I'm not talking about the swift swim ability, I was talking about the useful swift swimmers. Which isn't exactly that much...
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Fun in the Sun: a UU Sunny Day Discussion
- Thread starter rayquazamaster776
- Start date
As i seee it
Rain's strongest point is that all the swift swimmers also rain from their primary STAB attack being boosted.
Sun's weakness is that the Cholopyll users dont benefit from sun's attack boost unless they use hp fire, and the ones that get the power boost don't get the speed boost.
Narulyg, you have had more experience with sun so i won't question your judgement on the team basics, yours is probably better to mine.
Another question (i know i am spamming them out at the moment);
What do you people think of using rain/sun in a team but not as the main theme?
Rain's strongest point is that all the swift swimmers also rain from their primary STAB attack being boosted.
Sun's weakness is that the Cholopyll users dont benefit from sun's attack boost unless they use hp fire, and the ones that get the power boost don't get the speed boost.
Narulyg, you have had more experience with sun so i won't question your judgement on the team basics, yours is probably better to mine.
Another question (i know i am spamming them out at the moment);
What do you people think of using rain/sun in a team but not as the main theme?
I once battled a guy who used Sunny Day, but only for one Pokemon. He also tried to Poison Jab my Registeel. I swept him with Registeel's Iron Head. I was laughing my ass off.
Anyway, I just made a Sun team, taking the base of Narulyg's team, but changing Specs Typhlosion to Specs Magmortar. It was because Typhlosion depends too much on Eruption, and if he takes damage, he is in trouble. Plus, Magmortar gets Thunderbolt. I just almost swept an entire team with him alone.
Anyway, I just made a Sun team, taking the base of Narulyg's team, but changing Specs Typhlosion to Specs Magmortar. It was because Typhlosion depends too much on Eruption, and if he takes damage, he is in trouble. Plus, Magmortar gets Thunderbolt. I just almost swept an entire team with him alone.
That sort of thing usually only works in Ubers, where rain and sun are both so prevalent they're practically present every match. With that sort of environment, one can have a rain/sun themed team (e.g. - no one runs Thunderbolt in Ubers, it's always Thunder) In UU, I don't think that would be successful.
I played a few games with my Sunny Day team, and although I lost quite a lot of them, one thing sticks in my mind. After looking at the analyses, I decided to try out CM-Sunnybeaming Entei. It works absolutely beautifully. The thing lures in Milotic and bulky Waters like a magnet. Calm Mind up, as they come in, bring in the Sun, then Solarbeam them to oblivion. Why would you use this over Moltres, Typhlosion or any other powerful Fire types?? One move, and one move only. Calm Mind. No fire type apart from Infernape (Who is OU and much prefers Nasty Plot) and the mighty Ho-oh has access to Calm Mind. +1 Flamethrowers in the sun wrecks so many things it's not funny, especially when bulky waters have been lured in and destroyed.
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/ninetales/moves
EDIT: Yeah, it's mostly inferior to Entei. Wow, never thought I'd say that...
Ninetales is utterly outclassed by Entei as far as a CM set goes. 73/100 SDEF is actually worse than 115/75 SDEF and all its other stats are lower across the board (except for SPE which is equal). Ninetales does get Energy Ball, but that doesn't really matter on a set with Solarbeam.
Ninetales can do the Nasty Plot thing though, so it's not completely outclassed.
Ninetales can do the Nasty Plot thing though, so it's not completely outclassed.
Oh. Didn't realise Ninetales had CM. Oh well. The only real problem that Entei is when you meet Flash Fire Pokemon like Arcanine and Houndoom. Having something to lure them out and kill them would be good (Nothing is going to like taking Sun-Flash Fire boosted Flare Blitz's or Fire Blasts)
Why are we comparing Entei and Ninetales? I don't find Ninetales to be outclassed if Hypnosis hits Ninetales can easily sweep through teams. NP is what makes it better then Entei IMO
I'm surprised specs Magmortar did so well, considering its crappy speed. I was pretty hesitant to take the scarf off of Typhlosion with its 100 base. Regarding Eruption, it is a danged fine thing to have. Typhlosion isn't really made to sit and sweep. But any time your opponent is using a non-damaging move (or your poke faints), you can switch in, obliterate something, then head for the hills. Put it this way: My Typhlosion has 327 speed and enough SAtk to OHKO Rhyperior with Eruption, and 2HKO Chansey. And Eruption doesn't miss. Also keep in mind that at 75% HP (1 SR switch-in) Eruption's BP is 112.5, which isn't far off of Fire Blast, and is more than Fire Blast's average damage, factoring in misses.
Also, I was totally going to put a CM Sunnybeam Entei onto my team to replace Gardevoir, but pretty much everything on my team's got solarbeam and a fire attack already, and I need Gardevoir in case of rain. Entei definitely has potential, though, and I can see a mixed set once it can legally have Flare Blitz being trouble.
