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Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer: Monotype Edition
- Thread starter scpinion
- Start date
How come Ludicolo and Volcanion aren't used more on mono Water?
Ludicolo was really never used in Monotype even back in ORAS Swift Swim had better options. Also in USM Monotype fully offensive Swift Swim is not as viable so often times even old powerhouses like Kingdra aren't used on Rain is the current metagame.
Volcanion still has its niche being able to take on Grass-types with its Fire Blast and Fairy-types with Sludge Wave and Earth Power. However in USM it's just very hard to fit on teams and often times Greninja and Keldeo are prefered due them being able to be useful in most matchups.
Yeah but I do like Ludicolo's neutrality to Electric and Grass, and he's able to deal with Grass types with Ice Beam. I don't know, I had him on my first ever monotype team, being mono Water (Or at least I think it was?), and he was pretty good there!
I guess that's true. I also like how he can also hit Grass types with Sludge Wave if the rain is up.
In past generations, Ludicolo's Special Attack might have been enough to deal with annoying Grass Pkm, however, Mega Venusaur and Ferrothorn can easily shrug off 252+ SpA Life Orb Ice Beam from Ludicolo and threaten it back with Sludge Bomb and Power Whip/Gyro Ball.
To give an example:
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 188 SpD Ferrothorn: 82-97 (23.2 - 27.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Venusaur-Mega: 94-112 (25.8 - 30.8%) -- 11.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
While Mega Venusaur doesn't have Leftovers as Ferrothorn does, it has access to Synthesis.
Ludicolo is also not powerful enough to deal with Cradily:
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cradily: 151-179 (40.1 - 47.6%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
While Cradily on the other hand can whittle down Ludicolo with Toxic and Recover. If however, you manage to get rid of this trio, then Ludicolo is able to OHKO or 2HKO the rest of a typical Mono Grass team. It will, however, take a lot of damage in return, especially if you're dealing with Focus Sash Breloom, which can knock out Ludicolo with Bullet Seed and Mach Punch.
As for its neutrality to Electric, mono Electric teams usually have Tapu Koko on their team, which can summon an Electric Terrain. This field move doubles Alola-Raichu's Speed and increases Electric moves from grounded Pkm, which has a 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Life Orb boost from Modest Alola Raichu. At this point, you could just use Mega Swampert that is immune to Electric moves. Admittingly however, Ludicolo is quite good at getting rid of Wash-Rotom, which walls Mega Swampert.
Hello! I'm looking for some alternatives on a mono rock team. The thing is, I bred a shiny Roggenrola brave nature and sand stream ability, now evolved and super trained for perfect IVs (except speed), and I'd like to use it in a mono rock team. I was thinking of using the pokémon from the sample rock team, they seem to cover each other and to provide answers the key threats. However, by using Gigalith, it will need some tweaks that I guess won't make my team optimal, but I'd like some advices to make it as good as it can possibly get. So, I have 3 questions.
1st- Should I keep Tyranitar? My Gigalith has sand stream, so does Tyranitar bring something crucial to the team other than sandstorm setup?
2nd- What set should I use for Gigalith? Because it's already bred, it has to have either sand stream or sturdy (but I don't think that one would be usefull) and a brave nature. I gave it curse, heavy slam and wide guard as egg moves just in case, so these are available.
3rd- I don't have access to Diancie, so what pokémon should I use instead? That leaves an open spot for a mega, so should I use mega Tyranitar? Or maybe mega Aerodactyl? Mega Diancie is a good answer to fighting types, so Mega Aerodactyl could fulfill that job. It has some useful coverage moves in aqua tail, ice fang and fire fang, and an immunity to ground moves. A regular Aerodactyl could also carry a flyinium-Z with sky attack for one time nuke.
1st- Should I keep Tyranitar? My Gigalith has sand stream, so does Tyranitar bring something crucial to the team other than sandstorm setup?
2nd- What set should I use for Gigalith? Because it's already bred, it has to have either sand stream or sturdy (but I don't think that one would be usefull) and a brave nature. I gave it curse, heavy slam and wide guard as egg moves just in case, so these are available.
3rd- I don't have access to Diancie, so what pokémon should I use instead? That leaves an open spot for a mega, so should I use mega Tyranitar? Or maybe mega Aerodactyl? Mega Diancie is a good answer to fighting types, so Mega Aerodactyl could fulfill that job. It has some useful coverage moves in aqua tail, ice fang and fire fang, and an immunity to ground moves. A regular Aerodactyl could also carry a flyinium-Z with sky attack for one time nuke.
