Metagame Metagame Discussion

Alright so new Trailer dropped for the DLC and I thought it would be fun to talk about some of the new LC-Eligible Pokémon that are confirmed to come with the DLC. Ik there is a post above, so I'll be focusing on the new trailer rather than the older ones.

DLC 1: The Teal Mask (Confirmed for 9/13 Release Date)

:ekans: Looks bad per usual, but (if it is still around) Tera could (humongous could) help it carve a small D Rank Niche perhaps.

:poliwag: Belly Drum + Hypnosis could be a cool combination, but there's a later Pokémon who got banned last gen for using Belly Drum so Poliwag probably won't be good.

:oddish: Looks bad don't use it.

:cleffa: Looks bad DO NOT use it.

:swinub: Ok so hear me out. Swinub could (major could) be a nice emergency check to Hisuian Voltorb thanks to Ice Shard. Probably nothing worth noting otherwise though.

:duskull: Bulky Ghost... yay. Being real though, we only have like one good Ghost type and that could change eventually. Duskull won't be anything special, but it could be a D Ranker perhaps.

:phantump: Other than funny SubSeed + Harvest sets, this thing probably won't be good. It's outclassed as a Ghost type by Drifloon and as a Grass type by Grookey. Also Bramblin exists.

DLC 2: The Indigo Disk (No Confirmed Date yet).

:sandshrew: If Drilbur does not return, I could see Sandshrew being used as a Spinner with an Electric Immunity. Unfortunately, the best Electric Type... has Grass STAB.

:sandshrew-alola: If it gets Triple Axel, it could reprise the niche it had last gen. Plus being able to Tera into a better typing could be really nice. Could do Tera Water or Tera Ghost imo.

:geodude: Not good per usual really.

:geodude-alola: Magnet Pull dude really. What Steels are there to trap though? Pawniard and Diglett-Alola? Oh yeah that's right, anything can become a Steel, and as long as they don't have Levitate, Scarf EQ can put in work.

:doduo: This could be good tbh. It all depends on if it gets to keep Jump Kick or not. If it gets a better Fighting Move, this thing could be really good. If it keeps Jump Kick, still very good. If it loses Jump Kick and doesn't get a new fighting move, it would not be good.

:tyrogue: No.

:magby: The Fire Type Belly Drummer from Gen 8 returns with a passion I guess? I don't really know, I didn't use Magby last gen, was a bit too enamored with Unburden + Grassy Surge so I really didn't care for Magby. It'll probably be good.

:rhyhorn: If Onix does not return this gen, Rhyhorn will be the defacto Rock type in the tier. Otherwise, if Onix does return, no one is using Rhyhorn.

:cranidos: Head Smash? That's it really? Scarf sets could be good? I have no idea I didn't use Cranidos in Gen 7, it looked... bad.

:shieldon: Looks bad, don't use it.

:litwick: Alright so hear me out. If the Unburden Pokemon do get banned randomly, and Zorua-Hisui usage drops off a cliff, Litwick could be good. Key word could.

:inkay: I dont care what anyone says, Topsy-Turvy strats are funny af. In terms of being a good Pokémon... no.

BTW, these Pokemon are based on what I found from footage at the moment. If I find more, I'll update the list.

Ekans actually has some cool tricks, like Glare + Switcheroo and Coil. Diglett being banned is actually big for every Poison type, Ekans included.

Agree with Poliwag. Tera can help if it transforms into Ground or Fire.

Oddish does look bad... unless Vulpix comes back. All current Chlorophyll users look worse than Oddish, except maybe Deerling.

Cleffa is terrible, but only Magic Guard user. Can have some usage with random Counters (+Sash) and Thunder Waves.

Agree with Swinub.

Duskull learns Trick Room!

I used Phantump in Gen 8 with Harvest Oran Berry + paralysis support. It needs a really big support, but it does somewhat work. With Tera it can have a better typing for the job.

