdos off the table its near equal to all the mons in B+, even if not as splashable as some.

Oh and redo your calculations. Clefable runs 200 defense. Not 252, you lose the ability to check specs pult with max, and still are able to check lopunny with 200. Rocky helmet does use 252 defense but doesn't get the recovery from Leftovers and still gets 2hkod by headlong rush. HOWEVER I did forget about the SpD drop preventing tusks from 1v1ing, my bad. It was only meant to serve as an example of the power creep limiting her anyway. Forces extra support from the likes of other passive. Which you've eluded too is common in B tier, Rotom and zapdos are the exceptions to this extra support, and I think B+ is good for rotom so I'm on board with raising zapdos over lowering clef.

Back to enam, blaming ladder for being bad is an over used excuse, the mon is not good. Again i must emphasize I see no reason to ever use enamorus it only serves as a detriment. One guy so far pointed out it has healing wish other then that there is no situation where a Valiant, lele, diance or a non fairy will not serve you better in our tier. It's weakness to stealth rock, and ability to be scouted pivoted around due to a lack of raw power leaves scarf as nothing more then a healing wish user. CM only attempts to solve the issues Valiant, lele, and diance do not have. Forced to run boots due to SR weakness and lacking immediate power of the mentioned 3 mons.

It's speed tier is also irrelevant. Reaching a pointless 342 at max and a nearly useless 514 with scarf. It's as if GF trolled this poor mon. It has no decent flying stab and even if it did it does not work well with its fairy stab. It has no useful ability, its only able to fit on webs and is still outclassed even there. The list of reasons to not use enamorus is very long. I view it as completely nicheless. If it must be ranked its only because it's too powerful for UU, which I have no idea if it is or is not, i do not know the tier well, but it's very bad in ou.

 

[Larrycharizard1]

Pult has zero bulk dude, thats why the moonblast calc follows that sentence. Apologies if that was not clear. Like I raising zapdos. In my research I have come around quiet a bit on clefable, with zapdos off the table its near equal to all the mons in B+, even if not as splashable as some.

Oh and redo your calculations. Clefable runs 200 defense. Not 252, you lose the ability to check specs pult with max, and still are able to check lopunny with 200. Rocky helmet does use 252 defense but doesn't get the recovery from Leftovers and still gets 2hkod by headlong rush. HOWEVER I did forget about the SpD drop preventing tusks from 1v1ing, my bad. It was only meant to serve as an example of the power creep limiting her anyway. Forces extra support from the likes of other passive. Which you've eluded too is common in B tier, Rotom and zapdos are the exceptions to this extra support, and I think B+ is good for rotom so I'm on board with raising zapdos over lowering clef.

Back to enam, blaming ladder for being bad is an over used excuse, the mon is not good. Again i must emphasize I see no reason to ever use enamorus it only serves as a detriment. One guy so far pointed out it has healing wish other then that there is no situation where a Valiant, lele, diance or a non fairy will not serve you better in our tier. It's weakness to stealth rock, and ability to be scouted pivoted around due to a lack of raw power leaves scarf as nothing more then a healing wish user. CM only attempts to solve the issues Valiant, lele, and diance do not have. Forced to run boots due to SR weakness and lacking immediate power of the mentioned 3 mons.

It's speed tier is also irrelevant. Reaching a pointless 342 at max and a nearly useless 514 with scarf. It's as if GF trolled this poor mon. It has no decent flying stab and even if it did it does not work well with its fairy stab. It has no useful ability, its only able to fit on webs and is still outclassed even there. The list of reasons to not use enamorus is very long. I view it as completely nicheless. If it must be ranked its only because it's too powerful for UU, which I have no idea if it is or is not, i do not know the tier well, but it's very bad in ou.

Yeah tbh, when I used enamorus a few times it would literally just become setup fodder to that volc which would then obliterate my entire team.
enamorus isnt too horrible tho, specs is a great wallbreaker and I do love its contrary set. if it fell off entirely that wouldnt really make sense. also, one advantage over valiant it has is that it can KO ghold.
on another note tho I dont think clef is GREAT but I rly dont think its bad either. its great utility, immunity to hazards, and decent stab let it set a niche.
I can see dropping it to B but any lower really wound not make much sense.

 

[Xoliduz]

Yeah tbh, when I used enamorus a few times it would literally just become setup fodder to that volc which would then obliterate my entire team.
enamorus isnt too horrible tho, specs is a great wallbreaker and I do love its contrary set. if it fell off entirely that wouldnt really make sense. also, one advantage over valiant it has is that it can KO ghold.
on another note tho I dont think clef is GREAT but I rly dont think its bad either. its great utility, immunity to hazards, and decent stab let it set a niche.
I can see dropping it to B but any lower really wound not make much sense.

Thanks for the input, any experience with Enamorus is valued. Valiant can kill Gholdengo with multiple sets however, SD knock and CM shadowball, tera electric as well during terrain 2hko i believe.

I've come on board with Clefable being B tier, about15guys made a some great points about the method of which I was addressing its viability. Comparing it to pokemon who perhaps should be risen instead of Clefable dropping, namely zapdos. Though i still feel awkward about it being in Tier with Cham and Zor, it is not obscene by any means.

Zapdos B+ ---> A-

This makes sense to me but looking at A tier closely perhaps not, worth a conversation though.

 

[Larrycharizard1]

Zapdos B+ ---> A-

This makes sense to me but looking at A tier closely perhaps not, worth a conversation though.

