Dugza, did you mean to link the voting thread because the link you gave is the link to the current metagame discussion thread which we are already in.
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Metagame SV Monotype Metagame Discussion [Teal Mask]
- Thread starter DugZa
- Start date
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TheRealBigC
I COULD BE BANNED!
Test Urshifu-S next pls
They're all poison because Azick asked his Uncle, Mr. GameFreak himself, to make them that way. The bird and pigdog are aight
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Is his uncle really gamefreak? also what about the monkey
I haven't really touched yet. There is absolutely no reason to really use it on Poison, I'd seen a player or two try it on psy but I consider it seriously difficult to fit. On Poison it faces stiff competition from other special attackers, Gengar and Iron Moth can both act as a strong special attacker but with a better speed stat which outpaces many important mons in the meta and better coverage as well. Gengar also is alot more versatile there, it's a more useful specs but can also work with sets like sub will o. Slowking Galar is a Poison Psy that's bulky enough to really aid in poison defensive comp, and with Future Sight/Regenerator/Slack off and Chilly Reception it has far better longevitiy and works better as a pivot. Poison is also a team that has too many options, and generally speaking a player would find more utility in something like Salazzle than Munki anyhow.On Psy there isn't really as much competition from fast special attackers. Munki's coverage options are still pretty bad, but the faster psychic types consist of Azelf/Espeon/Raichu Alola/Scream Tail, which aren't the most threatening as strong special attackers so Munki has a bit more of a niche. From what I'd seen, players used Munki more as an offensive pivot, since it has some options like Fake Out and U Turn which can activate Toxic Chain. That being said, even though Psy isn't the most solid type rn it's still difficult in my opinion to put Munki on the team.
In contrast,
and 
are far easier to fit on Poison. Fez faces competition from GWeezing as a dragon immunity, but still has a quite effective set as a SD user or Pivot. Okidogi is a crazy good Bulk Up user, and is able to separate itself from Sneasler in this regard on Poison. I don't consider them top tier for Fighting/Fairy, but they seem far more viable than Munki does anyhow.that was a long answer
On Psy there isn't really as much competition from fast special attackers. Munki's coverage options are still pretty bad, but the faster psychic types consist of Azelf/Espeon/Raichu Alola/Scream Tail, which aren't the most threatening as strong special attackers so Munki has a bit more of a niche. From what I'd seen, players used Munki more as an offensive pivot, since it has some options like Fake Out and U Turn which can activate Toxic Chain. That being said, even though Psy isn't the most solid type rn it's still difficult in my opinion to put Munki on the team.
In contrast,
Welcome
Here are my opinion on these 3:
: This mon is actually pretty decent because the poison fairy is a pretty good typing. On Fairy, it provides really nice ways to bust through non steel/poison walls without azumarill. Beat up has a 88.24% chance to inflict toxic poison making it infinitely easer for things like specs/scarf mane or sd/specs val to sweep clean up. On poison, since the entire strategy revolves around stalling pokemon out with things like corrosion glimmora and then sweeping at the end(or not if you wanna run full stall), having such a reliable toxic poisoning is really nice to have. However, the only thing is that it's usualy not worth it on poison because the typing coincide with weezing-galar.: Honestly, poison is not using this, someone already explained it. As for psychic, I guess it could work but I don't think it fits. : For poison, I think that it's one of the greatest additions to fighting. I think that it completely outclasses sneasler as a poison fighting type. Poison mostly runs a bulky/balance playstyle and fighting is in severe lack of bulk. For example, on fighting, with assault vest, it's the only pokemon on fighting that can switch into specs mane moonblast more than once. On poison, it provides a very nice bulky offensive mon with knock off etc.
I should have expected this. Poison gets three new legendaries and most of them work better for other types. At least poison is getting proper representation for once. Wonder how the peach boy will be? Will it break the toxic chain and make poison rise again?
Side note, what is the ideal poison build at the moment? Has tox still got a spot, has glowking gotten out competed by darks? Do new toys like Glimmora and clodshore have a spot? Back in the last gen I ran regen trio, gheezing support, dark type (cha have to stop psychic somehow or get swept) and some kind of physical hitter (there were other options, but I found that a good physical hitter helped sweep endgames better, and glowking was more than enough special att and wall when needed). What is the typical good team build for poison these days?
Side note, what is the ideal poison build at the moment? Has tox still got a spot, has glowking gotten out competed by darks? Do new toys like Glimmora and clodshore have a spot? Back in the last gen I ran regen trio, gheezing support, dark type (cha have to stop psychic somehow or get swept) and some kind of physical hitter (there were other options, but I found that a good physical hitter helped sweep endgames better, and glowking was more than enough special att and wall when needed). What is the typical good team build for poison these days?
While there isn't a full on consensus yet. the Main take most people seems to have is AMuk as your special tank, a Regen duet of Amoong and Toxapex with Geezing for a ground immunity, Sneasler for speed/pivoting and either Glim or Salazzle for Corrosion with some preferring Glim thanks to it having Rocks, STAB Power gem, and its superior bulk while others use Salazzle for its ability to Encore problems like Gambit, higher speed, and superior defensive typing.
For the other questions.
Toxapex still has a major important role since you can't really fit haze on Geezing unless your running Glim and even then, Defog isn't blocked by every Steel, only Ghold, and it is a blessing into hard hitting physical threats such as Chien-pao and Scizor. It is also the only mon on Poison that can generally fit Toxic Spikes or a trapping move if you want either of those or a to be a second Toxic spreader.
For the new stuff you mentioned, Glimmora is still good for Corrosion and hazard setting and can still be used how it was prehome if you want to run Weezing over Geezing (Which is a thing since Weezing isn't fucked by Steel types) for some hazard control and with how rough flying has historically been for Poison, its strong STAB Power gems are nice to have.
Clodsire has just fallen off hard though, if you want a special tank there really isn't much reason to run it since Alolan Muk solves far more problematic matchups like Psychic and is more threatening thanks to STAB Knock off, higher raw attack and its amazing coverage which can solve matchups you may of wanted to use Clodsire for like Volcarona which I just use Rock Slide AMuk for. And if you want a second special wall, Glowking despite the issues that Dark and Ghost pose to it, has regen and its amazing coverage solves other hard problems like Lando-I, the Poison mirror, Heatran, and is not suffering as badly from 4 Move Slot Syndrome as Clod. All I really see Clodsire on now are mainly just Hard Stall teams and that is it.
I would actually swap the two.
Fez has no reason to use it on Poison. To quote my old self when the DLC released.
"Nearly anything you want this to do can be done better.
Special wall? Alolan Muk, Galarian Slowking or Clodsire are bulkier.
Setup Sweeper? Overqwil, Sneasler, Okidogi got you covered.
Fairy? Galarian Weezing has more oomph.
The Funny? Coil Scale Shot Arbok, Curse Muk or Gastly for its Ground immunity." ~ https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pre-dlc-sv-monotype-metagame-discussion.3710724/post-9778197
Meanwhile Munkidori has some niche utility. Pivoting and Trick on one Pokémon is solid and only shared with Sneasler (and Grafaiai but thats a mon you never see). if you want Sneasler to not be a choice scarfer or a different Posion/Fighting type (Like the far superior Toxicroak
(This is a follow-up to my earlier Fezandipiti post. Since then, I have reached rank 2 on ladder using a Fairy team featuring Fezandipiti. I maintain my stance that it is a heavily underrated Pokemon. I've been planning this post for awhile but there has again been discussion about Fezandipiti here so why not now.)
Recent developments that I have seen regarding Fezandipiti include Swords Dance, Nasty Plot, or even Choiced sets. They are interesting sets for sure, but its offensive stats are rather lacking for an attacking role. Moreover, it is simply inferior to its brethren in this regard. Compared to the other members of the trio, Fezandipiti is the only one whose moveset permits it to abuse Toxic Chain with multihit moves. Therefore, I will primarily be discussing its Beat Up pivot set:
Fezandipiti @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Beat Up
- Roost
- U-turn
- Taunt
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Beat Up
- Roost
- U-turn
- Taunt
First, and as a revision to my original post, Fezandipiti's performance on stall teams is definitely subpar. Stall Poison does not need any help inflicting toxic, other Pokemon are better defensively, and while Fez can inflict Toxic past Magic Bounce, there are a grand total of two fully-evolved Magic Bounce mons this gen. Verdict: Fezandipiti is simply not worth the opportunity cost on Poison (unless you are running some offensive Poison team, which would be commendable).
The more offensive Fairy type, however, can benefit from Fezandipiti's pivoting capabilities. With 88/125 special bulk and reliable recovery in Roost, Fezandipiti is capable of switching into otherwise extremely threatening attackers:
252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Fezandipiti: 126-148 (33.1 - 38.9%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO (beats Flutter Mane if it is not Choice-locked into Psyshock)
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Fezandipiti: 142-168 (37.3 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Thundurus-Therian Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Fezandipiti: 148-175 (38.9 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
It also resists Meowscarada's entire (most commonly used) set.
Fun quirks about Beat Up:
- A 6-hit Beat Up will have an 88% chance to inflict Toxic, and its Base Power will be in the 80-85 range (depends on your team; the team in the replays has an 81 BP Beat Up). Make sure to keep your team healthy if possible.
- It does not make contact! This means you will never activate Flame Body on Moltres or Volcarona, Cute Charm on Enamorus, etc. while poisoning them. Many players do not know this!
- It is optimal to order your team with your Pokemon in increasing base Atk order! (Ironically, the lowest Atk mon will often be Azumarill, followed by Flutter Mane.) This is important when facing Armarouge due to Weak Armor activating on every hit, strengthening all future hits, and may make the difference between getting the OHKO and not. (Ceruledge, with its lower defenses, will always be OHKO'd from a 6-hit Beat Up regardless of team order)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9monotype-1956031514-jagqptc0mvqnioagsvi7ak3wgei2878pw - lowest Atk first (good)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9monotype-1956036534-lylp6n0d8tnc9yujju8dk2bubch824gpw - highest Atk first (bad)
- Spite - with this, it can PP stall opposing Pokemon. It is especially valuable if you can hit a Pokemon that just used a recovery move, as Spite will remove half of its total PP.
- Attract - so you know those people running female Pokemon to avoid activating Cute Charm on Enamorus, which is also female? Well, it just so happens that Fezandipiti is always male...
- Random Coverage - Moonblast, Sludge Bomb, Heat Wave, Hurricane, Shadow Ball, Dark Pulse, and Icy Wind on the special side; Play Rough, Poison Jab, Brave Bird, Shadow Claw, Lash Out, and Double Kick on the physical side
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The Urshifu-S suspect test has concluded; Urshifu-S is banned in SV Monotype: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-monotype-suspect-3-urshifu-s.3730886/post-9852435
Looking forward to seeing discussion about everyone's thoughts on the suspect test results and the state of the metagame following the ban.
Looking forward to seeing discussion about everyone's thoughts on the suspect test results and the state of the metagame following the ban.
Happy with our first community voted ban, and will gladly jump right into future meta talk, in regards to changes to the types and their matchups. I guess we can start simple by discussing the two types that lost Urshifu and the changes they can make.
