Middle Cup ORAS

[Cheryl.]

Ok, so I removed Magneton now that it's officially banned. As for other ban-worthy mons, Porygon2 is definitely worth looking at, it's way too effective in all of it's roles (which are many, making it versatile and unpredictable), and it can survive almost any hit, making it at least make a small impact every game it's used in. Combusken might also be worth looking at, it's very easy to just crush teams with it thanks to Speed Boost, but it isn't as hard to take down due to Scarfers outspeeding it at +1, and the lower accuracy of it's STAB moves if special attacking. (Also Fletch hurts it) Overall, with some of these mons banned, the meta will hopefully get better and more developed! Keep up the good work guys!

 

[Mazz]

Ok, so I removed Magneton now that it's officially banned. As for other ban-worthy mons, Porygon2 is definitely worth looking at, it's way too effective in all of it's roles (which are many, making it versatile and unpredictable), and it can survive almost any hit, making it at least make a small impact every game it's used in. Combusken might also be worth looking at, it's very easy to just crush teams with it thanks to Speed Boost, but it isn't as hard to take down due to Scarfers outspeeding it at +1, and the lower accuracy of it's STAB moves if special attacking. (Also Fletch hurts it) Overall, with some of these mons banned, the meta will hopefully get better and more developed! Keep up the good work guys!

My only issue with getting rid of Porygon2 is that it's arguably the last special "wall" in the tier. Togetic's typing is better suited for being a physical tank, and that's too much pressure to put on Dusclops. The only other options are Roselia/Gloom - which hate Ice-, Fire-, and Psychic-type attacks, and Assault Vest Pokémon like Sliggoo.

There's a lot that forces Porygon2 out - Gurdurr and Machoke usually don't mind having to chew on a Discharge or Ice Beam (the former heals up with drain punch anyways). Combusken and Doublade set up on it, and even something like SubCM Lampent will easily set up on Porygon2 (just needs to be wary of Toxic). It's not broken, just good at what it does. Getting rid of Magneton was good enough I think. Let's let the meta "settle" (between the <10 of us that currently play it). We don't need to be banhappy. Play around with it, run as many calculations as you want to, and if you've found sufficient data, then we can look at it. Otherwise we're banning for the sake of banning, which is bad policy.

Note: was unaware that I was using the wrong definition of quickban. I'm glad that the point I was trying to get across was received though.

Edit: Choice Scarf Electabuzz and Kadabra outspeed Combusken when it's +2. Anything past that and you'll need Rain Dance Poliwhirl, Lampent, Focus Sash Kadabra, I think Duosion can stomach either a Blitz or a Fire Blast, a Marill, or Fletchinder to beat it. Priority from Doublade or Monferno can pick it off if it's weak enough. I can see how it may be centralizing. Stuff like Sheldon and Marshtomp I imagine can take a hit and do something in return, but Combusken is definitely worth looking at, but again let's take some time on this one.

 

[Cheryl.]

So I'm gonna post some sets that I've been using lately, mostly to help Mazz with the Speed Tiers and what EV spread that mons use. This can also help you guys with Teambuilding Ideas as well, so let's do this!

Defensive Defog

Golbat @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
Level: 50
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Super Fang / U-Turn / Toxic

This Golbat set is made to be a reliable bulky Defogger that can wall many threats in the metagame, such as Grass or Fighting types. Maximum HP and Defense investment make Golbat as physically bulky as possible, letting it better wall the likes of stuff like Gurdurr. Brave Bird is a good STAB move, Defog is great for removing hazards, and Roost is for recovery. The last slot can be Super Fang to cripple switchins like Rhydon, U-Turn to grab momentum, or Toxic to cripple switchins and wear down the opposing team.

Offensive Defog

Golbat @ Leftovers / Sky Plate
Ability: Infiltrator
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- U-Turn / Taunt

This set may not be as bulky as the last set, but it still checks what it needs to check, while still being a good Defogger and providing a more offensive presence. It also makes use of Golbat's good Speed stat, letting it outspeed threats like Servine. U-Turn for grabbing momentum, and Taunt can also stop walls.