YES! I agree with this by 100%. maybe even higher imo.
Why? well let me first of all list all the mons it can reliably switch into.
Kartana, non-toxic lando, rillaboom, zamazenta (unless it reads and used stone edge ig) pinsir, mega lopunny, great tusk (if zapdos is defensive for the last 2)
not to mention that half the metagame uses u-turn, and then, oh no, zapdos just paraed u and took 5% damage from it.
to add to it, it can take a hit from a +2 sneasler and ko it back
+2 252+ Atk Sneasler Dire Claw vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos: 259-306 (67.6 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Zapdos Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sneasler: 344-408 (114.2 - 135.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
ofc, if the sneasler has a spdef boost it could be difficult to KO. (aaaand cane can miss lmao) but theres also the chance of being paraed, which in such a fast-paced meta its possibly the best condition to spread, besides sleep, (and the lucky freeze xD)
Zapdos isnt passive either, 110 bp stabs from a 125 special attack is definetly not horrible, and it can even beat mons like ferro or scizor.
I'm not saying its perfect. but in most cases, even if an attack KOES it, it can still have use if it paralises said pokemon.
its overall just great. I don't understand why its ranked so low, I might even argue its better than tornadus, as zapdos has roost and much more bulk than it, imo torns only advantage is speed (and regenerator, but imo roost > regenerator) which is average in this meta.
however I could be wrong. If someone disagrees, please reply to the post!
ty have a nice day

 

[Xoliduz]

Lets discuss HSam

Currently I believe the meta is lowkey being dominated largely by this mon who is largely misunderstood and underestimated. Everyone knows its main draw is its signature move ceaseless edge, a dark type attack which sets a layer of spikes. What I feel is misunderstood and underestimated is the sheer number of effective sets this Pokémon can run, and also how high skill cap is when using Hsam, very rewarding to correct decision making and punishing when making mistakes. This is the main purpose of this post, lets get into it by first talking about the most common sets.


Lead (trashrott)
Samurott-Hisui @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sharpness
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Ghost
Jolly Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Razor Shell
- Knock Off/Taunt/Sacred Sword
- Aqua Jet

This is I feel its weakest set, in use I think you will find a small percentage of match ups where this is effective, things like Mega Lopunny shut you down completely, and Pokémon like Lando and Tusks force you to click water moves and not Edge. Even when you do get a match up where he can be effective edge has a 90 percent chance to miss which is really not something you want on a lead your sacrificing.

This set is C imo no real reason to use this.

Choice Band (Bandrott)
Samurott-Hisui @ Choice Band
Ability: Sharpness
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Dark
Jolly Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Razor Shell
- Sacred Sword
- Sucker Punch

People like band for its simplicity, boasting 519 attack on a 95 BP move that stacks spikes puts an immense amount of pressure on an opposing team making it even harder to remove hazards via defog, especially after tera. Lets get right into calcs for this set. This one will be long lol.

252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos: 208-246 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 248 HP / 148 Def Moltres: 214-253 (55.8 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 189-223 (53.6 - 63.3%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal

Pokémon that will force tera dark or have best match ups

Landorus
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Tera Dark Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Landorus-Therian: 158-188 (41.3 - 49.2%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Skarmory
252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Tera Dark Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 248 HP / 164+ Def Skarmory: 184-218 (55.2 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mandibuzz
No need to calc here, this thing smokes you, you have to run or predict it coming in and click water move.

Great Tusks
Generally you will click edge into him anyway because you'll have ghost blockers but if not run or predict and click water move similar to Mandi.

End Game with band
Tera Dark will also give you access to powerful priority in sucker punch, while band sucker has its limitations it will still be useful

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Samurott-Hisui Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 176-208 (67.9 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
While this humble calc seems to miss the ko at first glance consider you most likely have hazards up which will hard stop kart, and other locked or all out attacking Pokémon

Overall take on Band
I would say this set is solid A- due some inherent weaknesses. First being Hsam is not the easiest pokemon to get into play, sharing much the same weaknesses as Hoopa, having a massive impact when in play, but being difficult to position. A second weakness would be the 90 percent chance to miss on edge. When attempting to 2hko a defogger the entire game can be blown out be a edge miss. This is where the high skill of Hsam first appears. You need to make the decision to risk it, or block with your gholdengo. This decision largely depends on your teams ability to get Hsam in again, and how many layers of spikes you need to win.

To further expand on the mons high skill cap you also need to manage how much damage your Hsam is dealing, dont tera if your going to get an ohko that could be a 2hko. More hits mean more spikes, so there is quiet a bit of nuance, planning, and decision making involved even with a band set. This skill cap only increases as the sets go on.

Assault Vest (Fatrott)
Samurott-Hisui @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
- Razor Shell
- Ceaseless Edge
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch

Created by Lulu as far as I know, what seperates this set from the others is the arch types it fits onto, and its ability to consistently set hazards during the midgame. This mon fits in with offensive builds that sport pivots such as defensive lando rather then aggressive offensive teams that focus on momentum.

I have a lack of experience here and believe the set to unoptimized but during my limited testing with lulus team I was suprised at how consistently this set was effective. Tera steel will really allows this mon to set full stack quiet often. It really speaks to the overall level of this mon, knock off is surprisingly useful as you’ll often reach full stack and want to click a more consistent move with additional utility. Again note this mon is extremely skill reliant. The better the player the more effective this set will be.

Any contribution to optimizing the set or added experience with the mon (talking to you lulu) would be valued. I would rate this as B- as its more niche to the team it would be placed onto, however it is effective when used correctly.

Choice Scarf (ScarfRott)
Samurott-Hisui @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sharpness
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Water
Jolly Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Razor Shell
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword

Not a ton to say here, 436 speed makes it a slower speed control but with a immense utility with edge and knock, it will consistently set spikes, provides breaking potential in razor shell/tera water for late game, and excellent coverage due to to typing and sacred sword, which also has utility in ignoring boosts from Pokémon like ID Garg.

B- imo, anyone with more experience with this set, contribution would be greatly valued.

Now for the bread and butter

Swords Dance (BrokenRott)
Samurott-Hisui @ Black Glasses
Ability: Sharpness
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Dark
Adament Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Cutter
- Ceaseless Edge
- Sucker Punch

This set is different from the others, turning Hsam from a simple hazard setter into a wincon/wallbreaker that sets hazards. The skill cap on this set is through the roof, The decision making is critical, choosing whether to click edge once and pivot out, or to SD, when to tera, knowing what hits he can survive to set up, capitalizing on your opponents respect and attempts at counter play, the list goes on . Once set up at plus 2 with tera this things a true demon. Things that outspeed it often die to sucker punch even when resisted, things that are slower get edged. Aqua cutter is exclusively to provide a move that doesn't miss, and doesn't make contact (only god knows why this doesn't make contact), to avoid peoples attempts at outplaying you with helmet.