Hello!
Not sure if I'm qualified enough for this, but I try my best. First of all, the team you build is it just for a battle between friends or do you want to build a team based on Smogon standards? And do you want to use your team for Single Battle or for Double Battle? Last but not least, do you just want to battle on Level 50 or on Level 100? I'm asking this because there are some small differences when it comes to EVs.
Now, to answer your questions:
1) That really depends on the team; I would say. It's a frigthening monster in its mega form, able to withstand strong moves effective against it (except for Fighting). And in return, it can easily set up with Dragon Dance and make good use of Fire Punch or Ice Punch, which are good at removing Ferrothorn, (Mega) Scizor, Landorus-T, Gliscor, etc. Tyrannitar also eases up your match-up against Psychic Team as they are weak to Crunch.
2) and 3) If you had Custap Berry, Gigalith would be an ideal suicide lead Pkm, able to set up Stealth Rock and/or Gravity. But I don't think Custap Berry has been released. So, I'd suggest a semi Trick Room Team as Gigalith has a Brave nature. Good team members might be Cradily and Stakataka. The former can deal with certain annoying Water and Ground Pkm both Gigalith and Stakataka have a hard time to threaten, for example: Swampert. Hippowdown. The latter on the other hand can set up Trick Room and is generally very strong with Gyro Ball and Stone Edge.
Stakataka is also not weak against Grass and Steel moves, and with support from Gigalith's Sand Stream it can come in on Magnezone and Serperior. Other then that, I would strongly suggest Alola Golem because it can remove (Mega) Scizor, Excadrill (if it's Choice locked), Celesteela, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn. The fifth Team member could be a Rock/Flying Pkm, which would ease up your match-up against Grass Teams and Fighting Teams. Mega Aerodactyl is very fast and can deal with Landorus-T and Excadrill if it has Acess to Ice Fang, Earth Quake, or Aqua Tail. Its Aerial Ace is, however, very weak. Another option might be Archeops. With a Power Herb, it can make good use of Sky Attack. After that, you can abuse Acrobatics. If Archeops is at low health, you can use Endeavor. Another option is Minior, but you have to use Substitute to activate its other form. For the final slot, it could be Nihilego, another Rock/Flying Pkm, Tyrannitar, Omastar.
Nihilego and Omastar are not hindered by Will O Wisp and Intimidate. Nihilego also has good moves in Grass Knot, Thunderbolt, and Hidden Power Ice/Fire, Sludge Bomb, which eases your battle against Ground, Grass and Water teams. it can also absorb Toxik Spike from Toxapex. Omastar on the other hand can pressure Ground teams with Air Balloon and Shell Smash. They cannot always click Earth Quake to win the battle, unless Gravity is active.
Gigalith: Stone Edge, Earth Quake, Stealth Rock, Superpower/Explosion | Sand Stream |
Cradily: Giga Drain, Recover, Toxic, Earth Power/Earth Quake | Bold/Relaxed | Leftovers | Storm Drain
Stakatka: Stone Edge, Gyro Ball, Trick Room, Earth Quake/Superpower | Lonely | Z-Rock
Alola Golem: Stone Edge, Wild Charge, Fire Punch, Earth Quake | Jolly | Choice Band | Steel Trapping Ability
Archeops: Sky Attack, Arcobatic, Endeavor, Stone Edge | Jolly | Power Herb
Optional sixth slot
Nihilego: Sludge Bomb, Grass Knot, Hidden Power Ice, Thunderbolt/Dazzling Gleam | Timid | Choice Scarf/Life Orb
Tyrannitar: Stone Edge, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Dragon Dance | Jolly | Mega Stone
Omastar: Hydro Pump, Hidden Power Grass, Ice Beam, Shell Smash | Modest | Air Balloon | Weak Armor
Aerodactyl: Aerial Ace, Ice Fang, Stone Edge, Roost/Aqua Tail/Earth Quake | Jolly | Mega Stone
Thanks for your post! I can see that you put a lot of effort in it, that's really appreciated!
To answer your questions, I'm mostly playing against friends and on the online battle spot, so I don't follow smogon standards that much. That will also make battle in the level 50 format most of the time. And I'm not planning to use it specifically for singles or doubles, so something good for both is what I'm looking for.