Nasty Plot

Golbat @ Life Orb
Ability: Infiltrator
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Bomb / Air Slash
- Heat Wave
- Giga Drain

This set isn't made to check threats, it is used to sweep with Nasty Plot. Golbat can actually hit pretty hard at +2, and it has great coverage as well. Giga Drain can lure in Marshtomp and Rhydon and kill them, Heat Wave roasts Steel-types, and the STAB move is either Sludge Bomb for a harder hit on Fairy-types, or Air Slash to hit Fighting types harder. This set may not be the best because it sacrifices Golbat's defensive qualities, but it's still a good sweeper that can ravage unprepared teams.

Special Attacker

Combusken @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Protect
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Rock] / Baton Pass

This set is used to break down teams and potentially sweep late-game with Speed Boost and Combusken's respectable Special Attack stat. Timid lets Combusken outspeed Kadabra and Electabuzz at +1, while Modest gives Combusken a bit more power. HP Rock lures in and OHKO Fletchinder, and 2HKOs Lampent, while Baton Pass lets Combusken retain momentum while also passing speed boosts to a teammate.

Swords Dance

Combusken @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Sky Uppercut / Low Kick
- Protect / Thunder Punch / Rock Slide

This set uses SD to boost Combusken's Attack stat to deadly levels and sweep. Flare Blitz is a powerful STAB move that only has the drawback of recoil, Sky Uppercut is a reliable Fighting STAB, while Low Kick can be used to damage Rhydon harder, OHKOing it at +2. Protect lets Combusken speed boost safely, Thunder Punch hits Water and Flying types, while Rock Slide hits Fletchinder and Lampent harder.

Offensive Tank

Sliggoo @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
Level: 50
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Def
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Sludge Wave / Rest

This set allows Sliggoo to check a lot of threats, such as Fire and Grass-types, while still retaining a good offensive presence with Sliggoo's good coverage. Draco Meteor hits pretty damn hard, TBolt and Ice Beam give BoltBeam coverage, and Sludge Wave hits Fairy-types, while Rest can be used to give some recovery to Sliggoo. Hidden Power Fire can be used to hit Steel types as well, but isn't very strong.

Curse

Sliggoo @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
Level: 50
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Outrage
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

This set is a great bulky win con with Curse and Sliggoo's great bulk. Curse patches up Sliggoo's physical defense as well, and Sliggoo is already slow enough as well. It needs support to beat Steel types and Fairy types, but overall with support it's very threatening.

Wall

Sliggoo @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold / Calm Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thunderbolt / Toxic

This set is used to wall but not sweep. Sliggoo may not have the greatest support movepool, but it's typing and bulk still let it wall a number of threats, like Fire and Water types. Dragon Pulse is a reliable STAB, RestTalk provides recovery, and TBolt hits bulky Waters and provides good neutral coverage in general, while Toxic cripples threats.

 

[Maysoon]

I wasn't trying to say that we should necessarily get rid of P2 right away but I do think that further down the line it is something that should be looked at. I just poorly phrased what I was saying, that's my own fault. Anyway something that does look cool

Nidorino @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Head Smash
- Drill Run
- Poison Jab

CB Nidorino is a really cool wallbreaker in the tier. With Hustle and CB it can afford to run jolly so it hits 128 Spe, which when a speed tier list comes out can be optimized so you only run enough evs to outpace w/e you want and then just run some bulk. Anyway this set is really good at what it does since Nidorino's switch ins are fairly limited. Even Rhydon is 2HKOd by it if they aren't running Def investment. As stated in the VR Nidorino has pretty good coverage to do what it wants. It even gets Sucker so you can beat some of those annoyinh scarfers.

252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Nidorino Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhydon: 122-144 (57.5 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I think instead of looking at Nidorino as a physical sweeper we should look at it as a wallbreaker.