The biggest mistake your oppenent can make is switching in a threat that cannot ohko Hsam after and SD, like a ferrothorn. You just tera and SD again and the game is basically over, this things match up into rain is absolutely brutal.

This Balance between being able to be a hazard setter, being a wallbreaker, and a wincon separates this set from the others, as time goes on this will only be enforced by the respect of the Pokémon's versatility, due to this imo this set is S-.

Other sets
I have seen many good sets, including the standard ones which I only covered scarf here. Sets ranging from sets with boots to water Z, if you have any you have used these sets and find them effective, please add in.

Sidenotes

Razorshell/Aqua Cutter

I find you want Razor shell on sets that lack immediate power like AV/Scarf and sets without SD. its a very powerful move and can break through targets via defense drops. However, on sets that due have immediate power Hsam benefits from consistency as you rarely click the water move. Aqua cutter most importantly doesnt make contact but also lands 100 percent of the time, has the increased crit chance to pseudo make up for Razor shells powerful 50 percent drop. Both moves are very viable, and just wanted to note the different uses.

Sets with Aqua Jet

I am finding aqua jet sets to be better then expected though I find it hard to place, any experience and contribution regarding the merits of Jet would be appreciated.

Conclusions
I'd like to nominate this Pokémon for a humble increase into A+ where I think it will stay depending on the long term results of Gholdengo's presence in meta (S- with Gholdengo imo, though this is quiet debatable on who is enabling who). This increase to A+ is largely based on its versatility allowing it to be consistent and effective across many builds.

Thanks for reading, and good luck

Most Recent Hsam Build
HFGL

​

 

[Larrycharizard1]

Lets discuss HSam

Currently I believe the meta is lowkey being dominated largely by this mon who is largely misunderstood and underestimated. Everyone knows its main draw is its signature move ceaseless edge, a dark type attack which sets a layer of spikes. What I feel is misunderstood and underestimated is the sheer number of effective sets this Pokémon can run, and also how high skill cap is when using Hsam, very rewarding to correct decision making and punishing when making mistakes. This is the main purpose of this post, lets get into it by first talking about the most common sets.


Lead (trashrott)
Samurott-Hisui @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sharpness
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Ghost
Jolly Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Razor Shell
- Knock Off/Taunt/Sacred Sword
- Aqua Jet

This is I feel its weakest set, in use I think you will find a small percentage of match ups where this is effective, things like Mega Lopunny shut you down completely, and Pokémon like Lando and Tusks force you to click water moves and not Edge. Even when you do get a match up where he can be effective edge has a 90 percent chance to miss which is really not something you want on a lead your sacrificing.

This set is C imo no real reason to use this.

Choice Band (Bandrott)
Samurott-Hisui @ Choice Band
Ability: Sharpness
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Dark
Jolly Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Razor Shell
- Sacred Sword
- Sucker Punch

People like band for its simplicity, boasting 519 attack on a 95 BP move that stacks spikes puts an immense amount of pressure on an opposing team making it even harder to remove hazards via defog, especially after tera. Lets get right into calcs for this set. This one will be long lol.

252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos: 208-246 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 248 HP / 148 Def Moltres: 214-253 (55.8 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 189-223 (53.6 - 63.3%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal

Pokémon that will force tera dark or have best match ups

Landorus
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Tera Dark Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Landorus-Therian: 158-188 (41.3 - 49.2%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Skarmory
252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Tera Dark Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 248 HP / 164+ Def Skarmory: 184-218 (55.2 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mandibuzz
No need to calc here, this thing smokes you, you have to run or predict it coming in and click water move.

Great Tusks
Generally you will click edge into him anyway because you'll have ghost blockers but if not run or predict and click water move similar to Mandi.

End Game with band
Tera Dark will also give you access to powerful priority in sucker punch, while band sucker has its limitations it will still be useful

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Samurott-Hisui Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 176-208 (67.9 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
While this humble calc seems to miss the ko at first glance consider you most likely have hazards up which will hard stop kart, and other locked or all out attacking Pokémon

Overall take on Band
I would say this set is solid A- due some inherent weaknesses. First being Hsam is not the easiest pokemon to get into play, sharing much the same weaknesses as Hoopa, having a massive impact when in play, but being difficult to position. A second weakness would be the 90 percent chance to miss on edge. When attempting to 2hko a defogger the entire game can be blown out be a edge miss. This is where the high skill of Hsam first appears. You need to make the decision to risk it, or block with your gholdengo. This decision largely depends on your teams ability to get Hsam in again, and how many layers of spikes you need to win.

To further expand on the mons high skill cap you also need to manage how much damage your Hsam is dealing, dont tera if your going to get an ohko that could be a 2hko. More hits mean more spikes, so there is quiet a bit of nuance, planning, and decision making involved even with a band set. This skill cap only increases as the sets go on.

Assault Vest (Fatrott)
Samurott-Hisui @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
- Razor Shell
- Ceaseless Edge
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch

Created by Lulu as far as I know, what seperates this set from the others is the arch types it fits onto, and its ability to consistently set hazards during the midgame. This mon fits in with offensive builds that sport pivots such as defensive lando rather then aggressive offensive teams that focus on momentum.

I have a lack of experience here and believe the set to unoptimized but during my limited testing with lulus team I was suprised at how consistently this set was effective. Tera steel will really allows this mon to set full stack quiet often. It really speaks to the overall level of this mon, knock off is surprisingly useful as you’ll often reach full stack and want to click a more consistent move with additional utility. Again note this mon is extremely skill reliant. The better the player the more effective this set will be.

Any contribution to optimizing the set or added experience with the mon (talking to you lulu) would be valued. I would rate this as B- as its more niche to the team it would be placed onto, however it is effective when used correctly.