Kanto Sandshrew: This Mon will actually have a niche even with Drillbur in the Tier. Sand teams might make a comeback . Tera allows both of them to work differently and wear each other checks down. Outside of Sand, it still has Knock Off over Drilbur. Knock Off is a broken move, so Sandshrew can either be a defensive Rocks + Spinner, or offensive SD + Tera Dark sweeper, even outside of Sand.

Alola Sandshrew: God Mon, nothing to say here. Lack of hail damage hurts, but 50% defense is good. If even Cubchoo is able to work this Gen due to Tera Electric Blast, Sandshrew is even better. Still useful outside of Hail, unlike the bear.

Geodude: I disagree with this Mon being bad. Its a discount Onix. Its viability depends on whether Onix is in the Meta or not. Sucker Punch and higher attack already gave it a niche over Onix.

Alolan Dude: God Mon, better if more Steel appear.

Doduo: Even without Jump Kick, extremely good with Tera Fight, Flying or Normal to remove the Rock weakness. This is going to be the premier fast breaker.

Tyrogue: Probably specs Magikarp witj Hydro Pump is better than this.

Magby: Ok drummer. Tera gives more options, for example STAB Mach Punch.

Rhyhorn: Used this last Gen. Mediocre Mon, but not bad, offensive movepool is wide enough. Tera Water + Lightning Rod looks decent.

Cranidos: Another Mon very boosted by Tera. With Scarf Tera Ice, Fire, Ground, Psychic or Rock Head Smash looks viable. RP is harder to use due to low bulk, but even more powerful with Tera. I like this Mon in Tera era.

Shieldon: Don,t see use for this guy either.

Litwick: Trick Room time again.

Inkay: Contrary Tera Fight Super Power, finally.

Timburr: I hate this Mon, never works for me, always for the opponent.

Vullaby: Hopefully it stays this time. Doubt it though.

Pikipek: One of my favorite scarfers in Gen 7. With Tera Rock or Tera Grass, I can see this being even better this Gen.

Jangmo-o: A worse Bagon, which is a worse Axew. Only viable in Monodragon. One niche it has is being immune to Spore with Overcoat. Not Spore from Toedscool though.
 
:pikipek: Skill Link King's Rock if that's not banned? Otherwise, garbage.
It is mostly outclassed by Doduo, but Pikipek has Brave Bird and Fighting coverage in brick break like Doduo but also Skill Link Bullet Seed to OHKO bulky Rock/Ground counters like ... Rhyhorn or Geodude? (or Onix if we get it) which Doduo can't do. It's probably not going to be at the forefront of the meta or anything, since Doduo exists and it can't really touch Wattrel except through Tera, but you can't call it complete garbarge. It can team up with Doduo or Vull to break team's defensive cores, and if Doduo doesn't get Jump Kick it could have a bigger niche.
 
Oddish does look bad... unless Vulpix comes back. All current Chlorophyll users look worse than Oddish, except maybe Deerling.

Cleffa is terrible, but only Magic Guard user. Can have some usage with random Counters (+Sash) and Thunder Waves.
As show in previous trailers, Vulpix is confirmed to be returning and Solosis will also be returning, but in the Indigo Disk.
Screenshot 2023-08-08 183408.pngScreenshot 2023-08-08 183329.png
 
As somebody else has already mentioned, with the introduction of Archaludon, Duraludon :duraludon: is going to become LC. As such, Duraludon is going to rule the tier for all of three seconds before it immediately gets quickbanned for being way way waaaaaay too strong for the tier (It's got 535 BST, for crying out loud, that's 35 more points than freaking Scyther [who has been quickbanned from the moment it got an evolution], on top of the utterly phenomenal Steel/Dragon typing).
 
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Alright, so in the most recent Indigo Disk trailer we learned that ALL the starters are coming to Gen 9. This is crazy news and I'm really excited for it, and I wanted to talk about how these additions might be used in LC.

:bulbasaur: Will only work if sun teams become a thing in LC with Vulpix's arrival. Otherwise, garbage.

:squirtle:Same as Bulbasaur but for rain. Slightly better cause rain is used a lot more than sun at the moment.

:chikorita: Looks bad don't use it.