I like your Archeops. It uses 2 flying type moves, but it's job is moslty to threater fighting types anyway. Endeavor is good idea to work around it's attack drop under 50% health. It's a shame Aerodactyl doesn't learn a stronger flying move :/
Cradily and Alola Golem are definitely 2 pokémon I wanted to include in the team. They were suggested in the sample thread, and I think they both are very important to a mono rock team.
Speaking of that sample team, they also suggest using Shuckle with sticky web. I really loved this idea. It's a nice support for the slower attackers like Alola Golem. I'm very considering to find a place for Shuckle in the team.
Also, worth mentionning... Dusk Form Lycanroc could be a good setup sweeper with Z happy hour (boosting all stats).
You provided a lot of nice alternatives for the team I'd like to build. It's hard to decide which pokémon would fit better the team. Nihilego would be a good option, as my team is only composed of physical attackers.
Thanks!
As far as Shuckle is concerned, I wouldn't suggest it on a semi Trick Room team due to Sticky Webs, which reduces the Speed of opposing Pkm on the ground. This would weaken Stakataka's Gyro Ball and only benefit Alola Golem and Archeops. However, if you think you know when and how to use Shuckle effectively, you could use it as your sixth Pkm. Personally, I would go for a Bold nature and Gluttony + Yapa Berry so that you can play Shuckle more recklessly. Its Special Defense is already high enough, especially with Sand Stream support from Gigalith. With Gluttony and Yapa Berry, you get the chance to set up Sticky Web/Stealth Rock and knock off Excadrill's item. This was just an example.
As for the sample team you were talking about, that Shuckle can support not only Alola Golem, but also Terrakion and Mega Diancie. The last two Pkm have high enough speed to really make good use of Sticky Web. Choice Scarf Terrakion can outspeed Choice Scarf Greninja, and Mega Diancie doesn't have to worry about Choice Scarf Keldeo. If you want to rely on that sample team, I would advise you to look for a Pkm that can deal with Mega Sableye as you don't have Mega Diancie. Minior might help so long its HP are not halved. If it were below half, then it'd be susceptible to Will o Wisp. Choice Spec/Life Orb Dazzling Gleam Nihilego might help, but I think (Mega) Tyrannitar with Subsitute and Dragon Dance might be even more effective as it heavily pressures Ghost and Dark Teams.
Dusk Form Lycanroc is an interesting idea, but it might be difficult to find a good opportunity to use Z Happy Hour as it is very frail and still not strong enough to OHKO certain Pkm such as Celesteela, Gliscor, etc.. But if you want to use it, both Fire Fang and Thunder Fang are a good option. I don't know which one of these moves you ave on Lycanroc, but if it is the latter, I can say that it's helpful to OHKO Keldeo after some chip damage.
For Doubles, I will list off all the Pkm that I find very useful for a Rock Team. Of course, it depends on whether you want to use a full Trick Room team with Gigalith or just a semi Trick Room team.
Aerodactyl: Sky Drop, Rock Slide, Wide Guard, Tailwind | Jolly | Focus Sash | Unnerve | 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 SpD
Cradily: Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, Hidden Power Ice, Earth Power | Quiet | Sitrus Berry/Expert Belt | Storm Drain | 252 HP, 44 V, 212 SpA
Aurorus: Hyper Voice, Freeze-Dry, Protect, Earth Power | Modest | Life Orb/Never-Melt-Ice | Refrigerate | 212 HP, 116 V, 140 SpA, 4 SpD, 36 Speed
Alola Golem: Double Edge, Explosion, Wide Guard, Protect | Brave | Magnet | Galvanize | 172 HP, 252 Atk, 84 SpD
Stakataka: Rock Slide, Trick Room, Gyro Ball, Protect | Lonely | Rockium-Z | Beast-Boost | 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SpV
Carbink: Moon Blast, Trick Room, Reflect, Light Screen | Bold | Light Clay | Sturdy | 252 HP, 156 V, 100 Speed
Nihilego1: Hidden Power Ice, Sludge Bomb, Protect, Thunderbolt | Timid | Life Orb | Beast-Boost | 4HP, 252 SpA, 252 Speed
Nihilego 2: Hidden Power Ice, Sludge Bomb, Trick Room, Protect | Calm | Yapa Berry | Beast-Boost | 4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 SpD
Tyrannitar: Rock Slide, Protect, Assurance, Ice Beam | Brave | Mega-Stone | Sand Stream | 252 HP, 84 Atk, 140 D, 32 SpA
Rhyperior: Rock Slide, Drill Run, Protect, Rock Wrecker/Elemental Punch | Brave | Rockium-Z/Sitrus Berry | 152 HP, 100 Atk, 204 D, 52 SpD
Gigalith: Rock Slide, Heavy Slam, Stone Edge, Protect | Brave | Rockium-Z | 244 HP, 252 Atk, 12 D
I don't remember anymore why I choose the EV spread. In most cases, they were influenced by SM, but they should be still useful for USUM. I think Carbink is the only Pkm whose spread is a bit out-dated, but I was too lazy to breed and train another Carbink. This Carbink is fast enough to outspeed Sylveon and Azumarill if I recall right, and set up with Reflect/Light Screen. This is useful when I don't want to use Trick Room yet.