Choice Scarf (ScarfRott)
Samurott-Hisui @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sharpness
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Water
Jolly Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Razor Shell
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword

Not a ton to say here, 436 speed makes it a slower speed control but with a immense utility with edge and knock, it will consistently set spikes, provides breaking potential in razor shell/tera water for late game, and excellent coverage due to to typing and sacred sword, which also has utility in ignoring boosts from Pokémon like ID Garg.

B- imo, anyone with more experience with this set, contribution would be greatly valued.

Now for the bread and butter

Swords Dance (BrokenRott)
Samurott-Hisui @ Black Glasses
Ability: Sharpness
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Dark
Adament Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Cutter
- Ceaseless Edge
- Sucker Punch

This set is different from the others, turning Hsam from a simple hazard setter into a wincon/wallbreaker that sets hazards. The skill cap on this set is through the roof, The decision making is critical, choosing whether to click edge once and pivot out, or to SD, when to tera, knowing what hits he can survive to set up, capitalizing on your opponents respect and attempts at counter play, the list goes on . Once set up at plus 2 with tera this things a true demon. Things that outspeed it often die to sucker punch even when resisted, things that are slower get edged. Aqua cutter is exclusively to provide a move that doesn't miss, and doesn't make contact (only god knows why this doesn't make contact), to avoid peoples attempts at outplaying you with helmet.

The biggest mistake your oppenent can make is switching in a threat that cannot ohko Hsam after and SD, like a ferrothorn. You just tera and SD again and the game is basically over, this things match up into rain is absolutely brutal.

This Balance between being able to be a hazard setter, being a wallbreaker, and a wincon separates this set from the others, as time goes on this will only be enforced by the respect of the Pokémon's versatility, due to this imo this set is S-.

Other sets
I have seen many good sets, including the standard ones which I only covered scarf here. Sets ranging from sets with boots to water Z, if you have any you have used these sets and find them effective, please add in.

Sidenotes

Razorshell/Aqua Cutter

I find you want Razor shell on sets that lack immediate power like AV/Scarf and sets without SD. its a very powerful move and can break through targets via defense drops. However, on sets that due have immediate power Hsam benefits from consistency as you rarely click the water move. Aqua cutter most importantly doesnt make contact but also lands 100 percent of the time, has the increased crit chance to pseudo make up for Razor shells powerful 50 percent drop. Both moves are very viable, and just wanted to note the different uses.

Sets with Aqua Jet

I am finding aqua jet sets to be better then expected though I find it hard to place, any experience and contribution regarding the merits of Jet would be appreciated.

Conclusions
I'd like to nominate this Pokémon for a humble increase into A+ where I think it will stay depending on the long term results of Gholdengo's presence in meta (S- with Gholdengo imo, though this is quiet debatable on who is enabling who). This increase to A+ is largely based on its versatility allowing it to be consistent and effective across many builds.

Thanks for reading, and good luck

Most Recent Hsam Build
HFGL

​

I agree mostly about sam, the only issue imo is that it gets revenged by a decent bit of the meta, that being kart, lele, rilla, and almost anything faster, which is the entire meta at this point.
U also mentioned that trash samu gets beaten by alot but its rly the same case with the other samurotts.
Its not weak and neither is it undefining I just think A+ might be a bit much imo.
also, im wondering about the team, why is there a sucker mon with lele who removes priority and u also put torrent on the samu. (sorry about that comment just kinda had to ask there lol)

 

[Xoliduz]

I agree mostly about sam, the only issue imo is that it gets revenged by a decent bit of the meta, that being kart, lele, rilla, and almost anything faster, which is the entire meta at this point.
U also mentioned that trash samu gets beaten by alot but its rly the same case with the other samurotts.
Its not weak and neither is it undefining I just think A+ might be a bit much imo.
also, im wondering about the team, why is there a sucker mon with lele who removes priority and u also put torrent on the samu. (sorry about that comment just kinda had to ask there lol)

Just a team building error, I don't have many teams on PC so I had to create it on spot.

As far as revenging Hsam he isn't a sweeper, that's like saying heatran is easy to revenge, obviously pokemon can outspeed it, and lele is fine with sucker on one mon.

 

[Larrycharizard1]

Just a team building error, I don't have many teams on PC so I had to create it on spot.

As far as revenging Hsam he isn't a sweeper, that's like saying heatran is easy to revenge, obviously pokemon can outspeed it, and lele is fine with sucker on one mon.

Yea its amazing how much one spike can do in a game. I get your logic. I can definitely see a raise to A or A+ but not s-.

 

[about15guys]

Swords Dance (BrokenRott)
Samurott-Hisui @ Black Glasses
Ability: Sharpness
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Dark
Adament Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Cutter
- Ceaseless Edge
- Sucker Punch

This set is different from the others, turning Hsam from a simple hazard setter into a wincon/wallbreaker that sets hazards. The skill cap on this set is through the roof, The decision making is critical, choosing whether to click edge once and pivot out, or to SD, when to tera, knowing what hits he can survive to set up, capitalizing on your opponents respect and attempts at counter play, the list goes on . Once set up at plus 2 with tera this things a true demon. Things that outspeed it often die to sucker punch even when resisted, things that are slower get edged. Aqua cutter is exclusively to provide a move that doesn't miss, and doesn't make contact (only god knows why this doesn't make contact), to avoid peoples attempts at outplaying you with helmet.

The biggest mistake your oppenent can make is switching in a threat that cannot ohko Hsam after and SD, like a ferrothorn. You just tera and SD again and the game is basically over, this things match up into rain is absolutely brutal.

