Fun in the Sun: a UU Sunny Day Discussion

[rayquazamaster776]

Sunny Day has been considered the "worst" weather condition since the 4th Generation's infancy, due to factors such as Tyranitar, Abomosnow, Heatran, etc. However, in UU, all that changes. I have experienced firsthand just how devastating this type of team can be, and I look forward to promoting discussion, and, in time, usage of this deadly genre of team.

Current Set List:

Uxie @ Heat Rock
Thunder Wave
Sunny Day
Stealth Rock
U-Turn

Jumpluff @ Heat Rock
Sunny Day
Encore
U-Turn
Sleep Powder

Typhlosion @ Choice Scarf
Eruption
Overheat/Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Focus Punch
Filler

Scarf Typhlosion has always been a deadly offensive force, but it is even more so in Sun. Eruption 2KOs almost everything, even resists that aren't extremely bulky. If you were to ask me what UU Sun has over NU Sun, this is probably the first answer I'd give.

Rhyperior @ Heat Rock
EQ
Sunny Day
Fire Punch
Stone Edge

Rhyperior is best in Sand, but he is still a useful and much-needed physical attacker in Sun, and appreciates having a strong Fire Punch, as well as taking less damage from Water-types. He also is useful against enemy Fire-types.

Arcanine @ Heat Rock
Flash Fire
Sunny Day
Flare Blitz
Extremespeed/Filler
Morning Sun

Flash Fire is essential to Sunny Day teams in case opponent Fire-type starts running through your team. HGSS only sweetened the deal, giving Arcanine Morning Sun, which allows it to last a while and maybe even set up Sun twice, as well as being able to safely use a deadly Sun-boosted Flare Blitz.

Moltres @ Heat Rock/Life Orb
Flamethrower
HP Rock/Solarbeam
Morning Sun
Sunny Day

Claydol @ Heat Rock
Rapid Spin
Sunny Day
EQ/Earth Power
Stealth Rock/Explosion/Shadow Ball

Donphan @ Heat Rock
Rapid Spin
EQ
Sunny Day
Stone Edge

Exeggutor @ Life Orb
Solarbeam
HP Fire
Explosion
Psychic

Tangrowth @ Life Orb
Power Whip
EQ
HP Fire
AncientPower/Sleep Powder
OO: Swords Dance, Rock Slide, Solarbeam, Leaf Storm, Synthesis, HP Ice

Victreebel @ Life Orb
Leaf Blade
Weather Ball
Sucker Punch
HP Ice
OO: Swords Dance, Sludge Bomb, HP Fire, Synthesis, Solarbeam


Shiftry @ Life Orb
Swords Dance
Seed Bomb
Sucker Punch
Explosion
OO: Dark Pulse, Nasty Plot, Solarbeam, Low Kick, HP Fire

Houndoom @ Life Orb
Nasty Plot
HP Fighting
Flamethrower
Dark Pulse

Sample Sunny Day Team:
Jumpluff @ Heat Rock
Jolly
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed
Sunny Day
Encore
Sleep Powder
U-Turn

Regirock @ Heat Rock
Careful
252 HP/36 Atk/220 SpDef
Sunny Day
Stone Edge
Explosion
Stealth Rock

Donphan @ Heat Rock
Adamant
252 HP/4 Def/252 SpDef
Sunny Day
EQ
Assurance
Rapid Spin

Moltres @ Life Orb
Timid
4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Speed
Morning Sun
Fire Blast
Solarbeam
HP Rock

Shiftry @ Life Orb
Modest
4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Speed
Nasty Plot
Dark Pulse
HP Fire

Victreebel @ Life Orb
Lonely
252 Atk/4 SpAtk/252 Speed
Weather Ball
Swords Dance
Sucker Punch
Leaf Blade

Try Sunny Day out; you won't be dissapointed! Also, please post your own thoughts on this unexpected but powerful type of team.

 

[YaM]

The main reason why Sun is not so "good" because the abusers 1. Don't get their STAB boosted (Chlorophyll Pokemon) or 2. Don't get their Speed boosted (Fire Types), unlike Rain.

