They have wisp alongside twave
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
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It's double status
That's actually the novelty of Sub NP! You take what people expect as a defensive set and exploit the standard reactions to Pdef Rotom.
I decided to us specially defensive great tusk in order to maximize the likelyhood of beating gholdengo
Great Tusk @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Headlong Rush
- Close Combat
- Rapid Spin
great task only needs to worry about 2 gholdengo items: air balloon and choice specs.
so scenario one:
gholdengo with air baloon:
gholdengo with modest nature and 252 sp.atk evs can deal a maximum of 41.7% it is not enough for 2HKO wether it chooses to attack with make it rain or psychic meaning that great tusk can easily afford to pop the balloon with knock off thus injuring gholdengo and then finish it with headlong rush.
scenario two:
gholdengo is using choice specs.
gholdengo with modest nature and 252 sp.atk can deal a maximum of 62.44% meaning that great tusk can guarantee a OHKO with headlong rush although it may need to terastilize since if gholgengo has maxed out defense then the OHKO will not be guaranteed.
Great Tusk @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Headlong Rush
- Close Combat
- Rapid Spin
great task only needs to worry about 2 gholdengo items: air balloon and choice specs.
so scenario one:
gholdengo with air baloon:
gholdengo with modest nature and 252 sp.atk evs can deal a maximum of 41.7% it is not enough for 2HKO wether it chooses to attack with make it rain or psychic meaning that great tusk can easily afford to pop the balloon with knock off thus injuring gholdengo and then finish it with headlong rush.
scenario two:
gholdengo is using choice specs.
gholdengo with modest nature and 252 sp.atk can deal a maximum of 62.44% meaning that great tusk can guarantee a OHKO with headlong rush although it may need to terastilize since if gholgengo has maxed out defense then the OHKO will not be guaranteed.
Thanks for the feedback everyone, here’s the revised jolteon set
Jolteon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Yawn/Shadow ball
- Tera Blast
- Volt Switch
If chien pao gets banned you might be able to get away with modest, but for now I think jolly is better all around for now.
Jolteon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Yawn/Shadow ball
- Tera Blast
- Volt Switch
If chien pao gets banned you might be able to get away with modest, but for now I think jolly is better all around for now.
Kingambit @ Leftovers
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Kowtow Cleave
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
here ya go pal
Honestly, love this sets, there's a lot of stuff that i wanna personally work on, one of them being Eerie Impulse rotom wash, because I do believe that it's actually good, but I love the creativity some people will get out of mons that most believe are done, and its potential is just a squareI noticed there isn't a thread for underrated (/ creative) sets yet, so I'll just post it here. Rotom-W is in my opinion easily a top 10 mon in the tier at the moment. It consistently runs into favorable matchups as popular archetypes like bulky offense generally don't have great Wisp switchins and can't afford giving away too much momentum to Voltturn spam. The standard PDef set with Protect is the best fit for most teams, but I think there are two other amazing sets.
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunder Wave
This is just the standard PDef set but with Thunder Wave over Protect. Protect is obviously great to get extra Leftovers recovery, get additional burn chip and to simply scout the opponent's sets, but I find it not as useful on teams without Great Tusk. Rotom-W is usually the early game pivot into opposing Great Tusk if you don't have a Great Tusk yourself, so in a lot of matchups you won't be playing with Leftovers. Protect is still a useful move from time to time but definitely less impactful without lefties recovery. Thunder Wave is a great alternative to cripple special attackers that are used to soak up the Will-o-Wisp like Iron Valiant and Dragapult and it's great as a last resort against set up sweepers like Volcarona, Espathra, and CM Valiant, although it's often necessary to use your Tera Steel. There are a few other minor advantages such as dealing with Tera 50/50s against the likes of Tera Fire Kingambit.