Dark already didn't really mandate running Urshifu, so plenty of its bulky offence teams won't be affected much. What does change however, is thanks to lack of Urshifu, Sableye + a moonblast sponge like A-Muk can just beat out fighting. Lack of Urshifu as an option does take away some of darks easy slap-on firepower into a handful of balance styles, but chien + king + gren/meow/hoopa as an offensive core can cover it power wise. Prepping for stuff like Water or Steel requires more commitment with sets now which is a healthy shift, using the right combo of moves on SD Chien or committing hard to a Hydreigon for Steel, or Meow-Sable-Ting structures to beat down water. The flying matchup is also no longer just Urshifu clicking SD and beating everything down to where Chien (or gambit?) wins without a fight, and now you need to play out a longer game or bring out the banded Pao, which has some form of abusable weakness I guess. Very Cool.
So, this type has a lotttttt of things it can do with its last slot now. The above 3, iron hands, and one of the poison types are gonna often lock in 5/6, and the last mon has a few fun options.
to provide a secondary special breaker which fighting could definitely use against certain wincons like CurseDozo or Bulk Up Dogi, it can also just be a fun dragon dance sweeper or rocker. Very versatile pick with good resistances to water, grass, fire, and shadow ball. Solid pick. 
Decent breaker vs water, poison, steel, ground, and mirror, ground immunity, and just a solid knock and uturn clicker. 
Funny psychic neutrality that hits pretty damn hard into basically everything I just said Zapdos beats. 
Water/Ground defeater mons with sleep-support or silly stuff like Lilligants healing wish and Brelooms priority. 
Both are strong SD waters, Urshifu is much more of a potent breaker while Quaquaval has higher sweeping potential. 
This one I feel strongest about; another fairy neutral, good ability, nice into stuff like Sableye wisp, raging bull hard bodies fairy, wisp spreading is great, the right set can fuck up poison, and overall its just a really strong mon with a slight bit of set variety. All very cool options and I'm excited to see people explore this type again.
I often found myself forcing Zapdos last on flying to have something that can blast Urshifu. No Longer. More openings to comfortably run ThundyT or Lando I/T to pair with gliscor. Feels nice. Similarly with Dondozo, while it wasn't exactly an urshifu answer per-se, its bulk felt more necessary on water to handle the offensive cores dark/fighting could push forward, and now I feel its easier to drop it for something more offensive or a more immediately do-something defensive mon like Rotom-Wash. Klefki steel was unserious I won't elaborate further. Basically trying to get at that yeah, balance types have more freedom with versatility now and that is great for the meta. As for offensive types, ghost and psychic can actually beat fighting once again; psychic still is weak but ghost experimentation is on the board.
Steel is back fully, aforementioned klefki is no longer necessary and now you have many slots to mess around with. Above 3 along with
, 
or both of them for rocks and fire/water resists, 
for speed control/hazard control to paired with bulk up , 
for spikes stacking and stail into Kingambit/Corviknight, different varients of 
sets to break water/fly/fight. Steels resurgence can definitely shift things around; lowering the power of ice and maybe increasing the use of fire, forcing ground to be less BU Corviknight weak, and scaring dark more as to not lose to Kingambit coming in on Sableye and clicking low kick for a kill as its forced out. Excited to see where it takes us.
Dark already didn't really mandate running Urshifu, so plenty of its bulky offence teams won't be affected much. What does change however, is thanks to lack of Urshifu, Sableye + a moonblast sponge like A-Muk can just beat out fighting. Lack of Urshifu as an option does take away some of darks easy slap-on firepower into a handful of balance styles, but chien + king + gren/meow/hoopa as an offensive core can cover it power wise. Prepping for stuff like Water or Steel requires more commitment with sets now which is a healthy shift, using the right combo of moves on SD Chien or committing hard to a Hydreigon for Steel, or Meow-Sable-Ting structures to beat down water. The flying matchup is also no longer just Urshifu clicking SD and beating everything down to where Chien (or gambit?) wins without a fight, and now you need to play out a longer game or bring out the banded Pao, which has some form of abusable weakness I guess. Very Cool.
So, this type has a lotttttt of things it can do with its last slot now. The above 3, iron hands, and one of the poison types are gonna often lock in 5/6, and the last mon has a few fun options.
to provide a secondary special breaker which fighting could definitely use against certain wincons like CurseDozo or Bulk Up Dogi, it can also just be a fun dragon dance sweeper or rocker. Very versatile pick with good resistances to water, grass, fire, and shadow ball. Solid pick. Decent breaker vs water, poison, steel, ground, and mirror, ground immunity, and just a solid knock and uturn clicker. Funny psychic neutrality that hits pretty damn hard into basically everything I just said Zapdos beats. Water/Ground defeater mons with sleep-support or silly stuff like Lilligants healing wish and Brelooms priority. Both are strong SD waters, Urshifu is much more of a potent breaker while Quaquaval has higher sweeping potential. This one I feel strongest about; another fairy neutral, good ability, nice into stuff like Sableye wisp, raging bull hard bodies fairy, wisp spreading is great, the right set can fuck up poison, and overall its just a really strong mon with a slight bit of set variety. All very cool options and I'm excited to see people explore this type again. I often found myself forcing Zapdos last on flying to have something that can blast Urshifu. No Longer. More openings to comfortably run ThundyT or Lando I/T to pair with gliscor. Feels nice. Similarly with Dondozo, while it wasn't exactly an urshifu answer per-se, its bulk felt more necessary on water to handle the offensive cores dark/fighting could push forward, and now I feel its easier to drop it for something more offensive or a more immediately do-something defensive mon like Rotom-Wash. Klefki steel was unserious I won't elaborate further. Basically trying to get at that yeah, balance types have more freedom with versatility now and that is great for the meta. As for offensive types, ghost and psychic can actually beat fighting once again; psychic still is weak but ghost experimentation is on the board.
Steel is back fully, aforementioned klefki is no longer necessary and now you have many slots to mess around with. Above 3 along with
, or both of them for rocks and fire/water resists, for speed control/hazard control to paired with bulk up , for spikes stacking and stail into Kingambit/Corviknight, different varients of sets to break water/fly/fight. Steels resurgence can definitely shift things around; lowering the power of ice and maybe increasing the use of fire, forcing ground to be less BU Corviknight weak, and scaring dark more as to not lose to Kingambit coming in on Sableye and clicking low kick for a kill as its forced out. Excited to see where it takes us.
I've been building and playing ladder casually and I wanted to drop a few teams with some concepts that I feel are worth bringing up to metagame discussion. These are mainly trends I've been playing around with.
1. Rocky Helmet
Going to start small but I've been sporadically putting the item even on Pokemon like Mandibuzz and Avalugg that would normally heavily prefer boots. In an offense heavy meta I definitely feel like its a great item that lets you get the extra leg up with the chip, especially if you have priority users. It's also really nice because it trades being immune to hazards for having an opportunity cost to attack the Pokemon.
Bulky Offense
For example, this team would typically struggle against Choice Scarf Close Combat Pokemon like Sneasler and Great Tusk because Mandibuzz is overall not durable with 8 PP Roost over the course of the game, especially when it has to keep coming in on hazards after a would-be Knock Off. But with Rocky Helmet, you can still serve as a Defog user and Bloodmoon Ursaluna check while forcing chip damage on those Pokemon. For example, after 3 rounds of chip damage, Choice Band Chien-pao beats Great Tusk with Ice Shard, and after one round of chip damage Kingambit beats Sneasler after a Swords Dance.
Spikes Offense
Rocky Helmet Avalugg on this team was originally for Zamazenta since you basically 1v1 it with Iron Defense and the Rocky Helmet chip gives it repercussions if it tries to click Body Press freely. I feel like it's the main reason to be running Avalugg in this metagame since Alolan Sandslash does the spinning job way better. However, including Rocky Helmet Avalugg on this team lets it beat Fighting consistently as Alolan Ninetales and Chien-pao's Fairy and Psychic coverage basically beats everything else one way or another. I will say that I do feel like as far as glue Pokemon go, Avalugg is one of the lesser mandatory for the type its on to function and definitely one of the less consistent ones.
So basically I really have been slapping Rocky Helmet on random offense teams, especially ones with priority. Definitely feel like the item has a lot of good use when utilized correctly in terms of how in game interactions go. However, I do feel a bit iffy with putting it on Pokemon that serve a major purpose in the team, for example Clodsire on Ground and Corviknight on Flying thats more life or death in terms of the interactions. Corviknight and Clodsire having Rocky Helmet means that they suffer in certain interactions against mons like Greninja for both and Wellspring Mask Ogerpon for Clodsire. Generally speaking, 8 PP recovery sucks and it definitely means you can't just throw other items besides Leftovers onto Pokemon whenever you feel like it since the passive recovery can be game changing sometimes. It really comes down to the situations.
2. Using Strong Glue Pokemon
Honestly even though this generation has a lot of over the top Pokemon in terms of power, it also offers Pokemon that are just generally really good glue for teambuilding and cover many crucial roles at a time. Oftentimes when building SV I find that I'm strapped for slots if I ever want to build around something cool or unique. To make teambuilding more flexible I try to look for Pokemon with sets that can take up multiple roles at once to let me use the idea I had in mind more coherently. I definitely feel like maximizing the utility of these Pokemon is extremely beneficial for building, especially in this stage of the metagame.
Near the more beginning of the DLC I made a team that I feel showcases Clodsire's ability to compress roles extremely well as glue:
Anti-Water Balance
This was a teambuilding workshop request that wanted a Bloodmoon Ursaluna Ground that could consistently beat a good majority of Water teams. As far as beating Water goes, you need to include Pokemon like Great Tusk and Sandy Shocks to deal with Wellspring Mask Ogerpon and Manaphy respectively. Clodsire is the go-to Water immunity on Ground teams, but on this team it compresses a lot of the roles that are missed out on because of the additions of Sandy Shocks and Great Tusk.
For example, Clodsire can:
- Serve as a Water immunity and a Grass neutrality
- Due to not being able to fit Gliscor or Landorus, Clodsire is a Fighting resistance that can beat Zamazenta with Haze
- Without Ting-lu, Espathra is a problem but Clodsire can stop it with Haze
- Be a special wall that can wall threats like Flutter Mane, Volcarona, and Thundurus-T
- Wall Gholdengo and Hydreigon with Haze
The team's concept was not bad since Water teams are typically hard to deal with for Ground, and making a Ground team that beats it means that it's a reliable team considering Ground is typically a really consistent type in the metagame otherwise. But with Clodsire's role on this team I really feel like I utilized it pretty well in terms of compression, even going so far as to adding Haze on it to not lose to specific Pokemon that would be beatable if I had the team slots for it. Adding Haze to it, including Black Sludge over Heavy Duty Boots and trying to utilize the EV spread are things that I feel really helped it be sustainable for the rest of the team. It could typically run Spikes or Toxic Spikes over Haze, but using Haze covered up a lot of holes that were apparent in the team.