I don't like the idea of Scarf Typhlo in the Sun - you can't stop SR or Spikes being put down with Uxie, thus Typhlo likely won't be coming in at full HP - at 75%, Eruption's Base Power is about 113, lower than Fire Blast, and Typhlosion is stuck at using one move. Furthermore, ScarfTyphlo doesn't have Priority, so it is going to fall victim to the large amount of Priority in the UU tier.

Don't assume that everyone knows about the Chlorophyll Sweepers. Tangrowth can be an awesome Mixed attacker with Power Whip/HP Fire/Earthquake/Sleep Powder or it could go fully Physical with Swords Dance/Power Whip/Earthquake/Rock Slide. It is also awesomely bulky on the physical side with Base 100 HP and 125 Def. There is also an option to run Synthesis for recovering 2/3 of health in sun.

Exeggutor, with base 125 SpA has the highest Special Attack of all Chlorophyll Pokemon, learning Solarbeam and has a decent secondary STAB attack in Psychic. Hidden Power Fire is recommended as it is boosted in Sun, and Exeggutor is notorious for being able to go out with a bang, with Explosion, taking out Chansey which otherwise walls it. Like Tangrowth, it also learns Synthesis and Sleep Powder.

Victreebel is another great mixed attacker in the Sun, abusing its 105 Base Attack and 100 Base Special Attack. It can run Swords Dance/Leaf Blade/Sucker Punch/Weather Ball. Swords Dance boosts its Attack. Leaf Blade is STAB and Victreebel gets Sucker Punch which is an extremely useful priority to combat other priority users or smack something faster when Sun isn't up. Weather Ball has the equivalent power of 150BP in Sun and hits other Grass Types super-effectively.

There's also Shiftry, who can learn Nasty Plot or Swords Dance, and gets Explosion and STAB on Sucker Punch. Jumpluff is also awesome as Sun Setup, getting off a very fast sleep, and gets Encore and U-Turn as well.


Often the Chlorophyll Abusers will run the Grass + Fire attacking combo, which is very good except that it doesn't hurt Fire Types or Dragon Types too badly. Which is why Sunny Day teams must prepare for opposing Fire Types and Altaria. A Flash Fire Pokemon will help, but Moltres' Air Slash, Houndoom's Dark Pulse, and Arcanine's Extremespeed will still hurt pretty badly.

P.S. Ambipom is a good Sun lead with a fast Taunt to stop entry Hazards, while a bulky Rapid Spinner like Claydol will also relieve the pain your Fire types face.

 

[shrang]

If you want to use Typhlosion, I'd recommend the SubBlaze set (Sunny Day/Sub/Fire Blast/Solarbeam, item: Petaya Berry). Bring him in late game when those annoying Azumarill and friends are dead and go to town with Petaya, Sun, Blaze and STAB boosted Fire Blasts around equivalent to a SpecsKyogre's Water Spout. Since UU lacks T-Tar, Hippowdon and Abomasnow, Solarbeam is actually quite viable to kill the bulky waters (Milotic).

 

[WigglyWigglytuff]

Plus a good rapid spinner would be torkoal for that team, or you could lead with Phlosion

 

[Adonzo]

Plus a good rapid spinner would be torkoal for that team, or you could lead with Phlosion

Even in the sun, Torkoal still has one huge flaw - he's a defensive fire-type. Fire is primarily an offensive typing, and with Torkoal being one of the slowest pokes in the game and having mediocre attacking stats, he can't put it to good use. On the defensive side, fire is abysmal thanks to weaknesses to ground, rock, and water - all common attacking types, while water has the advantage of often hitting on his weaker special side. The final nail in the coffin is that he's a spinner who's weak to stealth rock and without reliable recovery.

Just because its a Sunny Day team doesn't mean you have to force yourself to use mediocre Grass / Fire types. If you really want a spinner, stick with guys like Donphan or Hitmontop.

EDIT: could have sworn top could learn the elemental punches...