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Discharge
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
Balance and bulky offense often resort to awkward pivotting to play around Wisp and Volt Switch and this set takes full advantage of that. Pokemon like Toxapex turn from a great switchin to standard PDef Rotom-W into setup fodder for SubNP Rotom-W. With the combination of Subsitute, Levitate, and Tera Ghost it also has a great 1v1 matchup against all Garganacl sets (Curse boosted Salt Cure breaks the Sub but Garg can't take a boosted Hydro Pump). I've tried playing around with a set of Nasty Plot, Thunder Wave, and Hex with Tera Ghost but it's very inconsistent and requires quite a lot of support. It's a fun set to use on mid ladder but I wouldn't recommend it personally.
I'd like to discuss Espathra for a bit as it's been somewhat of a talking point during the first few weeks of SPL.
Espathra's been on the radar for a while and for good reason, the sweeps can seem unstoppable if you don't have a few specific checks for it, but it never got banned as those checks do exist and of course are pretty common right now in things like sucker punch, ice shard, espeed dnite, fast scarfers, trick, whirlwind or status like tspikes or salt cure. Thing is that counterplay to espathra often weakens your team or puts you in a spot that can be capitalized on by other opposing pokemon.
Take for instance this week's battle between Savouras and TPP.
On turn 2, Gholdengo is in vs espathra with a sub and no boosts. This happened in this case cause of shed tail but it just as easily could have been espathra using its own sub while gholdengo switches in (common scenario). Shadow ball is enough to break the sub easily even at +1 but then Espathra goes tera fire. Gholdengo stays in and loses the calm mind - tera blast mindgame, but it's ok, Clodsire is an emergency check on Savouras's team as it can tera dark to block stored power, and unaware prevents runaway calm minds. Perfect right? Except not because suddenly Savouras has no more fairy resists on the team, having lost one to Espathra straight up and a second to his own tera.
The game gets a bit more sloppy after this with some Hydro Misses and a pointless Chien-Pao sack but the damage was already done. It's not just that Espathra can sweep unprotected teams with ease, but it can also break during early-mid game with little to no support in order for its teammates to clean up later. It uses up tera to be most effective but its checks often tera in return to avoid it. Outside of a full health Tng Lu there really are not any viable 100% counters and checking it often comes down to coin flips on tera type, sub mindgames, and other trades. Espathra is really quite an unhealthy pokemon and I think it's gotta go
I just took a look at that... Yikes. Like, major yikes. That Espathra just blunt force dented their team by nuking a check and forcing the second to die to a teammate. But this pretty much sums up how things go with Espathra if you don't run 50 checks to the damn thing... It can just blow holes in entire teams between Shed Tail passing/Subbing on a switch, and then you have to play the Tera/Coverage prediction game... It feels like the only SEMI-RELIABLE check to it is Unaware Skeledirge... Depending upon Espathra's Tera Type and if it carries Tera Blast or not. Even then, vs the Protect set, it can be 50/50.
I'd like to discuss Espathra for a bit as it's been somewhat of a talking point during the first few weeks of SPL.
Espathra's been on the radar for a while and for good reason, the sweeps can seem unstoppable if you don't have a few specific checks for it, but it never got banned as those checks do exist and of course are pretty common right now in things like sucker punch, ice shard, espeed dnite, fast scarfers, trick, whirlwind or status like tspikes or salt cure. Thing is that counterplay to espathra often weakens your team or puts you in a spot that can be capitalized on by other opposing pokemon.
Take for instance this week's battle between Savouras and TPP.
On turn 2, Gholdengo is in vs espathra with a sub and no boosts. This happened in this case cause of shed tail but it just as easily could have been espathra using its own sub while gholdengo switches in (common scenario). Shadow ball is enough to break the sub easily even at +1 but then Espathra goes tera fire. Gholdengo stays in and loses the calm mind - tera blast mindgame, but it's ok, Clodsire is an emergency check on Savouras's team as it can tera dark to block stored power, and unaware prevents runaway calm minds. Perfect right? Except not because suddenly Savouras has no more fairy resists on the team, having lost one to Espathra straight up and a second to his own tera.