This is an example of an offensive glue in Dragapult being really good:
Spikes Bulky Offense
I'm a huge fan of Choice Scarf double status Dragapult because of the massive utility it brings to the table in one slot. Dragapult as a mon is something I feel like should be utilized to its maximum potential in Monotype considering just how good it is.
Choice Scarf double status Dragapult can fill all these roles on the team:
- Be amazing Speed control with 142 base Speed, outspeeding various mons like Choice Scarf Meowscarada ranging to Volcarona at +1 and Basculegion under rain
- Dragon typing gives it a Fire and Water resistance, making it really good against Fire and Water weather teams
- Double status gives it flexibility and the threat of basically crippling anything that it can't OHKO for the rest of the team, specifically Substitute Hisuian Zoroark. The two mons that do not care about it (Gholdengo and Gliscor) are dealt with by Flutter Mane
- U-turn means it can connect offensive mons to each other. Bringing in something like Flutter Mane for free as the opponent swaps to Mandibuzz against Dark is huge
- Infiltrator means you can beat Baxcalibur under Aurora Veil
This Dragapult set gives you the ability to outplay a lot of scenarios because of its flexibility alongside its role compression. I think it's important to note that outplaying is a valid form of counterplay, as you need to pilot every team well to be successful with it. Clicking the right buttons means that you have a slot on your team that is amazing offensive glue that can blanket check various threats in the tier via either its attacks or status while being a really consistent momentum grab granted you bring it in against the right Pokemon. Another form of speed control like scarf Flutter Mane would be stronger but wouldn't provide the same utility that Dragapult would.
Strong glue Pokemon allow room for strong team structures if utilized well.
Here are the other Pokemon I listed as examples and why I feel they're strong glue Pokemon:
- Gholdengo can decimate a lot of balance teams by itself, covering those matchups easily in the builder for Steel. The Rocky Helmet set specifically is really nice because it keeps hazards up extremely effectively which makes a lot of scenarios outplayable in combination with hazards
- Gliscor is a status sponge and defensive wall for both Ground and Flying that has great virtue in typing. Alongside that, the hazards it sets makes a lot of situations outplayable and being able to beat everything besides Orthworm + Corviknight with Toxic and Earthquake means that its really hard to remove if you don't have Ice coverage. Specifically, for Flying teams it alleviates the Electric and Rock weaknesses almost entirely and is great in a hazards centered metagame
- Empoleon sets Stealth Rock really well and its typing is really good for both Steel and Water. It makes the defensive core really hard to beat despite not being mandatory, and Roar means you can't set up on it with something like Volcarona or Spectrier
- Bloodmoon Ursaluna beats Chien-pao for Ground, which already takes a lot of pressure off from the type. It's also good in traditional "bad" matchups because of its bulk combined with Blood Moon
- Greninja's Choice Scarf set is really nice because it's just really fast and has Switcheroo and U-turn to cripple things and grab momentum. It's also a Dark and Ghost resist for Water and a Fire and Water resist for Dark, giving it some defensive utility too
- Brambleghast provides Rapid Spin, a Water and Ground resistance, and hazards for Ghost. Considering Ghost as a type is impossible to spin against and Gholdengo blocks Defog, providing hazards is really big. Infiltrator also means it can check Azumarill under screens too
- Ting-lu is lesser used nowadays but on the right teams it can really cover a lot. It's borderline unkillable and has Spikes and Stealth Rock, making it a really good hazard setter and phaser with Whirlwind
- Hydreigon gives Dark teams a Water, Fire resist and Ground immunity and can virtually break every balance type in existence with Nasty Plot. It can also set Stealth Rock. Its often overlooked but definitely a great role compression Pokemon
3. Hazards
I definitely feel like hazards are a huge part of the SV Monotype metagame because removal is just not that great especially with the power level being so high. Good Ghost types are everywhere, with Sableye, Gholdengo being the main examples and Gliscor being tough to remove against as a setter because of the threat of Toxic. Gholdengo blocking Defog makes hazards a lot more problematic too. Spikes in particular makes offensive threats 10x more dangerous, so keeping an eye on them is especially important.
In teambuilding, I've been keeping a good eye on the hazards interactions because I feel it is important to have success in the tier. Here are some tips that I've personally found helpful while building to keep in account hazards:
- Do I remove hazards?
- Can I win without removing hazards?
- Can I at least outplay hazards?
- Can I keep my hazards up?
Gholdengo Steel is a really good example of what building around hazards looks considering its the textbook definition of hazard stack.
Here is an example of a team to hypothetically take into consideration:
Hazard stack offense
Removing hazards against it could look like this:
- Using Earthquake Iron Treads on Ground to threaten it out and then using Rapid Spin
- Cinderace's Court Change on Fire
- Poltergeist Brambleghast on Grass or Ghost
- A more offensive Quaquaval to beat defensive variants on Water
Winning without removing hazards could look like this:
- Utilizing Heavy Duty Boots on virtually any type
- Trading hazards with Gliscor on Ground and Flying so Pokemon like Bloodmoon Ursaluna or Kingambit can win
- Utilizing brute force with a breaker like Hearthflame Mask Ogerpon, Hydreigon, or Chien-pao
Outplaying hazards could look like this:
- Using Taunt on Orthworm to prevent it from setting hazards
- Getting Rapid Spin turns right combined with offensive pressure
- Setting up while it's setting hazards
Keeping hazards up could look like this:
- Pokemon that can take on Iron Treads considering its the main Rapid Spin user, for example a Ghost type like Sableye or Ground types like Gliscor and Ting-lu that can set hazards and then threaten it with Earthquake
This is a team that I made around hazards:
Hazard stack balance
- Gliscor sets hazards against basically anything besides Hatterene and has Toxic to beat Rapid Spin users
- It can win against Gholdengo teams thanks to Gliscor applying its own pressure and Moltres clicking Roar to wear Steel down
- Specially Defensive Corviknight can beat Hatterene which prevents Gliscor from setting hazards
- Galarian Zapdos takes advantage of Defog users like Galarian Weezing and Corviknight to tear through teams with Defiant
This team has ways to remove hazards against the important types with Corviknight, but if it doesn't work out then Gliscor can always pressure with Galarian Zapdos while keeping hazards up. It has a good gameplan against and wich hazards in general and is why I feel like Flying is one of the best types at the moment.
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That's basically it in terms of metagame trends I've noticed in effective SV Monotype teambuilding. I hope people find this post useful and thanks for reading!
1. Rocky Helmet
Going to start small but I've been sporadically putting the item even on Pokemon like Mandibuzz and Avalugg that would normally heavily prefer boots. In an offense heavy meta I definitely feel like its a great item that lets you get the extra leg up with the chip, especially if you have priority users. It's also really nice because it trades being immune to hazards for having an opportunity cost to attack the Pokemon.
For example, this team would typically struggle against Choice Scarf Close Combat Pokemon like Sneasler and Great Tusk because Mandibuzz is overall not durable with 8 PP Roost over the course of the game, especially when it has to keep coming in on hazards after a would-be Knock Off. But with Rocky Helmet, you can still serve as a Defog user and Bloodmoon Ursaluna check while forcing chip damage on those Pokemon. For example, after 3 rounds of chip damage, Choice Band Chien-pao beats Great Tusk with Ice Shard, and after one round of chip damage Kingambit beats Sneasler after a Swords Dance.
Rocky Helmet Avalugg on this team was originally for Zamazenta since you basically 1v1 it with Iron Defense and the Rocky Helmet chip gives it repercussions if it tries to click Body Press freely. I feel like it's the main reason to be running Avalugg in this metagame since Alolan Sandslash does the spinning job way better. However, including Rocky Helmet Avalugg on this team lets it beat Fighting consistently as Alolan Ninetales and Chien-pao's Fairy and Psychic coverage basically beats everything else one way or another. I will say that I do feel like as far as glue Pokemon go, Avalugg is one of the lesser mandatory for the type its on to function and definitely one of the less consistent ones.
So basically I really have been slapping Rocky Helmet on random offense teams, especially ones with priority. Definitely feel like the item has a lot of good use when utilized correctly in terms of how in game interactions go. However, I do feel a bit iffy with putting it on Pokemon that serve a major purpose in the team, for example Clodsire on Ground and Corviknight on Flying thats more life or death in terms of the interactions. Corviknight and Clodsire having Rocky Helmet means that they suffer in certain interactions against mons like Greninja for both and Wellspring Mask Ogerpon for Clodsire. Generally speaking, 8 PP recovery sucks and it definitely means you can't just throw other items besides Leftovers onto Pokemon whenever you feel like it since the passive recovery can be game changing sometimes. It really comes down to the situations.
2. Using Strong Glue Pokemon
Honestly even though this generation has a lot of over the top Pokemon in terms of power, it also offers Pokemon that are just generally really good glue for teambuilding and cover many crucial roles at a time. Oftentimes when building SV I find that I'm strapped for slots if I ever want to build around something cool or unique. To make teambuilding more flexible I try to look for Pokemon with sets that can take up multiple roles at once to let me use the idea I had in mind more coherently. I definitely feel like maximizing the utility of these Pokemon is extremely beneficial for building, especially in this stage of the metagame.
Near the more beginning of the DLC I made a team that I feel showcases Clodsire's ability to compress roles extremely well as glue:
This was a teambuilding workshop request that wanted a Bloodmoon Ursaluna Ground that could consistently beat a good majority of Water teams. As far as beating Water goes, you need to include Pokemon like Great Tusk and Sandy Shocks to deal with Wellspring Mask Ogerpon and Manaphy respectively. Clodsire is the go-to Water immunity on Ground teams, but on this team it compresses a lot of the roles that are missed out on because of the additions of Sandy Shocks and Great Tusk.
For example, Clodsire can:
- Serve as a Water immunity and a Grass neutrality
- Due to not being able to fit Gliscor or Landorus, Clodsire is a Fighting resistance that can beat Zamazenta with Haze
- Without Ting-lu, Espathra is a problem but Clodsire can stop it with Haze
- Be a special wall that can wall threats like Flutter Mane, Volcarona, and Thundurus-T
- Wall Gholdengo and Hydreigon with Haze
The team's concept was not bad since Water teams are typically hard to deal with for Ground, and making a Ground team that beats it means that it's a reliable team considering Ground is typically a really consistent type in the metagame otherwise. But with Clodsire's role on this team I really feel like I utilized it pretty well in terms of compression, even going so far as to adding Haze on it to not lose to specific Pokemon that would be beatable if I had the team slots for it. Adding Haze to it, including Black Sludge over Heavy Duty Boots and trying to utilize the EV spread are things that I feel really helped it be sustainable for the rest of the team. It could typically run Spikes or Toxic Spikes over Haze, but using Haze covered up a lot of holes that were apparent in the team.
This is an example of an offensive glue in Dragapult being really good:
I'm a huge fan of Choice Scarf double status Dragapult because of the massive utility it brings to the table in one slot. Dragapult as a mon is something I feel like should be utilized to its maximum potential in Monotype considering just how good it is.
