The Internet Bill

[SkellyDuke]

First of all, hello and my name is Andy.

Now there has been this problem going on for several years now and I think it's about time to talk about it. In my family, we use Videotron and Basic Internet. In other words, maximum of 3OGB of download and upload or whatever like that.

For some reason, it's obvious, we've been passing that limit every single month, every time for the past 6 years.

I keep telling my parents we should just upgrade, but my mom refuses to pay the extra. By doing so, here comes the extra 5O$ or so on every single bill.

For em, I started getting a part-time job (15-25 hours an hour) about 3 weeks ago. Working minimum salary, 9.5O$/hr. Now, they're thinking: "Hey, let's make Andy pay the bills." Excuse me, but I just got a job, starting to get paid, I'm 17 and you want me to pay the bills? And best of all, I also have a sister that YouTube's and plays games a lot online. Since I have a job and my only way of getting to work or school is via Public Transport, they also force me to pay that with my money. In find this insane already since how can I save up for the future with so many debts with my first ever job.

The payment: This is it, we pay the surplus at 5O/5O each, my sister and I. My sister is 9, she doesn't have any source of income unless it's her birthday or a major holiday. My mom keeps saying if we don't pay, she'll cut the Internet.

I stopped going on YouTube and other major games just to stop this madness. However, the surplus will always last because I'm really in touch with my friends via MSN and Skype, facebook and constantly updated on music because that's how I live.

Now, about that bill. I'm going to debate face to face with them, in the kitchen, as if it was a mini-courtroom. Now, I need to find good points to strengthen my point. Any advice?

I'll be checking this regularly because I'm summarizing my points on a sheet and I'm not losing this debate.

 

[az]

if you're being made to pay the bills, you should have a say in what ip you use, and i think that should be your first port of call

fifty dollars is ridiculous, even if that were the actual bill itself

 

[Exarius]

^What Az said above.

In addition, find some better internet providers, especially ones that give you unlimited up/down for a set payment. I dunno how this is in USA, but frankly, I'd say you can somewhat easy find providers for cheaper than what you pay now and give unlimited up/down. And even if you don't find unlimited, you should find some better ones. If you can show your parents something that is actually cheaper (via prints, or a website if you can be arsed), they should realize it's time to change. Also remember to have copies of your current bills! Compare the current ones with the new ones, and make it easy and clear to see how it would be beneficial for you all to change.

And just one thing: if your parents don't use the internet much/at all (we are talking about 1-2 hours a week or less), then they shouldn't have any say in this. And especially since they have bailed out of the payments. If you and your sister use it most and have the most knowledge in this, you should also decide on what you pay on. You wouldn't ask a car mechanic to do brain surgery, now would you?

Good luck, I hope you can get this through.

 

[SkellyDuke]

Thanks for the quick responses!

I forgot to say that we live in Canada, Quebec.

I think we're also on a contract so we can't cancel our subscription. I know that my Dad tried to hook us up with an unlimited Internet Company in the United States, but my Mom quickly canceled it saying "By having unlimited Internet, no one will know a limit and keep their eyes stuck on the monitor all day long."

The 5O$ is the surplus of exceeded download.​

 

[cim]

Just print out the details of a different plan and compare them side by side with the current one and show that it's better in every possible way and cheaper to use a different ISP. Even offer to pay the difference.

If they're concerned about internet time, just say you'll use a program (doesn't have to be real) to track how much data you download to make sure you never pass it or something. Also, obviously no one's stopping you now.

 

[SkellyDuke]

Just print out the details of a different plan and compare them side by side with the current one and show that it's better in every possible way and cheaper to use a different ISP. Even offer to pay the difference.

If they're concerned about internet time, just say you'll use a program (doesn't have to be real) to track how much data you download to make sure you never pass it or something. Also, obviously no one's stopping you now.

I just hate it how my Mom just refuses to change and says that by having a very limited ISP is a good way to make use learn to not abuse of the computer when we have a Wii, 4 computers (and a laptop soon), 4 TVs, Satellite Receiver, 2 DS, 3 Printers and who-knows how many iPods.

Obviously, no one's stopping me, but I'm thinking I'm better off hanging outside with friends instead of being trapped by all these rules.​

 

[Firestorm]

Switch providers and switch now.

Colba (if it's available in your area): http://forums.redflagdeals.com/high...7-95-month-colbanet-colba-net-qc-only-881240/

Basic Videotron is $27.95 for 3GB of bandwidth, not 30GB. You're getting ripped off. Even Bell or Rogers might be a better bet. Hell, order this: http://forums.redflagdeals.com/dell...ternet-9-99-no-contract-new-customers-920145/

Then just switch to Fibe 7 for $35 or something.

