Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[Cuddly]

Umm in RBY Ubers if your opponent froze your own mewtwo you instantly lost the game. I do agree with the freeze clause idea though.

Yeah I know. RBY also had Counter/Psywave patched too. (also not 100% sure about this but the regular OU meta allows for impossible stats on Pokemon without first breeding them in Gen 2. Like for example you can’t get a perfect IV Tauros in the wild. This is weird since Pure and Tradeback metas are both different).

But yeah it feels wrong that only Sleep Clause exists as an intentional break from cart mechanics in modern gens, while past gens also get Freeze Clause and desync patches. Understandable when it’s unintentional like Body Slam being able to paralyze normal types in RBY and Metronome (Item) not maintaining boosts through moves failing.

 

[miguel345]

When do the tier shifts happen?

 

[BolTingBlazie]

structurally, gholdengo and kingambit aren't even good in my head, mechanically, they're just a strong steel special attack and a gimmick ability with a powerful signature move that enables said ability, that being said there is no niche if you know what gimmicks you're hitting

Gholdengo has a solid stat spread, but Kingambit is crazy minmaxed for it's bst along with being a strong dark type on top of that

 

[Jonbot]

Anyway, we are getting drops to UU and rises soon so that's gonna be a fun ride when it happens, can't wait to see what demons we give UU

As a uu main, we’re terrified by the concept of some of the potential drops. Please keep your manaphys and deo-ds to yourself.

 

[StompyStomps]

As a uu main, we’re terrified by the concept of some of the potential drops. Please keep your manaphys and deo-ds to yourself.

I haven't decided my main tier, but I hope Kommo-o is balanced in UU, and they unban it, because I want to use Kommo-o damnit

 

[NotDaProGamer]

Not to be rude but a discussion of banning Kyurem before Kingambit or Gholdengo or knowing it's usage statistic for primetime is kind of pointless, right

Pretty sure that , and were banned without knowing the usage. They were definitely broken. If a Pokémon seems banworthy and centralizing, it should be removed, right?

As a uu main, we’re terrified by the concept of some of the potential drops. Please keep your manaphys and deo-ds to yourself.

Don't worry, they're our (late) christmas gifts to you! Free of charge until Feburary.

OU is not reponsible for any damage caused due to the explosive meta-warping abilities of some of these mons, or the potential sanity of UU and lower tier players and their mental health after being overflooded with OP enemies. OU refuses to redeem any unwanted presents and kindly asks that you do not throw them into the limbo state of UUBL, where they will float unused in the endless void forever. Terms and conditions apply.

 

[Welcome to mars]

hours ago at last, the bell had finally rung, happy new years to everyone here, except for awyp

Rise up gamers (Cobalion) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Justified
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Roar/poison jab
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave/taunt
- Close Combat
More offensive utility with phasing, more bulk could be invested and poison jab could be for poison fishing (no toxic moment) fine enough lead with natural bulk

Fireworks idk (Magmortar) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Earthquake
- Poison jab /knock off
mixed big zu magmortar because he needs some coverage, life orb might wear you down in 5 seconds with stealth rock but it is said most mixed attackers don’t have blood, just a bunch of mini life orbs floating around there, knock off is more coverage and has outstanding utility being able to crease heavy duty boots and disarm a choice bander

Harmless fire (Entei) @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 240 Atk / 16 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stone Edge
- Sacred Fire
- Extreme Speed
- Solar Beam
choice bander entei with a twist, solar beam is for sun team entei to demolish the resists or naturally bulky pokemon that would survive its sacred fires and giggle at its extreme speeds

16 SpA Entei Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 298-352 (55.8 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

16 SpA Tera Grass Entei Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dondozo: 338-402 (67 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (non tera isn’t even a guaranteed 2 shot)

16 SpA Tera Grass Entei Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Garganacl: 236-282 (58.4 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

that being said, unironic use of entei will get at least 100 elo removed from your account, not just because its mid but because it hits gholdengo and kingambit super effectively, stay safe and keep making comically niche sets

 

[skippergamez]

I've seen these words before, manymany times, used to ban things. Give us a random calc like that one guy posting Cobalion, anyways, Hearthflame is good.
Where does it become broken, that is to say, who are the community's "pets"?