The game gets a bit more sloppy after this with some Hydro Misses and a pointless Chien-Pao sack but the damage was already done. It's not just that Espathra can sweep unprotected teams with ease, but it can also break during early-mid game with little to no support in order for its teammates to clean up later. It uses up tera to be most effective but its checks often tera in return to avoid it. Outside of a full health Tng Lu there really are not any viable 100% counters and checking it often comes down to coin flips on tera type, sub mindgames, and other trades. Espathra is really quite an unhealthy pokemon and I think it's gotta go
Those two Hydro Misses whiffing their target was also critical, as if the first one hit, Valiant would've been dented heavily. Then he could've Volt Switched on the second turn to gain momentum... But Chien-Pao and Dengo were both still gone. That whole game was just... Awful. I feel like I need a shower after watching that.
Off topic: There's no reliable way to really set Electric Terrain, is there? We have Pinchurchin... But slotting that onto a team feels like a waste, especially if it's only going to boost one mon.
If you want to make an electric terrain team its gonna need more than 1 mon to boost, Quark Drive mons are inherently more offensive oriented than Protosynthesis ones, all of them are offensive pokemon so the boost of stat they get matter way more than the protosynthesis ones, and with that Quark Drive boost + an item mons like Iron Valiant, Iron Thorns and Iron Treads suddenly become uber like threats.
Iron Hands as a fat swords dancer or bulky pivot,
Iron Thorns amazing bulk and good movepool to boost up and sweep with dragon dance,
Iron Jugulis with specs outspeeding a large amount of the meta and hitting back with powerful hurricane,
Iron Moth With its special attack boost + specs nuking everything,
Iron Treads as a fast utility pokemon,
Iron Valiant straight up is an Uber under terrain, run anything and it would just destroy.
The comparison i like to make is, electric terrain essentially makes you run 5.5 pokemon vs 6, but of the 5 pokemon, you get access to Ubers level pokemon for a set amount of turns.
https://pokepast.es/57ac901425d5b73a
https://pokepast.es/530626bb48ca3640
(keep in mind pincurchin can run recover, i just like a more HO approach to e-terrain)
two teams for example that i used in the past, tho i havent used much of it recently so they may very well be outdated.
They're definetly viable and far from awful, but can sometimes be inconsistent. (tho ig rn it would be a good time to use it due to the rise of psyterrain HOs).
Oh and i should mention, pincurchin is NOT awful, it is lack luster but it can work decent enough as a memento spiker, wall with recover and can beat its counter on the switch with moves like hydro pump
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You’re right that the game went poorly but espathra only won twice last week and three teams have it this week. However, 3 teams have espathra this week with two of them losing and one of them couldn’t sweep due to clodsire but iron valiant sealed the win for him. I wouldn’t consider ting-lu or clodsire a hinderance to the team building since it’s useful in teams that you are creating. Those Pokémon may not be for espathra but could be in team preview. Either way, I don’t find it that broken tbh just by watching one game where it went south. If we accumulate all games of espathra of the Spl, it isn’t that bad but a cry for help that really isn’t needed atm.
I'd like to discuss Espathra for a bit as it's been somewhat of a talking point during the first few weeks of SPL.
Espathra's been on the radar for a while and for good reason, the sweeps can seem unstoppable if you don't have a few specific checks for it, but it never got banned as those checks do exist and of course are pretty common right now in things like sucker punch, ice shard, espeed dnite, fast scarfers, trick, whirlwind or status like tspikes or salt cure. Thing is that counterplay to espathra often weakens your team or puts you in a spot that can be capitalized on by other opposing pokemon.
Take for instance this week's battle between Savouras and TPP.
