Honestly I think they'd just lean into it, down to having NPC wanting to see the biggest SS Gourgeist and the smallest LL Gourgeist
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SPOILERS! All Returning DLC Pokemon in SV DLC Expansion Pass <Unconfirmed>
- Thread starter TheDragonTexasWarrior2001
- Start date
I mean, most of them are already in the game, so there isn't much to add anyway. The only gen 4 lines that won't be in (besides legendaries and evolutions/pre-evolutions for past mons) are the Bidoof line, Burmy line, Cherubi line, Buneary line, Glameow line, Chatot, Skorupi line, and Carnivine. That's not very many.
Gen 8 on the other hand really isn't getting much added here. I wanted Boltund to be in a game other than swsh :(
Generic early game electric is always an easy cut what with Pikachu/Pikaclones/New gen elec. Orbeetle easily my 2nd fave Bug (behind Volc) and easily the best early game Bug in the games, can’t hardly beleieve it.
I mean Samurott is best. Sucks that Serperior misses out but no Emboar makes up for it.
The UBs are simply additions by the OP. The UBs were removed from the Legendary list internally, and if you remove them from counts but leave all the other Legendary pokemon it fits pretty snugly in the "over 230" number which would imply 231~239.
It’ll be sending Last Respects to AG (cuz I’m pretty sure once Basculegion is available LR is gonna be banned specifically)
Eh, not sure about it, doesn't look like Ubers has had much issues with Houndstone so far. Basculegion is stronk but Ubers is also the place where Miraidon exists and with it an actual elec terrain setter that gives Quark Drive to Valiant...
If LR was to go to AG, I doubt it'd be because of Smeargle honestly
Since it seems Kommo-o and Metagross are both returning with the DLC, thus making every single pseudo-legendary available and usable in SV like in SwSh, I wonder how these two will be distributed within the DLC. Will they both be in the same half of the expansion and be version exclusives? Or will they both be available in both games and one is in Teal Mask while the other is in Indigo Disk (in this case Kommo-o would be Teal Mask since Metagross is implied to be in Indigo Disk)? In this case Clanger and Meta are the only two pseudos who need to be "added" to the DLC, but SwSh back then had four returning pseudos in the base and the remaining four were all added in the Crown Tundra half of the DLC.
Back in SwSh the distribution of pseudos was the following:
In both: Dragonite (DLC), Metagross (DLC), Dragapult (obviously)
Sword exclusive: Salamence (DLC), Hydreigon, Kommo-o
Shield exclusive: Tyranitar, Garchomp (DLC), Goodra
In SV, with the revelation that Kommo-o and Metagross, who were the only two pseudo-legendaries who were MIA in SV base, are both returning, the latter fully confirmed to be returning in Indigo Disk, I wonder how they will distribute them.
Thus far with this the distribution of pseudos in SV is this:
In both: Dragonite, Garchomp, Goodra, Baxcalibur (naturally)
Scarlet exclusive: Tyranitar, Hydreigon
Violet exclusive: Salamence, Dragapult
Returning in DLC: Metagross, Kommo-o
But it remains to be seen how Metagross and Kommo-o will be available in the DLC areas. I wonder if they will go for one is in each half of the expansion, one being in Kitakami with The Teal Mask while the other is in the area near Blueberry Academy with the Indigo Disk, or if they will be in the same areas but version exclusive. It will be curious to see how that rolls.
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I am also curious about how they will distribute the returning starters if they are made available in-game. Back in SwSh, Charmander was available in the post-game, while the Kanto and Alola starters were all HOME transferrable. Bulbasaur and Squirtle were made available in-game with the Isle of Armor, as were the Alola starters. Crown Tundra added the Hoenn starters who were made obtainable in the Dynamax Adventures.
This time, we have the entire Kalos and Galar starter trios transferrable to SV via HOME, it remains to be seen if they'll be obtainable in-game. But the full Kanto trio, along with the Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Alola trios are all being added as available by this list. If they are obtainable in-game, how will they be obtainable? Will some of them be gifts in one half of the expansion and the others available in others? Will there be a "Terastal Adventures" where they make a Tera Raid facility that returns all the legendaries, and some of the starters will be obtainable there?
It will be curious how they implement this many returning trios of starters, especially in this case since everyone is returning except the Unova starters (albeit Samurott is available), who I imagine their exclusion would suggest is a sign that we may get another Unova game later this generation which will be where they, as the ambassadors of the Unova region, will make their big return this generation.