Tyrannitar is strong enough to OHKO Landorus-T with Ice Beam if I recall right, while Cradily requires a boost to do so with Hidden Power Ice.
In case you don't use a full Rock Team, having a Pkm with Intimidate works wonder as the given EV spread of some Pkm allows them to survive 2-4 Earth Quake from Landorus-T.
Team suggestions for 4-4 or 6-6:
1) Gigalith, Cradily, Carbink, Alola Golem (Lunatone/Solrock, Lycanroc-Midnight)
Just make sure one of your Pkm has a Fire move and a Psychic move. Gigalith can use Choice Band to attack with a very strong Rock Slide. As for Lunatone, I haven't used it in Doubles yet, but from my experiences in Triple, it was very good at setting up with Trick Room and threatening Pkm with Ice Beam, Earth Power, Grass Knot, or Psychic. As for Lycanroc-Midnight ... I like it, and it's not bad with Stone Edge, Fire punch, Sucker punch, Protect. It can also remove terrains with its new Z-Move. If you want to use Lycanroc-Midnight, I'd suggest a bulky, offensive EV spread.
2) Aerodactyl, Aurorus, Nihilego, fast Alola Golem (Tyrannitar, Archeops)
Tyrannitar doesn't need to run an Adamant/Jolly nature, but if you want to make use of Dragon Dance (while Aerodactyl Sky Drops an opposing Pkm) or of a Choice Scarf set with Assurance/Rock Slide/Ice Punch/Protect, that's fine too. If you want, Archeops could run Quick Guard to protect your team from Aqua Jet, Mach Punch,Fake Out, or Bulet Punch.
there is one, it has the updated leaderboard for ribbon tours in the mono circuit for 2k18. https://www.smogon.com/tiers/om/monotype/rankings
Ok, I think I have a better understanding of Shuckle's job in that sample team. It's true that sticky web benefits a lot to Diancie and Terakion. However, sticky wouldn't be that much useful to support only Alola Golem. And if I go for a trick room team, it would just hinder the team. I think I won't use Shuckle after all.
And thanks for all your suggestions. There are definitely a lot of interesting options there! I'll use Cradily and Alola Golem for sure. Stakataka would be a good trick room support. With Gigalith, I guess these 4 pokémon would be the core of my mono rock team for singles and doubles. Then, for the 2 remaining pokémon, I think I'll adjust the team if I play singles or doubles.
If I play singles, Archeops seems to be a good choice: immunity to ground, stronger STAB flying moves than Aerodactyl. I'll have to decide for the 6th between Tyranitar with substitute or Nihilego for a special attacker. They're both very tempting to use hahaha.
And if I play doubles, Aerodactyl would be a good support with sky drop and tailwind. It could pair well with a Nihilego.
So much interesting suggestions hahaha. I guess I'll have to try a few combinations and find out which one I prefer. Lunatone has a few bonus points for being uncommon lol. Thanks for your help BlueRay!
I've been given the go ahead to start a Pet Mod based on Monotype. Would it be possible to advertise in the Monotype room, as I would like to more Monotype players involved?
This kind of question should be answered by room owners, try to contact them and see what they has to say about it.
Ok I’m very new to the Monotype metagame and I’m just wondering what was behind the reasoning of unranking Goodra in Dragon? It looked like a niche but effective Special wall.