Choice Scarf double status Dragapult can fill all these roles on the team:
- Be amazing Speed control with 142 base Speed, outspeeding various mons like Choice Scarf Meowscarada ranging to Volcarona at +1 and Basculegion under rain
- Dragon typing gives it a Fire and Water resistance, making it really good against Fire and Water weather teams
- Double status gives it flexibility and the threat of basically crippling anything that it can't OHKO for the rest of the team, specifically Substitute Hisuian Zoroark. The two mons that do not care about it (Gholdengo and Gliscor) are dealt with by Flutter Mane
- U-turn means it can connect offensive mons to each other. Bringing in something like Flutter Mane for free as the opponent swaps to Mandibuzz against Dark is huge
- Infiltrator means you can beat Baxcalibur under Aurora Veil
This Dragapult set gives you the ability to outplay a lot of scenarios because of its flexibility alongside its role compression. I think it's important to note that outplaying is a valid form of counterplay, as you need to pilot every team well to be successful with it. Clicking the right buttons means that you have a slot on your team that is amazing offensive glue that can blanket check various threats in the tier via either its attacks or status while being a really consistent momentum grab granted you bring it in against the right Pokemon. Another form of speed control like scarf Flutter Mane would be stronger but wouldn't provide the same utility that Dragapult would.
Strong glue Pokemon allow room for strong team structures if utilized well.
Here are the other Pokemon I listed as examples and why I feel they're strong glue Pokemon:
- Gholdengo can decimate a lot of balance teams by itself, covering those matchups easily in the builder for Steel. The Rocky Helmet set specifically is really nice because it keeps hazards up extremely effectively which makes a lot of scenarios outplayable in combination with hazards
- Gliscor is a status sponge and defensive wall for both Ground and Flying that has great virtue in typing. Alongside that, the hazards it sets makes a lot of situations outplayable and being able to beat everything besides Orthworm + Corviknight with Toxic and Earthquake means that its really hard to remove if you don't have Ice coverage. Specifically, for Flying teams it alleviates the Electric and Rock weaknesses almost entirely and is great in a hazards centered metagame
- Empoleon sets Stealth Rock really well and its typing is really good for both Steel and Water. It makes the defensive core really hard to beat despite not being mandatory, and Roar means you can't set up on it with something like Volcarona or Spectrier
- Bloodmoon Ursaluna beats Chien-pao for Ground, which already takes a lot of pressure off from the type. It's also good in traditional "bad" matchups because of its bulk combined with Blood Moon
- Greninja's Choice Scarf set is really nice because it's just really fast and has Switcheroo and U-turn to cripple things and grab momentum. It's also a Dark and Ghost resist for Water and a Fire and Water resist for Dark, giving it some defensive utility too
- Brambleghast provides Rapid Spin, a Water and Ground resistance, and hazards for Ghost. Considering Ghost as a type is impossible to spin against and Gholdengo blocks Defog, providing hazards is really big. Infiltrator also means it can check Azumarill under screens too
- Ting-lu is lesser used nowadays but on the right teams it can really cover a lot. It's borderline unkillable and has Spikes and Stealth Rock, making it a really good hazard setter and phaser with Whirlwind
- Hydreigon gives Dark teams a Water, Fire resist and Ground immunity and can virtually break every balance type in existence with Nasty Plot. It can also set Stealth Rock. Its often overlooked but definitely a great role compression Pokemon
3. Hazards
I definitely feel like hazards are a huge part of the SV Monotype metagame because removal is just not that great especially with the power level being so high. Good Ghost types are everywhere, with Sableye, Gholdengo being the main examples and Gliscor being tough to remove against as a setter because of the threat of Toxic. Gholdengo blocking Defog makes hazards a lot more problematic too. Spikes in particular makes offensive threats 10x more dangerous, so keeping an eye on them is especially important.
In teambuilding, I've been keeping a good eye on the hazards interactions because I feel it is important to have success in the tier. Here are some tips that I've personally found helpful while building to keep in account hazards:
- Do I remove hazards?
- Can I win without removing hazards?
- Can I at least outplay hazards?
- Can I keep my hazards up?
Gholdengo Steel is a really good example of what building around hazards looks considering its the textbook definition of hazard stack.
Here is an example of a team to hypothetically take into consideration:
Removing hazards against it could look like this:
- Using Earthquake Iron Treads on Ground to threaten it out and then using Rapid Spin
- Cinderace's Court Change on Fire
- Poltergeist Brambleghast on Grass or Ghost
- A more offensive Quaquaval to beat defensive variants on Water
Winning without removing hazards could look like this:
- Utilizing Heavy Duty Boots on virtually any type
- Trading hazards with Gliscor on Ground and Flying so Pokemon like Bloodmoon Ursaluna or Kingambit can win
- Utilizing brute force with a breaker like Hearthflame Mask Ogerpon, Hydreigon, or Chien-pao
Outplaying hazards could look like this:
- Using Taunt on Orthworm to prevent it from setting hazards
- Getting Rapid Spin turns right combined with offensive pressure
- Setting up while it's setting hazards
Keeping hazards up could look like this:
- Pokemon that can take on Iron Treads considering its the main Rapid Spin user, for example a Ghost type like Sableye or Ground types like Gliscor and Ting-lu that can set hazards and then threaten it with Earthquake
This is a team that I made around hazards:
- Gliscor sets hazards against basically anything besides Hatterene and has Toxic to beat Rapid Spin users
- It can win against Gholdengo teams thanks to Gliscor applying its own pressure and Moltres clicking Roar to wear Steel down
- Specially Defensive Corviknight can beat Hatterene which prevents Gliscor from setting hazards
- Galarian Zapdos takes advantage of Defog users like Galarian Weezing and Corviknight to tear through teams with Defiant
This team has ways to remove hazards against the important types with Corviknight, but if it doesn't work out then Gliscor can always pressure with Galarian Zapdos while keeping hazards up. It has a good gameplan against and wich hazards in general and is why I feel like Flying is one of the best types at the moment.
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That's basically it in terms of metagame trends I've noticed in effective SV Monotype teambuilding. I hope people find this post useful and thanks for reading!
Last edited:
It’s always useful to read posts like this, really helpful tips to keep in mind.I've been building and playing ladder casually and I wanted to drop a few teams with some concepts that I feel are worth bringing up to metagame discussion. These are mainly trends I've been playing around with.
1. Rocky Helmet
Going to start small but I've been sporadically putting the item even on Pokemon like Mandibuzz and Avalugg that would normally heavily prefer boots. In an offense heavy meta I definitely feel like its a great item that lets you get the extra leg up with the chip, especially if you have priority users. It's also really nice because it trades being immune to hazards for having an opportunity cost to attack the Pokemon.
Bulky Offense
For example, this team would typically struggle against Choice Scarf Close Combat Pokemon like Sneasler and Great Tusk because Mandibuzz is overall not durable with 8 PP Roost over the course of the game, especially when it has to keep coming in on hazards after a would-be Knock Off. But with Rocky Helmet, you can still serve as a Defog user and Bloodmoon Ursaluna check while forcing chip damage on those Pokemon. For example, after 3 rounds of chip damage, Choice Band Chien-pao beats Great Tusk with Ice Shard, and after one round of chip damage Kingambit beats Sneasler after a Swords Dance.
Spikes Offense
Rocky Helmet Avalugg on this team was originally for Zamazenta since you basically 1v1 it with Iron Defense and the Rocky Helmet chip gives it repercussions if it tries to click Body Press freely. I feel like it's the main reason to be running Avalugg in this metagame since Alolan Sandslash does the spinning job way better. However, including Rocky Helmet Avalugg on this team lets it beat Fighting consistently as Alolan Ninetales and Chien-pao's Fairy and Psychic coverage basically beats everything else one way or another. I will say that I do feel like as far as glue Pokemon go, Avalugg is one of the lesser mandatory for the type its on to function and definitely one of the less consistent ones.
So basically I really have been slapping Rocky Helmet on random offense teams, especially ones with priority. Definitely feel like the item has a lot of good use when utilized correctly in terms of how in game interactions go. However, I do feel a bit iffy with putting it on Pokemon that serve a major purpose in the team, for example Clodsire on Ground and Corviknight on Flying thats more life or death in terms of the interactions. Corviknight and Clodsire having Rocky Helmet means that they suffer in certain interactions against mons like Greninja for both and Wellspring Mask Ogerpon for Clodsire. Generally speaking, 8 PP recovery sucks and it definitely means you can't just throw other items besides Leftovers onto Pokemon whenever you feel like it since the passive recovery can be game changing sometimes. It really comes down to the situations.
2. Using Strong Glue Pokemon
Honestly even though this generation has a lot of over the top Pokemon in terms of power, it also offers Pokemon that are just generally really good glue for teambuilding and cover many crucial roles at a time. Oftentimes when building SV I find that I'm strapped for slots if I ever want to build around something cool or unique. To make teambuilding more flexible I try to look for Pokemon with sets that can take up multiple roles at once to let me use the idea I had in mind more coherently. I definitely feel like maximizing the utility of these Pokemon is extremely beneficial for building, especially in this stage of the metagame.
Near the more beginning of the DLC I made a team that I feel showcases Clodsire's ability to compress roles extremely well as glue:
Anti-Water Balance
This was a teambuilding workshop request that wanted a Bloodmoon Ursaluna Ground that could consistently beat a good majority of Water teams. As far as beating Water goes, you need to include Pokemon like Great Tusk and Sandy Shocks to deal with Wellspring Mask Ogerpon and Manaphy respectively. Clodsire is the go-to Water immunity on Ground teams, but on this team it compresses a lot of the roles that are missed out on because of the additions of Sandy Shocks and Great Tusk.
For example, Clodsire can:
- Serve as a Water immunity and a Grass neutrality
- Due to not being able to fit Gliscor or Landorus, Clodsire is a Fighting resistance that can beat Zamazenta with Haze
- Without Ting-lu, Espathra is a problem but Clodsire can stop it with Haze
- Be a special wall that can wall threats like Flutter Mane, Volcarona, and Thundurus-T
- Wall Gholdengo and Hydreigon with Haze
The team's concept was not bad since Water teams are typically hard to deal with for Ground, and making a Ground team that beats it means that it's a reliable team considering Ground is typically a really consistent type in the metagame otherwise. But with Clodsire's role on this team I really feel like I utilized it pretty well in terms of compression, even going so far as to adding Haze on it to not lose to specific Pokemon that would be beatable if I had the team slots for it. Adding Haze to it, including Black Sludge over Heavy Duty Boots and trying to utilize the EV spread are things that I feel really helped it be sustainable for the rest of the team. It could typically run Spikes or Toxic Spikes over Haze, but using Haze covered up a lot of holes that were apparent in the team.
This is an example of an offensive glue in Dragapult being really good:
Spikes Bulky Offense
I'm a huge fan of Choice Scarf double status Dragapult because of the massive utility it brings to the table in one slot. Dragapult as a mon is something I feel like should be utilized to its maximum potential in Monotype considering just how good it is.