:totodile: Will definitely be at least D tier, gets good coverage and sheer force, hopefully keeps rock slide from BDSP. Also probably gonna abuse tera.

:treecko: Just what the meta needs, another unburden sweeper. It had so many coverage options in gen 8, from tpunch to iron tail. C tier at least.

:torchic:Speed Boost is great, but probably won't be too good.

:mudkip: Don't know how I feel about this one. Probably bad though.

:turtwig: No.

:chimchar: Move over Crabrawler, there's a new Iron Fist mon in town.

:piplup: Defiant is always nice, but will probably be bad.

:snivy: Um.... Contrary Leaf Storm? Nobody will ever use fomantis ever again lol

:tepig: Slightly worse Growlithe-H. Won't be nearly as good due to no Rock Head but can make use of Thick Fat with Tera Grass maybe?

:litten: I don't see Intimidate mons a lot in this metagame, but could still be pretty good.

:popplio: Looks bad don't use it (purely cause water mons are becoming less and less viable in this tier)

I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on how these mons will affect the meta.
 
Alright, so in the most recent Indigo Disk trailer we learned that ALL the starters are coming to Gen 9. This is crazy news and I'm really excited for it, and I wanted to talk about how these additions might be used in LC.

:bulbasaur: Will only work if sun teams become a thing in LC with Vulpix's arrival. Otherwise, garbage.

:squirtle:Same as Bulbasaur but for rain. Slightly better cause rain is used a lot more than sun at the moment.

:chikorita: Looks bad don't use it.

:totodile: Will definitely be at least D tier, gets good coverage and sheer force, hopefully keeps rock slide from BDSP. Also probably gonna abuse tera.

:treecko: Just what the meta needs, another unburden sweeper. It had so many coverage options in gen 8, from tpunch to iron tail. C tier at least.

:torchic:Speed Boost is great, but probably won't be too good.

:mudkip: Don't know how I feel about this one. Probably bad though.

:turtwig: No.

:chimchar: Move over Crabrawler, there's a new Iron Fist mon in town.

:piplup: Defiant is always nice, but will probably be bad.

:snivy: Um.... Contrary Leaf Storm? Nobody will ever use fomantis ever again lol

:tepig: Slightly worse Growlithe-H. Won't be nearly as good due to no Rock Head but can make use of Thick Fat with Tera Grass maybe?

:litten: I don't see Intimidate mons a lot in this metagame, but could still be pretty good.

:popplio: Looks bad don't use it (purely cause water mons are becoming less and less viable in this tier)

I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on how these mons will affect the meta.
Lower tiers are eating but essentially everything besides snivy, bulbasaur, treecko or torchic isn't ou. And treecko gets in by techncality.

Snivy has contrary leaf storm as well synthesis, so it becomes a very potent sweeper. It'll slot in pretty normally with this metagame cause we already have a good amount of good grass types anyway. No hidden power hurts but its got tera so smh my head i suppose.

Bulbasaur is cracked cause chlorophyll + that stab combo + OH YEAH WHO WANTS TO TERA THE BULBASAUR.
Sun is gonna be banned. Either chloro sweepers or sun setter getting the axe, likely gonna be chloro.

Treecko is an unburden sweeper who kind of is outclassed by shroodle. We'll need to see what its movepool is to see if it gets anything redeeming, but its OU not because its best the unburden sweeper but because it doesn't fit anywhere else.

Speed Boost Torchic has potential as a result of speed boost and also tera-ing for whatever coverage you want. It can actually make a splash in our current metagame which is dominated by grass types and waters (besides the recent rise of shellos) aren't very popular. We'll see, but it has potential to be good.

Everything else is bad unless squirtle gets shell smash at which point its just worse shellder.
 
