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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Weavile won’t be OU, no way.
Suprisingly, it almost did last tier shift. So who knows, with the addition of triple axel, it could become OU, though meowscarada is stiff competition for it.
happy new year to me in 29 minutes
Man I love using mystic water on barraskewda to bluff choice band and then hitting kingambit with aqua jet, then watching them try to kowtow cleave only to get ko'd to close combat.
This has happened five times so far. Same interaction and moves made every single time.
This has happened five times so far. Same interaction and moves made every single time.
Briliant, first OU thing of 2024!
Happy new years from Australia xx
Excited to see the tier changes soon to happen, but also, UU main players probably stressing out about how much their tier is about tho be invaded by an army of op mons for the tier xD
Excited to see the tier changes soon to happen, but also, UU main players probably stressing out about how much their tier is about tho be invaded by an army of op mons for the tier xD
i'm a little confused. i understand that you want deo-s banned, you made that clear, the message got across. there are plenty of valid points for and against a deo-s ban and i have yet to make a firm decision on the mon myself. what i'm confused about is: why would 1v1 be relevant to a 6v6 format, what exactly does "easy for ou" mean, and why is specifically ice beam worth a mention?
Any pokémon new years resolutions from anyone in this forum? My Pokémon New Years' Resolution is to get the most memey mons which actually counter top threats.
Also...
Burn Up isn't in SV
Flame Wheel is 60 DMG
Flare Blitz=Recoil
Fusion Flare isn't in SV
Pyro Ball is Cinderace
Sacred Fire is Entei
Scald is rage-inducing
Scorching Sands is... fine?
Steam Eruption is Volcanion.
If you hate Freeze so much, use one of these mons.#NotEnteiPropoganda
(no, but seriously though these are options, don't act like this doesn't exist)
Also...
If freeze is a problem, simply adapt!
Burn Up isn't in SV
Flame Wheel is 60 DMG
Flare Blitz=Recoil
Fusion Flare isn't in SV
Pyro Ball is Cinderace
Sacred Fire is Entei
Scald is rage-inducing
Scorching Sands is... fine?
Steam Eruption is Volcanion.
If you hate Freeze so much, use one of these mons.
(no, but seriously though these are options, don't act like this doesn't exist)
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Umm in RBY Ubers if your opponent froze your own mewtwo you instantly lost the game. I do agree with the freeze clause idea though.
I think I'm starting to come around to Kyurem staying in the tier. This Pokemon feels like Bax without the bullshit. Or rather, it has significantly less bullshit than Bax. Its best set, Specs, is about on par with Band Bax, which was a great set in its own right but not the set that got Bax banned. Most of the other sets Kyurem has like DD and Boots don't seem broken to me beyond just adding to Kyurem's versatility. And Specs, while a top tier nuke, does have some major holes like a weakness to hazards and a rather mediocre speed tier this generation, where we have speedsters like Iron Boulder, Dragapult, etc. The classic dilemna of locking itself into certain moves also hurts Kyurem more with mons with several of its moves having Type immunities. I'm not 100% sure its ability to crush the increasingly common Ting-Lu structures is really a bad thing.
Sometimes it feels like a necessary evil. Like can it destroy things, yes. But it only does that if you don't at least have a mon that resists ice, which is quite easy to do. The new rise of meow can outspeed it, but can't switch into it, while the glowking/ting/zap core are all threatened by kyurem. The only thing that seems inherently broken is the speed tier, which while you said it isn't fast, it is fast enough to outspeed tusk, which is big as if tusk outsped it, this mon would easily be able to be kept in check. However, that means one of the most splashable mons can easily switch in to kyurem. We'll see if this fully pans out or if we are simply coping right now. It doesn't really appreciate hazards and if ghold goes, I could see this becoming more broken as it loses one of its best checks to freeze dry and it doesn't get as crippled by hazards.
new year, my first OU discussion post
I, a humble mid-at-best ladder player, am trying to make a big change in myself this year: actually having high ELO in gen 9. I ask for your best wishes in this journey.