On turn 2, Gholdengo is in vs espathra with a sub and no boosts. This happened in this case cause of shed tail but it just as easily could have been espathra using its own sub while gholdengo switches in (common scenario). Shadow ball is enough to break the sub easily even at +1 but then Espathra goes tera fire. Gholdengo stays in and loses the calm mind - tera blast mindgame, but it's ok, Clodsire is an emergency check on Savouras's team as it can tera dark to block stored power, and unaware prevents runaway calm minds. Perfect right? Except not because suddenly Savouras has no more fairy resists on the team, having lost one to Espathra straight up and a second to his own tera.
The game gets a bit more sloppy after this with some Hydro Misses and a pointless Chien-Pao sack but the damage was already done. It's not just that Espathra can sweep unprotected teams with ease, but it can also break during early-mid game with little to no support in order for its teammates to clean up later. It uses up tera to be most effective but its checks often tera in return to avoid it. Outside of a full health Tng Lu there really are not any viable 100% counters and checking it often comes down to coin flips on tera type, sub mindgames, and other trades. Espathra is really quite an unhealthy pokemon and I think it's gotta go
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After losing 5+ matches to pyro ball and high jump kick misses for my own sanity my bid for reqs is over.
That being said like almost every single Pokémon we’ve banned this Gen pao is broken almost solely because Tera.
That being said like almost every single Pokémon we’ve banned this Gen pao is broken almost solely because Tera.
Um, what? Chien-Pao will be the second ban where terastalization was a factor, after Annihilape, and like the Ape it's the final push, not the primary issue.
Flutter Mane and Iron Bundle have too much speed and power, alongside great STAB coverage.
Cyclizar is too perfect an abuser of Shed Tail.
Houndstone is banned due to Last Respects, and will be unbanned the instant another mon gets the move.
Chi-Yu has too much raw fire-power, much like Chien-Pao, trading away speed for even more damage.
Palafin was too strong in general, too much of everything all at once.
Chien-Pao has 135 speed, and two flavors of priority move to back it up against anyone who tries to go that route. If it had middling attack, that would be one thing, but it hits as hard as boosted Roaring Moon, too. It's a very silly mon for the same reason Chi-Yu was; it's just not *quite* as broken.
i probably should of clarified, I meant besides the obvious quick ban shit (last respects flutter bundle palafin)
I think yu pao or ape likely wouldnt be banned if Tera wasnt a thing. And even if they where they’d likely be unbanned after either the home drop or the DLC drop.
This is a little cap, Chi-Yu would be banned regardless of tera or not, It didn't need tera to make it over the top while you can argue otherwise for (Ape, Pao, and Espathra).
CAP. Cyclizar and Palafin for example were definitely not banned because of Tera.
I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here. No one's calling Ting-Lu or Clodsire a hindrance to tesmbuilding, they are great mons. But they shouldn't be some of the only consistent answers to Espathra on a short list of mons that can even somewhat handle it. Even in games with supposed checks, it can still win. For example, in elodin vs Ruft, on turn 12, Garganacl was pressured into recovering by Roaring Moon, which gave a free switch to Espathra, which proceeded to sub and boost. Ruft switches to Skeledirge after a couple turns, a decent check to Espathra normally as it ignores calm mind boosts and can threaten even a subbed bird with Torch Song which will eventually KO it. But Espathra muscles through anyways and proceeds to sweep despite Clodsire also existing, and supposedly checking it as well.
How about Chef Tribal vs Ima? Ima's opponent brought trickscarf Gholdengo and Kingambit, two mons that can semi check Espathra situationally. Chef Tribal first broke Espathra's sub passed from Orthworm with nasty plot boosted Discharge, which could also cripple the bird's speed (it didn't), even terastilizing steel to tank Stored Power to try and threaten it, and Espathra's stored Power wasn't breaking 50% against Steel Washtom. But then Ima teras Espathra into fighting and KOs Wash. Chef Tribal brings out trickscarf Gholdengo, which could cripple Espathra. But Espathra uses substitute, blocks trick and forces Chef to switch back and forth between Kingambit and Gholdengo, in an attempt to PP stall it. Eventually failing and losing after Gambit falls.