I haven't played little cup so I might be missing a few things but I do have a few opinions on the current meta:

observation:
Numel and Shellder are down right oppressive at this point, from my POV, its similar to mienfoo where it was on every good team and there was also a mienfoo counter on every team. I personally wasn't a fan of mienfoo being that strong then either but numel and shellder are ridiculous.

reasoning:
:Numel: has (or had) a very exploitable weakness, it folds like a wet tissue when exposed to water. its slow speed and a weakness to earthquake, one of the most common ground type moves used at the time (high horsepower also works for you swsh grookey stans) but now it has the ability to tera into a grass type, negating both of its weaknesses and giving it time to set up its turbo virgin stockpile stacks.
:shellder: is in a similar boat but it was actually a thing you could use when tera didn't exist, but again, still had counterplay. bulky steel typeslike pawniard completely walled it and threatened a KO, now it can tera water or tera fire and terablast to completely nullify its weaknesses.

experimentation:
+2 236+ Atk Tera Water Shellder Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Pawniard: 22-26 (104.7 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 236+ SpA Shellder Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Pawniard: 19-24 (90.4 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
76+ Atk Quaxly Liquidation vs. +2 36 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Tera Fighting Numel: 4-6 (17.3 - 26%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
76+ Atk Quaxly Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Tera Grass Numel: 4-6 (18.1 - 27.2%) -- 1.4% chance to 4HKO

conclusion:
Shellder and Numel are blatantly toxic in this meta game so I bring to the people 2 solutions, Either A: ban numel and shellder because of how oppressive they are, keeping the door open for more pokemon similar to this to rise so we may repeat this process once more as we did with diglett. Or B; ban terastallization, perhaps unban diglett, and allow the meta to shift in a way in which diversity in teams is promoted rather than struck down by a depressed camel and a goofy ahh looking clam
 

Berks

has a Calm Mind
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I haven't played little cup so I might be missing a few things but I do have a few opinions on the current meta:
:pensive:

to not be a one-liner: suspect tests are never bad! but I reckon ten days isn’t long enough to be worth it now that we’re getting a bit of DLC. so getting the DLC mons and giving it at least a week or two should give us a better idea of what direction to go in!
 
As show in previous trailers, Vulpix is confirmed to be returning and Solosis will also be returning, but in the Indigo Disk.
View attachment 541259View attachment 541260
i am unironically ecstatic for solosis, magic gaurd prolly wont be that good since sustain is a bit meh, i mean it does get recover so that could be interesting. regenerator tho, regen t wave with a 95 base spatk sounds really fun lol.
 
I think I have a numel counter. Keyword think. It revolves around one very specific bear. I present cubchoo. While traditionally used as a snow sweeper it can get fast enough to use a decent base 80 attack stat and a shockingly diverse movepool to hurt majority of the tier. To compensate for the bad base 40 speed I gave it a scarf to a) blow it’s frankly very stuffed nose and b) so it gets to 21 speed at level 5 making it able to outspeed non choiced mons . In other words liquidation before it has a chance to Tera and if it does to either fighting or grass read it and click either play rough or ice punch respectively

The set
Cubchoo @ Choice Scarf
Tera:whatever
Level: 5
Jolly Nature
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 76 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 196 Spe
- Ice Punch
- Body Press
- Play Rough
- Liquidation

-Crunch( for dark coverage. Might be used if h. Zorua or the balloon or gothita become hard to deal with)

-Night slash ( same as above)

-Rock slide ( for the fire types and bugs along with other ice types)

-Trailblaze ( for the water types and rock types and ground types)

-X scissor( how? Good for grass and gothita and sandile )

-low kick ( enough to kill pawn)



196 Atk Tera Water Cubchoo Liquidation vs. +2 36 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Numel: 16-24 (69.5 - 104.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

196 Atk Tera Water Cubchoo Liquidation vs. 36 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Numel: 28-40 (121.7 - 173.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

196 Atk Cubchoo Liquidation vs. 36 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Numel: 20-28 (86.9 - 121.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

196 Atk Tera Ice Cubchoo Ice Punch vs. 36 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Voltorb-Hisui: 20-28 (95.2 - 133.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

196 Atk Cubchoo Ice Punch vs. 36 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Voltorb-Hisui: 14-20 (66.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

196 Atk Cubchoo Ice Punch vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Grookey: 24-30 (109 - 136.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

196 Atk Cubchoo Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 164 Def Drifloon: 24-30 (100 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Edit: I haven’t played in a while but based off of community discussions I made the conclusion here .
 
