Sword & Shield OU Analysis Discussion

I believe Thunder Wave should be slashed onto Hydreigon's Choice Scarf set or at least get a mention in its description.
Reasoning in Jordy's post and mine here.
 
Hi, there's my suggestion for Toxtricity moveset. I created a weird moveset, but i think it's fine to play
Toxtricity-Low-Key (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 128 HP / 128 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Acid Spray
- Toxic
- Protect
Boosted with Technician Power-Up Punch is a good move to play as a dps, but i prefer this new pokemon as a dps poisoning uhh tank? If you wanna play this as a full dps i prefer the boomburst moveset with punk rock Ability. I think you can play this in DOU with some fast pokemon.
 
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This is a really stupid question, but am I allowed to comment on other people’s work in progress analyses as a person who is not a member of the QC team?

(Also that Toxtricity set is ass, what are you trying to accomplish?)
 
CadmusRhodium said:
This is a really stupid question, but am I allowed to comment on other people’s work in progress analyses as a person who is not a member of the QC team?
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It's allowed but you should really only point out significant stuff that might've gone over the QC team's heads. There's really no point in commenting on WIP analyses that haven't even been worked on; there is no need to handhold writers to such an extent.
 
Gastrodon is lacking Toxic on its guide which is a huge update for it. It is also missing from the entire movepool down below.
 
Bowi said:
Gastrodon is lacking Toxic on its guide which is a huge update for it. It is also missing from the entire movepool down below.
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Toxic really isn't all that good; Gastrodon is almost always forced into using Amnesia or Clear Smog in the current metagame. The fact that it's missing from the entire movepool below is not within our control. You should report that here or here instead.
 
While I was reading the Galarian Weezing OU analysis, I noticed Levitate is the suggested ability. However, Weezing's main niche in OU is being one of the most solid checks to Conkeldurr, and this can only be achieved thanks to Neutralizing Gas suppressing Guts. Neutralizing Gas also suppresses a number of abilities like Regenerator, Natural Cure, Magic Guard, Magic Bounce (allowing it to be a solid Toxic Spikes user), Arena Trap (although Levitate does this better), Skill Link, Flash Fire, weather abilities, Levitate (if Rotom switches on Weezing it will be poisoned by Toxic Spikes). The benefits of these ability suppressions are variable but overall they are more advantageous than Levitate which only really helps against Hippo and maybe Seismitoad.
 
Talpr0ne said:
While I was reading the Galarian Weezing OU analysis, I noticed Levitate is the suggested ability. However, Weezing's main niche in OU is being one of the most solid checks to Conkeldurr, and this can only be achieved thanks to Neutralizing Gas suppressing Guts. Neutralizing Gas also suppresses a number of abilities like Regenerator, Natural Cure, Magic Guard, Magic Bounce (allowing it to be a solid Toxic Spikes user), Arena Trap (although Levitate does this better), Skill Link, Flash Fire, weather abilities, Levitate (if Rotom switches on Weezing it will be poisoned by Toxic Spikes). The benefits of these ability suppressions are variable but overall they are more advantageous than Levitate which only really helps against Hippo and maybe Seismitoad.
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The current Galarian Weezing analysis was written for a completely different meta (right after the Galarian Darmanitan ban). We have no intention of editing analyses of Pokemon that are not deemed viable enough to be on the viability rankings. Galarian Weezing falls under this. The only reason it previously got an analysis is because it's a newly introduced Pokemon and those get looked up a lot, especially during the early months of a Pokemon games' life time.
 
Given that Metronome "no longer" allows Zeraora to break past Clef, I think the All-out Attacker set analysis should approach the Metronome mention from a different angle (idk, maybe it allows Zera to clean weakened teams more easily?) or replace it with a different item (or just add mentions to other alternatives)
 
Hello, I would like to propose adding "/ Modest" to scarf Hydreigon's nature. I explain in depth here why I think Modest adds value to scarf Hydreigon, but essentially I feel like the added power from Modest can be very significant, especially when using Fire Blast for max SpDef Corviknight. Timid Fire Blast goes from only a 14.8% chance to 2HKO max SpDef Corviknight after leftovers to 89.1% with Modest, and a guaranteed 2HKO with rocks. This can be an important difference because Corviknight can PP stall Timid Fire Blast fairly consistently. Also, unless I'm overlooking something, I feel like there isn't much that Timid scarf Hydreigon outruns that Modest doesn't. The two big examples I could think of are scarfed Rotoms and Excadrill after a spin. I don't think that Rotoms are too much of an issue, unless they're running Thunder Wave, but Heat and Wash typically have Toxic or Wisp for Seismitoad. I admit that Drill being faster after a spin can be bad, but since Modest Fire Blast is a guaranteed OHKO (Timid Fire Blast is also only a 50% chance to OHKO, which can be big against Sand Rush Drill) and Drill's unboosted Earthquake only does 56.6-66.7% against Hydreigon, Hydreigon can still often come out on top. Please read my post that I linked for some additional calculations and reasoning, but I feel like Modest scarf Hydreigon adds enough benefits without too many downsides to warrant being mentioned in the analysis.
 