 

[iliketurkeybacon]

Just because its a Sunny Day team doesn't mean you have to force yourself to use mediocre Grass / Fire types. If you really want a spinner, stick with guys like Donphan or Hitmontop.

EDIT: could have sworn top could learn the elemental punches...

I definitely agree, Donphan is a pretty good spinner on a Sunny Day team since his Ice and Grass weaknesses give Fire-types a free switch, and the sun helps out his Water weakness. Obviously, he won't want to take boosted Fire attacks, but I think the sun (and teammates that benefit from it) helps him more than it hurts. And only Hitmonchan gets the elemental punches out of the Tyrogue evolutions, I guess because of the boxing gloves? ;)

Also, Moltres is a great sweeper on a Sunny Day team (and pretty common too, I'm surprised no one mentioned it before). Both spinners mentioned work well with it, with Hitmontop probably being the best though. They both resist Rock, and Hitmontop can take Electric and Water attacks well with its high Special Defense. Donphan is obviously immune to Electric, and if the sun is up, it can take some weaker Water attacks, but it has no business staying in on bulky waters, who Moltres handles well with Solarbeam. The most common (only?) Sunny Day set for Moltres is Sunny Day/Fire Blast/Solarbeam/Roost, usually with a Modest nature and Life Orb. It beats the typical UU Water types like Milotic and Blastoise easily, you pretty much need a Chansey or Flash Fire Pokemon in good health to stall it, or a faster Pokemon who can OHKO first.

 

[YaM]

Oops, I missed out Moltres. Morning Sun > Roost for Moltres, and if you have Sun support already, Air Slash is a very good STAB, but I would prefer HP Rock for Fire Types and Altaria...

 

[iliketurkeybacon]

Oops, I missed out Moltres. Morning Sun > Roost for Moltres, and if you have Sun support already, Air Slash is a very good STAB, but I would prefer HP Rock for Fire Types and Altaria...

Yeah I forgot about Morning Sun, but Roost might not be a bad idea, even in the sun. The only things that can OHKO Moltres with Earthquake while it Roosts are slower, and as far as I know, can all be OHKOed by Fire Blast in the sun or Solarbeam. Roost along with Pressure allows Moltres to stall out the PP of Stone Edge, which is by far the most threatening attack to it. I agree that HP Rock would be the best move if something else sets up the sun, but I would argue that Moltres is the best Pokemon to use Sunny Day in the tier, as it has the best defenses and Special Attack of any UU Fire-type, and Solarbeam allows it to beat Water-types on its own. Arcanine would be another good Pokemon to set up Sunny Day, but the other common Fire-types in UU have low defensive stats and no recovery, and would be much better suited to having someone else set up Sunny Day (Blaziken and Houndoom). Another obvious thing I missed- Heat Rock is a good item for the set.

 

[HellsHunter]

Sunny Day is very good in UU, it just demolishes unprepared teams. And a lot of teams can't handle my powerful Fire and Grass assaults =p A Sunny Day sweeper that hasn't been mentioned yet is Victreebel. He's a bit underrated, I suppose. His only flaw is being walled by Chansey, Registeel and other Special sponges. He usually softens up my opponent's defenses, so I can finish them of with my other sweepers.

Another thing that I like at Sunny Day teams is the (for me) higher number of really bulky Pokémon, because they need to set Sunny Day up the entire match. Those bulky guys also give something to fall back on in tough situations.

Conclusion: Sunny Day is awesome if you can keep momentum. They also need a lot of prediction against Rain teams, which is pretty fun imo.

 

[rayquazamaster776]

Thank you everyone for your positive feedback! I have added many more sets to the OP, and will try to add comments for them ASAP. I will also add a sample team: let me know if you have any ideas for it.

 

[petrie911]

Sunflora is kind of fun. Specs+Solar Power Solarbeam 2HKO's Chansey, and I believe it can OHKO less specially defensive Uxie and Umbreon. Which is just awesome. A Life Orb set could work, but you might want Synthesis for that one. Sunflora's a bit hard to get in, but it hits absurdly hard.