Usage =/= brokeness, think Lando-T. In fact, usage shouldn’t really be a factor in any Tiering decision

 

[SittinGamer]

And, barring that one moment in Black and White, Zapdos is Underused for the first time.

 

[Doomscizor]

Gentlemen, it has dropped

 

[Casteliacone]

TERRAKION IN PU GOT ME FUCKING CACKLING LMAO NO FUCKING WAYYYYYY

PEOPLE REMEMBERED TO USE THE SINNOH FOSSILS AND REGIGIGAS MORE THAN USING HIM THIS IS HYSTERICAL

 

[Captain Marshadow]

Which thread can I go to to see the tier shifts myself?

 

[kosecant]

Which thread can I go to to see the tier shifts myself?

They’ll be posted here shortly, as per usual

 

[Pokemon Trainer: Shadow]

Landorus is that one side character who refuses to quit even against impossible odds.

 

[TPP]

Happy New Year! Usage stats are here thanks to Marty! I'll post the OU ones below and I'll update this with the visual for OU specifically later when it's made. The other image I have below is for tier shifts in general. Feel free to have fun discussing our new OU mons and what surprised you the most and what you're expecting to see stick around and what you think will drop sooner than later.

OU Stats Visual by Kalalokki

Combined usage for OU (1695 stats)
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1    | Great Tusk         | 29.930% |
| 2    | Kingambit          | 28.026% |
| 3    | Gholdengo          | 18.282% |
| 4    | Iron Boulder       | 18.133% |
| 5    | Roaring Moon       | 17.886% |
| 6    | Raging Bolt        | 16.096% |
| 7    | Hatterene          | 15.788% |
| 8    | Gliscor            | 14.982% |
| 9    | Gouging Fire       | 14.634% |
| 10   | Slowking-Galar     | 12.601% |
| 11   | Iron Valiant       | 12.314% |
| 12   | Deoxys-Speed       | 12.246% |
| 13   | Volcarona          | 12.029% |
| 14   | Darkrai            | 11.537% |
| 15   | Samurott-Hisui     | 10.865% |
| 16   | Rillaboom          | 10.821% |
| 17   | Enamorus           | 10.557% |
| 18   | Archaludon         | 10.002% |
| 19   | Kyurem             |  9.977% |
| 20   | Glimmora           |  9.974% |
| 21   | Dragapult          |  9.797% |
| 22   | Dragonite          |  9.430% |
| 23   | Cinderace          |  9.325% |
| 24   | Meowscarada        |  8.967% |
| 25   | Skarmory           |  8.780% |
| 26   | Clefable           |  8.558% |
| 27   | Zamazenta          |  8.481% |
| 28   | Serperior          |  8.451% |
| 29   | Ting-Lu            |  8.115% |
| 30   | Torkoal            |  7.726% |
| 31   | Walking Wake       |  7.329% |
| 32   | Landorus-Therian   |  6.842% |
| 33   | Corviknight        |  6.676% |
| 34   | Skeledirge         |  6.600% |
| 35   | Dondozo            |  6.089% |
| 36   | Primarina          |  5.691% |
| 37   | Iron Crown         |  5.637% |
| 38   | Excadrill          |  5.525% |
| 39   | Pelipper           |  5.374% |
| 40   | Clodsire           |  5.203% |
| 41   | Ogerpon-Wellspring |  5.201% |
| 42   | Heatran            |  4.940% |
| 43   | Toxapex            |  4.871% |
| 44   | Weavile            |  4.776% |
| 45   | Hydrapple          |  4.486% |
| 46   | Ninetales-Alola    |  4.422% |
| 47   | Latios             |  4.199% |
| 48   | Zapdos             |  4.106% |
| 49   | Iron Treads        |  4.054% |
| 50   | Iron Moth          |  4.017% |
| 51   | Latias             |  3.869% |
| 52   | Amoonguss          |  3.850% |
| 53   | Alomomola          |  3.679% |
| 54   | Barraskewda        |  3.459% |
| 55   | Keldeo             |  3.238% |
| 56   | Blaziken           |  3.129% |
| 57   | Tyranitar          |  3.013% |
| 58   | Garchomp           |  2.962% |
| 59   | Rotom-Wash         |  2.735% |
| 60   | Garganacl          |  2.712% |
| 61   | Greninja           |  2.400% |
| 62   | Ribombee           |  2.366% |
| 63   | Blissey            |  2.357% |
| 64   | Hawlucha           |  2.159% |
| 65   | Kingdra            |  2.103% |
| 66   | Hoopa-Unbound      |  2.047% |
| 67   | Venusaur           |  2.011% |
| 68   | Deoxys-Defense     |  1.967% |
| 69   | Ursaluna           |  1.934% |
| 70   | Azumarill          |  1.804% |
| 71   | Weezing-Galar      |  1.702% |
| 72   | Ceruledge          |  1.593% |