Or call Videotron, say you want to cancel, and see what they offer. Most of the communications companies will bend over backwards to keep you. Tell them the situation and why you're thinking of cancelling and they will try to appease you.

 

[SkellyDuke]

Switch providers and switch now.

Colba (if it's available in your area): http://forums.redflagdeals.com/high...7-95-month-colbanet-colba-net-qc-only-881240/

Basic Videotron is $27.95 for 3GB of bandwidth, not 30GB. You're getting ripped off. Even Bell or Rogers might be a better bet. Hell, order this: http://forums.redflagdeals.com/dell...ternet-9-99-no-contract-new-customers-920145/

Then just switch to Fibe 7 for $35 or something.

Or call Videotron, say you want to cancel, and see what they offer. Most of the communications companies will bend over backwards to keep you. Tell them the situation and why you're thinking of cancelling and they will try to appease you.

The Fibe 7 looks interesting and I may be willing to pay a fraction of the monthly usage just to get them switch into it since I'm also using it. I'll have to talk about it with them and show them how there are better things. And besides, a 5O$ surplus is insane considering the price of this new ISP.​

 

[cim]

Demonstrate to your mom, with stuff she uses, how small 3 GB actually is.

 

[SkellyDuke]

Demonstrate to your mom, with stuff she uses, how small 3 GB actually is.

It's like 1/6 of my iPod. I don't know how to tell her how her line of thinking of "we use Videotron to limit you from using the Internet and then making you pay the surplus" is complete bullcrap.

Maybe we lose more money in long term?
​

 

[Objection]

You don't have to tell her that her methods are bull. She has to tell you why they're good.

Also, considering that her best argument so far appears to be "unlimited internet will be abused", this seems like a trust issue.

 

[SkellyDuke]

You don't have to tell her that her methods are bull. She has to tell you why they're good.

Also, considering that her best argument so far appears to be "unlimited internet will be abused", this seems like a trust issue.

My mom and I have a hard time to get along if we're talking about money. Like I opened a new bank account when I got a job instead of using the "joint" account she made for me and her.​

 

[SkellyDuke]

i have a good idea that will solve ALL of this. steal the money you need to pay the bills from your moms purse. she'll be so happy you're paying the bills she won't notice that moneys missing from her purse. if that doesn't work kidnap your sister and make your mom pay ransom money. tell her the incident wouldn't have happened if you had unlimited internet as you wouldn't have had enough free time to go through with it.

hope i helped gl

That would work, but I'm not the kind of guy that would give in without a fight. And I'm not too much of a guy to ask for ransom, I'm too nice for that. Free time on Internet, I can get around that since I need to get out and hang out with friends more often (never got out when I was 12-16).

Back to the issue, what would be good ways of saying that we're too young and we don't have a high source of income (not at all for my young sister) all though we enjoy our time browsing the Internet?​

 

[Firestorm]

Explain to her that this is 2010 and that time has nothing to do with how limited 3GB of data is. My cell phone plan has double that. I've had to transfer files larger than 1GB for school before. I've had to download software packages over 3GB for school. Explain to her that this is not helping you, only hindering you.

 

[Exarius]

(never got out when I was 12-16).

Wait what? If this is the case, I am assuming you are 17. And if THIS is the case, I think there is some serious trust issues between you and your mom.

You need to explain to her (since it looks like she is the problem here) that you aren't her in her teen ages. Things have changed considerably from the 70's and 80's. And also tell her that her methods are wrong. Now her method is simply "My kids have a hobby (internet) and keeps contact with their friends (facebook, skype, msn). Lets punish them (having a bad IP and making you pay a bill which could easily be avoided)!" Tell her you are already a grown-up, you know how to balance your internet and real life, and now she is just hindering and trying to control your social life and other hobby (music). And if she wants your little sister to be less on the computer, she should suggest some hobbies that your sister would enjoy, instead of hindering something she enjoys.

Also, I totally agree with the first suggestion by Ace Matador, if everything else fails. If she realizes what's going on and confronts you about it, just tell her that she can't seriously expect a teenager without a real job to pay bills and studies. [/sarcasm]

EDIT: fuk, ninjaed by Firestorm. So what he said :p

 

[Fatecrashers]

Back to the issue, what would be good ways of saying that we're too young and we don't have a high source of income (not at all for my young sister) all though we enjoy our time browsing the Internet?

Just tell your parents straight exactly what you just typed here. If they are reasonable people a calm sensible argument on the ridiculousness of the limits they are imposing (both on internet usage and your ability to save for the future) should sway them from their current policy. If there's any people in the world you can be direct and honest with it should be your parents.