Hell even Dusclops doesn't like switching in:

252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Nidorino Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 74-88 (50.3 - 59.8%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Nidorino Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 79-94 (53.7 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Doublade dies as well:

252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Nidorino Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Doublade: 88-104 (53 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Cheryl.]

Some more sets I've been using:

Dragon Dance

Pupitar @ Life Orb
Ability: Shed Skin
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Crunch / Substitute

Pupitar's niche is in being a scary Dragon Dance sweeper thanks to it's STAB EdgeQuake coverage. It doesn't get many set-up opportunities, but it can force out the likes of Fletchinder and other Flying types quite well, so use that as an opportunity to set up DD and sweep. The last slot is mainly filler, Crunch hits Psychics slightly harder than Pupitar's STABs do, and Substitute can be used on walls or forced switches to gain set-up opportunities. Overall, Pupitar may not be the greatest mon, but it's definitely a threat to look out for.

Offensive Support

Krokorok @ Dread Plate / Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Stealth Rock / Taunt

Pretty basic here. Krokorok is like the only Pursuit trapper in MC and it does it's job well, effectively trapping the likes of Duosion and Gothorita, while also forcing Kadabra in a situation if you haven't revealed that you're not Scarf. Stealth Rock is awesome, and Taunt can be used to stallbreak and hurt walls.

Choice Scarf

Krokorok @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit

Scarf Krokorok is an awesome cleaner and revenge killer thanks to Moxie boosting it's Attack every time it kills something, making it turn into a potential snowball that can't be stopped. It's also nice to outspeed Combusken at +1 and outspeed Electabuzz and Kadabra. Stone Edge is used to hit Flying types like Golbat.

 

[Sacrificed]

I think nidorino would be great setup sweeper because accuracy boost is great for nido and also it raises its attack also it gets sucker punch as a priorty and drill run for steel types
Nidorino (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hone Claws
- Poison Jab
- Sucker Punch
- Drill Run

And ı am new to tier and ı am using this set for sealeo is this ok?

Sealeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 12 Def / 84 SpA / 116 SpD / 44 Spe
Calm Nature
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Surf
- Toxic
44 spe is for outspeeding neutral 50 bases

 

[Maysoon]

While Nidorino would make a cool setup sweeper the problem it faces is the lack of bulk to let it take hits. However if you do get up a boost or two against some more passive mons that's where Hone Claws Nidorino shines. It really just needs to be careful of things like sash Kadabra that can revenge kill it easily.

 

[Maysoon]

A look at some mons, one awful and one not so much. Sorry about the double post, I wanted to start a different discussion etc. Also some people don't see edits. If anyone feels the need to merge my posts feel free.

Jigglypuff

While Jigglypuff may be terrible that doesn't mean I can't suggest a set for those of you wanting to try it out. Well let's get to what I was thinking for Puff if you ever decided to shoot yourself in the foot and use it:

Jigglypuff @ Assault Vest
Ability: Competitive
Level: 50
EVs: 240 HP / 156 SpA / 108 SpD
Calm Nature
- Fire Blast
- Blizzard
- Shadow Ball/Dazzling Gleam/Psychic/Grass Knot
- Thunder

This Jigglypuff has one and only one purpose, kill frail special mons. It does its job fairly well too, sure it's severely outclassed but it does hold some merit. Now Jigglypuff's main issue is it's terrible stats, I mean they are god awful. However what it lacks in stats it makes up with movepool. Similar to P2 Jigglypuff has a wide range of moves at its disposable. Unlike P2 it is one of the worst mons in the tier. All the moves chosen are for their high BP and as coverage. Jigglypuff needs to risk the accuracy to be able to hope to 2HKO even the frailest of mons. However Jigglypuff isn't all bad, in fact I think that E rank is a bit harsh. Given TR support and if you play it right, get those boosts from competitive when Golbat defogs, cause who would think a Fairy-type would want to switch into Golbat. You may in fact, after all this support have something a bit more useful. I mean at +2 your SpAtk will be at 170, almost as good as Kadabra's.