Back in SwSh the distribution of pseudos was the following:
In both: Dragonite (DLC), Metagross (DLC), Dragapult (obviously)
Sword exclusive: Salamence (DLC), Hydreigon, Kommo-o
Shield exclusive: Tyranitar, Garchomp (DLC), Goodra
In SV, with the revelation that Kommo-o and Metagross, who were the only two pseudo-legendaries who were MIA in SV base, are both returning, the latter fully confirmed to be returning in Indigo Disk, I wonder how they will distribute them.
Thus far with this the distribution of pseudos in SV is this:
In both: Dragonite, Garchomp, Goodra, Baxcalibur (naturally)
Scarlet exclusive: Tyranitar, Hydreigon
Violet exclusive: Salamence, Dragapult
Returning in DLC: Metagross, Kommo-o
But it remains to be seen how Metagross and Kommo-o will be available in the DLC areas. I wonder if they will go for one is in each half of the expansion, one being in Kitakami with The Teal Mask while the other is in the area near Blueberry Academy with the Indigo Disk, or if they will be in the same areas but version exclusive. It will be curious to see how that rolls.
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I am also curious about how they will distribute the returning starters if they are made available in-game. Back in SwSh, Charmander was available in the post-game, while the Kanto and Alola starters were all HOME transferrable. Bulbasaur and Squirtle were made available in-game with the Isle of Armor, as were the Alola starters. Crown Tundra added the Hoenn starters who were made obtainable in the Dynamax Adventures.
This time, we have the entire Kalos and Galar starter trios transferrable to SV via HOME, it remains to be seen if they'll be obtainable in-game. But the full Kanto trio, along with the Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Alola trios are all being added as available by this list. If they are obtainable in-game, how will they be obtainable? Will some of them be gifts in one half of the expansion and the others available in others? Will there be a "Terastal Adventures" where they make a Tera Raid facility that returns all the legendaries, and some of the starters will be obtainable there?
It will be curious how they implement this many returning trios of starters, especially in this case since everyone is returning except the Unova starters (albeit Samurott is available), who I imagine their exclusion would suggest is a sign that we may get another Unova game later this generation which will be where they, as the ambassadors of the Unova region, will make their big return this generation.
I don't think Kommo-o and Metagross will be version exclusives because Jangmo-o has an actual movepool while Beldum doesn't really. I predict Kommo-o will come with Teal Mask, but maybe it'll come with Indigo Disk.
And I too am curious about the distribution of the starters. I think a "Terestal Adventures" is a perfect and easy way to bring back the starters and legendaries, though you would have to wonder why it wouldn't be hinted at in the original announcement like Dynamax Adventures was. It's not impossible though, and I for one am hoping for it.
And I too am curious about the distribution of the starters. I think a "Terestal Adventures" is a perfect and easy way to bring back the starters and legendaries, though you would have to wonder why it wouldn't be hinted at in the original announcement like Dynamax Adventures was. It's not impossible though, and I for one am hoping for it.
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I think there's a good chance that the various starters might just be out & about as wild encounters. Sort of like how the Crown Tundra had fossil Pokemon just roaming around.
I base this on these being scrubbed dex entries, which combined with being less than the >230 number they're throwing around meaning there's other Pokemon that are likely outside the dex ala the various "foreign" pokemon in SWSH, implying that all these Pokemon will show up in the Pokedex proper for Kitakami &/or the Blueberry Academy. And it would seem a bit off if you were dedicating ~15 slots in a given dex to something you might only get one of per set without raids.
I base this on these being scrubbed dex entries, which combined with being less than the >230 number they're throwing around meaning there's other Pokemon that are likely outside the dex ala the various "foreign" pokemon in SWSH, implying that all these Pokemon will show up in the Pokedex proper for Kitakami &/or the Blueberry Academy. And it would seem a bit off if you were dedicating ~15 slots in a given dex to something you might only get one of per set without raids.
Legends arceus also did that with the sinnoh starters and rowlet cyndaquil and oshowott (tho the latter were only in outbreaks and distortions). Granted, it was probably since they wanted that game to be single player exclusively (thus no trades) but it's an interesting decision nonetheless.
I think the majority will be from 7-star raids, even with the dex scrub data I find it hard to believe that they’ll *all* be in the regional dex. Could definitely see the Kanto starters and maybe the Sinnoh/Hisui ones available as gifts though, with 1-2 others being available the same way we get legends (terastal adventures or something similar.