Of course the example Duck Chris brought with Savouras vs TPP, which is arguably the most egregious example yet. I kind of have to take issue with something you said especially,
Here, you almost seem to dismiss Espathra's impact and attribute the win to Iron Valiant, despite the fact that, as Duck Chris pointed out, Espathra effectively removed both fairy resists back to back by KOing Gholdengo and forcing Clod to tera so it wouldn't sweep. This just made Clod unable to check what it was originally put on a team to check (fairies), effectively making it worse in that context (Also regarding usage and win/loss, some of the games where it was on a losing teams Espathra wasn't even sent out, so that doesn't exactly reflect on it).
Espathra doesn't have to always sweep to be considered ridiculous. The effect it places on building, just for fear of it appearing is ridiculous. This Pokemon has flown under the radar because there was a mistaken belief that Cyclizar's exit would reign it in, but we've seen multiple examples of this not being the case. It's since risen to OU by usage, after failing to do so during the months when it was first being argued as broken. Its presence is negative for the tier, and I hope more people start to talk about it.
I mean, this is still the case even with tera still being around - some things are likely to get retested when either Home or DLC comes including Tera itself.
Maye
have a read, I think you’ll like it.
basically with protect and mild SpA investment, it beats even 252/252 calm dirge, that’s definitely a notable achievement!
with sub it can muscle past things like garganacl and other soft hitting walls like toxapex without needing to trade.
espathra can be used to force trades or heavily weaken its best checks. For example breaking a calm 252 skeledirge to then get KOd by priority on the next turn now means Volcarona / iron moth / valiant has a field day.
Or, if the conditions are right, just sweep and end the game right there.
this isn’t even about “surprising” an opponent because they used trick, without knowing you had sub. This set can get you consistent results on ladder against some of the best players, who know if you’re running sub or protect,
why? because it forces outcomes.
Against the best players, it can even force their hand at which Pokémon they choose to Tera, or which Pokémon they can’t risk using as a damage sponge against your partners. They really have to get every turn right trying to double switch to prevent you from getting an advantage state.
Definition of advantage state: when your significant threat forces out the opposing Pokémon, or can setup in the face of the matchup without significant consequence.
protect: beats fast, hard hitting teams that won’t give you much chances to hit the critical +2 calm minds or +2 speed. Best bet against priority spam. Also the only way to beat hard switch 252 calm dirge.
sub: beats a lot of walls that can’t hit you hard enough without status, gives you a chance for +2 calm minds. Gives you easy reads when someone knows you’re running sub (example: tox won’t stay in to toxic, it’s gonna hard switch to 100% specs pult to KO it/force Tera and u turn , or 70% gholdengo to trade it, force your Tera and/or get you into KO range)
example: opponent knows your Tera type is fairy and that you’re running protect not sub, this means their offense + bulky geared team will struggle if kingambit goes sub 50% after getting tricked a scarf when it switched into your gholdengo. The 72% kingambit now can’t be switched in too often as you have spikes + SR, so opponent has to get every double switch right to pressure you into eventually folding a Pokémon.
example 2: opponent knows you’re running sub and not protect, your opponent sure as hell ain’t gonna be keeping clodsire, amoonguss or garganacl a single turn in that they don’t need to. You take advantage of this easy read and double switch to put them on the back foot until they’re forced to trade or sack something.
the best players are experienced, they know that you have to switch in a 252 calm dirge on espathra turn 1 to beat it. Don’t risk giving it a second free turn. But then, if they can’t even reliably beat espathra with that… then you got a powerful runaway freight train.
I agree with your sentiments and posted as such previously in the questionnaire discussion.
I did a whole write up on espathra and how it has a sub set and a protect set which allows it to wall break past its best checks.
have a read, I think you’ll like it.
basically with protect and mild SpA investment, it beats even 252/252 calm dirge, that’s definitely a notable achievement!
with sub it can muscle past things like garganacl and other soft hitting walls like toxapex without needing to trade.
espathra can be used to force trades or heavily weaken its best checks. For example breaking a calm 252 skeledirge to then get KOd by priority on the next turn now means Volcarona / iron moth / valiant has a field day.