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Tried to qualify in the ladder tour after months of not touching the Tier at all. Needless to say, 2 days (I signed on Saturday) were not enough at all and the maximum Elo I achieved were something like 1430. This is not meta fault, I really should have signed maybe on Thursday instead.

Still, 3 things I found to be broken/uncompetitive:
-Gothita: I always vouched for a Gothita (or Shadow Tag, but Wynaut never was a problem , so I don't care for it) Ban, so this isn't new. This time, when I came back from retirement, I noted how Gothita not only does the same things as always, but is also way more common, there was even a streak in which I faced 6 in a row. It's not even so much for its ability to kill Poison and Fight Mons (though it does contribute) I believe it's unhealthy, but the main reason is Tricking a Scarf than enables some booster to sweep after that (many to choose from: Shellder, Numel, Axew, Pawn, even Chewtle, etc.). Yes, Memento for the most part does that too, but Memento can be punished with a timely switch-in to something like Pawniard or even giga based Competitive Wattrel/Contrary Fomantis. Meanwhile, once Gothita is in, with a few exceptions you are in big trouble. Every Tier, even Doubles has banned Shadow Tag and I believe LC has MORE reasons than other Tiers to do it. And it's about to become even better with Mienfoo in the Tier, since Gothi kills or forces Tera on all poisons (except champion Koffing, who is also coming,and Grimer/Stunky, who don't resist Mienfoo moves) and almost all Flying Mons that want to check Mienfoo.

-Voltorb Hisui. This is like Diglett, but pivots out instead of trapping. Outspeeds everything, easily escapes with Volt Switch chipping possible answers and uses Tera to kill Grounds. Tera Fire Wattrel is the only reliable, long term check I found. Tera is what breaks Voltorb, it would be a fine Mon otherwise. Since Tera is allowed (and I want this to continue) Voltorb shouldn't be.

-Numel. At first I was sceptical about this one, despite reading many posts about it in this very thread. Then, I discovered that LO exists too and the way to stop that one vastly differs from Eviolite one. Many people already talked about this one, so you already know that this Mon sweeps way too easily. Fortunately, this is the one that has the highest odds to become worse with DLC.
 

Coconut

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LC Leader
(Mild Spoilers Ahead)
Hi all,

So we're finally ready to announce what we're doing for our DLC1. Firstly, we're starting by not unbanning anything. Retests might happen when the meta settles a little bit more, but we're not convinced freeing anything will not simply lead to it being banned again. We're also going with a larger ban list to start as well. This will include the following things.

Aipom
Cutiefly
Gligar
Vulpix (Kanto and Alola)
Yanma

Also, I keep receiving questions about a specific dragon type set to be legal in the next DLC. No, we are not freeing her, even for a day or an hour, but we might have something planned in the foundation for the future.

Hope everyone enjoys Teal Mask LC!

Kris because he asked for this.
 
download (3).png


Now that DLC1 is Live and the LC Ladder was Updated to include the new mons, I did a tier list of what I think will impact LC. Now granted, I haven't played any games yet. So take this as a Day 1 Quick Look. Btw, Sinistea is meant to represent Poltchageist
 
View attachment 551497

Now that DLC1 is Live and the LC Ladder was Updated to include the new mons, I did a tier list of what I think will impact LC. Now granted, I haven't played any games yet. So take this as a Day 1 Quick Look. Btw, Sinistea is meant to represent Poltchageist
Did Koffing lose much in the time between last gen and this gen? It was a top threat last gen so I wonder what's different now.
 
Some existential questions to think about

manditory Pokémon:

-how easily droppable are vullaby and mienfoo
-can you drop the previously obligatory poison
-can u afford to drop a dedicate fight/fly check

Remapping the speed tier:

How fast should mienfoo, vullaby, pawniard and koffing be?

trapping abilities:
We have magnemite and goth, can we abuse the Pokémon they trap being gone

Offensive cores with foo and vulla, with tera they can break down their checks, how can we abuse this as hard as possible.
 