You'll generally want to run enough speed to outrun base 50s, so you can get that 2HKO on Chansey before it recovers and pick off weakened Registeel and such.

 

[iliketurkeybacon]

Thank you everyone for your positive feedback! I have added many more sets to the OP, and will try to add comments for them ASAP. I will also add a sample team: let me know if you have any ideas for it.

Thanks for adding Moltres, but could you put SolarBeam on the set when you get a chance? It's definitely required to beat Water-types, and Air Slash only hits Dragon and Fire-types harder than Fire Blast and SolarBeam would. HP Rock hits Fire-types and Altaria (the only UU Dragon-type) harder than Air Slash, so I suggest slashing it behind Morning Sun or Sunny Day and leaving Air Slash off the set.

Edit: I'd also suggest SolarBeam on Houndoom's set, as it does double the damage Dark Pulse does against Water-types, and it hits every target of HP Fighting, with the exception of Houndoom, significantly harder. HP Flying is also a viable option (it's suggested on the Smogon analysis), but it's only better than HP Fighting against Poliwrath, Hariyama (Thick Fat versions could be a problem for Houndoom), and Blaziken, who can't survive a boosted Fire Blast, so it probably isn't worth a mention.

 

[shrang]

Sunny Day is very good in UU, it just demolishes unprepared teams. And a lot of teams can't handle my powerful Fire and Grass assaults =p A Sunny Day sweeper that hasn't been mentioned yet is Victreebel. He's a bit underrated, I suppose. His only flaw is being walled by Chansey, Registeel and other Special sponges. He usually softens up my opponent's defenses, so I can finish them of with my other sweepers

Victreebel shouldn't be walled by Chansey at all if you run the Swords Dance set. SD/Leaf Blade/Sucker Punch/HP Fire or Weather Ball is just a monster under the sun.

Speaking of Sun teams, it is actually really fun to go up against Rain teams. You might think that the Rain team would absolutely decimate the Sun team, but that's far from the truth. Whoever has the weather on their side pretty much wins. If you have a sponge to soak up the hard hitting Rain sweeper (Hariyama, perhaps), and bring the Sun back in, the momentum does a complete 180 degree shift and you'll end up sweeping their team.

 

[YaM]

I disagree with a lot of the edited OP's sets. IMO Heat Rock is a must
on every non sun sweeper so Uxie and Donphan need to be given Heat Rock and Sunny Day.

I think for the Chlorophyll Sweepers, many of them have the potential to go mixed or physical or special so I suggest leaving all useful moves in a list for those pokemon with mixed potential. Also, whoever said Vic can be walled by Chansey has not read my first post here.

Tangrowth: Swords Dance, Power Whip, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Solarbeam, Leaf Storm, HP Fire, Ancientpower, HP Ice, Synthesis, Sleep Powder

Victreebel: Swords Dance, Leaf Blade, Sucker Punch, Return, Solarbeam, Weather Ball, HP Rock, HP Ice, Leaf Storm, Sludge Bomb, Sleep Powder, Synthesis

Shiftry: Swords Dance, Sucker Punch, Low Kick, Seed Bomb, Explosion, Nasty Plot, Dark Pulse, Solarbeam, Leaf Storm, HP Fire, Synthesis



EDIT: Sunflora rapes, but is so slow... What do you guys think is the biggest threat to sun? In my battles the biggest single threat is a defensively EV'ed Altaria running the Dragon Dance and Roost, if Jumpluff is dead and can't Encore it... also, I've got a Sun team... want to use it in the OP?
Setup: Ambipom/Regirock/Uxie
Sweepers: Tangrowth/Victreebel/Arcanine

 

[rayquazamaster776]

I disagree with a lot of the edited OP's sets. IMO Heat Rock is a must
on every non sun sweeper so Uxie and Donphan need to be given Heat Rock and Sunny Day.

I think for the Chlorophyll Sweepers, many of them have the potential to go mixed or physical or special so I suggest leaving all useful moves in a list for those pokemon with mixed potential. Also, whoever said Vic can be walled by Chansey has not read my first post here.

