Would it be correct to assume that rest would not be touched, as its version of the sleep status is mechanically different from other forms of sleep? (I.e. it’s self afflicted, and it always has 3 sleep turns, therefore not being RNG based in any way)
Rest won’t be touched.
You can make the same exact argument with OHKO moves and Evasion. Realistically, there isn't that many Pokemon that learn OHKO moves that also are Pokemon you :
Simple, they are spammable. With sleep moves in their current state, you can only sleep one mon. With these moves, you can do that over and over again. You can simply just click the Ohko move multiple times even if it connects, which doesn't work with sleep. Furthermore, ohko moves are permanent, if they hit, the mon is dead. With sleep moves, you have max 3 turns to wake up. A mon isn't dead if it is asleep, it is out of commision for a while. Evasion on the other hand, procs can happen multiple times per game. They aren't similar, they cannot work the same as sleep moves.
The problem I feel is that people are equating putting a Pokemon to Sleep as them basically being KO'd. A huge problem with your argument is that no matter the Pokemon a OHKO move has a 30% chance to KO. Sure you wouldn't necessarily want to use Diglett or Krabby or your team, but if they can snag a free KO by the click of the button then why not throw a Focus Sash on them and fish? Even Evasion can be game winning with enough coin flips on any Pokemon that can learn it. Doesn't matter if you limit it only to Cherubi the fact that it can is enough to warrant a whole sale ban. Let's go even further: Baton Pass. Look at how many times it was tried to nerf that move to preserve it. It turns out that it really didn't matter which Pokemon used it. As long as a Pokemon could pass a stat to another better, more deadlier mon it was broken.
what’s more odd for me is, while that Darkrai hypnosis set is certainly uncompetitive, I don’t think a sleep clause is the most pressing issue in the meta right now. I would think Tera or even hazards (which I don’t think should go) would be a chopping block first because it’s defining the current HO/offense-heavy meta.
Yes. There were several about Hypnosis Valiant. And there’ve also been sleep complaints every single gen ever.
Please link them and let's read the discussion about how sleep should be banned because of Hypnosis Valiant
Sleep Clause as a whole needed to be revamped because it doesn’t align with other policies. It was really bad to have Sleep Clause change gameplay mechanics and be complex itself.
Sleep clause exists in gen 1, 2, 3, 4... it's not a new thing. It's been here for 25+ years.
There was one RMT sometime ago with Hypnosis Valiant,
Then make the same kind of arbitrary game modifcations for them that sleep has now lol. OHKO moves don't work after getting 1 kill with them, and evasion can't be stacked above like, +2 or whatever (so Minimize isn't defacto banned as a result). Also, saying that sleep isn't like being OHKOed at all is funny when a lot of the times, it frankly is.
You do like, realize that the Baton pass wasn't actually broken on everything, right? It hasn't ever been difficult to isolate which Pokemon can actually noticeably abuse Baton pass to the point they became noticeable issues. The problem with Baton Pass came from not wanting to ban several different Pokemon just to preserve Baton Pass for the Pokemon that used it in a non broken way, but even with the funny, obtuse restrictions it got, it was still proving a problem with the prominent abusers of it, so it eventually got banned as a whole in the majority of generations. It was never "every Pokemon that got it was broken with it". That alone makes your weird and frankly dumb attempt at using random shitmons being able to use Hypnosis and shit to try and justify why Sleep as a whole can't and shouldn't be banned kinda moot, as well as tyrying to talk about random shitmons using OHKO moves and evasion as reasons why they should stay banned
Sleep Clause only existed for the 3D side games, which Stadium 1 actually has its own meta due to mechanic changes from regular Gen 1, and stopped existing for a long time.
That doesn't make their input invalid. You haven't posted your ELO at all, I notice.
Dude, RBY would be completely unplayable without sleep clause. It has been around since the very beginning. You're showing your age with these comments.
I’ve been here on Smogon in some capacity since gen 4. Sleep Clause has always been inconsistent with our tiering policy by directly altering in-game mechanics to “nerf” an unhealthy mechanic, and people have been complaining about it for generations. This isn’t new, and any claims to the contrary are either ignorant or intentionally revisionist.
Here's my take on the sleep situation. Ban hypnosis so people like you stop gassing awful high roll sets. Fuck competitiveness you're just really annoying. In all seriousness Hypnosis is the only remotely problematic inaccurate sleep move. This isn't gen 3 anymore guys, nobody is running sing Blissey
Sleep clause has never existed on main series cartridges, and was only a thing officially in the stadium games.
So is freeze clause.
If I could win games with Nasty Plot + Hypnosis Gengar, I would.
You're not understanding their point. Nobody is suggesting we axe Sleep Clause and just let Sleep moves run rampant, the problem is (or at least one of the problems) that Sleep Clause is no longer replicable on carts, and hasn't been for like two decades; it was only ever a thing in a 20+ year old spinoff game. People are arguing that it should be modified to be more cart accurate (either disallowing the use of sleep moves entirely if the opponent has a sleeping mon, or making attempting to put a Pokemon to sleep if they already have a sleeping mon be an auto-forfeit), or that we should outright ban Sleep moves in its place. Try engaging with those arguments instead of ones nobody is making.
Ok so,
The comment that I was responding to quite literally said this:
Perhaps you should read instead of pretending I'm saying things that I'm not.
But it's not a thing in the actual cart games.
So you admit you don't care about inconsistency then...