This Balance between being able to be a hazard setter, being a wallbreaker, and a wincon separates this set from the others, as time goes on this will only be enforced by the respect of the Pokémon's versatility, due to this imo this set is S-.

idt sd hsam is really that good, esp with max atk max spe. you've got 90/80/80 bulk which makes it really hard to actually set up, and your only priority being sucker feels kinda meh since with base 108 attack it hits like a wet noodle into a large majority of the metagame, great tusk completely owns you, mlop takes 50% from sucker at +2 unless you tera and its lack of relevant resistances means you'd be hard-pressed to find pokemon that can't 2hko it with coverage moves. being able to set spikes is nice but on a pokemon this frail imo it's just not worth it. why would I want to use a slot + tera on a pokemon that requires this much prediction to function when I could much more easily slot a setup sweeper like sd seed sneasler or qd volc. it's a cool idea for a set but idt its enough to warrant hsam rising 3 whole tiers, especially considering its matchups into some of the higher ranked pokemon. id like to point out what you mentioned because ferrothorn can absolutely deal with hsam, if it gets twaved it's basically dead in the water, even at +2 ceaseless is like a 3hko max, dealing insane amounts of barbs chip and if its bpress it can probably just knock you out right there. hsam's dark typing is arguably more of a downside than a boon in my opinion, kingambit was able to use it really well due to the secondary resists afforded to it by its steel typing and its much higher bulk allowing it to have good longlevity, all it really does in hsam's case is give it weaknesses to a lot of the very common fairy types, fighting types and u turns that are common in the tier

 

[Xoliduz]

idt sd hsam is really that good, esp with max atk max spe. you've got 90/80/80 bulk which makes it really hard to actually set up, and your only priority being sucker feels kinda meh since with base 108 attack it hits like a wet noodle into a large majority of the metagame, great tusk completely owns you, mlop takes 50% from sucker at +2 unless you tera and its lack of relevant resistances means you'd be hard-pressed to find pokemon that can't 2hko it with coverage moves. being able to set spikes is nice but on a pokemon this frail imo it's just not worth it. why would I want to use a slot + tera on a pokemon that requires this much prediction to function when I could much more easily slot a setup sweeper like sd seed sneasler or qd volc. it's a cool idea for a set but idt its enough to warrant hsam rising 3 whole tiers, especially considering its matchups into some of the higher ranked pokemon. id like to point out what you mentioned because ferrothorn can absolutely deal with hsam, if it gets twaved it's basically dead in the water, even at +2 ceaseless is like a 3hko max, dealing insane amounts of barbs chip and if its bpress it can probably just knock you out right there. hsam's dark typing is arguably more of a downside than a boon in my opinion, kingambit was able to use it really well due to the secondary resists afforded to it by its steel typing and its much higher bulk allowing it to have good longlevity, all it really does in hsam's case is give it weaknesses to a lot of the very common fairy types, fighting types and u turns that are common in the tier

This is factually wrong, check the calcs. I laid out band calcs for you. That has 519 attack. Sd has 696 at plus 2 and has black glass. This is a mon hitting harder then hoopa u after setup, you do up to 88 I believe to lopunny w tera for example w sucker, on a hazard stack team that isn't hard to chip a lopunny down 20 percent.

"Lack of relevant resistances"
As it's resisted both gholdengo gambit and one of pults stabs, every S rank mon weve had for months it has resistances to until recently Valiant.

Tusks also doesn't just come in for free because of water move and Hsam can always set a hazard and swap if leles (lele more relevant then anything you mentioned for disabling sweeps) or tusks are present to stop a sweep, always being useful and consistent. Wet noodle frankly is a bad joke, do better research and read my entire post. I rated the mon overall at A+ and that particular set S-. It is too early and largely dependent on the fate of gholdengo to call the mon S overall, even as dominant as it is.

And the mon is absolutely dominant in the meta at this moment, I personally am on a 50-6 run with the team I posted 1900 rating with 88.5 gxe and a peak of 1970. Ceobo, Lulu, both have peaked rank 1 with hsam and I believe realpineaplefred used hsam to reach rank 1 as well(ill confirm this). All of this very recent.

It's the most common build you will see above 1800, and you will see it more and more as time goes on. Particularly if the recommended sets are updated as they are all terrible and misleading to the mons potential and place in the meta.

 

[Moyashi]

its lack of relevant resistances

While I disagree with their overall sharp nom, I don't think it's correct to say it lacks relevant resistances. Sitting on Gholdengo is huge in this meta, and it is also very good into Heatran. I do agree SD sets aren't that great, and are not a reason to raise it that high.

you do up to 88 I believe to lopunny w tera for example w sucker, on a hazard stack team that isn't hard to chip a lopunny down 20 percent.

+2 252 Atk Black Glasses Tera Dark Samurott-Hisui Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lopunny-Mega: 170-200 (62.5 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'd recommend actually running calcs instead of making claims so you don't post incorrect info.

Tusks also doesn't just come in for free because of water move and Hsam can always set a hazard and swap

It's a prediction game that goes both ways. Sam players can end up ceding momentum if they click edge, because then tusk will just spin away the hazards as Sam runs away and you've effectively done nothing.

Wet noodle frankly is a bad joke, do better research and read my entire post. I rated the mon overall at A+ and that particular set S-. It is too early and largely dependent on the fate of gholdengo to call the mon S overall, even as dominant as it is.

Ironic you say this given your own post had incorrect information (your lop example). Again, you need to stop having this cocky attitude in your posts and talking to others this way. Sam could maybe go for a small raise, but A+ right now is stretching it as it still has flaws holding it back. Yes it's common especially at high ladder but that doesn't equate to higher ranking on the VR (as we discussed already).

 

[Xoliduz]

While I disagree with their overall sharp nom, I don't think it's correct to say it lacks relevant resistances. Sitting on Gholdengo is huge in this meta, and it is also very good into Heatran. I do agree SD sets aren't that great, and are not a reason to raise it that high.



+2 252 Atk Black Glasses Tera Dark Samurott-Hisui Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lopunny-Mega: 170-200 (62.5 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'd recommend actually running calcs instead of making claims so you don't post incorrect info.



It's a prediction game that goes both ways. Sam players can end up ceding momentum if they click edge, because then tusk will just spin away the hazards as Sam runs away and you've effectively done nothing.



Ironic you say this given your own post had incorrect information (your lop example). Again, you need to stop having this cocky attitude in your posts and talking to others this way. Sam could maybe go for a small raise, but A+ right now is stretching it as it still has flaws holding it back. Yes it's common especially at high ladder but that doesn't equate to higher ranking on the VR (as we discussed already).