Two part answer:
1. We wanted to make the higher ranks of the Dragon VR more accurate. We previously had 3 S ranks and 4 A ranks (even worse if you go back to 6+ months ago). In a VR that contained 12 Pokemon, it's absurd that over 50% are contained in the top two rankings. We decided to continue trying to make the VR more accurate by splitting up the A ranks. In order to do this, we had to demote the two Mega Evolutions. However, they aren't actually equally viable as Hydreigon and Latias. So we had to demote Latias, and that forced the demotion of Mega Garchomp, which forced the demotion of both Salamence and Goodra as well. Sadly, Goodra was already D rank, so it was outright unranked.
2. Goodra is just too niche. While being a special wall is a defined role, Goodra only really helped with Kingdra rain, which gets worse in the metagame every month, and opposing Mega Latias Dragon, since Mega Altaria beats Goodra fine. Speaking of which, you can just run Mega Altaria to do the same thing. Goodra just doesn't have any real use, and as a result, compared to the Pokemon we do rank, it had to go.
Thanks for your interest in Monotype!
Unfortunately, there is no formal viability rankings for types overall. This is due to the general fluid nature of the metagame where what types are considered good or the best can change over time, but not having a hard-fast rule. Type viability is also extremely dependent on what context you're building for. By this I mean, "type viability" for the ladder is different than what you see in team tours or solo smogon tours. Everyone also has very varying opinions on what types are the best/worst and how they rank, it can often be awfully subjective. I'd recommend trying out a bit of each type (if given the opportunity) to see what playstyle suits you the best and go from there.
Thanks for the reply fren!:]
Can any team type be good if it is built correctly?
Like, people say that Ice is the worst type, but I think any type can be good if it is built correctly. (personally I think it makes a great hyper offense team, but thats just me)
Obviously some will be better than others, but can you build a team of any type and have it be great?
Like, people say that Ice is the worst type, but I think any type can be good if it is built correctly. (personally I think it makes a great hyper offense team, but thats just me)
Obviously some will be better than others, but can you build a team of any type and have it be great?
I think great is extremely subjective and honestly not the word I’d use. I think viable is a better word, because every type is able to be used and be good to some degree, but some types are generally fare better in this meta.
but basically yes, a team using a subpar type can still be good, just outperformed by other better types at the moment.
DoW
formally Death on Wings
A while ago the monotype council decided that making all types viable wasn't their priority, as we end up with a better metagame if we instead focus on making sure no single type or team is too strong. So there's no guarantee that you'll be able to make a good team using any type.
With that said, there's almost always at least a small reason you might use a team, for example if you were in a tournament and could confidently guess your opponent's team, you might then use a less viable type which was more capable in that one situation.
I think the other two replies said it best but using unfavorable types such as ice can be very surprising. Flying and ground are both types that are used quite often, a good ice team could beat either one. Its all about prediction as even the more non "viable" niche types can find their niche as more overused types such as Steel or flying normally prepare to face other overused types.
This is a big reason as to why grass (one of the worst types to use in the meta) is incredibly strong against water (one of the most used types in the meta) its because it can beat water incredibly easily. Most water teams have to prep for electric or grass, and most would choose electric due to the main threat of how Electric has risen in useage after Zeraora came in.
Anyways it truly depends but Ice works great as a niche type as it handles two of the most popular types in the meta, Flying and Dragon, and those two types wont prep for the rarely used Ice for that reason.
I was wondering if a new ranking system might be useful for the community. In OU, many Pkm run different sets, and you can see how they are ranked. If we take a look at Mega Scizor in Bug, it's ranked A. If we were to apply the same idea from OU here, maybe we might see something like Swords Dance Mega Scizor is A+ and Defense Mega Scizor is A-.
In my opinion, this might help people to get an idea how frequent some sets are and that there are other viable sets within this ranking.
In my opinion, this might help people to get an idea how frequent some sets are and that there are other viable sets within this ranking.
I can understand that opinion as it can help users determine how specifically these mons can be played in monotype. However other OM's such as AAA do not show the explicit sets, just ideas on how they can be used effectively (For example it shows the recommended abilities next to the pokemon, for example Triage Buzzwole, Adapt Buzzwole, etc.) perhaps we should list how the pokemon should be used, for example we can list Diancie M as a "Sweeper set", and then a "mixed attacker set"
IM not the best though when it comes to this so if someone has better ideas they can just comment over me