| 73   | Scizor             |  1.572% |
| 74   | Maushold           |  1.468% |
| 75   | Araquanid          |  1.426% |
| 76   | Tornadus-Therian   |  1.396% |
| 77   | Indeedee           |  1.363% |
| 78   | Cresselia          |  1.333% |
| 79   | Metagross          |  1.291% |
| 80   | Minior             |  1.251% |
| 81   | Ogerpon-Cornerstone |  1.219% |
| 82   | Manaphy            |  1.060% |
| 83   | Iron Hands         |  1.046% |
| 84   | Volcanion          |  1.034% |
| 85   | Grimmsnarl         |  1.010% |
| 86   | Mandibuzz          |  1.004% |
| 87   | Breloom            |  0.945% |
| 88   | Suicune            |  0.926% |
| 89   | Reuniclus          |  0.898% |
| 90   | Moltres            |  0.896% |
| 91   | Smeargle           |  0.889% |
| 92   | Milotic            |  0.778% |
| 93   | Empoleon           |  0.759% |
| 94   | Ditto              |  0.722% |
| 95   | Cinccino           |  0.706% |
| 96   | Comfey             |  0.675% |
| 97   | Hippowdon          |  0.673% |
| 98   | Lilligant-Hisui    |  0.661% |
| 99   | Thundurus-Therian  |  0.651% |
| 100  | Sandy Shocks       |  0.647% |
| 101  | Goodra-Hisui       |  0.619% |
| 102  | Tentacruel         |  0.594% |
| 103  | Incineroar         |  0.580% |
| 104  | Blastoise          |  0.580% |
| 105  | Galvantula         |  0.561% |
| 106  | Swampert           |  0.548% |
| 107  | Porygon-Z          |  0.535% |
| 108  | Polteageist        |  0.522% |
| 109  | Basculegion        |  0.496% |
| 110  | Necrozma           |  0.471% |
| 111  | Magnezone          |  0.465% |
| 112  | Scream Tail        |  0.451% |
| 113  | Quaquaval          |  0.451% |
| 114  | Enamorus-Therian   |  0.448% |
| 115  | Hydreigon          |  0.388% |
| 116  | Iron Jugulis       |  0.363% |
| 117  | Arcanine-Hisui     |  0.352% |
| 118  | Talonflame         |  0.351% |
| 119  | Pincurchin         |  0.347% |
| 120  | Feraligatr         |  0.330% |
| 121  | Toedscruel         |  0.326% |
| 122  | Sinistcha          |  0.320% |
| 123  | Mimikyu            |  0.308% |
| 124  | Ogerpon            |  0.307% |
| 125  | Slither Wing       |  0.298% |
| 126  | Entei              |  0.280% |
| 127  | Hitmonlee          |  0.269% |
| 128  | Golurk             |  0.256% |
| 129  | Typhlosion-Hisui   |  0.256% |
| 130  | Floatzel           |  0.254% |
| 131  | Conkeldurr         |  0.250% |
| 132  | Slowking           |  0.248% |
| 133  | Overqwil           |  0.248% |
| 134  | Whimsicott         |  0.235% |
| 135  | Cyclizar           |  0.234% |
| 136  | Muk-Alola          |  0.228% |
| 137  | Mew                |  0.208% |
| 138  | Kleavor            |  0.193% |
| 139  | Kommo-o            |  0.190% |
| 140  | Exeggutor-Alola    |  0.182% |
| 141  | Raikou             |  0.181% |
| 142  | Fezandipiti        |  0.181% |
| 143  | Lokix              |  0.179% |
| 144  | Quagsire           |  0.176% |
| 145  | Tinkaton           |  0.176% |
| 146  | Armarouge          |  0.174% |
| 147  | Electivire         |  0.173% |
| 148  | Basculegion-F      |  0.172% |
| 149  | Ninetales          |  0.170% |
| 150  | Crawdaunt          |  0.167% |
| 151  | Mamoswine          |  0.165% |
| 152  | Cobalion           |  0.165% |
| 153  | Rhyperior          |  0.164% |
| 154  | Rampardos          |  0.163% |
| 155  | Zoroark-Hisui      |  0.162% |
| 156  | Pawmot             |  0.160% |
| 157  | Brambleghast       |  0.156% |
| 158  | Moltres-Galar      |  0.147% |
| 159  | Revavroom          |  0.146% |
| 160  | Bronzong           |  0.145% |
| 161  | Gardevoir          |  0.145% |
| 162  | Slowbro            |  0.142% |
| 163  | Umbreon            |  0.136% |
| 164  | Forretress         |  0.128% |
| 165  | Jirachi            |  0.123% |
| 166  | Staraptor          |  0.122% |
| 167  | Sylveon            |  0.122% |
| 168  | Torterra           |  0.109% |
| 169  | Chesnaught         |  0.106% |
| 170  | Meganium           |  0.106% |
| 171  | Bastiodon          |  0.105% |
| 172  | Hitmontop          |  0.103% |
| 173  | Okidogi            |  0.103% |
| 174  | Gastrodon          |  0.102% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +

 

[Eeveeto]

Regigigas moved from OU to NU

Regice moved from OU to PU
Regirock moved from OU to PU
Registeel moved from OU to PU

Chad Regigigas stays winning.



Clodsire moved from UU to OU
Meowscarada moved from UU to OU

How many times will these 2 doing this?


Zapdos moved from OU to UU

This is what Gliscor is doing. Hopefully we deal with that motherfucker soon, so that Zapdos comes back to reclaim what belongs to him.


Meganium moved from OU to NU
Terrakion moved from OU to PU

Meganium is officially more OU viable than Terrakion.

 

[arnimacarni]

BREAKING NEWS

Due to complete and unforeseen tomfoolery and silly-billy-ness from the OU playerbase, Dewgong remains OU while Toxapex and Landorus-Therian fall to RU and ZUBL respectively. We are still expecting a comment from the Council, although first reactions from Smogon users have been slowly reaching us.

I would be completely flabbergasted if not for the fact that I've been playing Dewgong all month long.

I told you since day one that we had to ban Tera.

We will update you as the situation evolves.

 

[Goodstyle]

Weavile back in OU... Weaviles may wobble, but they don't fall down.

 

[Pokemon Trainer: Shadow]

Iron Moth and Zapdos going from top ten in usage to UU is absolute insanity.

 

[Goodstyle]

Iron Moth and Zapdos going from top ten in usage to UU is absolute insanity.

This shocks me because I could have sworn I've been seeing Iron Moth often. Also they're both really good mons.