Edit: I also want to add that if you're making a Sunny Day team, use the Tangrowth set I'm using (which might be the standard, I forget). That sucker can take physical hits like nobody's business and hit back twice as hard.
Also, I was totally going to put a CM Sunnybeam Entei onto my team to replace Gardevoir, but pretty much everything on my team's got solarbeam and a fire attack already, and I need Gardevoir in case of rain. Entei definitely has potential, though, and I can see a mixed set once it can legally have Flare Blitz being trouble.
Edit: I also want to add that if you're making a Sunny Day team, use the Tangrowth set I'm using (which might be the standard, I forget). That sucker can take physical hits like nobody's business and hit back twice as hard.
I know, but if a Flash Fire or other bulky Pokemon that resists Fire switches in, Typhlosion now has a 75 BP Eruption. Magmortar will have the same HP, but a much more powerful attack. I'm not saying Typhlosion with Erruption is bad; I actually think it's an insane Pokemon with sun support. It's just that I don't like relying on not getting hurt. Especially with a team without Rapid Spin support like yours (although I replaced Gardevoir with Claydol, so now it does).
To each his own, I guess. I'm definitely going to have to try Magmortar sometime. How's Claydol/the rest of the team working out for you?
I'm eager to explore further possibilities with Sunny Day, as it's a pretty fun playstyle. Has anyone tried out Shiftree, Tropius, and Sunflora?
I'm eager to explore further possibilities with Sunny Day, as it's a pretty fun playstyle. Has anyone tried out Shiftree, Tropius, and Sunflora?
The team works pretty well. Exeguttor completely annihilates the opponent, as does Tangrowth. After that, I can let Moltres clean up. Magmortar just nails them with Specs and sun-boosted Fire Blasts. Claydol is a good, sturdy Rapid Spinner who can set up sun, although Donphan gives him competition. I still like Claydol better.
I'm trying to decide if I should replace Ambipom with Jumpluff. Jumpluff can take advantage of the sun, but Ambipom always prevents rocks with Taunt, while Sleep Powder misses a fourth of the time.
Shiftry is a great sweeper, and it can go either physical or special (I prefer special). It is outclassed by Victreebell a bit though. Tropius is a little shaky. It does get Swords Dance, but its Attack isn't so good without a boost. Solar Power is unusable, since its Speed sucks without it. Tropius is all-around outclassed by Tangrowth. I would never use Sunflora. Its Defense is crap, and it's completely and totally outclassed by Exeggutor. Like Tropius, Solar Power is unusable, because its Speed is CRAP.
I'm trying to decide if I should replace Ambipom with Jumpluff. Jumpluff can take advantage of the sun, but Ambipom always prevents rocks with Taunt, while Sleep Powder misses a fourth of the time.
Shiftry is a great sweeper, and it can go either physical or special (I prefer special). It is outclassed by Victreebell a bit though. Tropius is a little shaky. It does get Swords Dance, but its Attack isn't so good without a boost. Solar Power is unusable, since its Speed sucks without it. Tropius is all-around outclassed by Tangrowth. I would never use Sunflora. Its Defense is crap, and it's completely and totally outclassed by Exeggutor. Like Tropius, Solar Power is unusable, because its Speed is CRAP.
Typhlosion can use Stealth Rock to his advantage though, as after 3 switch-ins, he can then abuse Blaze and Fire Blast things with that.
On the topic of Sunflora, I have used it for kicks. I can tell you though, it is not outclassed by Exeggutor simply because she plays very differently to Exeggutor. Solar Power is what differentiates her from Exeggutor. Solar Power boosted Specs Solarbeam hits so hard it's not funny (It can 2HKO Chansey). Just aim to make her as bulky as possible (Stuff like Modest 252 HP/252 SpA/4 Def or something like that).
On the topic of Sunflora, I have used it for kicks. I can tell you though, it is not outclassed by Exeggutor simply because she plays very differently to Exeggutor. Solar Power is what differentiates her from Exeggutor. Solar Power boosted Specs Solarbeam hits so hard it's not funny (It can 2HKO Chansey). Just aim to make her as bulky as possible (Stuff like Modest 252 HP/252 SpA/4 Def or something like that).
I'd like to point out that SD Moltres is excellent even without being placed on a SD team. I use a set like this:
Moltres @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 40 HP/216 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Roost / Morning Sun (for reliability Roost is better)
- Solarbeam
- Sunny Day
---
This functions as a regular LO Moltres but can fuck up Bulky waters and better yet, Rain.
I could imagine using this in tandem with another Sunny Day abuser like Shiftry for a nice SD duo.
Moltres @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 40 HP/216 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Roost / Morning Sun (for reliability Roost is better)
- Solarbeam
- Sunny Day
---
This functions as a regular LO Moltres but can fuck up Bulky waters and better yet, Rain.