I said I believe 88 max, not it is 88. I am work, step up and contribute in a positive nature.

Saying a mon hits like a wet noodle, and saying it has no relevant resists is nonsense and will be treated as such. You reap what you sow, you get the response you give.

Here is the correct calc, now that I am home. Not sure how you came up with that one, must be jolly. Maybe dont be so cocky huh? :P
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Tera Dark Samurott-Hisui Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny-Mega: 186-219 (68.6 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Again I will emphasize you can run calcs in a vacuum all you want, what you can't do is easily explain its impact on a game overall. This is because it is a highly skill dependent pokemon that requires high level decision making and is extremely punishable when you make mistakes. These are my humble opinions and while it may come off as cocky I assure you I am as battle tested and confident as they come in this tier, which leads me to firmly stand behind my takes. Others have had more success with different sets, I am fully aware of this. Rather then nit pick please contribute. That goes to both of you.

 

[Moyashi]

Saying a mon hits like a wet noodle, and saying it has no relevant resists is nonsense and will be treated as such. You reap what you sow, you get the response you give.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're going into every discussion assuming your view is correct and anyone else is wrong.

+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Tera Dark Samurott-Hisui Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny-Mega: 186-219 (68.6 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

What universe are you running adamant? The middling speed already limits what it can come in on. And it's the most common at high ladder to run jolly.

This is because it is a highly skill dependent pokemon that requires high level decision making and is extremely punishable when you make mistakes.

This is the only thing we'll agree on. But the fact it is such a high ceiling Pokemon also means it can be inconsistent, which can keep it out of the higher ranks potentially.

Rather then nit pick please contribute. That goes to both of you.

Neither 15guys or I were nitpicking. We were just critiquing your nom and pointing out why we disagreed. That IS contributing.

 

[Xoliduz]

Im

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're going into every discussion assuming your view is correct and anyone else is wrong.



What universe are you running adamant? The middling speed already limits what it can come in on. And it's the most common at high ladder to run jolly.



This is the only thing we'll agree on. But the fact it is such a high ceiling Pokemon also means it can be inconsistent, which can keep it out of the higher ranks potentially.



Neither 15guys or I were nitpicking. We were just critiquing your nom and pointing out why we disagreed. That IS contributing.

I never said my view was correct, quiet the opposite multiple times. You come down on me for returning fire on a bad and/or poorly researched take
while also agreeing it was bad and/or poorly researched.

"in the real life universe" Ada because there are no relevant mons in between 269-295. The only common set is Rilla which you can only speed tie, and of course other Hsams, and rarely kommos. The maximum damage compounds with hazard stacking and I find it more beneficial to push as much as you can rather then risk speed ties with two Pokémon. This makes it easier to get Hsam in a position to kill pokemon like Mega Lop over attempting speed ties with the small list of relevant threats.

As time goes on Pokemon may adjust to his presence and he may be forced into jolly, but for now Ada is effective on SD variants that run sucker punch. Perhaps a Tera steel setup variant will want jolly, but I find he lacks the stats to make a defensive tera typing worth it unless your AV.

And to correct you there is a large variety of sets being ran on ladder, narrowing down the effective sets is the purpose of the post as well as nominating it for A+

I think there are reasons for Jolly, but I dont think black glasses SD wants to trade the damage out for what it gains at this point in the meta.

Neither 15guys or I were nitpicking. We were just critiquing your nom and pointing out why we disagreed. That IS contributing.

"wet noodle"
"no relevant resistances"
"cocky"
"in what universe"

No post either of you have made doesn't include slander and/or poor takes. Contribute in a positive nature I said, I worked very hard on the post and in my testing of this Pokémon, experience is valued. Drama is not, and you will be met with the energy you bring like I said before.

What do you think the best Hsam set is?
How can AV be optimized?
How do we fix the lead set?
What about water based attacker sets?

 

[Larrycharizard1]

I never said my view was correct, quiet the opposite multiple times. You come down on me for returning fire on a bad and/or poorly researched take
while also agreeing it was bad and/or poorly researched.

"in the real life universe" Ada because there are no relevant mons in between 269-295. The only common set is Rilla which you can only speed tie, and of course other Hsams, and rarely kommos. The maximum damage compounds with hazard stacking and I find it more beneficial to push as much as you can rather then risk speed ties with two Pokémon. This makes it easier to get Hsam in a position to kill pokemon like Mega Lop over attempting speed ties with the small list of relevant threats.

And to correct you there is a large variety of sets being ran on ladder, narrowing down the effective sets is the purpose of the post as well as nominating it for A+

I think there are reasons for Jolly, but I dont think black glasses SD wants to trade the damage out for what it gains.

hey I just wanted to mention but normally you don't want to waste your tera on samu-H right away. because normally after it either gets revenged or just unable to secure koes with its not too great attack. its not a sweeper, as you mentioned before, and yet wasting tera on it to secure extremely important Koes just to be revenged after is not ideal. You can't just take tera for granted in calcs, it wont always be avaliable and wont always be a instant click. A rank for imo.
edit: just wanted to mention it can be worn down by pult's u-turn's so its not the best check to it by far, and it takes a decent chunk from shadow ball.
AV does have its merits for this tho ;) so it does have its ways around that.

 

[Xoliduz]

hey I just wanted to mention but normally you don't want to waste your tera on samu-H right away. because normally after it either gets revenged or just unable to secure koes with its not too great attack. its not a sweeper, as you mentioned before, and yet wasting tera on it to secure extremely important Koes just to be revenged after is not ideal. You can't just take tera for granted in calcs, it wont always be avaliable and wont always be a instant click. A rank for imo.

