Fun in the Sun: a UU Sunny Day Discussion

[Midnight.]

Sunny Day teams are made for synergy, Rain teams are meant for sweeping and revenge killing.

Agreed. Although, people shouldn't be thinking too defensive when they think synergy. Sun teams still need to be very offensive when they play, as they need to use momentum to sweep.

The reason Rain Dance outclasses Sunny Day is because the abuser get their stab boosted, and that stab is a much better offensive attack in the metagame.

The other reason Rain Dance outclasses Sunny Day is because Rain Dance gets Electrode as a potential lead. Funnily enough, a Sunny Day team with the sun up messes up a Rain Dance team much easier than vice versa.

Also, there's no Swords Dance on that Tangrowth. This is a Bad Thing.

Not necessarily. Don't get me wrong, I love SD Tangrowth since it is a complete wrecking ball. However it can be a little harder to pull off in this metagame with spikes and priority moves kicking around. Sleep Powder is fine for incapacitating a threat. I use Synthesis to make him a bulkier check to guys like Rhyperior and Torterra. Having Swords Dance on Tangrowth is good, but not having it isn't bad.

 

[PK Gaming]

Electrode learns Sunny Day.

 

[GMLW]

Electrode learns Sunny Day.

But it can't utilize STAB Thunder.

 

[PK Gaming]

But it can't utilize STAB Thunder.

Meh. Most of the time he's better off exploding, not mucking about and staying in to waste time.

 

[Midnight.]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/electrode/moves

Tell me where you see Sunny Day. Pure electric-types barring Raikou and maybe some other anomalies do not learn it.

 

[GMLW]

One Pokemon with Thunder, another with Explosion. Two birds with one stone. I think that's worth the extra turn.

EDIT: Apparently it doesn't matter anymore. =/

 

[yond]

I have been very sucessful with rain dance i don't see electrode being the best choice spike stacking leads are much more valuable. Just because a pokemon outspeeds everything doesnt mean it will ohko everything, and spikes can be very key to getting those ohkos.

I would use the same logic when building a sunny day team.

 

[PK Gaming]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/electrode/moves

Tell me where you see Sunny Day. Pure electric-types barring Raikou and maybe some other anomalies do not learn it.

Oh my, that is my mistake.

 

[shrang]

Sunny Day teams are made for synergy, Rain teams are meant for sweeping and revenge killing.

QFT. Rain teams are pretty much a one-trick pony, although the pony does that one trick extremely well. Sunny Day teams use their synergy for more versatility and more tricks. It can't do the one trick that Rain teams can do as well as Rain teams themselves, Sunny Day teams generally have more tricks up its sleeve, so at least in my opinion, it isn't outclassed by Rain at all.

 

[dbcb]

QFT. Rain teams are pretty much a one-trick pony, although the pony does that one trick extremely well. Sunny Day teams use their synergy for more versatility and more tricks. It can't do the one trick that Rain teams can do as well as Rain teams themselves, Sunny Day teams generally have more tricks up its sleeve, so at least in my opinion, it isn't outclassed by Rain at all.

I agree, SD teams are a lot more unpredictable. Especially when a lot of their abusers can run more than one viable set, which you don't often see in rain outside of ludicolo.


why isn't special arcanine mentioned in the OP?

 

[Midnight.]

Unless I have skipped it, I haven't seen anyone mention SD Exeggutor. I think I may even prefer it to SD Tangrowth to be honest (for the dual STAB, and the fact that Power Whip can be so shaky). I don't like the Smogon analysis set, and would go with:

Exeggutor @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Wood Hammer / Seed Bomb
- Zen Headbutt
- Low Kick / Sleep Powder

I'd nearly call it the equivalent of Ludicolo for sun teams. Zen Headbutt is the main attacking move since Wood Hammer has hefty recoil with Life Orb, and KOs offensive Moltres (the main utility of Rock Slide on Tangrowth) and Calm Chansey (assuming you get a boost). Low Kick destroys Registeel and has a 66.67% chance of landing a OHKO on Steelix. You could run Sleep Powder and keep getting boosts or save yourself from Absol and Drapion.

 

[dbcb]

You know, the biggest problem I have had with Exeggutor is sucker punchers and pursuit

I found this set somewhere (I have no idea where) and it is awesome...

Exeggutor @ Life orb
Chlorophyll
Modest
252 SpA/252 Spd/4 HP

- Substitute
- Solar Beam
- Psychic
- HP Fire/Explosion/Sleep Powder


Sub on the switch and all those sucker punchers are rendered useless. Yes, sub + life orb takes ur health down quickly... but if I sucker puncher comes in you are doomed without doing anything.

 

[Midnight.]

End Fashion used that set way back.

Exeggutor also got a slight mod. I've decided on Substitute for the final slot. It is the best defense against Sucker Punchers and Registeel who will not be OHKO'd and counters with Thunder Wave. With the Life Orb it can take its toll, but the types who switch in on Exeggutor tend to show themselves early on or not at all.