156 SpA Jigglypuff Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kadabra: 58-70 (50 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Kadabra Psychic vs. 240 HP / 108+ SpD Assault Vest Jigglypuff: 91-108 (41.3 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

At the end of the day, should you use Jigglypuff. No, don't use it like you wouldn't use Wigglytuff in PU. Is Jigglypuff deserving of E rank? Yes, but honestly it's hard to say because compared to everything else in the E rank Jigglypuff has something going for it, a good movepool and an okay ability as well as a giant HP stat all make it seem like it could've been something. And just like any other mon in the tier Jigglypuff deserves some kind of breakdown.

Eelektrik

Eelektrik, essentially a better Jigglypuff, maybe use this lil' guy instead.

Eelektrik @ Assault Vest
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Aqua Tail/Iron Tail
- U-turn
- Spark/Wild Charge

Eelektrik, probably one of my favorite evolution line from Gen V, Eelektrik is a really cool Pokémon. First thing that Eelektrik has is 0 weaknesses aside from Moldbreaker EQ and what not. This also means it avoids Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Sticky Web. Eelektrik also has pretty good stats, definitely better than Jigglypuff's as well as a solid movepool. Knock Off is there to be spammable and get rid of item reliant Pokémon and it also hits Psychic and Ghost-types had which is always very nice. Aqua Tail allows Eelektrik to put up a fight against Ground-types like Rhydon and Vibrava while U-turn is used over Volt Switch since nothing is immune to U-turn and U-turn is physical. Iron Tail is an option to hit Fairies and still hit Rock-types. For the last move I put in either Spark or Wild Charge as options. Now some might question the use of Spark. I will give a few reasons as to why I chose it as an option. The first and most important reason, it wears Eelektrik down way too fast. This just makes Eelektrik a liability since it is going to be requiring Cleric support more often if it brings Wild Charge. And unlike Eelektross, Eelektrik doesn't learn Thunder Punch but Spark only has 10 less BP over it, not that bad. Spark also has that nice 30% para chance which can allow Eelektrik to outspeed things and pick a kill it might've not.

Eelektrik being so much like its "father" also can run a Special set just like its "father"

Eelektrik @ Assault Vest
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 248 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet/Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]/Hidden Power [Ice]
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off/Flash Cannon/Thunderbolt

This is Eelektrik's special set, it does what the physical set does but less effectively in my opinion. The first move Volt Switch is obligatory, it allows Eelektrik to pivot around and acts as STAB. HP Fire is there to hit Steel-types and Grass-types while HP Ice let's it hit Grass-types as well as hit Dragons. Giga Drain lets Eelktrik hit Ground types that would otherwise wall it and it also lets it restore some HP increasing its longevity. Knock Off is there for the same reasons as in the physical set. It's spammable and hits Psychics and Ghosts. Tbolt acts as a more powerful STAB that doesn't force you to switch out and Flash Cannon hits Fairies which can be annoying to Eelektrik.

 

[Samoyed]

to B-
Braixen has a niche in the great combo Solar Beam + Power Herb + Magician, decent special attack and speed. Its weaknesses leave it somewhat vulnerable, but its ability to slow down Combusken and check Doublade fairly well makes it deserving of B-, in my opinion.

Braixen @ Power Herb
Level: 50
Ability: Magician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Psychic
- Substitute / Hidden Power Ground / Will-O-Wisp

HP Ground for coverage, Substitute can set up while Combusken protects and increases its longevity. Will-O-Wisp screws over physical attackers.
Fire Blast is STAB, Solar Beam is the point of this set, and Psychic hits Fighting and Poison types that are somewhat common in this meta.

252 SpA Braixen Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 196 SpD Doublade: 188-224 (113.2 - 134.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Combusken Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Braixen: 129-152 (95.5 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Braixen Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Combusken: 124-146 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Braixen can set Sub up on obvious Protect, and if they don't you outspeed them.
252 SpA Braixen Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Porygon2: 70-84 (36.4 - 43.7%) -- 98.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Meh. Braixen is very niche, but I think it deserves B-.