So, I wanted to try a very specific phys wall to cover certain matchups on my band Gouging Fire sun team (please use that new Choosy Dinos team from a few pages back, it is hilarious and band GF is very funny). I want to try Sandaconda.
Sandaconda @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Steel / Fighting / Water
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Glare
- Rest
Sandaconda is just not worth it as a hazards mon, but to my surprise, hitting 200 speed is enough to outspeed a surprising number of mons after a Glare, allowing more free IronPress turns. Otherwise, defensive Glare is just amazing team support with all the fast threats running around. I haven't settled on which of these Teras to use.
The team this is on: https://pokepast.es/1a89fd5d5a385894
You'll notice both the Sandaconda and Sylveon. A problem with these mons is how easily they get worn down over long games, but the combo of Wake + Gouging + Valiant intends to just out-offense opponents and let the defensive mons blanket check, soak up priority, and both be potential wincons. Shed Skin Rest is less of a gamble when the games aren't going too long.
Haven't used this team yet. Am I cooking or do I just make a more meta team
I, a humble mid-at-best ladder player, am trying to make a big change in myself this year: actually having high ELO in gen 9. I ask for your best wishes in this journey.
So, I wanted to try a very specific phys wall to cover certain matchups on my band Gouging Fire sun team (please use that new Choosy Dinos team from a few pages back, it is hilarious and band GF is very funny). I want to try Sandaconda.
Sandaconda @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Steel / Fighting / Water
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Glare
- Rest
Sandaconda is just not worth it as a hazards mon, but to my surprise, hitting 200 speed is enough to outspeed a surprising number of mons after a Glare, allowing more free IronPress turns. Otherwise, defensive Glare is just amazing team support with all the fast threats running around. I haven't settled on which of these Teras to use.
The team this is on: https://pokepast.es/1a89fd5d5a385894
You'll notice both the Sandaconda and Sylveon. A problem with these mons is how easily they get worn down over long games, but the combo of Wake + Gouging + Valiant intends to just out-offense opponents and let the defensive mons blanket check, soak up priority, and both be potential wincons. Shed Skin Rest is less of a gamble when the games aren't going too long.
Haven't used this team yet. Am I cooking or do I just make a more meta team
Probably the main thing is to either get the sandaconda to 219 speed, thus outspeeding jolly kingambit, or dump it all into bulk. Altough I get why you would want that speed stat, 88 evs is a lot for not getting to any benchmarks. Glare could probably get you through those scenarios on procs. I would also suggest flare blitz on gouging over raging fury or dragon claw instead of outrage if you want to keep fury, you are locking yourself in quite often and outrage is probably the worst of the two locking moves because of fairies. Overall, an interesting team with an interesting mon which could work well.new year, my first OU discussion post
I, a humble mid-at-best ladder player, am trying to make a big change in myself this year: actually having high ELO in gen 9. I ask for your best wishes in this journey.
So, I wanted to try a very specific phys wall to cover certain matchups on my band Gouging Fire sun team (please use that new Choosy Dinos team from a few pages back, it is hilarious and band GF is very funny). I want to try Sandaconda.
Sandaconda @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Steel / Fighting / Water
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Glare
- Rest
Sandaconda is just not worth it as a hazards mon, but to my surprise, hitting 200 speed is enough to outspeed a surprising number of mons after a Glare, allowing more free IronPress turns. Otherwise, defensive Glare is just amazing team support with all the fast threats running around. I haven't settled on which of these Teras to use.
The team this is on: https://pokepast.es/1a89fd5d5a385894
You'll notice both the Sandaconda and Sylveon. A problem with these mons is how easily they get worn down over long games, but the combo of Wake + Gouging + Valiant intends to just out-offense opponents and let the defensive mons blanket check, soak up priority, and both be potential wincons. Shed Skin Rest is less of a gamble when the games aren't going too long.
Haven't used this team yet. Am I cooking or do I just make a more meta team
I did 88 spe to outspeed adamant Gambit, but if Jolly's picking up then you're right. I might just settle with max bulk because everything's so strong, but I want to run with this idea until I get a reality check
Band GF does damage so obscene under Sun that even in the face of a Dragon I'm never really clicking the Dragon move because of the Fairies in question. It's the backup, and Outrage is best for that to just drop stuff without worry.