Considering that in SwSh several starters were available (ha and all) via dynamax adventures, I would just bank on a similar facility coming in 2nd dlc which will also feature them.
Ultimately they will need some way to throw all the legendaries (+ potentially the UBs) at you, and it's usually a good place to put the starters too.
I don't think we'll see them in the wild (unless some special scenario like the L.A. distortions) since they like to keep the "uniqueness' of starters not regularly available in the wild. After all it's what tends to distinguish them from regular mons.
Ultimately they will need some way to throw all the legendaries (+ potentially the UBs) at you, and it's usually a good place to put the starters too.
I don't think we'll see them in the wild (unless some special scenario like the L.A. distortions) since they like to keep the "uniqueness' of starters not regularly available in the wild. After all it's what tends to distinguish them from regular mons.
The Alola & Hoenn starters weren't in a pokedex like all of these appear to be set for, which is why I making the assumption they're not being lumped into a facility.
Fossils were also kept "unique" by not being found in the wild until Crown Tundra; in fact even in the gen 6 friend safari you couldn't find the fossils even though you could find the Kanto & Kalos starters.
I think in later generations the "rareness" of the previous generation starters has been diminished as they're so readily and easily available. I would prefer them to just allow the starters, especially from like.. the first 6 generations to just live in the wild. We know that the starters do actually live in the wild and it's not out of the realm of possibility to encounter them. PLA showed us that the Sinnoh starters can exist in the wild and it still feels nice, and sorta special acquiring them, I think all starters generally do feel like this.
Given how SV handled wild encounters, I think it would be great to see like a Meganium surrounding by a flock of Chikorita in the wild or seeing a Swampert swimming around with its Mudkip babies following. GO has pretty much "ruined" the rareness of a lot of Pokémon, everything is incredibly accessible, which is.. like fine, I'm not complaining, but I would prefer them to stop treating the starters as some sort of precious Pokémon that can only be gift/facility generated. I'm hoping PLA was them realising this as it still does have that magic and wonder attached to it.
Of course, Starters from Gen 7/8 are still somewhat "current", so I excluded them, and Gen 8 starters aren't even available in GO just yet(?), so it's understandable to just make them accessible through raids.
I get that with the sheer amount of Legendaries/Starters that having them found naturally in the wild is probably daunting, but the facility way of getting them is so tedious and a little boring.
I'm also a firm advocate of games incorporating static encounters for some older legendaries again! Imagine the sheer thrill and nostalgia of navigating a random dungeon and coming across Mewtwo or Groudon in a random big ass cave idk
Given how SV handled wild encounters, I think it would be great to see like a Meganium surrounding by a flock of Chikorita in the wild or seeing a Swampert swimming around with its Mudkip babies following. GO has pretty much "ruined" the rareness of a lot of Pokémon, everything is incredibly accessible, which is.. like fine, I'm not complaining, but I would prefer them to stop treating the starters as some sort of precious Pokémon that can only be gift/facility generated. I'm hoping PLA was them realising this as it still does have that magic and wonder attached to it.
Of course, Starters from Gen 7/8 are still somewhat "current", so I excluded them, and Gen 8 starters aren't even available in GO just yet(?), so it's understandable to just make them accessible through raids.
I get that with the sheer amount of Legendaries/Starters that having them found naturally in the wild is probably daunting, but the facility way of getting them is so tedious and a little boring.
I'm also a firm advocate of games incorporating static encounters for some older legendaries again! Imagine the sheer thrill and nostalgia of navigating a random dungeon and coming across Mewtwo or Groudon in a random big ass cave idk
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I kind of miss one little thing from LGPE where the Birds could just randomly appear (very rarely) flying around as wild encounters. I wish they'd allow this for at least some of the "smaller" legendary Pokemon who we already have confirmation exist in more-than-one Quantities. They could be harder/impossible to boost appearance rates with sandwiches, but imagine if once in a Blue Moon you ran past a Tauros horde and just spotted a Raikou going the other way (with similar Shiny "don't despawn" precautions).
Go already has some Legendaries as "regular" spawns, like I think the Lake Trio are just extremely rarely-appearing Pokemon, Go Tour has stuff like Latios/Latias in the wild with high Flee Rates, and the Daily Adventure Incense can spawn the Galarian Bird Trio very rarely. I think it'd be nice to import to the games just as a novelty to run into or a distinction for collectors even if the mons themselves are easy to find for Dex/Battling through other means now.