 

[Whydon]

Baton Pass Whirlipede + Swords Dance Charmeleon? I feel like this could be an interesting combo, I'll do some testing with it later. Monfero would probably be better but I like Charmeleon.

 

[Mazz]

Baton Pass Whirlipede + Swords Dance Charmeleon? I feel like this could be an interesting combo, I'll do some testing with it later. Monfero would probably be better but I like Charmeleon.

Whirlipede doesn't get Baton Pass unfortunately. I've already looked into it some.

 

[Whydon]

Whirlipede doesn't get Baton Pass unfortunately. I've already looked into it some.

Oh that's a shame :[ well, I'm sure Charmeleon has something over Monferno

 

[Cheryl.]

Oh that's a shame :[ well, I'm sure Charmeleon has something over Monferno

Charmeleon does have something over Monferno in the form of it's ability Solar Power, making it a dangerous wallbreaker in the Sun and a good choice for Sun teams.

 

[Take Azelfie]

Dragon Dance counts for something as well i guess

Oh that's a shame :[ well, I'm sure Charmeleon has something over Monferno

 

[Wooly Ampharosite]

Ifor some time, I have been testing Skiploom and while its stats may seem underwhelming, it is a great support pokemon due to its decent speed and good movepool. Skiploom has access to great support moves, such as Sleep Powder, Encore, and Memento, which help teammates set up. A Swords Dance set is also viable on Skiploom and it has a small niche over Fletchinder with Seed Bomb.

Skiploom
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Acrobatics
- Memento / Swords Dance / U-turn
- Seed Bomb / U-turn / Encore

 

[Maysoon]

I was looking at the VR and was surprised that Chespin wasn't ranked. It is the only Grass-type in MC that hard walls Roselia and can set-up on it as well as hard walling two attacks Haunter.

Quilladin @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Wood Hammer
- Zen Headbutt/Drain Punch

The same as Quilladin's PU set but it works even better here. Zen Headbutt is the preferred move as it hits Roselia, Haunter and other Poison-types for super effective damage. Taunt stops Golbat from defogging and Roselia from Spiking or healing. Quilladin's main niche as being a Spiker that hard walls Roselia is good enough for it to deserve B Rank. Sure Quilladin is slow and can be abused by Fire and Flying-types but it can really mess with unprepared teams that think because they have Sludge Bomb they can hit any Grass-type. However, Quilladin isn't limited to being a spiker:

Quilladin @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP/ 172 Atk / 84 SpD
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Stone Edge
- Synthesis
- Bulk Up

This Quilladin set capitalizes on its ability to setup on a select few mons in the meta and tries to get a late game sweep. Once any special attackers that can threaten Quilladin are gone (most of them) and anything that can wall it and do something back is gone (Steel-types) then Quilladin can begin setting up. At +1 you OHKO offensive Golbat with Stone Edge however you still cant stomach a Brave Bird very well and a Sky Plate boosted one is going to kill. This set isn't as good as the spikes one but it goes behind the same principle of abusing mons that can't touch you due to Bulletproof and using it as a setup opportunity. There isn't a whole lot to say about Quilladin, it plays like you would expect it to.

 

[Cheryl.]

I was looking at the VR and was surprised that Chespin wasn't ranked. It is the only Grass-type in MC that hard walls Roselia and can set-up on it as well as hard walling two attacks Haunter.