You got any Tera type suggestions for Sandaconda btw?
All the ones you picked were good. I have to rule out water first, while it is good, you do keep your weakness to grass. Steel and fighting are both good and it depends on what you want it to do. If you want to be generally bulky and don't care about tusk as much, steel is the best. However, if you want to deal with gambit more and do more damage with body press, then fighting is the way to go.
I'd probably personally pick fighting, but you do have two fairies to deal with gambit, so probably steel. Again, depends on whether you want to be more defensive or proactive, but both work.
right, sorry to derail, but i wants briefly to respond to a sentiment i came across a surprising amount in the views from the council thread.
in that thread, multiple users advocate for a ban of tera blast based on its function with serperior & enamorus. this is something that has been touted as a potential path at multiple junctures in this generation’s development, & i consider it to be somewhat misguided.
as with the historical arguments for banning tera blast, the current ones miss the fact that it is only under certain conditions, & on certain pokémon, that tera blast can be overwhelming.
it is solely due to the distinct factors of abusers of tera blast (see: contrary stellar tera blast) that push it over the line. it’s not even tera blast in general. it is tera blast, with a single typing, on two pokémon, who are prime for abusing the drops from tera blast. that’s it. that’s all.
let’s look at these two pokémon:
historically held back by its lack of coverage, yet has been granted a strong, totally-neutral stab move that also raises its spatt thanks to contrary. it also has other means of circumventing would-be answers in glare/subseed cheese & the like. not only this, but it’s primary stab raises its spatt by two stages in the first place, making checking it when considering tera blast (stellar) a nightmare.
insane stat spread, typing, & movepool, along with contrary & its dominance as the meta’s scarfer prime this to make use of stellar tera blast, especially late-game.
these two pokémon are potentially problematic (probably are tbf, they play in a super degenerate manner), but it is not tera blast itself. it is a specific type of tera blast, when paired with inextricable aspects of these pokémon, that is problematic. it is the whole lot, the whole package - in other words, it’s the pokémon, not the move.
this logic applies to all instances of problematic pokémon that use tera blast.
edit: didn’t get chance to respond to the views thread, so if i can be arsed i’ll do it here later. idk.
in that thread, multiple users advocate for a ban of tera blast based on its function with serperior & enamorus. this is something that has been touted as a potential path at multiple junctures in this generation’s development, & i consider it to be somewhat misguided.
as with the historical arguments for banning tera blast, the current ones miss the fact that it is only under certain conditions, & on certain pokémon, that tera blast can be overwhelming.
it is solely due to the distinct factors of abusers of tera blast (see: contrary stellar tera blast) that push it over the line. it’s not even tera blast in general. it is tera blast, with a single typing, on two pokémon, who are prime for abusing the drops from tera blast. that’s it. that’s all.
let’s look at these two pokémon:
historically held back by its lack of coverage, yet has been granted a strong, totally-neutral stab move that also raises its spatt thanks to contrary. it also has other means of circumventing would-be answers in glare/subseed cheese & the like. not only this, but it’s primary stab raises its spatt by two stages in the first place, making checking it when considering tera blast (stellar) a nightmare. insane stat spread, typing, & movepool, along with contrary & its dominance as the meta’s scarfer prime this to make use of stellar tera blast, especially late-game.these two pokémon are potentially problematic (probably are tbf, they play in a super degenerate manner), but it is not tera blast itself. it is a specific type of tera blast, when paired with inextricable aspects of these pokémon, that is problematic. it is the whole lot, the whole package - in other words, it’s the pokémon, not the move.
this logic applies to all instances of problematic pokémon that use tera blast.
edit: didn’t get chance to respond to the views thread, so if i can be arsed i’ll do it here later. idk.
