SPEED TIERS! https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eK9vaTRsgQsqSFtovVgHc-381HFwp8_Mmh1EfTh83t4/edit
Tagging the venerable
Mazz (i kinda stole this project from him D:) and
BrandonBeast so they can give input on PS, VMs, or wherever, but anyone can feel free to hmu about questions, comments and concerns about the list.
Do not post about problems with the Speed tiers in here unless it's an aside in conjunction with a usual post, since doing so will create unproductive spam and probably derail more productive conversation.
Couple items:
- I tried to cut my workload by only listing stuff that makes sense; for example, I didn't list min Speed Kadabra or +Spe max Quilladin.
- It's pretty low on relevant Scarf users, Speed dancers, and weather abusers right now, so those are things in particular I would appreciate input on.
- I added a -Spe section for the reeeeaaalllyyy slow mons at the bottom because I low-key think TR could be very good in this meta.
And that's pretty much it. This can be put in the OP whenever that gets around to happening, but until then, remember post #111 qB^)
Enjoy!
You did those Speed Tiers at Level 100. They need to be Level 50. However, kudos on getting those done in about the same time I used to argue with myself about starting them. All that's really left is to add the remaining stuff that doubles its Speed under weather (Lombre, Ivysaur, and Herdier are major examples of this). It's probably worthwhile to add Adamant Whirlepede at +2 in case someone were to run a Choice Band set or something. It's not ideal, but even the Endeavour set commonly hits +2 and it's nice to know what will and won't outpace it at that speed.
In terms of the discussion points,
Fletchinder should probably remain at A+. Priority Acrobatics is a godsend, and it bulldozes through a lot of things after a Swords Dance, with the only things it doesn't beat being Rhydon, Lairon, Doublade, and stuff that can't afford to switch in (but can revenge kill, ie: Electabuzz, Porygon2). If played well, it can U-turn out of those situations and keep momentum on its side. If Doublade or Lairon switch in on it, the potential Fire Blast is going to do tons of damage as well. However, it has a very crippling Stealth Rock weakness and is hard do bring in due to its low defences - you almost have to Defog / Spin Rocks away if you want to use it. Fletchinder is also super vulnerable to all other Priority moves in the tier and pretty much anything that naturally outspeeds it and can take an unboosted hit (FS Kadabra, Electabuzz, etc.); again, the paper-thin defences aren't doing it any good. This keeps Fletchinder from breaking stuff like Doublade. Any prior damage, and Doublade will be able to 2HKO Fletchinder (assuming it can't or doesn't Roost off the Stealth Rock damage).
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Fletchinder: 54-64 (36 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
The definition of S-Rank is for stuff that requires little to no support - Fletchinder doesn't quite meet these requirements imo. It
needs something to get rid of Rocks, and it really, REALLY appreciates having something to remove Rhydon and Doublade (the former still beats it with a Burn anyways).
Servine to A+/S is beyond reasonable, to the point where it's borderline S. Much like Fletchinder - there's some stuff it absolutely needs removed (Sliggoo, Golbat, Combusken, Fletchinder, etc.), but once those are gone this thing stomps on the Middle Cup metagame. I'm keeping an eye on Servine and how the metagame has to respond to it. If I find that it's heavily restricting on teambuilding, I won't hesitate to nominate it for suspect.
Kadabra to A+. Hard to say, as it really depends on the set you use and how the other team is built. I've rarely lost matches when using it. Encore allows it to set up on so many things in Middle Cup, Focus Sash almost guarantees it a KO per game, if not more, and its movepool allows it to out-muscle a lot of its checks (Dazzling Gleam anyone?). Right now I'd keep it at A+ until a certain few of you quit building teams that get 6-0'd by Kadabra ;], and then look at this one once more people start playing. As it stands, it's got a very convincing argument to go S-rank, but it's nowhere near as polarizing as Servine, so I'd hold off on raising it too far.
Monferno to A is good. I like using the Endeavor + SR lead set, but Combusken and Magmar are better offensively. Monferno does bring value to a VoltTurn team however, and it's in no way a terrible choice for a team, so no need to drop it too far.
Pupitar is shite, drop it to C. DD is no good on it and it's a garbage Sandstorm setter. I'm curious as to what kind of niche others have found for it. Not being a Dark-type akin to Tyranitar really sucks for Pupitar (as it's arguably the coolest-looking 'mon in MC).
I want to test Pignite some more, actually had an idea about it this morning, so definitely focus on this one in terms of conversation. The others are pretty much straight-forward.