We have 40 sublegend species, 21 full legendary species, 22 mythicals, and 11 Ultra Beasts, all thus far. Even if we discount the 4 sublegends and 2 legends we got this gen, factor in Type:Null, Poipole and Kubfu, and that Cosmog is usually handled separated from its fully evolved counterparts, we are left with 34 sublegendary encounters and 2 handouts, 17 full legendary encounters and a handout, and whatever they decide to do with mythicals and Ultra Beasts (which no longer have the legendary flag, and thus I'm thinking an approach comparable to Paradoxes).
Just for reference, on Legendaries:
the last time a list like this was datamined, it did include Pokémon like Legendaries and starters that weren't part of the regional dex and did not have dex entries, so the fact that they aren't on this list isn't just "because they're going to be in the game but not in the dex" (nor does a Pokémon being on this list guarantee that it has an actual regional dex number, in the case of something like the starters).
I can only assume the list that was datamined was just... not 100% current as of the announcement of 230+ Pokémon, rather than assuming that the list is final and looking for reasons that Pokémon they already planned wouldn't be on it.
(For what it's worth: even if this was just a rough draft, I assume they would have at least known about a major feature with every Legendary; I actually find it much harder to believe an all-the-Legendaries feature is part of the plan if there's no sign of it yet, compared to just... a random assortment of additional lines they hadn't selected at the time of this list that happen to increase the number to 230.)
If I had to guess, this is probably all they had decided would be in the dex... at whatever time they made a new fork to focus on DLC separately from what they had to prepare for the Pokémon Day patch, but that could easily have been weeks or even months before the patch actually came out.
I'm sure most of the DLC prep has taken place in its own fork as soon as they really got into developing it, whereas the Pokémon Day patch would have been intentionally based on an older version of the code that was closer to the original release.
Anyone working on something like this is going to make backups all the time, but more specifically, I'm pretty sure Game Freak uses something like Github that automatically records their commit history (see the Gen VII development repository leaks from a while ago, for instance), so they don't even need to decide when to make backups - they could roll back to whatever version they wanted at any point.
What this means is that they're probably not going to start a relatively very small update like the Pokémon Day patch by taking a relatively current iteration of the code in the middle of DLC development and then manually scrubbing all of their progress so far, because it's much easier (more practical / less likely to go horribly wrong) to roll back to an older version from before they really got into it, when there was much less progress on the DLC in the first place.
Whatever version they decided to base this patch on is just going to be the one they decided was the path of least resistance, which boils down to "it would take less effort and be less disruptive to scrub the tiny amount of DLC content that was already in this patch than it would be to copy over the content we actually want to release, like bugfixes and UI improvements, to an even older version with no DLC progress whatsoever."
Basically what I'm saying is:
if the rest of the Legendaries aren't on this list, what it realistically means is "there just were not plans to add back the rest of the old Legendaries, at least at the time this list was made, and there are significantly more plausible and more mundane reasons for it not to be 230+ already;"
the last remaining slots in the 230+ number could just be any random lines they chose to add back in between then and now, and there might not even be as many of them as people think (the press release that gave the 230+ number said it included Pokémon that would be transfer-only, so it could reasonably include any number of the things we already knew about from HOME as well, just probably not stuff like Charizard/Cinderace/Greninja that was already out by the time the announcement was made).
But like.
Cutting down on legacy content bloat that they don't feel like they have anything interesting to do with / that only exists for the sake of trying to cram in "every <x thing> ever" is, like, the entire point of cutting the National Dex. Why do people not think this is exactly the kind of pattern they're willing to break now?
They definitely could choose to add some or all of them back later in development and I'm not saying it's impossible, especially since what we have is still an incomplete list and the Indigo Disk's release date is a long way off... but on the other hand:
This Gen introduced... I think 16 non-Legendary Paradoxes that are functionally Legendary, another 2 new Paradoxes that are restricted Legendaries, and 4 other new Legendaries already,
and then the DLC seems to be coming with at least 5 more new Legendaries,
and then HOME is already bringing back something like 20ish old minor Legendaries and another 10 options for restricted Legendaries when they do GS Cup.
They probably just said "that's plenty" and didn't want to cram in the other 38 things that were in SwSh under the same umbrella. P:
It's not like they could possibly keep doing this in every region... seriously, just imagine doing it again as early as next Gen: they're going to have, at a minimum, another 11 Legendaries from SV to consider the next time they do this... and also all of the SwSh Legendaries and Enamorus are now legacy content as opposed to new content, so that's another 14 more than the last time this actually happened.