I agree with serperior being extremely annoying because it can glare a check on the switch in and then switch to another team mate. I do think that Tera Stellar enam is not that good though since it is only used as a cleaner ( with scarf) and there are better options out there in my opinion.right, sorry to derail, but i wants briefly to respond to a sentiment i came across a surprising amount in the views from the council thread.
in that thread, multiple users advocate for a ban of tera blast based on its function with serperior & enamorus. this is something that has been touted as a potential path at multiple junctures in this generation’s development, & i consider it to be somewhat misguided.
as with the historical arguments for banning tera blast, the current ones miss the fact that it is only under certain conditions, & on certain pokémon, that tera blast can be overwhelming.
it is solely due to the distinct factors of abusers of tera blast (see: contrary stellar tera blast) that push it over the line. it’s not even tera blast in general. it is tera blast, with a single typing, on two pokémon, who are prime for abusing the drops from tera blast. that’s it. that’s all.
let’s look at these two pokémon:
these two pokémon are potentially problematic (probably are tbf, they play in a super degenerate manner), but it is not tera blast itself. it is a specific type of tera blast, when paired with inextricable aspects of these pokémon, that is problematic. it is the whole lot, the whole package - in other words, it’s the pokémon, not the move.
this logic applies to all instances of problematic pokémon that use tera blast.
edit: didn’t get chance to respond to the views thread, so if i can be arsed i’ll do it here later. idk.
We have Weavile, triple axel Weavile to be exact so that is not an issue
OU'S Current 3 Best Ice Types
(it is so hard to spell)
(and the fact that
and 
can beat 1 million lions (with perish song))The main part I think is...
This is correct! The words 'implement frostbite lmfao this is so stupid' is true. See, they realise that their own idea is so stupid. Let us just rearrange the sentence, adding an -ing and removing the word this, and I am sure this is what they are trying to say is:
Implementing frostbite
or Implement frostbite? lmfao.
Thank you, that is a perfect opinion! Just adding proper grammar saves lives and bad takes. How does it save lives? I think you might of heard of that one grammar example of why commas are important:
I like cooking Pokémon and this OU forum.
Becomes:
I like cooking, Pokémon and this OU forum.
Kyurem's the only notable STAB freezer right now. You can't freeze with no damn Triple Axel.
Of course Ice Beam/Punch is a common coverage move, esp. with Gliscor back, but we've long considered a 10% freeze chance to be acceptable basically everywhere in modern gens. If there were 2 more Serene Grace Ice Beam/Punch users in the tier then maybe we could think about freeze clause. At present we'd be implementing a game modification just to avoid banning Kyurem. The condition just isn't nearly as widespread as Sleep.
Of course Ice Beam/Punch is a common coverage move, esp. with Gliscor back, but we've long considered a 10% freeze chance to be acceptable basically everywhere in modern gens. If there were 2 more Serene Grace Ice Beam/Punch users in the tier then maybe we could think about freeze clause. At present we'd be implementing a game modification just to avoid banning Kyurem. The condition just isn't nearly as widespread as Sleep.
can be STAB. Just saying. And acshually,
has freezing glare. (also 
has tri-attack but nobody cares about that)
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Iron Moth @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Sludge Wave
- Tera Blast
- Psychic / Dazzling Gleam
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Sludge Wave
- Tera Blast
- Psychic / Dazzling Gleam
Really surprised if this guy falls to UU, despite competition with Fire-types and sweeper role.
Decent speed tier, ability to abuse Booster Energy in 2 stats and take advantage of other people's sun.
I have been using Tera Ground and it has been a stupid high risk, high reward lure.
Getting Heatran, Skeledirge, Iron Boulder, GalarKing (especially if Fiery Dance activates), Gouging Fire, and Raging Bolt in the same slot is very useful.
In the last slot I have been using Psychic to pressure Clodsire without burning Tera (although not losing the 4x weakness to Ground is not an option) and other Moth, which I hardly see, but the expansion of Dragons makes Dazzling Gleam more attractive at the moment.
You have a high-potential lure, immunity to Nuzzle, Thunder Wave and Thunderclap, loses its 4x weakness to Ground and as cons, it stops removing Toxic Spikes and becomes weak to Grassy Glide. ID Zama greatly appreciates the removal of Skeledirge and GalarKing.
Happy New Year.