Tangrowth: Swords Dance, Power Whip, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Solarbeam, Leaf Storm, HP Fire, Ancientpower, HP Ice, Synthesis, Sleep Powder

Victreebel: Swords Dance, Leaf Blade, Sucker Punch, Return, Solarbeam, Weather Ball, HP Rock, HP Ice, Leaf Storm, Sludge Bomb, Sleep Powder, Synthesis

Shiftry: Swords Dance, Sucker Punch, Low Kick, Seed Bomb, Explosion, Nasty Plot, Dark Pulse, Solarbeam, Leaf Storm, HP Fire, Synthesis



EDIT: Sunflora rapes, but is so slow... What do you guys think is the biggest threat to sun? In my battles the biggest single threat is a defensively EV'ed Altaria running the Dragon Dance and Roost, if Jumpluff is dead and can't Encore it... also, I've got a Sun team... want to use it in the OP?
Setup: Ambipom/Regirock/Uxie
Sweepers: Tangrowth/Victreebel/Arcanine

Added Other Options to a few Pokemon, what sets do the Pokemon in your team use? (don't need every move and EV, just say something like Tangrowth: Mixed, etc.)

 

[YaM]

Jumpluff: Sunny Day/Encore/U-Turn/Sleep Powder
Uxie: Sunny Day/Zen Headbutt/Heal Bell/U-Turn
Regirock: Stone Edge/Sunny Day/Toxic/Stealth Rock
Flash Fire Arca9: Fire Blast/Solarbeam/HP Rock/Morning Sun
Physical SD Tangrowth with Power Whip/Earthquake/Rock Slide
Mixed "VictoryBell" with SD/Weather Ball/Sucker Punch/Leaf Blade

sorry for the lead mix-up I thought Jump was Ambi, Ambi's my rain lead

Special Arcanine is for the surprise factor, also that my team doesn't have a spinner so I don't run Moltres

 

[Leman]

I've found Moltres to be borderline broken in sun. Fire Blast is ridiculously strong. Basically whenever it comes in, people have to sacrifice something to bring in a revenge killer, and then I can just switch it out and bring it again later to guarantee another KO. Even Chansey is 2HKO'd with SR. I'd say that its pretty much necessary on any Sun team.

 

[rayquazamaster776]

I've found Moltres to be borderline broken in sun. Fire Blast is ridiculously strong. Basically whenever it comes in, people have to sacrifice something to bring in a revenge killer, and then I can just switch it out and bring it again later to guarantee another KO. Even Chansey is 2HKO'd with SR. I'd say that its pretty much necessary on any Sun team.

Just make sure to use Donphan or Claydol with it, as SR takes a huge toll on Moltres.

 

[MagicMaster87]

I haven't used a Sun team for a while, but I find it funny how one of the best counters for much of a Sun team is also one of its abusers: Jumpluff. Any set that runs Encore can switch in on all of the Grass-types and Sun setuppers with almost guaranteed safety (they will usually open with a setup move or a Grass-type attack, and thanks to Chlorophyll Jumpluff outspeeds them all), Encore them, then Sleep Powder/Stun Spore the switch-in and U-Turn to an appropriate counter to whatever Pokemon is out.

 

[End Fashion]

Sunny Day is, and always will be, better in 2v2 games. It just works far better that way. Ouside of that, UU standard is probably where it shines best. I run a sunny day team 95% of the time, and over half that time is spent building haha.

Just a couple of things to add:
- IMO Explosion > Toxic on Regirock. In desperate times it can get a sweeper in for free, and can take something out in the process. Toxic just beats around the bush too much.

- Victreebel also has access to Growth, making it a very proficient special sweeper. Weather Ball/HP Ice/Solarbeam has great coverage in UU.

- Flash Fire is not "essential." In most cases Intimidate is more useful for switching into the likes of Honchkrow.

- Substitute is an option on Exeggutor in UU, since there are more Pursuiters and Sucker Punchers. It also makes Chansey that bit more useless if it comes in.