Last Gen showed us that both starters and Mythical Pokémon could reasonably be on the chopping block for individual games - why are people still taking for granted that Legendaries can't ever be, to the point of "correcting" the actual datamined information to account for them instead of taking at face value that they just aren't in the datamine?
the last time a list like this was datamined, it did include Pokémon like Legendaries and starters that weren't part of the regional dex and did not have dex entries, so the fact that they aren't on this list isn't just "because they're going to be in the game but not in the dex" (nor does a Pokémon being on this list guarantee that it has an actual regional dex number, in the case of something like the starters).
I can only assume the list that was datamined was just... not 100% current as of the announcement of 230+ Pokémon, rather than assuming that the list is final and looking for reasons that Pokémon they already planned wouldn't be on it.
(For what it's worth: even if this was just a rough draft, I assume they would have at least known about a major feature with every Legendary; I actually find it much harder to believe an all-the-Legendaries feature is part of the plan if there's no sign of it yet, compared to just... a random assortment of additional lines they hadn't selected at the time of this list that happen to increase the number to 230.)
If I had to guess, this is probably all they had decided would be in the dex... at whatever time they made a new fork to focus on DLC separately from what they had to prepare for the Pokémon Day patch, but that could easily have been weeks or even months before the patch actually came out.
I'm sure most of the DLC prep has taken place in its own fork as soon as they really got into developing it, whereas the Pokémon Day patch would have been intentionally based on an older version of the code that was closer to the original release.
Anyone working on something like this is going to make backups all the time, but more specifically, I'm pretty sure Game Freak uses something like Github that automatically records their commit history (see the Gen VII development repository leaks from a while ago, for instance), so they don't even need to decide when to make backups - they could roll back to whatever version they wanted at any point.
What this means is that they're probably not going to start a relatively very small update like the Pokémon Day patch by taking a relatively current iteration of the code in the middle of DLC development and then manually scrubbing all of their progress so far, because it's much easier (more practical / less likely to go horribly wrong) to roll back to an older version from before they really got into it, when there was much less progress on the DLC in the first place.
Whatever version they decided to base this patch on is just going to be the one they decided was the path of least resistance, which boils down to "it would take less effort and be less disruptive to scrub the tiny amount of DLC content that was already in this patch than it would be to copy over the content we actually want to release, like bugfixes and UI improvements, to an even older version with no DLC progress whatsoever."
Basically what I'm saying is:
if the rest of the Legendaries aren't on this list, what it realistically means is "there just were not plans to add back the rest of the old Legendaries, at least at the time this list was made, and there are significantly more plausible and more mundane reasons for it not to be 230+ already;"
the last remaining slots in the 230+ number could just be any random lines they chose to add back in between then and now, and there might not even be as many of them as people think (the press release that gave the 230+ number said it included Pokémon that would be transfer-only, so it could reasonably include any number of the things we already knew about from HOME as well, just probably not stuff like Charizard/Cinderace/Greninja that was already out by the time the announcement was made).
But like.
Cutting down on legacy content bloat that they don't feel like they have anything interesting to do with / that only exists for the sake of trying to cram in "every <x thing> ever" is, like, the entire point of cutting the National Dex. Why do people not think this is exactly the kind of pattern they're willing to break now?
They definitely could choose to add some or all of them back later in development and I'm not saying it's impossible, especially since what we have is still an incomplete list and the Indigo Disk's release date is a long way off... but on the other hand:
This Gen introduced... I think 16 non-Legendary Paradoxes that are functionally Legendary, another 2 new Paradoxes that are restricted Legendaries, and 4 other new Legendaries already,
and then the DLC seems to be coming with at least 5 more new Legendaries,
and then HOME is already bringing back something like 20ish old minor Legendaries and another 10 options for restricted Legendaries when they do GS Cup.
They probably just said "that's plenty" and didn't want to cram in the other 38 things that were in SwSh under the same umbrella. P:
It's not like they could possibly keep doing this in every region... seriously, just imagine doing it again as early as next Gen: they're going to have, at a minimum, another 11 Legendaries from SV to consider the next time they do this... and also all of the SwSh Legendaries and Enamorus are now legacy content as opposed to new content, so that's another 14 more than the last time this actually happened.
Last Gen showed us that both starters and Mythical Pokémon could reasonably be on the chopping block for individual games - why are people still taking for granted that Legendaries can't ever be, to the point of "correcting" the actual datamined information to account for them instead of taking at face value that they just aren't in the datamine?
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