Choice Scarf double status Dragapult can fill all these roles on the team:
- Be amazing Speed control with 142 base Speed, outspeeding various mons like Choice Scarf Meowscarada ranging to Volcarona at +1 and Basculegion under rain
- Dragon typing gives it a Fire and Water resistance, making it really good against Fire and Water weather teams
- Double status gives it flexibility and the threat of basically crippling anything that it can't OHKO for the rest of the team, specifically Substitute Hisuian Zoroark. The two mons that do not care about it (Gholdengo and Gliscor) are dealt with by Flutter Mane
- U-turn means it can connect offensive mons to each other. Bringing in something like Flutter Mane for free as the opponent swaps to Mandibuzz against Dark is huge
- Infiltrator means you can beat Baxcalibur under Aurora Veil
This Dragapult set gives you the ability to outplay a lot of scenarios because of its flexibility alongside its role compression. I think it's important to note that outplaying is a valid form of counterplay, as you need to pilot every team well to be successful with it. Clicking the right buttons means that you have a slot on your team that is amazing offensive glue that can blanket check various threats in the tier via either its attacks or status while being a really consistent momentum grab granted you bring it in against the right Pokemon. Another form of speed control like scarf Flutter Mane would be stronger but wouldn't provide the same utility that Dragapult would.
Strong glue Pokemon allow room for strong team structures if utilized well.
Here are the other Pokemon I listed as examples and why I feel they're strong glue Pokemon:
- Gholdengo can decimate a lot of balance teams by itself, covering those matchups easily in the builder for Steel. The Rocky Helmet set specifically is really nice because it keeps hazards up extremely effectively which makes a lot of scenarios outplayable in combination with hazards
- Gliscor is a status sponge and defensive wall for both Ground and Flying that has great virtue in typing. Alongside that, the hazards it sets makes a lot of situations outplayable and being able to beat everything besides Orthworm + Corviknight with Toxic and Earthquake means that its really hard to remove if you don't have Ice coverage. Specifically, for Flying teams it alleviates the Electric and Rock weaknesses almost entirely and is great in a hazards centered metagame
- Empoleon sets Stealth Rock really well and its typing is really good for both Steel and Water. It makes the defensive core really hard to beat despite not being mandatory, and Roar means you can't set up on it with something like Volcarona or Spectrier
- Bloodmoon Ursaluna beats Chien-pao for Ground, which already takes a lot of pressure off from the type. It's also good in traditional "bad" matchups because of its bulk combined with Blood Moon
- Greninja's Choice Scarf set is really nice because it's just really fast and has Switcheroo and U-turn to cripple things and grab momentum. It's also a Dark and Ghost resist for Water and a Fire and Water resist for Dark, giving it some defensive utility too
- Brambleghast provides Rapid Spin, a Water and Ground resistance, and hazards for Ghost. Considering Ghost as a type is impossible to spin against and Gholdengo blocks Defog, providing hazards is really big. Infiltrator also means it can check Azumarill under screens too
- Ting-lu is lesser used nowadays but on the right teams it can really cover a lot. It's borderline unkillable and has Spikes and Stealth Rock, making it a really good hazard setter and phaser with Whirlwind
- Hydreigon gives Dark teams a Water, Fire resist and Ground immunity and can virtually break every balance type in existence with Nasty Plot. It can also set Stealth Rock. Its often overlooked but definitely a great role compression Pokemon
3. Hazards
I definitely feel like hazards are a huge part of the SV Monotype metagame because removal is just not that great especially with the power level being so high. Good Ghost types are everywhere, with Sableye, Gholdengo being the main examples and Gliscor being tough to remove against as a setter because of the threat of Toxic. Gholdengo blocking Defog makes hazards a lot more problematic too. Spikes in particular makes offensive threats 10x more dangerous, so keeping an eye on them is especially important.
In teambuilding, I've been keeping a good eye on the hazards interactions because I feel it is important to have success in the tier. Here are some tips that I've personally found helpful while building to keep in account hazards:
- Do I remove hazards?
- Can I win without removing hazards?
- Can I at least outplay hazards?
- Can I keep my hazards up?
Gholdengo Steel is a really good example of what building around hazards looks considering its the textbook definition of hazard stack.
Here is an example of a team to hypothetically take into consideration:
Hazard stack offense
Removing hazards against it could look like this:
- Using Earthquake Iron Treads on Ground to threaten it out and then using Rapid Spin
- Cinderace's Court Change on Fire
- Poltergeist Brambleghast on Grass or Ghost
- A more offensive Quaquaval to beat defensive variants on Water
Winning without removing hazards could look like this:
- Utilizing Heavy Duty Boots on virtually any type
- Trading hazards with Gliscor on Ground and Flying so Pokemon like Bloodmoon Ursaluna or Kingambit can win
- Utilizing brute force with a breaker like Hearthflame Mask Ogerpon, Hydreigon, or Chien-pao
Outplaying hazards could look like this:
- Using Taunt on Orthworm to prevent it from setting hazards
- Getting Rapid Spin turns right combined with offensive pressure
- Setting up while it's setting hazards
Keeping hazards up could look like this:
- Pokemon that can take on Iron Treads considering its the main Rapid Spin user, for example a Ghost type like Sableye or Ground types like Gliscor and Ting-lu that can set hazards and then threaten it with Earthquake
This is a team that I made around hazards:
Hazard stack balance
- Gliscor sets hazards against basically anything besides Hatterene and has Toxic to beat Rapid Spin users
- It can win against Gholdengo teams thanks to Gliscor applying its own pressure and Moltres clicking Roar to wear Steel down
- Specially Defensive Corviknight can beat Hatterene which prevents Gliscor from setting hazards
- Galarian Zapdos takes advantage of Defog users like Galarian Weezing and Corviknight to tear through teams with Defiant
This team has ways to remove hazards against the important types with Corviknight, but if it doesn't work out then Gliscor can always pressure with Galarian Zapdos while keeping hazards up. It has a good gameplan against and wich hazards in general and is why I feel like Flying is one of the best types at the moment.
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That's basically it in terms of metagame trends I've noticed in effective SV Monotype teambuilding. I hope people find this post useful and thanks for reading!
TheRealBigC
I COULD BE BANNED!
With DLC1 coming to an end, I wanted to share some reflections on and my personal type viability rankings of the metagame during this period. Most people who know me will understand I've had my ups and downs with the DLC1 meta. I overall enjoyed playing the tier during this time, and I think some of the new options we got have really opened up teambuilding and given it a fair bit more depth. However, I do think that the current meta is a good deal more matchup-oriented than it ideally should be, with nearly every type having some kind of "boogey" mon/set it borderline loses to at preview. Matchups are of course a fundamental part of Monotype due to its very nature, and you will always get some MUs that are borderline unwinnable, but this feels particularly exacerbated currently due to the insane power level of the tier. Some of this can be attributed to the general powercreep that SV brought, but in particular, I feel Ogerpon-H, Chien-Pao, Flutter Mane, and Zamazenta are all broken and/or centralizing threats. I don't want to harp on too much about why I think these mons are problematic right now seeing as the meta is going to be radically overhauled in less than 2 weeks, but I think that the council should strongly consider the possibility of tiering action on this mons if they continue being as dominant as they are currently. The banning of Urshifu-S made the tier significantly more competitive and varied in my opinion, so I hope the community as a whole will be open to the prospect of bans going forward.
With all that said, on to my type VR. I'm using the Project VOLTAGE Hatsune Miku designs as a stand-in for the types firstly because they're just cool designs, but also because the type tier list I normally use is broken. While this list is technically sorted within the ranks (left -> right = best -> worst), I wouldn't get too hung up on individual placements within ranks, as this was a little arbitrary on my part. What really matters for the purpose of this list is the ranking itself. Without further ado:
I hope you enjoyed reading this post; whether you agreed or disagreed, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts. Looking forward to DLC2.
With all that said, on to my type VR. I'm using the Project VOLTAGE Hatsune Miku designs as a stand-in for the types firstly because they're just cool designs, but also because the type tier list I normally use is broken. While this list is technically sorted within the ranks (left -> right = best -> worst), I wouldn't get too hung up on individual placements within ranks, as this was a little arbitrary on my part. What really matters for the purpose of this list is the ranking itself. Without further ado:
My SV Monotype DLC1 Type Viability Rankings but it's Mikus
Images available at https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pokémon_feat._Hatsune_Miku_Project_VOLTAGE_18_Types/Songs (note this is not a commentary on the Miku designs themselves, they're all queening)
Images available at https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pokémon_feat._Hatsune_Miku_Project_VOLTAGE_18_Types/Songs (note this is not a commentary on the Miku designs themselves, they're all queening)
Water - I was a little torn about what to put as #1 as all the S rank types are on close to the same level for me, but I feel Water just slightly edges out the other two due to its versatility and consistency. Water is an inherently great type, and I feel its gain of Empoleon really solidified Water's already excellent defensive profile; it feels like you really can't go wrong with a Water team as long as you include Toxapex, Empoleon, and a Water/Ground of your choice. Aside from being amazing defensively, Water is also very offensively threatening, with a plethora of amazing offensive options in Greninja, Walking Wake, Urshifu-R, Ogerpon-W, and so on, along with plenty of good hazard setters and pivots. This isn't even mentioning that all these threats can be boosted by rain, which also has the advantage of countering the weathers of Fire and Ice. If Water has one issue, it's that its hazard removal options aren't particularly great; however, you can easily just slap Heavy-Duty Boots on your whole team and make it work thanks to Gastrodon's Knock Off and Trick immunity.
Dark - Same broken and braindead nonsense as pre-DLC pretty much. Chien-Pao and Kingambit are insane together, and the rest of your options give you all the support you might want. Mandibuzz was a great addition to this type, giving you the flexibility to drop Sableye and enabling Choice Band Chien-Pao. I think Alolan Muk is basically mandatory on this type nowadays, and really helps carry Dark against its weaknesses. I don't really have too much to add here, if you've been playing SV Monotype for any decent length of time you're probably fully aware of how plainly strong this type is and how easy it is to use. It's only really kept out of the #1 slot for me due to the prominence of Fairy in this metagame which can give it consistency issues, and also because it feels like it suffers from six-mon syndrome sometimes, but I think it would be pretty fair if you were to say it's the best.
Flying - They said I fell off... OOOH I NEEDED THAT
I thought initially when this DLC dropped that the rise of Ice's viability would dethrone Flying. While I think the type has perhaps fallen from grace ever so slightly and is no longer king of the tier, it's still insanely strong, bulky, and versatile, and is essentially a giant middle finger to the hazard stack shenanigans that dictate so much of the rest of the tier. Gliscor has been absolutely phenomenal for Flying, offering tons of role compression and just being an all around excellent mon. Similar to Water, I think as long as you include Gliscor, Corviknight, Scarf Enamorus, and Articuno in your Flying team, you can really just about make anything work and tailor your team to the specific types you want to counter. I do think the type is held back slightly by being vulnerable to both Ice and Fire, but these matchups generally aren't unwinnable and Flying is overall a type that continues to soar above the majority of the metagame.