I could imagine using this in tandem with another Sunny Day abuser like Shiftry for a nice SD duo.
CM Sunnybeamer Entei can actually go really well with that set provided you can eliminate Flash Fire Pokemon. It can act like a loophole in the species clause much like Rayquaza and Salamence does in Ubers. Entei can lure in bulky waters and eliminate them or weaken them enough, then Moltres comes in a cleans up.
You could run a Trick Room-Sunny Day team. Sunflora would be great in it but also things as Eruption Camerupt.
Hm, that gives me an idea for an Ubers team...
I did try to run a trick room sunny day team. It's not very good. Sure; you've got ridiculous camerupt and sunflora (growth+Solar power+life orb is crazy) but past that there aren't a whole lot of useful options; combine that with the fact that very few walls can learn both sunny day and trick room and the fact that it's difficult to set both up, and you've got one hell of a difficult team to run.
Sunny Day teams are made for synergy, Rain teams are meant for sweeping and revenge killing.
Sunny Day teams are meant for synergy b/c its pretty much required each teammate supports the others in order to work. This means have a Flash Fire type like Ninetails or Houndoom with Solar Beam. This means have an EQ resist or Immune Pokemon like Jumpluff or Tangrowth, and this means have a Fast sweeper to make proper use of the Sun like Scarf Typhlosion or Life Orb Exeggutor.
B/c of your use Flying/Fire types, pack a Hitmontop... Why? because it packs more uses than Rapid Spin... Intimidate, Close Combat for Chansey which handles your Special Sweepers like Typhlosion, resists Rock, and Bug Attacks and has a strong SpD.
So Synergy =
Ambipom: Fake-out, U-turn, Taunt, Sunny Day
Breaks sash, prevents Spikes, Uses Sunny Day fast, and U-turns out.
Houndoom: Flash Fire- Solar Beam, Fire Blast, Nasty Plot / Sucker Punch, Dark Pulse
*Chosen to be able to switch in on Psychic Attacks, and hit Psychic types like Uxie and Mespirit harder
Hitmontop: Intimidate - Rapid Spin, Close Combat, Foresight, Stone Edge
*Can take Bug, and Rock attacks. Intimidate makes a threat less of a threat, and Close Combat deals with Chansey and walls like Regirock.
Scarf Typhlosion: Eruption, Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Hidden Power Rock
Next you need a Bulky Water Hitter. And one that can benefit from your team, while abusing the Sun. And perhaps set it up as well...
Tangrowth: Sleep Powder, Power Whip, Earthquake, Rock Slide
Draws in Fire Attacks for Houndoom.
Uxie: Stealth Rock, U-turn, Reflect, Sunny Day
Entry Hazard, Screen help, Sunny Day,
Sunny Day teams are meant for synergy b/c its pretty much required each teammate supports the others in order to work. This means have a Flash Fire type like Ninetails or Houndoom with Solar Beam. This means have an EQ resist or Immune Pokemon like Jumpluff or Tangrowth, and this means have a Fast sweeper to make proper use of the Sun like Scarf Typhlosion or Life Orb Exeggutor.
B/c of your use Flying/Fire types, pack a Hitmontop... Why? because it packs more uses than Rapid Spin... Intimidate, Close Combat for Chansey which handles your Special Sweepers like Typhlosion, resists Rock, and Bug Attacks and has a strong SpD.
So Synergy =
Ambipom: Fake-out, U-turn, Taunt, Sunny Day
Breaks sash, prevents Spikes, Uses Sunny Day fast, and U-turns out.
Houndoom: Flash Fire- Solar Beam, Fire Blast, Nasty Plot / Sucker Punch, Dark Pulse
*Chosen to be able to switch in on Psychic Attacks, and hit Psychic types like Uxie and Mespirit harder
Hitmontop: Intimidate - Rapid Spin, Close Combat, Foresight, Stone Edge
*Can take Bug, and Rock attacks. Intimidate makes a threat less of a threat, and Close Combat deals with Chansey and walls like Regirock.
Scarf Typhlosion: Eruption, Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Hidden Power Rock
Next you need a Bulky Water Hitter. And one that can benefit from your team, while abusing the Sun. And perhaps set it up as well...
Tangrowth: Sleep Powder, Power Whip, Earthquake, Rock Slide
Draws in Fire Attacks for Houndoom.
Uxie: Stealth Rock, U-turn, Reflect, Sunny Day
Entry Hazard, Screen help, Sunny Day,
That example is really kind of meh. There's really no reason you need a spinner on a Sunny Day team, even if you're using Moltres. Only two sunsetters kind of sucks, especially when one of them is basically a suicide lead. Also, there's no Swords Dance on that Tangrowth. This is a Bad Thing.