Its already A- rank
I nomitated it for A+ bud

I will address this non the less.
These calcs in a vacuum are not particularly relevant you will never stay in vs lopunny unless you no longer need your Hsam due to fake out, not because you have a hard time killing it after setup. I simply did the calc to show the correct amount of chip you would need to kill a Lopunny. This scenario has never happened to me, and likely will never happen due to fake out. This does not speak to Hsam's weakness but rather Lopunny's strength being, far from the only mon ranked highly to have trouble with Lopunny

 

[about15guys]

While I disagree with their overall sharp nom, I don't think it's correct to say it lacks relevant resistances. Sitting on Gholdengo is huge in this meta, and it is also very good into Heatran. I do agree SD sets aren't that great, and are not a reason to raise it that high.

sorry I mistyped, I meant to say it struggles to utilize its relevant resistances, not that it has none, while yeah it can sit on ghold, a neutral mir is doing 36% bare minimum, which isnt chip you can really afford to take on a base 85 speed pokemon with bulk this poor, especially when you consider its lack of leftovers and it taking 12% from rocks every time its coming in

 

[Xoliduz]

sorry I mistyped, I meant to say it struggles to utilize its relevant resistances, not that it has none, while yeah it can sit on ghold, a neutral mir is doing 36% bare minimum, which isnt chip you can really afford to take on a base 85 speed pokemon with bulk this poor, especially when you consider its lack of leftovers and it taking 12% from rocks every time its coming in

It sets a layer of spikes while attacking, it has massive utilization each time its in play bud. You are making this very difficult for me, and I am really trying at this point.

 

[sealoo]

while yeah it can sit on ghold, a neutral mir is doing 36% bare minimum, which isnt chip you can really afford to take on a base 85 speed pokemon with bulk this poor, especially when you consider its lack of leftovers and it taking 12% from rocks every time its coming in

You cant keep your HSam in a box all game, so taking chip shouldnt really worry you, it isnt a very consistent defensive piece but typing and utility lets it function. You get it on the field through avenues such as Gholdengo, Dragapult locked into a move, and Heatran before forcing them out while securing a spike. Does it accumulate chip when it switches into attacks and hazards? Yes, but the bulk is sufficient enough to where it can use that turn to get up the very valuable spike. I am inclined to agree with Xoli that if you are worried about its poor bulk and speed, you are most likely misunderstanding and/or unoptimally utilizing the mon.

As for my thoughts on HSam, I also believe it is A as the bit of defensive utility along with the consistent threat of spikes and an underrated damage output in and of itself lets it function rly well on fast paced offense. The previous success its seen on ladder, and the future success it will see in NDPL will reflect a rise in the future most likely.

 

[Xoliduz]

I woud like to take a moment to refine a few of the sets I posted and further expand on them

Samurott-Hisui @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Ghost/Steel/Dragon
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Atk / 28 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Razor Shell
- Sucker Punch
- Sacred Sword

I optimized its speed to out speed defensive lando and Rotom W
His Tera is quiet versatile, this set in particular is good at patching weaknesses you may have built into with your team and in a meta where there are so many things to prepare for sets like this are valuable. Dragon for Char Y, Steel for lele, Ghost as a catch all/spin blocker.

I still feel there may be a reason to invest in defense a bit over attack, but this will likely be discovered in testing
Here is an adaptation of the original team Primal Ace and I developed yesterday to counter some of the harsher match ups which included opposing Sneasler teams with Rilla, and some Garg teams.
https://pokepast.es/296536292b5595aa


In my research last night I found some builds may opt for running several SD variants, depending on the play style so I would like to expand on the options SD brings.

Samurott-Hisui @ Black Glasses /Mystic Water/Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Dark/Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Aqua Cutter/Razor Shell
- Sucker Punch/Aqua Jet
- Swords Dance


With a Mystic Water variation you opt for better match ups vs mons who struggle vs namely great tusks. I think this will be useful on more balanced builds that seek to play at a slower pace. I have yet to test this in practice but on paper the calcs seem good.

Great Tusks
While far from being perfect, tera water/mystic water gives you by far the best match up vs Tusks allowing more flexibility in building

252+ Atk Mystic Water Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 338-398 (91.1 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mystic Water Samurott-Hisui Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 120-144 (32.3 - 38.8%) -- 97.3% chance to 3HKO

Base level allows you to to punish Tusks who predict you clicking Edge, these calcs while not overly impressive by themselves will do well at punishing tusks not respecting Hsam

The long game
252+ Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 60-72 (16.1 - 19.4%) -- possible 6HKO

Setting one layer of spikes vs tusks enables a follow up of this calc after repositioning.

+2 252+ Atk Mystic Water Tera Water Samurott-Hisui Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 320-380 (86.2 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO \

This means the set can defend its own hazards vs tusks unlike the Black Glasses variant, allowing flexibility in your build.

Also when you tera water you now survive attacks that tusks will launch at you (if not booster)
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Samurott-Hisui: 237-280 (73.8 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Samurott-Hisui: 237-280 (73.8 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

This could come in handy for end games. I have not tested this in game, but it seems to provide some benefits Black Glasses do not. Thoughts?

 

[Larrycharizard1]

I woud like to take a moment to refine a few of the sets I posted and further expand on them

Samurott-Hisui @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Ghost/Steel/Dragon
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Atk / 28 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Razor Shell
- Sucker Punch
- Sacred Sword

I optimized its speed to out speed defensive lando and Rotom W
His Tera is quiet versatile, this set in particular is good at patching weaknesses you may have built into with your team and in a meta where there are so many things to prepare for sets like this are valuable. Dragon for Char Y, Steel for lele, Ghost as a catch all/spin blocker.

I still feel there may be a reason to invest in defense a bit over attack, but this will likely be discovered in testing
Here is an adaptation of the original team Primal Ace and I developed yesterday to counter some of the harsher match ups which included opposing Sneasler teams with Rilla, and some Garg teams.
https://pokepast.es/296536292b5595aa


In my research last night I found some builds may opt for running several SD variants, depending on the play style so I would like to expand on the options SD brings.

Samurott-Hisui @ Black Glasses /Mystic Water/Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Dark/Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Aqua Cutter/Razor Shell
- Sucker Punch/Aqua Jet
- Swords Dance


With a Mystic Water variation you opt for better match ups vs mons who struggle vs namely great tusks. I think this will be useful on more balanced builds that seek to play at a slower pace. I have yet to test this in practice but on paper the calcs seem good.