Quilladin @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Wood Hammer
- Zen Headbutt/Drain Punch

The same as Quilladin's PU set but it works even better here. Zen Headbutt is the preferred move as it hits Roselia, Haunter and other Poison-types for super effective damage. Taunt stops Golbat from defogging and Roselia from Spiking or healing. Quilladin's main niche as being a Spiker that hard walls Roselia is good enough for it to deserve B Rank. Sure Quilladin is slow and can be abused by Fire and Flying-types but it can really mess with unprepared teams that think because they have Sludge Bomb they can hit any Grass-type. However, Quilladin isn't limited to being a spiker:

Quilladin @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP/ 172 Atk / 84 SpD
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Stone Edge
- Synthesis
- Bulk Up

This Quilladin set capitalizes on its ability to setup on a select few mons in the meta and tries to get a late game sweep. Once any special attackers that can threaten Quilladin are gone (most of them) and anything that can wall it and do something back is gone (Steel-types) then Quilladin can begin setting up. At +1 you OHKO offensive Golbat with Stone Edge however you still cant stomach a Brave Bird very well and a Sky Plate boosted one is going to kill. This set isn't as good as the spikes one but it goes behind the same principle of abusing mons that can't touch you due to Bulletproof and using it as a setup opportunity. There isn't a whole lot to say about Quilladin, it plays like you would expect it to.

Nice sets! Quilladin is actually ranked at A-, but thanks for the sets!

 

[Whydon]

Any idea as to what Grotle can do? It's listed as B- so I'm guessing it has a niche?

 

[Cheryl.]

Any idea as to what Grotle can do? It's listed as B- so I'm guessing it has a niche?

It's the only Grass type with access to Stealth Rock, and it's also pretty physically bulky and can also run a decent Curse set, but it faces a lot of competition from the other Grassers in term of a teamslot.

 

[Maysoon]

Nice sets! Quilladin is actually ranked at A-, but thanks for the sets!

Huh, I didnt see it thats what being sick gets you lol

 

[Whydon]

Does Jigglypuff deserve to be E-rank? I mean it's literally the one Pokemon in that rank that isn't a cocoon. At least Jigglypuff can actually try to do something with attacks. Everything else listed in that rank doesn't even have access to more than 10 moves, at least Jigglypuff has a movepool you can actually scroll through in the teambuilder.

 

[Cheryl.]

Does Jigglypuff deserve to be E-rank? I mean it's literally the one Pokemon in that rank that isn't a cocoon. At least Jigglypuff can actually try to do something with attacks. Everything else listed in that rank doesn't even have access to more than 10 moves, at least Jigglypuff has a movepool you can actually scroll through in the teambuilder.

The problem is that you would probably never consider Jigglypuff for any serious Middle Cup team, because it's outclassed by all the other Fairies in the tier, has horrible stats in general, and is just bad. Like sure it's better than Metapod, of course, but it's just so bad that E Rank's a good spot for it.

 

[Whydon]

The problem is that you would probably never consider Jigglypuff for any serious Middle Cup team, because it's outclassed by all the other Fairies in the tier, has horrible stats in general, and is just bad. Like sure it's better than Metapod, of course, but it's just so bad that E Rank's a good spot for it.

You probably wouldn't use anything in the D-rank either. I just find it strange that Jigglypuff is in a rank filled with Pokemon that are literally useless, because Jigglypuff isn't useless. Is it downright horrible? Yes, but at least it has an HP stat and a mediocre ability and, again, an actual movepool. Honestly even D- is fine for it, I just think E-rank is a bit too much for the poor thing.

 

[Maysoon]

Jigglypuff is E-Rank because it needs just as much support as the cocoons in order to do anything really. Pokemon in D-Rank like Bayleef are leaps and bounds better than Jigglypuff and at least Bayleef requires less support, it has nice bulk and offenses.

 

[Whydon]

Jigglypuff is E-Rank because it needs just as much support as the cocoons in order to do anything really. Pokemon in D-Rank like Bayleef are leaps and bounds better than Jigglypuff and at least Bayleef requires less support, it has nice bulk and offenses.

Jigglypuff can do more on its own than a cocoon can though. Also, I would use Jigglypuff on a gimmick team. I would not use a cocoon on a gimmick team because they literally cannot fill any type of role. Jigglypuff can at least try and fill the role of an Offensive Fairy type or a bulky Fairy type, despite being outclassed by Clefairy in each and every way. The cocoons serve literally no purpose in the metagame, which is why they're in E-rank. You can't support the cocoons because they literally can't do anything, even if you give them support.