 

[Sy123]

Can you put a password on the computer?
You could ask if you could change the password, so your sister cant go on all the time, but you limit it to her to 2 hours a day?
You could always change the password in secret, but when they find out, your parents arent going to be happy ;)

Ask your parents whether you can upgrade your internet, on the sole reason, that you get the bills and everything.
Make some calculations, show your mom, that if you and you sister go on the internet a minimum of 6-7 hours a day, then show her with a different internet provider, that a cheaper deal is made.
If all else fails, then you could just get a more paying part-time job, impress your mom, with marks or something :)
Then just give her half your income, for the only condition that internet is upgraded and you pay the bills
Yes the last reason is bribery, but your family arent you :)

 

[Merlot]

I just hate it how my Mom just refuses to change and says that by having a very limited ISP is a good way to make use learn to not abuse of the computer when we have a Wii, 4 computers (and a laptop soon), 4 TVs, Satellite Receiver, 2 DS, 3 Printers and who-knows how many iPods.

​

I don't want to make any assumptions about your family's financial situation, but if your family can afford all these, having your extra income is probably not needed to keep your family afloat. It sounds like you want to start saving for university. Calmly explain that if you're forced to pay these unreasonable charges you won't be able to save enough to afford university, and that has to take precedence. If they are paying for your schooling this approach won't really work.

In that case, calmly explaining that paying for the internet charges is not your responsibility. (If you were the only reason that your family was getting the overage charges they would have a valid argument, but it sounds like they would surpass the limit regardless of you using it). I don't know about your school or general area- but in general there are places (school and library) where you can use the internet for free. You could attempt to call your Mom's bluff about canceling the internet, and see what she does- if your parents also need the internet (and in this day and age, everyone pretty much does) they probably won't cancel it. While only using the internet in public locations would suck, you might need to take that risk.

 

[God.]

kid 50 dollars a month is nothing working a 9.50 an hour job(shit thats a good min. wage). realize how easy you have it and just pay the damn bill, maybe learn some responsibility and some minuscule life experience.

 

[SkellyDuke]

Explain to her that this is 2010 and that time has nothing to do with how limited 3GB of data is. My cell phone plan has double that. I've had to transfer files larger than 1GB for school before. I've had to download software packages over 3GB for school. Explain to her that this is not helping you, only hindering you.

I think that's a valid argument. Thank you. The hindering part is very interesting. Not to be stereotypical, but I'm asian and yes, parents do care for marks. In other words, I'm getting my own laptop soon and I don't see the purpose of that without internet connectivity (my college is really fused with Internet

Wait what? If this is the case, I am assuming you are 17. And if THIS is the case, I think there is some serious trust issues between you and your mom.

You need to explain to her (since it looks like she is the problem here) that you aren't her in her teen ages. Things have changed considerably from the 70's and 80's. And also tell her that her methods are wrong. Now her method is simply "My kids have a hobby (internet) and keeps contact with their friends (facebook, skype, msn). Lets punish them (having a bad IP and making you pay a bill which could easily be avoided)!" Tell her you are already a grown-up, you know how to balance your internet and real life, and now she is just hindering and trying to control your social life and other hobby (music). And if she wants your little sister to be less on the computer, she should suggest some hobbies that your sister would enjoy, instead of hindering something she enjoys.

Also, I totally agree with the first suggestion by Ace Matador, if everything else fails. If she realizes what's going on and confronts you about it, just tell her that she can't seriously expect a teenager without a real job to pay bills and studies. [/sarcasm]

EDIT: fuk, ninjaed by Firestorm. So what he said :p

Yes, I am 17. There are lots of trust issues that still need to be discussed. It might be too soon to say, but I'm gay and probably all my friends know that, including my teachers, my sister and my cousins. It's all fine with my dad, but the real problem is with my mom and she has an easy time "convincing" him to think the same way she does.

I can easily balance my social life and internet life, but my parents just don't see that. For them, it's a maximum of 1 hour and maybe 2 a day. If I'm out with friends, they don't say much except that when I get home, they start talking about why am I using the computer if I played all day. There's no limit to fun...

My sister, of course, she's young and she needs to go outside and play, but it's the same thing that happened when I was young: overprotective and not inclined to let her go to friends (or have friends come over). I'm just happy I walked away from all of that.

Just tell your parents straight exactly what you just typed here. If they are reasonable people a calm sensible argument on the ridiculousness of the limits they are imposing (both on internet usage and your ability to save for the future) should sway them from their current policy. If there's any people in the world you can be direct and honest with it should be your parents.

Like I said before, it's a grave issue we're talking about. I have so many things my parents don't know that they even think I was taking drugs when I was hanging with friends too much. Did I mention I drank my first beer about 2 months ago? Guess they'll never know.