This is my team, which has worked better for me than any other team I ever made: http://teamuber.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7161 (sorry for the off-site link, my Smogon post is outdated I think).

The on-site link is in my sig.

 

[Thorns]

ok i have been playing with sun a lot lately, and so has class. we're using a team that features agility moltres, but we've found some real problems with using the supposedly anti-metagame sun. the team is uxie/typhlosion/shiftry/exeggutor/dugtrio/moltres so you understand what I'm about to say

- rain teams, if we're against another uxie lead we're boned
- cresselia, but cresselia is gay to most teams
- kabutops, the only way we can beat this is switching exeggutor in on an aqua jet and praying stone edge doesn't ko

and these three things are basically middle fingers to most sun teams, so if you wanna win you gotta find a way to beat those

on a happier note, our team curbstomps almost everything else

 

[YaM]

Hey Thorn, your team lacks a Spinner nor a Taunting lead to stop SR.

Also, which specific pokemon does Dugtrio trap and kill? Chansey?

NP Shiftry has been OHKOing Cresses for me but your team is already so Specially Oriented..

 

[shrang]

ok i have been playing with sun a lot lately, and so has class. we're using a team that features agility moltres, but we've found some real problems with using the supposedly anti-metagame sun. the team is uxie/typhlosion/shiftry/exeggutor/dugtrio/moltres so you understand what I'm about to say

- rain teams, if we're against another uxie lead we're boned
- cresselia, but cresselia is gay to most teams
- kabutops, the only way we can beat this is switching exeggutor in on an aqua jet and praying stone edge doesn't ko

and these three things are basically middle fingers to most sun teams, so if you wanna win you gotta find a way to beat those

on a happier note, our team curbstomps almost everything else

A Cresselia of your own can be a sort of an insurance against Kabutops, as it should survive an unboosted Waterfall in the Rain and set up the Sun (Don't switch it in to get 2HKO'd of course). With the weather back on your side, a rain team gets completely raped by the Sunny Day team (Just make sure you don't let the Rain start falling again, otherwise you'll get boned easily).

 

[EvilMario]

A Cresselia of your own can be a sort of an insurance against Kabutops, as it should survive an unboosted Waterfall in the Rain and set up the Sun (Don't switch it in to get 2HKO'd of course). With the weather back on your side, a rain team gets completely raped by the Sunny Day team (Just make sure you don't let the Rain start falling again, otherwise you'll get boned easily).

Hilariously enough, Cresselia won't even be OHKO by a +2 Adamant 252 EV Kabutops Life Orb Waterfall in the rain , without SR support (often absent on Rain Dance teams). Rolling 73.2% - 86.5% on a 252 HP/252 Def positive nature variant. Even the unheard of Aqua Tail Kabutops only rolls 82% - 96.8%. This all means of course, she can paralyze unboosted Kabutops without fear, and setup Sunny Day/stall out the Rain. Just imagine if it's a Screener as well. Cresselia's defenses are pretty ridiculous. It's unlikely Kabutops will be setting up its own Rain though, so Cresselia will likely be coming in on a +2 Kabutops. Keep in mind Aqua Jet is still a common move for Kabutops, and he will likely be able to dispatch Cresselia.

 

[-FL-]

That pretty much proves Cresselia is not a good switch on Kabutops, with SR support it's almost a certain OHKO. If for some good reason you don't have it on your side, Aqua Jet should easily net the kill.

I think it would be safer to bring in something like Tangrowth to set the sunlight in front of Kabutops, as he's not weak to any of his attacks. However, a +2 Waterfall in the rain does 43.8% - 51.7% to max/max Tangrowth according to Smogon's Damage Calc. Meaning that you'll have to sacrific something so that your revenge killer can come without harm.

So yeah, Kabutops is pretty deadly against Sun teams in UU even with Cresselia around here now. Something like Reflect Uxie or the same Cresselia could make you stall out the rain or replace it with your sunshine without being KOd by a giant Waterfall.