I f*ucking loved his Sunny Day team. It played really well in the Honchkrow / Azumaril dominated period.

 

[dbcb]

yep thats the team

 

[Delko]

Sunny Day Slowbro/ Slowking with Fire Blast/ Flamethrower can quite the suprise, yet very effective (completes the circle of Grass-Fire-Water core).

 

[dbcb]

My reservation in using SD Slowbro is that under the sun, his ability to counter various fire types is shaky.

The special ones (moltres, arcanine, houndoom, mixed blaziken, magmortar, ect) all easily 2hko him, so he can in no way switch in. The best he can do is come in after a kill and threaten with twave (but if you run twave... what do you get rid of? surf? slack off? fire blast?) because the sun neuters surf as well.

 

[SJCrew]

You know, the biggest problem I have had with Exeggutor is sucker punchers and pursuit

I found this set somewhere (I have no idea where) and it is awesome...

Exeggutor @ Life orb
Chlorophyll
Modest
252 SpA/252 Spd/4 HP

- Substitute
- Solar Beam
- Psychic
- HP Fire/Explosion/Sleep Powder


Sub on the switch and all those sucker punchers are rendered useless. Yes, sub + life orb takes ur health down quickly... but if I sucker puncher comes in you are doomed without doing anything.

Doesn't seem very useful to me, since the only Sucker Punchers with enough power to take you are Absol and Spiritomb, and even Spiritomb isn't a given since it might not run any attack EVs or the move at all. Then there's Sleep Powder, which circumvents the situation completely. A vast majority of the time, you're going to want all the offense you can get and if something you can't beat comes in, just switch and come back for another round.

And tbh, Pursuit really isn't that common in UU, whereas it's almost a given in the OU environment.

 

[Delko]

My reservation in using SD Slowbro is that under the sun, his ability to counter various fire types is shaky.

The special ones (moltres, arcanine, houndoom, mixed blaziken, magmortar, ect) all easily 2hko him, so he can in no way switch in. The best he can do is come in after a kill and threaten with twave (but if you run twave... what do you get rid of? surf? slack off? fire blast?) because the sun neuters surf as well.

You can use Slowking since he is more Specialy Bulky. And you don't have to run Surf on Slowking/ Slowbro as fire types are unlikely to switch-in anyway and under Sun most of them are hit by Psychic for almost the same damage (bare Houndoom, ...).

 

[Ekanselttar]

Anything with Sucker Punch makes Eggy sad, not just Absol and Houndoom. Even Dugtrio dues like 60%, which stacks fast with LO damage. And especially if you're using Wood Hammer. IMO Tangrowth is still the best Swords Dancer, especially considering that it's about as physically bulky as Registeel.

 

[SJCrew]

Even Dugtrio dues like 60%

Doesn't sound like an OHKO to me. Sounds like Duggy's gonna die, leaving more time for Eggy to get free kills by smacking everything in the face with his base 125 sp. att, putting stuff to sleep, and exploding. Oh, and watch the sub strategy fail once your opponent knows you have it.

Don't underestimate Eggy's bulk, any sweeper that isn't at 0% health is still useful to me, as far as I'm concerned (I'm pretty notorious for leaving my CB Rhyp in the single digits because my opponent is stingy about letting their walls die; I even won a match with it at 1% and 1 HP, lol).

 

[dbcb]

Doesn't seem very useful to me, since the only Sucker Punchers with enough power to take you are Absol and Spiritomb, and even Spiritomb isn't a given since it might not run any attack EVs or the move at all. Then there's Sleep Powder, which circumvents the situation completely. A vast majority of the time, you're going to want all the offense you can get and if something you can't beat comes in, just switch and come back for another round.

And tbh, Pursuit really isn't that common in UU, whereas it's almost a given in the OU environment.

mixdoom ohko's as well. and sd toxikcroak does 3/4's health so if you have taken any damage at all the sweep is over

and ever time you are forced to switch, that is another turn of sun taken away.

My problem with sleep powder is that there is a good chance somethign is already asleep if you are using jumpluff (or tangrowth or victrebell if you were using that version)... making it a complete waste of a move slot.

 

[shrang]

Wait, why are worried about Sucker Punch when Eggy has the option of putting the Sucker Puncher to sleep?? Sub+LO is always risky because you're going to die way too quickly (If you factor in SR or a layer of Spikes, you'll be ending up with 52% health after one attack). The only Pokemon you should run SubLO on are frail Pokemon like Dugtrio who gets the job done and dies so quickly that it doesn't matter anyway.

 

[SJCrew]

and ever time you are forced to switch, that is another turn of sun taken away.

I'd prefer that to a dead Pokemon or a wasted moveslot to a shitty gimmick.

 

[End Fashion]

Shitty gimmick worked when shitty gimmick was conceived. Shitty gimmick probably hasn't been used by shitty member.