Or, if the conditions are right, just sweep and end the game right there.
this isn’t even about “surprising” an opponent because they used trick, without knowing you had sub. This set can get you consistent results on ladder against some of the best players, who know if you’re running sub or protect,
why? because it forces outcomes.
Against the best players, it can even force their hand at which Pokémon they choose to Tera, or which Pokémon they can’t risk using as a damage sponge against your partners. They really have to get every turn right trying to double switch to prevent you from getting an advantage state.
Definition of advantage state: when your significant threat forces out the opposing Pokémon, or can setup in the face of the matchup without significant consequence.
protect: beats fast, hard hitting teams that won’t give you much chances to hit the critical +2 calm minds or +2 speed. Best bet against priority spam. Also the only way to beat hard switch 252 calm dirge.
sub: beats a lot of walls that can’t hit you hard enough without status, gives you a chance for +2 calm minds. Gives you easy reads when someone knows you’re running sub (example: tox won’t stay in to toxic, it’s gonna hard switch to 100% specs pult to KO it/force Tera and u turn , or 70% gholdengo to trade it, force your Tera and/or get you into KO range)
example: opponent knows your Tera type is fairy and that you’re running protect not sub, this means their offense + bulky geared team will struggle if kingambit goes sub 50% after getting tricked a scarf when it switched into your gholdengo. The 72% kingambit now can’t be switched in too often as you have spikes + SR, so opponent has to get every double switch right to pressure you into eventually folding a Pokémon.
example 2: opponent knows you’re running sub and not protect, your opponent sure as hell ain’t gonna be keeping clodsire, amoonguss or garganacl a single turn in that they don’t need to. You take advantage of this easy read and double switch to put them on the back foot until they’re forced to trade or sack something.
the best players are experienced, they know that you have to switch in a 252 calm dirge on espathra turn 1 to beat it. Don’t risk giving it a second free turn. But then, if they can’t even reliably beat espathra with that… then you got a powerful runaway freight train.
I agree with your sentiments and posted as such previously in the questionnaire discussion.
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Yeah, I was thinking of trying to find some way to slot it onto a team, and these team designs are certainly an interesting take. But since the only Quark mon I have to boost from it that I was drafting with was Valiant, I doubt adding in Pinchurchin just to let it smack harder wouldn't really be worth it.
hello ou! I'm here with another stupid niche set for you all to go "huh, thats neat" to!
Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Thief
- Defog
so yknow how in past gens we sometimes saw defog kartana as an offensive fogger? this set aims to be something similar, just... less good. not to say I think this set is bad, I actually think it's pretty decent, but it requires a certain team structure for it to work properly, this set really wants a more offensively oriented team, one that doesn't mind hazards being up, and ideally only requires removal once or twice a match. this scizor set aims to fufil this role well, taking advantage of its great role compression, in this case, its a pivot, a revenge killer and a defogger all while maintaining a good defensive profile.
now, it's no secret that this defog is anything but reliable, especially since your choice locked into it, but you'd be suprised just how many switches sciz forces that can be capitalized on (including band chien-pao depending on what it's locked into), thief also lets it smack gholdengo on the switch meaning ghold does little to get in the way of it defogging.
as an example of scizor in action, Here is a tour game I played that showcases the set to a good deal of success. with the opponents ting-lu acting as a consistent point of entry for scizor, giving it a number of free turns on the switches that it forces with ease. it only cleared the field once, but that was really the only time it needed to, as it prevented the spike damage from wearing down my magnezone and amoongus giving me a considerable advantage.
I like ending off posts like this with some questions, so:
1. have you been finding success with scizor? if so, with what sets have you been finding success with?
2. are there any other alternate hazard removal forms you've been experimenting with?
thats all for now, thanks for reading!