Dark - Same broken and braindead nonsense as pre-DLC pretty much. Chien-Pao and Kingambit are insane together, and the rest of your options give you all the support you might want. Mandibuzz was a great addition to this type, giving you the flexibility to drop Sableye and enabling Choice Band Chien-Pao. I think Alolan Muk is basically mandatory on this type nowadays, and really helps carry Dark against its weaknesses. I don't really have too much to add here, if you've been playing SV Monotype for any decent length of time you're probably fully aware of how plainly strong this type is and how easy it is to use. It's only really kept out of the #1 slot for me due to the prominence of Fairy in this metagame which can give it consistency issues, and also because it feels like it suffers from six-mon syndrome sometimes, but I think it would be pretty fair if you were to say it's the best.
Flying - They said I fell off... OOOH I NEEDED THAT
I thought initially when this DLC dropped that the rise of Ice's viability would dethrone Flying. While I think the type has perhaps fallen from grace ever so slightly and is no longer king of the tier, it's still insanely strong, bulky, and versatile, and is essentially a giant middle finger to the hazard stack shenanigans that dictate so much of the rest of the tier. Gliscor has been absolutely phenomenal for Flying, offering tons of role compression and just being an all around excellent mon. Similar to Water, I think as long as you include Gliscor, Corviknight, Scarf Enamorus, and Articuno in your Flying team, you can really just about make anything work and tailor your team to the specific types you want to counter. I do think the type is held back slightly by being vulnerable to both Ice and Fire, but these matchups generally aren't unwinnable and Flying is overall a type that continues to soar above the majority of the metagame.
Fairy - Flutter Mane and Iron Valiant. Need I say more? On the surface, it may appear Fairy didn’t change too much with DLC1, but Azumarill gaining Knock Off was genuinely huge for the type as it means it can no longer be impeded by Toxapex and Water Absorb Clodsire. Fairy continues to find relevance as a kind of ‘anti-meta’ type, matching up extremely well into Dark and having various techs to beat Water and Flying. Your offensive options are incredibly fast, powerful, and for Valiant at least, pretty versatile. However, Fairy just avoids S rank for me due to its defensive tools being a bit inconsistent (Hatterene is great but having to rely on it as your only source of hazard removal isn’t ideal) and the type’s weaknesses to Fire and Scizor.
Ground - The additions of Ursaluna-B, Mamoswine, and Gliscor have really opened up Ground's teambuilding, solving a lot of the type's former issues and cementing it as one of the best consistent balance picks in the game. Ursaluna-B especially almost reaches the cusp of being broken for me; it is so overwhelmingly powerful and bulky, and manages to put in work even in bad MUs. I think Ground is the best example of just how good hazard stack strategies are in SV Mono, with the type being very adept at both layering hazards and keeping them off its side of the field. Ground is held back slightly by matching up poorly against Water, Flying, and Ice, but none of these MUs bar Ice are unwinnable, and it is extremely good against the entire rest of the metagame (bar Grass I guess).
Fire - I have to say I didn't anticipate this type becoming as powerful as it is in the current meta, but here we are. Ogerpon-H is a nasty mon, being able to win some MUs effectively at preview given the right set and overall being near impossible to prep for or defensively answer. It has to be offensively outmanoeuvered, which given its high speed, power, and actually decent defensive typing and bulk, is far easier said than done. It's only really held back by the Stealth Rock weakness, but with that Speed tier and STAB Horn Leech does it even matter? One thing Ogerpon-H has done for Fire has tipped the sun Fire vs rainless Water MU in Fire's favour, which feels insane to say, but it's true. Outside of Ogerpon-H, Ceruledge is also incredibly powerful and game-ending after having gained Poltergeist with the DLC, and the type has an assortment of other amazing offensive threats such as Volcarona, Cinderace, Hisuian Arcanine, and so on, all boosted by sun. I will say that Fire is held back by its weakness to Water and by its really poor hazard removal options, which is pretty debilitating for a type with a blanket Stealth Rock weakness, but it is incredibly powerful right now and should not be taken lightly.
Ground - The additions of Ursaluna-B, Mamoswine, and Gliscor have really opened up Ground's teambuilding, solving a lot of the type's former issues and cementing it as one of the best consistent balance picks in the game. Ursaluna-B especially almost reaches the cusp of being broken for me; it is so overwhelmingly powerful and bulky, and manages to put in work even in bad MUs. I think Ground is the best example of just how good hazard stack strategies are in SV Mono, with the type being very adept at both layering hazards and keeping them off its side of the field. Ground is held back slightly by matching up poorly against Water, Flying, and Ice, but none of these MUs bar Ice are unwinnable, and it is extremely good against the entire rest of the metagame (bar Grass I guess).
Fire - I have to say I didn't anticipate this type becoming as powerful as it is in the current meta, but here we are. Ogerpon-H is a nasty mon, being able to win some MUs effectively at preview given the right set and overall being near impossible to prep for or defensively answer. It has to be offensively outmanoeuvered, which given its high speed, power, and actually decent defensive typing and bulk, is far easier said than done. It's only really held back by the Stealth Rock weakness, but with that Speed tier and STAB Horn Leech does it even matter? One thing Ogerpon-H has done for Fire has tipped the sun Fire vs rainless Water MU in Fire's favour, which feels insane to say, but it's true. Outside of Ogerpon-H, Ceruledge is also incredibly powerful and game-ending after having gained Poltergeist with the DLC, and the type has an assortment of other amazing offensive threats such as Volcarona, Cinderace, Hisuian Arcanine, and so on, all boosted by sun. I will say that Fire is held back by its weakness to Water and by its really poor hazard removal options, which is pretty debilitating for a type with a blanket Stealth Rock weakness, but it is incredibly powerful right now and should not be taken lightly.
Fighting - It's six really good mons stapled together. In my opinion the most boring and skill-less type in the game, Fighting remains a strong offensive pick even after the Urshifu-S ban, being great as an anti-Dark option especially. However, it is a bit limited by the prominence of Flying and Fairy, its mono Psychic weakness, and having no good Spikes setters to help enable its offensive powerhouses. Not too much more to say here. Shoutouts to Zamazenta for being a cheesy MU fish mon with a stupid Speed tier and (who would have guessed!) box legendary tier defenses.
Ice - Although the Ice hype has died down a bit since the Baxcalibur suspect, this type is still very strong and a nice anti-meta pick. Baxcalibur + Chien-Pao with snow and Aurora Veil support is an insane offensive combination that is very difficult for balance structures to deal with, and Alolan Ninetales is an excellent setter of snow and great all around support mon. Ice's support options aren't that bad either, with Mamoswine being a great threat to Steels and Stealth Rock setter, Froslass as a good suicide Spikes lead and Fighting immunity, and Alolan Sandslash as a surprisingly good role compressor that is great for keeping hazards off of offensive squads. I will say this type wishes it had some better special attackers to help bust through problem mons like Corviknight and Quagsire, is a bit inconsistent overall, and is pretty prone to finding itself in truly unwinnable MUs (Fighting, Steel/Bug Scizor, Fire etc.), but is on balance a good pick with a clearly defined niche in the tier. Just don't use Avalugg!
Dragon - Feel like people underrate this slightly? Really solid offensive type that benefitted a lot from the gain of Kommo-o to check Chien-Pao and the buffing of Baxcalibur, Roaring Moon, and Walking Wake. Passing Shed Tail to Baxcalibur can be an automatic gg, and Dragon has the support to enable its offensive options in Garchomp, Hisuian Goodra, Dragalge, and even Hex Dragapult. Curtailed a bit by the prevalence of Scarf Enamorus on Flying teams as well as Fairy and Ice, and it tends to be suffer from six-mon syndrome a lot in my experience, but you can't too wrong with a team of beefy pseudo-legends and Paradoxes.
Ghost - Continuing the trend of B being full of no-nonsense offensive types, I think people have been showing off what Ghost is capable of more and more recently. Fundamentally the type is just offensively stacked, and many interesting strategies and variations of cores can be used to enable this offense and check different types. I've been particularly enjoying the rise of Hex Spectrier recently as an anti-Gliscor measure. Overall Ghost is a bit inconsistent and does not enjoy Dark being as good as it is, but is still a good option that can be downright ghastly in the right MUs, with the dogpile of Flutter Mane + Spectrier + Gholdengo being very scary indeed.
Poison - Sleeper balance type that loses hard against Flying and Ground, but is otherwise a decent pick. Galarian Weezing dramatically improved Poison's teambuilding prospects, helping to enable Poison's classic Regenerator core with Defog and Wisp support in addition to its Ground immunity. Aside from these, Alolan Muk is excellent as always at holding the type together and opening foes up to your hazards, and Sneasler and Iron Moth are as offensively potent as ever. I want to highlight Okidogi especially here as a suprisingly tanky sweeper that can go really crazy a lot faster than you would think, and can be very annoying to switch into thanks to the fiendish combination of Knock Off + Toxic Chain. I do think it is a bit of an ask to bring Poison in this Gliscor meta, but to me it has demonstrated it can really put in consistent work outside of this.
Ice - Although the Ice hype has died down a bit since the Baxcalibur suspect, this type is still very strong and a nice anti-meta pick. Baxcalibur + Chien-Pao with snow and Aurora Veil support is an insane offensive combination that is very difficult for balance structures to deal with, and Alolan Ninetales is an excellent setter of snow and great all around support mon. Ice's support options aren't that bad either, with Mamoswine being a great threat to Steels and Stealth Rock setter, Froslass as a good suicide Spikes lead and Fighting immunity, and Alolan Sandslash as a surprisingly good role compressor that is great for keeping hazards off of offensive squads. I will say this type wishes it had some better special attackers to help bust through problem mons like Corviknight and Quagsire, is a bit inconsistent overall, and is pretty prone to finding itself in truly unwinnable MUs (Fighting, Steel/Bug Scizor, Fire etc.), but is on balance a good pick with a clearly defined niche in the tier. Just don't use Avalugg!
Dragon - Feel like people underrate this slightly? Really solid offensive type that benefitted a lot from the gain of Kommo-o to check Chien-Pao and the buffing of Baxcalibur, Roaring Moon, and Walking Wake. Passing Shed Tail to Baxcalibur can be an automatic gg, and Dragon has the support to enable its offensive options in Garchomp, Hisuian Goodra, Dragalge, and even Hex Dragapult. Curtailed a bit by the prevalence of Scarf Enamorus on Flying teams as well as Fairy and Ice, and it tends to be suffer from six-mon syndrome a lot in my experience, but you can't too wrong with a team of beefy pseudo-legends and Paradoxes.
Ghost - Continuing the trend of B being full of no-nonsense offensive types, I think people have been showing off what Ghost is capable of more and more recently. Fundamentally the type is just offensively stacked, and many interesting strategies and variations of cores can be used to enable this offense and check different types. I've been particularly enjoying the rise of Hex Spectrier recently as an anti-Gliscor measure. Overall Ghost is a bit inconsistent and does not enjoy Dark being as good as it is, but is still a good option that can be downright ghastly in the right MUs, with the dogpile of Flutter Mane + Spectrier + Gholdengo being very scary indeed.