BlackKnight_Gawain

PUPL Champion
Some existential questions to think about

manditory Pokémon:

-how easily droppable are vullaby and mienfoo
-can you drop the previously obligatory poison
-can u afford to drop a dedicate fight/fly check

Remapping the speed tier:

How fast should mienfoo, vullaby, pawniard and koffing be?

trapping abilities:
We have magnemite and goth, can we abuse the Pokémon they trap being gone

Offensive cores with foo and vulla, with tera they can break down their checks, how can we abuse this as hard as possible.


1. Jury's still out on this but not loading one or both feels like you're passing up free pizza.

2. Glim is still good and Toed is an inefficient check to t-spikes. Offensive glim builds like rp/scarf also force alternative revenge killing options that force t-spikes removal being integral to a game plan.

3. With the return of better fighting mons (sorry crab), you definitely want more of this. Running more tera ghost as a stopgap is all fun and games until opposing drifloon make you wish you had both fight/fly checks that aren't a tera ghost mon..........

4. 17 speed foo is probably keeping it balanced and scarf forces it to be more balanced by move usage anyway. Using 16 speed vull for being able to check numel is also good. Haven't tried Koffing yet but will revisit this point.

5. I don't know if I rate magnemite as a trapper anyway, given that the only relevant steels are just....tinkatuff. It's a good offensive steel to use on certain builds though, and maybe a little slept on but that was just before we had the return of Big Foo/Timburr. Gothita feels like more of a menace now since being able to enable Vull is great.

6. See above, I think vull is very flexible with tera but special sets break down things better with NP + coverage. I have yet to try foo with tera blast but enough things demand it as is and if you're tera-ing foo it's to boost HJK/CC or as a defensive stopgap.
 
>how droppable are mienfoo and vullaby?

vull feels more droppable in builder due to lack of berry juice and needing eviolite. We also got a bunch of new knock off users because of the TM drop. Foo seems significantly less so because of its defensive backbone to teams and it’s foo. Foo basically goes on whatever.

>can you afford to drop the previous mandatory poison

In terms of glimmet, it’s way WAY too good vs vull to drop the t spike absorber. Also it has enough defense to take on foo and set hazards or chip it. Not to win but definitely to contend. I’d say you’d want to run it anyway as a result of foo being around and koffing is still good

>can you drop your dedicated fight / flying type checks

i think you often don’t want to because if vull gets a speed boost you lose if you’re unprepared while foo seems like you could. Out offensing it isn’t an issue, it’s more that you want the poisons anyway.

I think main issue is going to be Gothita cause it can just truck through checks to the main threats.
 
5. I don't know if I rate magnemite as a trapper anyway, given that the only relevant steels are just....tinkatuff. It's a good offensive steel to use on certain builds though, and maybe a little slept on but that was just before we had the return of Big Foo/Timburr. Gothita feels like more of a menace now since being able to enable Vull is great.
Is Pawniard a joke to you? Like, Magnemite does need Tera Fight for reliability, but it still traps it.
 

BlackKnight_Gawain

PUPL Champion
Is Pawniard a joke to you? Like, Magnemite does need Tera Fight for reliability, but it still traps it.
Yes actually. Pawniard has hard fallen off for me atm, needing to revert back to evio and/or Tera Ghost really sucks when LO Tera Dark was probably keeping its usage rate high the last few weeks. Being forced to tera as mag sucks even more now when there's better abusers (and conversely, much needed tera options to check said abusers) that you want to ideally save it for.
 

Colin

formerly BeardedDrakon
is a Tiering Contributor
LCPL Champion
Pawniard rn def runs Eviolite, but its unique in the Vullaby checks with Sucker Punch. Imo if you run Twave + Sucker + Ihead + rocks you're p decent at making progress while being a decent safety net against certain teras and HO. Tera SD is also decent tho its a bit slow for that, so it needs chip and is more of a backup win condition.
 