Scizor @ Choice Band Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Thief
- Defog
so yknow how in past gens we sometimes saw defog kartana as an offensive fogger? this set aims to be something similar, just... less good. not to say I think this set is bad, I actually think it's pretty decent, but it requires a certain team structure for it to work properly, this set really wants a more offensively oriented team, one that doesn't mind hazards being up, and ideally only requires removal once or twice a match. this scizor set aims to fufil this role well, taking advantage of its great role compression, in this case, its a pivot, a revenge killer and a defogger all while maintaining a good defensive profile.
now, it's no secret that this defog is anything but reliable, especially since your choice locked into it, but you'd be suprised just how many switches sciz forces that can be capitalized on (including band chien-pao depending on what it's locked into), thief also lets it smack gholdengo on the switch meaning ghold does little to get in the way of it defogging.
as an example of scizor in action, Here is a tour game I played that showcases the set to a good deal of success. with the opponents ting-lu acting as a consistent point of entry for scizor, giving it a number of free turns on the switches that it forces with ease. it only cleared the field once, but that was really the only time it needed to, as it prevented the spike damage from wearing down my magnezone and amoongus giving me a considerable advantage.
I like ending off posts like this with some questions, so:
1. have you been finding success with scizor? if so, with what sets have you been finding success with?
2. are there any other alternate hazard removal forms you've been experimenting with?
thats all for now, thanks for reading!
i wouldn't see anything wrong with pincurchin if it had access to volt switch or just any pivoting move like tapu koko did. being unable to bring in teammates safely is definitely a huge detractor and is something that hinders pincurchin as a setter. it has some nice utility moves and can stay healthy with recover so it can definitely sustain itself and support its team well, i'm just iffy about the lack of ways to get the abusers in without them eating a ton of damage from an incoming hit (unless it's something like a draco meteor onto iron valiant). it's also somewhat passive but dealing damage is not what pincurchin aims to do so it gets a pass in that regard. and its STAB boosted by terrain can actually punch some holes into some pokemon so it does have that going for it. it's just that it not getting volt switch really sucks for it
TLDR: usable pokemon but lack of pivoting hurts it a bit in how well it can support its team
I searched this thread for "Espathra" so I've only just seen this post. Anyway, I did a thorough optimisation of Modest EVs with Substitute and came up with 3 spreads:
Espathra @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Fairy / Fire / Fighting
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA / 32 Spe
EVs: 216 HP / 92 Def / 168 SpA / 32 Spe
EVs: 192 HP / 168 SpA / 4 SpD / 144 Spe (for Dragapult)
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Dazzling Gleam / Tera Blast
The first EV spread is perfectly fine as a standalone sweeper that doesn't require any support to do Espathra things. Go to the explanation in the Espathra thread, where much of the nuance applies to the second spread as well.
The other 2 EV spreads are designed for Screens support, because they straight up win the 1v1 vs 252/252+ Skeledirge. Assume Light Screen is up:
Turn 1: Substitute, Skeledirge switches in
Turn 2: Calm Mind and Tera Fairy, Torch Song
Turn 3: Calm Mind, +1 Torch Song
Turn 4: Stored Power (160), +2 Torch Song
Turn 5: Stored Power (180), RIP Skeledirge
Skeledirge fails to kill Espathra with 3 consecutive max rolls (after Leftovers). Stored Power 2HKOs Skeledirge with 2 consecutive min rolls, so Espathra beats its "counter" and emerges from the fight at +2 SpAtt with a 200 BP Stored Power behind a sub. Now imagine Tera Fire for the Torch Song resist.
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Is there anywhere one can see all the upcoming Home additions and their SV data?
If you mean data for "in code but not available legally yet", most of the Pokemon have Gen 9 learnsets on Bulbapedia if you want to look there. Not immediately sure about a comprehensive list of them. That said I don't think much is to be said until Home gets a hard release window compared to the meta we have now.
Also realizing a bit late this probably should have been in "Simple Questions"
It should've, yeah, my bad. Posted on the wrong tab. Thanks!
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