Poison - Sleeper balance type that loses hard against Flying and Ground, but is otherwise a decent pick. Galarian Weezing dramatically improved Poison's teambuilding prospects, helping to enable Poison's classic Regenerator core with Defog and Wisp support in addition to its Ground immunity. Aside from these, Alolan Muk is excellent as always at holding the type together and opening foes up to your hazards, and Sneasler and Iron Moth are as offensively potent as ever. I want to highlight Okidogi especially here as a suprisingly tanky sweeper that can go really crazy a lot faster than you would think, and can be very annoying to switch into thanks to the fiendish combination of Knock Off + Toxic Chain. I do think it is a bit of an ask to bring Poison in this Gliscor meta, but to me it has demonstrated it can really put in consistent work outside of this.
Steel - Hater rank... it might seem a little silly to put Steel in its own rank like this and split up C, but to me it is clearly worse than everything above it (bar maybe Poison) yet clearly better than everything below it, so here we are. Fundamentally, a type with Kingambit and Gholdengo can only be so bad, but Steel has fallen off fairly dramatically compared to pre-DLC. Steel just finds itself in a really difficult spot in this metagame, really hating the prominence of Water, Gliscor, Ogerpon-H, Ceruledge, and quite a few other mons that it fundamentally doesn't really have long-term answers for. Because of this, although it has pretty great MUs against Fairy, Ice, and Poison, it ends up feeling pretty inconsistent to me and that you're always praying you won't run into Fire. I do think the exploration of options like Orthworm, Scizor, and even Ability Shield Heatran do show this type has a bit of untapped potential and could rise again in the future, but right now I would struggle to recommend it for serious use in tournament play.
Bug - The darling of mid ladder players everywhere, Bug is... decent. Volcarona and Scizor are really scary, especially with their newfound Ribombee support, but Bug has no spinblocker, and little in the way of a defensive profile. The rest of your offensive options outside of Volcarona and Scizor are fairly subpar, although Kleavor's Stone Axe is a nice progess-maker. Bug isn't awful by any means, and is notable for having a great MUs vs Fairy and Ice, but it is way too inconsistent for my liking.
Normal - Can you say underrated and overhated? As I keep saying, Ursaluna-B is absolutely ridiculous with Shed Tail and/or Arboliva support, and outside of this I think Hisuian Zoroark and Staraptor are both really solid offensive mons that mean this type should not be dismissed as a meme pick. I do think that right now the hazard support isn't really there to fully enable your offensive options, that your options outside of the aforementioned aren't that great overall, and that Normal ends up being a bit of a jack of all trades master of none type due to it not really "beating" any type in particular besides maybe Poison and Ghost. With all that being said, while certainly not a top tier, Normal can take games by surprise, and is not to be underestimated.
Grass - Grass is no longer (completely) ass, rejoice! Ogerpon-H is nearly as busted here as it is on Fire, your other offensive options such as Scarf Meowscarada, Hisuian Lilligant, and Sinistcha are also pretty good, and you even have Spikes and spin support and a solid defensive pivot. Ultimately though, Grass is very inconsistent against the metagame as a whole. To me, this is because Grass spam fundamentally isn't that great to build a team around, and Grass can't really deal with any of its core weaknesses, which are all very prevalent. It has a solid niche as a hard answer to Water, but struggles to find a defined purpose outside of this.
Normal - Can you say underrated and overhated? As I keep saying, Ursaluna-B is absolutely ridiculous with Shed Tail and/or Arboliva support, and outside of this I think Hisuian Zoroark and Staraptor are both really solid offensive mons that mean this type should not be dismissed as a meme pick. I do think that right now the hazard support isn't really there to fully enable your offensive options, that your options outside of the aforementioned aren't that great overall, and that Normal ends up being a bit of a jack of all trades master of none type due to it not really "beating" any type in particular besides maybe Poison and Ghost. With all that being said, while certainly not a top tier, Normal can take games by surprise, and is not to be underestimated.
Grass - Grass is no longer (completely) ass, rejoice! Ogerpon-H is nearly as busted here as it is on Fire, your other offensive options such as Scarf Meowscarada, Hisuian Lilligant, and Sinistcha are also pretty good, and you even have Spikes and spin support and a solid defensive pivot. Ultimately though, Grass is very inconsistent against the metagame as a whole. To me, this is because Grass spam fundamentally isn't that great to build a team around, and Grass can't really deal with any of its core weaknesses, which are all very prevalent. It has a solid niche as a hard answer to Water, but struggles to find a defined purpose outside of this.
Electric - Electric has a pretty good MUs against Water and Fairy, and isn't the worst, but those aren't really compelling reasons to load it. I wouldn't even say Electric has a good MU against Flying any more, since it has a nightmare trying to deal with Gliscor. This type to me is just a ragtag band of mons who are all individually pretty decent, but don't really come together to form a cohesive whole that is worth considering in serious play. Electric lacks a clear niche and the current meta is very hostile to it, and thus it finds itself in D rank.
Psychic - You can do cool things with Psychic teambuilding, and DLC1 additions like Jirachi and Scald on Slowbro were very useful for the type. However, similar to Electric, there ends up being little purpose in running Psychic in a meta so ill-suited for it. It ends up being fairly mediocre both offensively and defensively, not having the ideal Speed tiers and firepower on the offensive side, and being unable to effectively deal with its weaknesses on the defensive side. In terms of MUs, it doesn't really serve as a hard answer to anything besides Fighting, and hates Dark spam. Unfortunate placement as this is a type I personally find really fun to use, but it's just not good overall.
Psychic - You can do cool things with Psychic teambuilding, and DLC1 additions like Jirachi and Scald on Slowbro were very useful for the type. However, similar to Electric, there ends up being little purpose in running Psychic in a meta so ill-suited for it. It ends up being fairly mediocre both offensively and defensively, not having the ideal Speed tiers and firepower on the offensive side, and being unable to effectively deal with its weaknesses on the defensive side. In terms of MUs, it doesn't really serve as a hard answer to anything besides Fighting, and hates Dark spam. Unfortunate placement as this is a type I personally find really fun to use, but it's just not good overall.
Rock - Rock gets its own wooden spoon rank as the only type in the game that I think is truly unviable. Ogerpon-C is a demon and can take games if your opponent is asleep at the wheel. However, this type just lacks offensive or defensive synergy, being practically unable to deal with its very common weaknesses, and not being particularly offensively impressive outside of Ogerpon-C. While I can see reasons you might pick the types I ranked in D, the same is unfortunately not true for Rock. Using this type is effectively a self-imposed challenge in the current metagame.
I hope you enjoyed reading this post; whether you agreed or disagreed, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts. Looking forward to DLC2.
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You could of just said "Fuck you, I'm using the Miku designs as their base and none of you can stop me" for a far better introduction. You almost lost me there with that sap story.
Now onto the actual point of the post.
Personally speaking I think Steel being in its own tier is a bit ridiculous. A lot of the issues Steel runs into, other types have similar issues just change a few mon. Poison hates the prominence of Ground, Gliscor, Landorus-I, Baxcalibur and Ogerpon-H, Fairy really hates the vibes stuff like Poison, Toxic Spikes and Alolan Muk bring and so on. And as you said before, Ghold + Gambit is a disgusting combo (Gambit ban when?)
Granted it might be because of how many issues this type has caused me to suffer form a mild case of overrating but, eh.
Also Poison doesn't do that badly into Flying, its only really Landorus is the big issues. Once thats taken care of, depending on the Poison and the Flying team, it might unironically be in Poison's favor. (Bulk up Ice Punch Okidogi my beloved.)
Now onto the actual point of the post.
Personally speaking I think Steel being in its own tier is a bit ridiculous. A lot of the issues Steel runs into, other types have similar issues just change a few mon. Poison hates the prominence of Ground, Gliscor, Landorus-I, Baxcalibur and Ogerpon-H, Fairy really hates the vibes stuff like Poison, Toxic Spikes and Alolan Muk bring and so on. And as you said before, Ghold + Gambit is a disgusting combo (Gambit ban when?)
Granted it might be because of how many issues this type has caused me to suffer form a mild case of overrating but, eh.
Also Poison doesn't do that badly into Flying, its only really Landorus is the big issues. Once thats taken care of, depending on the Poison and the Flying team, it might unironically be in Poison's favor. (Bulk up Ice Punch Okidogi my beloved.)
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As we approach the end of DLC1, I decided to make a matchup chart for everyone's favorite low-tier type, Grass. As the maker of the Grass sample, I think I have a decent modicum of experience with which to make these judgments; feel free to disagree, though - disagreement indicates discussion, and discussion is what we like. also touching grass is good for your health, according to 9/10 doctors
(Ordered within tiers - the farther left a type is, the easier / harder it is to win against)
Here are some short explanations to justify my side of things.
(Ordered within tiers - the farther left a type is, the easier / harder it is to win against)
Here are some short explanations to justify my side of things.
Ice: Well, this should be self-evident. While Ogerpon-H can pose a semblance of a threat to Ice and Shell Smash Torterra can take one down, the opponent either has to be the lowest-IQ person on earth or have no Ice Shard users (??) on their team to win. I'd just click X at preview if I were you.
Dragon: Similarly to Ice, you struggle to break through Dragon thanks to its natural type resistance. Baxcalibur is also hell. You can do more in this matchup than against Ice, but it's difficult.
Dragon: Similarly to Ice, you struggle to break through Dragon thanks to its natural type resistance. Baxcalibur is also hell. You can do more in this matchup than against Ice, but it's difficult.
Fire: I was borderline on putting this in Unwinnable, but the main thing that kept me in Difficult is that not all Fire teams run Skeledirge, meaning that Shell Smash Torterra with Rock Blast and Ogerpon-H with Rock Tomb can do some work in this matchup. Scarfers are painful to deal with, though.
Flying: Flying is another difficult matchup, but the counterplay I listed against Fire is your friend in this MU.
Bug: Bug is another type with a natural advantage against Grass, and Choice Scarf Kleavor and Sticky Web both pose a major threat to you. The reason this is better than Fire and Flying is that Ogerpon-H can actually do stuff if you manage to remove Kleavor from the equation.
Dark: Hey, look! A type without a natural advantage...oh, well, shit. Chien-Pao decimates Grass like a winter storm, but if you can remove it, this matchup is pretty even. Choice Scarf Meowscarada puts in pretty good work, as well.
Poison: And back to the terrible type chart wars. This matchup is actually oddly okay if you slot in Heavy Slam on Torterra to smack Galarian Weezing, and Ogerpon-H puts in serious work here, but it's basically unwinnable if you let those two go down.
Fighting: Sneasler is annoying, but other than that, the MU is rather even (perhaps slightly in your favor thanks to Scarf Meowscarada).
Flying: Flying is another difficult matchup, but the counterplay I listed against Fire is your friend in this MU.
Bug: Bug is another type with a natural advantage against Grass, and Choice Scarf Kleavor and Sticky Web both pose a major threat to you. The reason this is better than Fire and Flying is that Ogerpon-H can actually do stuff if you manage to remove Kleavor from the equation.