BlackKnight_Gawain

PUPL Champion
I'd personally love to see tiering surveys to gauge public perception about the tier right now. What I'd prefer would be:

1. A post LCPL survey for SV slots to assess how they felt about the pre-DLC meta (i.e the 7-10 weeks of this tour) and particularly how they felt about Tera.

2. A second survey for the general public on the current DLC meta — with particular emphasis on how people feel about the big two (Vullaby/Mienfoo) and Tera again. Seeing people go from "these two are definitely broken" to being very divided on one or both is interesting, and I know many people feel strongly about how tera complicates their interaction as opposed to prior generations. I think knowing where people stand on this would be great since organized forum posts are at an all time-low (I cannot be assed to monitor Discord 24/7 to see 2-3 lines of people only half explaining their thoughts) and there are two major LC or LC present tours coming up in seasonal and SCL.
 
I topped ladder and this is my opinion on the meta

:sv/vullaby: :sv/mienfoo: :sv/voltorb-hisui:
THE BIG THREE
(You can expect to see on average around 2 of these on each team)

:mienfoo: is the main "slow" pivot of the tier. With regen and u turn, It can take hits and pivot out to other pokemon whilst staying healthy. Terablast is a new addition to the mon, with tera psychic or ground being preferred to hit poison types (mainly koffing), tho psychic is mostly used for its ability to protect foo from gothita. Otherwise, fake out is still a good option for residual chip, in which case tera fairy is ran for end game foo on foo situations where u should need the edge. Theres a lot to this pokemon however, scarf provides very solid offensive pressure, and im sure exact speed and bulk will be optimized with time.

:vullaby: is kinda cracked, with access to stab knock and brave bird, as well as u turn and weak armour to boost speed, its an incredibly good pokemon at punishing stuff like obvious u turn or other weak physical moves. It typically runs evio, tho boots and oran are good alternate options. Vullaby also benefits a lot from tera, mainly using tera ground to bypass pawn, glimmet and tinkatink. Vullaby is also an incredible set up sweeper with nasty plot, and using the immunity to most prio of tera ghost to sweep through teams.

:voltorb-hisui: is the new cool kid on the block, if you played sv in past metas, you already know most of this pokemons mu, solid speed and crazy stab. It's just easy to plop in and just click volt. This guy is also super bulky fsr lol

SUPPORTING CAST

:sv/pawniard: :sv/glimmet: :sv/tinkatink:

Main vulla answers

:sv/koffing: :sv/foongus: :sv/gothita:

main foo answers

:sv/toedscool: :sv/wattrel: :SV/Foongus:

main voltorb answers

Keep mind "answer" = forces to tera LOL

OTHER

:grookey: :mudbray: :numel: :timburr: :corphish:


AND NOW
THE OFFICIAL DAY 1 2 PAPILLON CERTIFIED GUIDE TO MAKING AN SV TEAM
First, litteraly anything u like

:corphish:

then, add 2/3 big threes

:corphish: :mienfoo: :voltorb:

Add a vullaby, mienfoo and voltorb check ( u can skip some if u have enough soft checks, but this is a basic guide)

:corphish: :mienfoo: :voltorb: :toedscool: :koffing: :pawniard:

Oh wow, a ladder topping team! (click for importables)


TY TY

Weather teams:
They exist
I havent used any so dont ask me about them too much

Hail: use snowshrew, hail good, ask dcae or Colin idk

Sun: it aight, use bellspout and charmander, ask lcenjoyer or starsama idk

sand: exists ask jack


OPINION:
Meta is fun to play for now, building wise its fine. Tera is the only thing I would test, as is this the common element behind anything thats close to broken.



 

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So as we enter more stable meta after DLC 1 I’d like to share my thoughts on a possible tank that can take hits from foo and vulla well and can either support or deal some ok damage in return

I introduce Nosepass,

while incredibly bulky it has low attacking stats but it’s enough to harm regen foo and stop brave bird vulla. It also has a large movepool allowing for some more revenge killer ideas to form with sturdy in mind.
 

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