Can you put a password on the computer?
You could ask if you could change the password, so your sister cant go on all the time, but you limit it to her to 2 hours a day?
You could always change the password in secret, but when they find out, your parents arent going to be happy ;)

Ask your parents whether you can upgrade your internet, on the sole reason, that you get the bills and everything.
Make some calculations, show your mom, that if you and you sister go on the internet a minimum of 6-7 hours a day, then show her with a different internet provider, that a cheaper deal is made.
If all else fails, then you could just get a more paying part-time job, impress your mom, with marks or something :)
Then just give her half your income, for the only condition that internet is upgraded and you pay the bills
Yes the last reason is bribery, but your family arent you :)

I live in Montreal and here, a job is practically impossible to get and certainly at this time of the year. I was lucky enough to get this job and they're quite happy with it. My marks are not low at all, we're talking about high 80s here and maybe even some mid 90s.

I'm about to tell them about switching since this is nonsense paying an extra 5O$ to Videotron. I mean, there are cheaper alternatives that were discussed on this forum... really.

Oh, my sister has her own computer and I'll be in trouble if I try to screw around. My computer used to have a computer to "monitor" my usage, but this security feature got dropped because I needed the computer for unexpected reasons and on unexpected times.

I don't want to make any assumptions about your family's financial situation, but if your family can afford all these, having your extra income is probably not needed to keep your family afloat. It sounds like you want to start saving for university. Calmly explain that if you're forced to pay these unreasonable charges you won't be able to save enough to afford university, and that has to take precedence. If they are paying for your schooling this approach won't really work.

In that case, calmly explaining that paying for the internet charges is not your responsibility. (If you were the only reason that your family was getting the overage charges they would have a valid argument, but it sounds like they would surpass the limit regardless of you using it). I don't know about your school or general area- but in general there are places (school and library) where you can use the internet for free. You could attempt to call your Mom's bluff about canceling the internet, and see what she does- if your parents also need the internet (and in this day and age, everyone pretty much does) they probably won't cancel it. While only using the internet in public locations would suck, you might need to take that risk.

Bluffing with my mom would be quite interesting and I did that quite often I might say. She never manages to fully do it. Except once where she forced me to go into a certain college (but I don't really mind now... I'm only hating this a bit because I foolishly gave in after a fight!) because it "seemed" better and had a better general review when she discussed it with here colleagues. It's not responsibility, I like that! It's probably the word I have been looking for, but I said that in other words and she tells me about "You pay for what you have done".

kid 50 dollars a month is nothing working a 9.50 an hour job(shit thats a good min. wage). realize how easy you have it and just pay the damn bill, maybe learn some responsibility and some minuscule life experience.

High tax rate, I don't give in and it's not right to just force me to pay these kind of things. I'm still a kid and I need to save up for future studies.​

 

[cim]

It's like 1/6 of my iPod. I don't know how to tell her how her line of thinking of "we use Videotron to limit you from using the Internet and then making you pay the surplus" is complete bullcrap.

Maybe we lose more money in long term?
​

I mean, does your mom use Netflix on demand for example? Explaining that 3GB is less than an entire movie is a good way to put it in her terms.

I would go against what everyone says here and even though it is a trust issue, confronting your mom with accusations isn't going to get you what you want. You have to play at her level.

 

[SkellyDuke]

I mean, does your mom use Netflix on demand for example? Explaining that 3GB is less than an entire movie is a good way to put it in her terms.

I would go against what everyone says here and even though it is a trust issue, confronting your mom with accusations isn't going to get you what you want. You have to play at her level.

She just purchased a video-cube thing and I guess I could explain to her about getting her some movies.

Swoop to her level... hmm?​

 

[chaos]

Please stop indenting your posts/changing the color to gray.

 

[CaptainKishimoto]

My mom keeps saying if we don't pay, she'll cut the Internet.

You could always call her bluff. If she actually does it, you could always get a better plan/ISP.

 

[TubaKing]

Minimum Wage

kid 50 dollars a month is nothing working a 9.50 an hour job(shit thats a good min. wage).

I'm not sure where you're from, God., but Canadian dollars are worth slightly less than American dollars and Canadian minimum wage is generally higher than that of the United States. The lowest minimum wage in Canada is $8.00 (in British Columbia) and the lowest minimum wage in the US is $7.25 (by federal standards). The highest minimum wage in Canada (in Ontario) is $10.25 and the highest minimum wage in America (in Washington state) is $8.55. I don't really know how to compare the two once you factor in taxes and cost of living, but it looks like Canadians in general make more in minimum wage jobs than Americans do.
My source says that one Canadian dollar = [SIZE=-1]0.968335 American dollars, so the Canadian dollar is currently only worth about three cents less (in USD).

On topic: I completely agree with Firestorm here. Collect the facts and show your mother how much you can save by changing ISPs, as well as how little data 30 GB's is a month. Try not to insult her, but present the facts to her and help her understand your point of view with logic and facts.
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