 

[Dhrabb]

| 57 | Tyranitar | 3.013% |
| 58 | Garchomp | 2.962% |
| 59 | Rotom-Wash | 2.735% |
| 60 | Garganacl | 2.712% |
| 61 | Greninja | 2.400% |
| 62 | Ribombee | 2.366% |
| 63 | Blissey | 2.357% |
| 64 | Hawlucha | 2.159% |

It may be Garchover but we are so Tyraniback

 

[UnusualBoy]

Whoever is keeping Pex and Lando in OU, let it go! It’s not healthy to stay attached to things you should let go.

 

[Welcome to mars]

The tier shifts have came in, zapdos is still a top tier pokemon, the ladder is stupid for abandoning the goat of ou

and this is some very dark foreshadowing

i could try saving cobalion from ru and pull up to a big ou tournament with it or i could drop him and start advocating to for some better pokemon, we’ll see

 

[scourgesys]

ive played a few games by now to where i think im qualified enough to give my opinions on some mons being discussed for bans.

i dont like at all. not because its particularly powerful or centralising, but because its playstyle is just not competitive. it happens way too often where youre playing a game, its all going great, your sweeper is set up and youre cleaning your opponent's team, until... uh oh. you forgot about . you forgot that you had to bait it out and double into your answer in the middle of the game. because of your misplay, the silly chess man is now going to SD and sweep your team with sucker punch... unless you manage to win the guessing games, and correctly guess when it stops SDing and suckers, with no information pointing towards either possibility.
i hate sucker punch mind games; usually theyre tolerable, but with specifically, they often become the deciding factor of a game. they are not skill or prediction-based, the only way to win them is from sheer luck. i feel like, if you failed to lure and deal with a threat such as earlier in the game, that should make you immediately lose, or at the very least, if youre still meant to have a chance, make it prediction-reliant and not guessing-reliant. once has an SD up, there is really nothing you can do - its hard to even out-priority it because most priority moves are physical and dont hit supereffectively. and all of this is without taking tera into account.
that said, is it even healthy that the only way of dealing with a certain mon is to lure it then double into a check? i find it hard to fit an full-on response into a team. i mean, clodsire isnt even that viable, it has a niche but there are better mons out there to have in your team, especially if youre building towards offense.
with all of this, i do think i would like to see banned.

is pretty much guaranteed to get something done whenever it leats or gets a free switch. ive been using it and nobody has been able to stop it from setting up hazards. i feel like setting up something important such as hazards, especially in a meta where its so difficult to get rid of them, should take at least a little bit of brain power instead of "lead deo-S, click taunt, click rocks, if more turns click spikes".
i feel like id need a second opinion before deciding, but i believe my verdict is leaning towards banning .

is a great setup sweeper that still has immediate power, but is held back by its defensive typing. it definitely can make major progress quick in a game, but you gotta get rid of its answers first. i think this is balanced and i dont see a reason to ban it at all.

is a staple that answers many mons, such and , , , , and can even catch and opposing off-guard with tera dark, which i believe to be its best tera. however, its speed tier makes it get bodied hard by opposing offensive threats. you could say it beats with air balloon, but in my experience, my opponents often send in a threat that gets answered by and pops its balloon before opposing becomes relevant, which makes it rather situational.
as for its effect on the hazard meta, i think, if you give your opponent so many free turns to set hazards, its fair that it stays for the entire game, its a punishment for a misplay and hazard removal is just forgiveness factor. if you think the game has a hazards problem, maybe its not because removing hazards is too hard - its because setting hazards is too easy. and that is a problem caused by the likes of .
therefore, i think is perfectly fine and a healthy addition to the meta.

 

[Eeveeto]

| 42 | Heatran | 4.940% | < Here we have the only positive effect of Gliscor's presence in the Tier, its slowly becoming irrelevant again. I still want Gliscor out of the Tier to make Zapdos, Toucannon and several other Mons good again, though.