Great Tusks
While far from being perfect, tera water/mystic water gives you by far the best match up vs Tusks allowing more flexibility in building

252+ Atk Mystic Water Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 338-398 (91.1 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mystic Water Samurott-Hisui Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 120-144 (32.3 - 38.8%) -- 97.3% chance to 3HKO

Base level allows you to to punish Tusks who predict you clicking Edge, these calcs while not overly impressive by themselves will do well at punishing tusks not respecting Hsam

The long game
252+ Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 60-72 (16.1 - 19.4%) -- possible 6HKO

Setting one layer of spikes vs tusks enables a follow up of this calc after repositioning.

+2 252+ Atk Mystic Water Tera Water Samurott-Hisui Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 320-380 (86.2 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO \

This means the set can defend its own hazards vs tusks unlike the Black Glasses variant, allowing flexibility in your build.

Also when you tera water you now survive attacks that tusks will launch at you (if not booster)
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Samurott-Hisui: 237-280 (73.8 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Samurott-Hisui: 237-280 (73.8 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

This could come in handy for end games. I have not tested this in game, but it seems to provide some benefits Black Glasses do not. Thoughts?

Hey Xoliduz been looking into hsam recently. now I'm not much of a top-tier player but i can confirm that its great. ive been using ddnite spike stack + kyurem specs (pokepast.es) recently, and even if all it does is set up two spikes its still insanely impactful. there are alot of games i only won due to hazard chip. Its also a great sweeper or cleaner with SD as while it has many checks, can still do great things with ceasless edge + sucker punch. I've added a moltres onto this team to help deal with tusk, but honestly tusk can be worn down and koed in the end.
I think this mon is A tier material at least.
Also Just wanted to add that lefties might be a set to look into, as it can counter gholdengo more over time, and that tera poison could also be looked into. Hsam is truly a great mon.
Finally, just wanted to quickly note as well that its crazy that lele is A and not A+! move that mon up asap

 

[Larrycharizard1]

NOMINATING TYRANITAR MEGA TO A-!!! and some other quick noms
ogerpon-hearthflame to A/A+
This mon is crazy! with SD it can easily ohko alot of mons. it also has great coverage. while it does need to waste tera to secure alot of koes its a great cleaner and at this point everyone knows its the best mask form. Banworthy material imo. It can still be revenged, but there are ways to help it vs that in terms of team support.
Ursaluna bloodmoon B-/B
This mon isn't bad, as a calm mind wincon it can absorb some hits and ko back with its great stabs. with tera steel it also just game-ends stall right away. issue is that its horrible on the special defensive side and gets destroyed by the common special attacker, and loses to alot of common physical attackers like urshifu, ogerpon, mega lopunny, iron valiant... etc. Maybe even C tier for it but it has a valid niche in the meta.
Moltres to B+/A-
Great mon rn. counters so much of the meta without tera such as mega lopunny, scizor, ferrothorn, enamorus, iron valiant outside of tera electric, volcanarola, and mega mawwile. defog sets are great as their unexpected and they ko ghold easily. its also a cool, burn spreading pivot. no way this is B-.
ogerpon-cornerstone to C/B-
This mon sets up on mons like molt without willo, ursaluna-BM, dnite, and others that don't do much to its type combo. it has great physical bulk when it teras. the issue is that scizor revenges and walls it, and mons like ferrothorn and scarf urshifu do the same.
Nomming ttar-mega to A-
Yes that's right folks! the old king is back with a vengeance!
Ever since kingambit was banned I have been searching for a pokemon that could fill its role. Bisharp just wasn't enough, and scizor just didn't even force them out.
Then I thought of tyranitar and for a while a set of crunch/pursuit/stealth rock/stone edge was working to help me out, however it didn't really cut it and i sort of ending up giving up on the idea of a replacement, thinking that gambit was one-of-a-kind (which is true, it is)
Then the dlc came out and I noticed one thing: Knock off tyranitar.
It gave me new hope for the mon. now, when a great tusk or landorus switch in, they are taking a powerful knock off which removes their items. So for a while I was using the same ttar set but with knock off over crunch.
while it couldn't check lele or gholdengo like kingambit did, (unless lele is using psychic) it can check zard y, moltres, helps win weather wars, supports the team with sand, and counters niche mons like blacephalon.
Then I had a revelation: if kingambit could sweep with SD why can't ttar use dragon dance?
I know its not a new thing, but by spamming knock, and then using mons that expect it to pursuit them as setup bait then u can easily sweep or teat large holes in teams.
Sure, it doesn't have sucker punch but it had things gambit didn't as mentioned earlier.
Ttar isn't perfect but with stone edge, knock off, and ice punch it can do major things to teams.
I honestly wouldn't mention this if gambit wasn't banned but that was a mon blocking people from realising ttars potential.
some relevant calcs
+1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 232-274 (62.5 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO slight chip needed to ko
252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 300-356 (78.5 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO even less chip to ko, with rocks it has a chance to right out OHKO a lando
+1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Garganacl: 225-265 (55.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO--- +1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Stone Edge vs. +2 252 HP / 4 Def Garganacl: 117-138 (28.9 - 34.1%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recoveryfree knock but honestly dont stay in it might body press, and u need rocks to ko
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 102-122 (29.9 - 35.7%) -- 30.2% chance to 3HKO setup and ko however burn lol
+1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Toxapex: 160-189 (52.8 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
+2 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 44+ Def Toxapex: 237-280 (78.2 - 92.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (not relevant but can ko with two dds which honestly isnt too hard to get
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 230-272 (67.4 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO if its 1v1 it can dd then ice punch but again not that relevant
252 SpA Diancie-Mega Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 206-246 (60.4 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Diancie-Mega: 298-352 (123.6 - 146%) -- guaranteed OHKO
listen im all up for arguements and disscussion but theres a dif between in theory and getting to 1750 with ttar which ik isnt that high but its a good mon and I think it has a place in nat dex A-
EDIT: I think band has ALOT of potential, it can 2hko skarmory, toxapex, etc...with band knock. pretty cool stuff. also great pursuiter with band.