Speed tying with other Choice Scarf Hydreigon's really important and Modest doesn't really improve enough damage rolls significantly to justify being slower than other Choice Scarf Hydreigon.
 
Jordy said:
Speed tying with other Choice Scarf Hydreigon's really important and Modest doesn't really improve enough damage rolls significantly to justify being slower than other Choice Scarf Hydreigon.
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Yeah, I agree that automatically losing the speed tie against other scarf Hydreigons is bad, but I also feel like it's rare for 2 scarf Hydreigons to face off with neither being choice-locked into something other than Draco. A -2 Draco from Timid Hydreigon also only does 68.9-81.8%, so the Modest one could get a guaranteed revenge kill regardless, if healthy enough. Going for speed ties anyway isn't ideal, but I get that sometimes you need to.

I do feel like some improved rolls do justify considering Modest over Timid. The Corviknight and Excadrill roles with Fire Blast that I mentioned before can be big against the 3rd and 4th most used Pokemon in March. Modest Draco also has an 87.5% chance to OHKO Zeraora after rocks, but Timid is only a 31.3% chance. I feel like that's a significant improvement in the likelihood to revenge kill one of scarf Hydreigon's biggest targets. Modest Dark Pulse also has a chance, although a small one at 12.5%, to OHKO Aegislash-Shield after rocks, while Timid can never OHKO. Corviknight, Excadrill, Zeraora, and Aegislash were 4 of the top 12 most used Pokemon in March, so I feel like improving the damage rolls against them are all relevant.

I understand that Timid scarf Hydreigon offers benefits over Modest and I'm not arguing that it should be replaced. I just feel like Modest offers enough specific benefits with few downsides (mainly Drill after a spin, opposing Timid scarf Hydreigons, and sometimes scarf Rotoms) to deserve being mentioned as an option, especially since the Nasty Plot analysis directly above it lists "Timid / Modest" while citing the improved damage rolls against Clefable. +2 Timid Flash Cannon has a 12.5% chance to OHKO max SpDef Clefable, but +2 Modest Flash Cannon is a 68.8% chance. That's an important roll, but I think that the downsides for Modest Nasty Plot Hydreigon being outrun by unboosted Drill, Kyurem, jolly Mimikyu (matters if busted), and by your logic, other Timid Hydreigons are far worse than the downsides of scarf Hydreigon being modest. I don't see why if the Nasty Plot analysis considers Modest, the scarf set shouldn't as well.
 
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The comparison between Nasty Plot Hydreigon and Choice Scarf Hydreigon's natures is completely unrelated and frankly pointless to discuss. As long as Modest Choice Scarf Hydreigon is not actually run to any important capacity, which it's currently not, it will not be slashed or even mentioned.
 
Jordy said:
The comparison between Nasty Plot Hydreigon and Choice Scarf Hydreigon's natures is completely unrelated and frankly pointless to discuss. As long as Modest Choice Scarf Hydreigon is not actually run to any important capacity, which it's currently not, it will not be slashed or even mentioned.
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Ok, I respect your decision. I was just trying to see if other people saw the value in considering Modest scarf Hydreigon, but I apologize if I came off as confrontational by comparing it to the Nasty Plot analysis - that was not my intention. I also didn't realize that you wrote the Hydreigon analyses.
 
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I'm not sure if the banded Tyranitar set was pre-home or if you're looking to revise the older sets yet, but I think that Aqua Tail may be worth slashing with Earthquake. The set with Earthquake gets completely walled by Hippowdon and Aqua Tail retains some of the same coverage as EQ but adds ground coverage in exchange for poison, steel, and electric. The only real poison problem is Pex but Stone Edge is still 91.8% chance to 2HKO with sand and guaranteed with rocks. You do have to deal with the lower accuracy and PP though. Fire Punch and Crunch already cover all of the other notable steel types. The only electric type in OU that can be hit by EQ is Zeraora, and Stone Edge OHKOs it (although it's never switching into Tar anyway). Even if Toxtricity and Dracozolt rise in usage with Arena Trap banned, Stone Edge and Crunch both always OHKO Toxtricity and Stone Edge OHKOs Dracozolt 62.5% of the time and is guaranteed after rocks. Again, neither Toxtricity nor Dracozolt are switching into Tar anyway so those calcs probably don't really matter. Aqua Tail is just a worse move than Earthquake (having 10 lower BP and 10 lower accuracy) but the only notable calc I could think of with the difference is EQ having a 93.8% chance to OHKO other banded Tars and AT only having a 37.5% chance. Both are guaranteed to OHKO with rocks though and it's rare for two banded Tars to face off. I've heard Toxic suggested as well over EQ for Hippo and Toad, which I could see as a possibility. AT does a chunk to Hippo (50.9-60.0% even with max physical defense, which is an 85.9% chance to 2HKO and guaranteed with rocks) and Crunch does 45.8-54.3% to Toad, but Toxic could be nicer over a longer game.

Anyway, my point is I was wondering if adding Aqua Tail or possibly Toxic over Earthquake on banded Tar would be worth considering to prevent him getting walled by Hippo?
 
It's from before the Arena Trap ban; we haven't updated that many Pokemon yet because the metagame needs to stabilize first. We'll consider the options you have outlined once we're ready for it.
 
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