Dark: Hey, look! A type without a natural advantage...oh, well, shit. Chien-Pao decimates Grass like a winter storm, but if you can remove it, this matchup is pretty even. Choice Scarf Meowscarada puts in pretty good work, as well.
Poison: And back to the terrible type chart wars. This matchup is actually oddly okay if you slot in Heavy Slam on Torterra to smack Galarian Weezing, and Ogerpon-H puts in serious work here, but it's basically unwinnable if you let those two go down.
Fighting: Sneasler is annoying, but other than that, the MU is rather even (perhaps slightly in your favor thanks to Scarf Meowscarada).
Fairy: Fairy is rather even, as both players can annoy each other with Amoonguss taking Fairy STAB and Choice Specs Flutter Mane clicking Mystical Fire on repeat. This matchup usually comes up to which player plays better and manages their wincons.
Ghost: Again, Specs Flutter Mane can be problematic, but Choice Scarf Meowscarada is always a threat to sweep. Be wary of the Fire/Ghost, though, whether it be Ceruledge or Skeledirge.
Normal: This MU can fluctuate depending on if you have a Grass/Fighting or not, but in general it's pretty even unless you can get Hisuian Lilligant going. I'd probably make it lean a bit in Grass's favor, but not quite enough to be in winnable.
Ghost: Again, Specs Flutter Mane can be problematic, but Choice Scarf Meowscarada is always a threat to sweep. Be wary of the Fire/Ghost, though, whether it be Ceruledge or Skeledirge.
Normal: This MU can fluctuate depending on if you have a Grass/Fighting or not, but in general it's pretty even unless you can get Hisuian Lilligant going. I'd probably make it lean a bit in Grass's favor, but not quite enough to be in winnable.
Water: Water is very easy to win, as long as you can deal with Toxapex. Every member of your team threatens their team, so this shouldn't be too hard to win.
Ground: Another matchup where you have the type advantage; Sludge Bomb Lando can be annoying, but that's practically the only threat you have to deal with on the offensive side. Clodsire can take a few hits, but repeated offensive pressure will eventually break it down and it's a good opportunity to get off an SD on Ogerpon-H.
Steel: This MU is rather easy to win. If you get either a Shell Smash off with Torterra or a Swords Dance off with Ogerpon-H, it's practically game over. Be careful of Drill Peck Corviknight, though.
Electric: Theorycrafting here as I have never played the Grass/Electric MU, but you resist Electric STAB and nothing really stops Torterra from setting up bar the Electric birds.
Psychic: Armarouge can be troubling, but Choice Scarf Meowscarada goes off in this matchup. Shell Smash Torterra and Ogerpon-H do as well. So can Brambleghast and Sinistcha.
Ground: Another matchup where you have the type advantage; Sludge Bomb Lando can be annoying, but that's practically the only threat you have to deal with on the offensive side. Clodsire can take a few hits, but repeated offensive pressure will eventually break it down and it's a good opportunity to get off an SD on Ogerpon-H.
Steel: This MU is rather easy to win. If you get either a Shell Smash off with Torterra or a Swords Dance off with Ogerpon-H, it's practically game over. Be careful of Drill Peck Corviknight, though.
Electric: Theorycrafting here as I have never played the Grass/Electric MU, but you resist Electric STAB and nothing really stops Torterra from setting up bar the Electric birds.
Psychic: Armarouge can be troubling, but Choice Scarf Meowscarada goes off in this matchup. Shell Smash Torterra and Ogerpon-H do as well. So can Brambleghast and Sinistcha.
Rock: Hisuian Arcanine can be annoying, but besides that, nothing really threatens you except the occasional Glimmora. In return, every single one of your team can threaten to beat Rock by itself.
Attachments
Most of it is pretty arbitrary but main places I see as more contention are placement of Rock, steel, and Dragon.
To compare Rock to the D types you listed. Elec had at best a neutral flying mu before DLC and now the team is seriously struggling because of how it lacks role compression and got zilch in DLC. Even DLC2 I think Elec will seriously struggle structure wise unless either Zapdos or Rotom get defog again. It's basically a type that couldn't keep it's spot as a somewhat ok anti meta and fell behind completely. Psy, similarly, is lacking a role compression mon to bring it all together, so even though you have your classic RachiBro core, Hoopa U, your psy/fairy, and something like Gallade and a filler mon - the best it can do is matchup fish with Espathra in a dark dominant meta. Even matchups like Water which the type used to excel at, ends up getting mons picked off every other turn with Hamurott. Structurally Psy is in pain, and the few positives of the type have kinda just washed away.
Rock, in comparison, I think is far more structurally sound. You said there's no synergy, but offensively I think Rock works together pretty well. It's not a top tier type by any means, but between HArc, Kleavor, Ogerpon, Ttar, and Glimm, you have a solid 5 that I think work together far better than anything elec or psy can really pull off. The last slot really rounds the team out with what you want to cover, whether it's lycanroc, Diancie, or Drednaw, they fit pretty well. Genuinely, I think Rock has far more of a role in this meta than Elec or Psy do, and I'd find it far more difficult to pull either of those 2 from the builder as opposed to Rock. Either way I see Rock as D tier, held back moreso by it's typing rather than the inability to form a coherent structure like Psy and Elec.
Dragon I also see as a definitive A tier. A solid Fire mu in this meta goes a long way, not to mention many key mus like winning the Flying, new checks to Dark, and ability to effectively matchup fish water with shed tail + dnite. It's a solid in this meta, and even types like fairy it has some reasonable counterplay to.
No reason for Steel to be in C tier. Super solid type with a few different ways you can build it too. The only reason why it might not be A tier is cause FireMask Pon which should 100% be suspected and banned.
Arase
Banned deucer.
hello everyone today we have a fun activity for yall to do, MONOTYPE AWARDS !!!! thats right baby time for some voting, https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdXMlw-caMdmts3BFV2nB1fMGyCEdDFSv8uZ9W-DULwPPM1pQ/viewform
this is not official its just for the funsies (and annoy some ppl by putting them in the most likely to choke category) so just enjoy !
this is not official its just for the funsies (and annoy some ppl by putting them in the most likely to choke category) so just enjoy !
TheRealBigC
I COULD BE BANNED!
Since DLC1 is ending who wants to admit they have a crush on me discuss some of the returning and new confirmed mons that look interesting for the meta?
Classic staple pick for both types. I think Corv is probably to be used more overall because I can't see Skarm keeping Defog given SV's track record, but Spikes are really nice for both types given the current lack of setters, the higher Def will let Skarm be better as a Pao/Bax answer, and you can always just double up on Steel/Flying mons.
STICKY WEB URSA-B BAYBAY (also a hazard setter that isn't Blissey or Dudunsparce; will notably get Ceaseless Edge and Stone Axe now and I think Salt Cure is funny as well)
Assuming this doesn't get quickbanned, Blaziken is going to be extremely strong on both types. Very little is standing up to Fire + Fighting + Knock coverage; can see this snowballing really easily especially with sun support on Fire. Will be a demon under screens.
Having a Water/Ground with pivoting will be nice for more fast-paced Water teams. Gastro and Quag will probably be used more overall due to their superior defensive traits, but Swampert seems like a nice midground with its own niche that makes it worth using. Hopefully it will get Spikes too.
Latias's viability is very dependent on whether it still gets Defog, but if it does, it will be nice as a fast removal and Healing Wish support mon on both types. Latios is pretty huge for Psychic, finally giving the type a naturally fast offensive threat with great coverage that isn't Azelf. Defensively, the Fire and Water resists are also very nice. On Dragon I think Latios will be significantly harder to fit, especially given that Kyurem and Raging Bolt are also coming in the DLC, but will still be obviously decent. As an aside, Psychic is so strapped for good options right now that you'd possibly end up running both of these on one team.
Could be a pretty useful addition for Rock teams? Solid Rock with that level of physical bulk will let it soak up Close Combats and Earthquakes pretty well, and its massive Attack stat means it will be threatening even with little to no investment. Seems like it will form a nice defensive core with specially defensive Tyranitar, but we'll see how much it gets used.
Another fast and strong Rock mon for the pile... this is pretty good for things like Kingambit and Iron Treads at least. Will definitely establish itself as a staple on the type.
Free my boy, Bax is better than him (EDIT: I forgot Teravolt lets you bypass Unaware)
Absolutely huge for Ice; the combination of Freeze-Dry and Earth Power will be nightmarish for Water teams to deal with, Kyurem can run a Specs set to help the type break through Corv, and its classic SubRoost set will be very difficult to break through with snow + Aurora Veil support (although Roost only having 8 PP now is unfortunate). The Fire neutrality and Earth Power will also make this very useful in the Fire MU. It will be extremely good on Dragon also, blasting through things like Toxapex, Gliscor, and so on.
Not sure of how much potential Incineroar has, but Intimidate + Knock Off + pivoting support is always useful. I don't know what set you would run at this juncture, but I could see physically defensive to deal with Pao or Assault Vest to take on FM both being decent options. Will likely be more of a Fire choice than a Dark one if it ends up seeing major use.
Another mon where I'm unsure just how much it will get used, but Primarina has a lot going for it in this meta as a Chien-Pao and Zamazenta check on Water. Water/Fairy with a solid defensive profile and CM Draining Kiss can't be bad at any rate. Interested to see how prevalent this ends up being.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMM??? Could maybe be tried, it's strong and bulky for sure but the Speed tier and defensive typing are both horrible. Possibly too much with Trick Room I guess
Obviously we don't know stat spread or moves just yet, but judging from Duraludon's more physically oriented defensive profile and Archaludon's confirmed Electric coverage, it seems like it could be great on Steel as an anti-Water mon. Unsure of how it will fit on Dragon; I don't think you'd want to drop Hisuian Goodra to run this instead due to Hisuian Goodra's special bulk, so you'd probably use both?
Raging Bolt's viability really depends on its stat spread and movepool, but its new move Thunderclap (essentially Electric-type Sucker Punch) seems very strong. I could see a CM set on this being very deadly if it ends up getting it, almost like a faster specially oriented Kingambit. In any case, this will likely be great for Electric at least as a Fire check and Water resist.
Again, depends on stat spread and movepool, but will be huge for Psychic if it ends up being fast and powerful and has good coverage. Tachyon Cutter seems promising if it has 50 BP (it's a Steel-type special Dragon Darts essentially).
Roll on Indigo Disk
Classic staple pick for both types. I think Corv is probably to be used more overall because I can't see Skarm keeping Defog given SV's track record, but Spikes are really nice for both types given the current lack of setters, the higher Def will let Skarm be better as a Pao/Bax answer, and you can always just double up on Steel/Flying mons.
STICKY WEB URSA-B BAYBAY (also a hazard setter that isn't Blissey or Dudunsparce; will notably get Ceaseless Edge and Stone Axe now and I think Salt Cure is funny as well)
Assuming this doesn't get quickbanned, Blaziken is going to be extremely strong on both types. Very little is standing up to Fire + Fighting + Knock coverage; can see this snowballing really easily especially with sun support on Fire. Will be a demon under screens.
Having a Water/Ground with pivoting will be nice for more fast-paced Water teams. Gastro and Quag will probably be used more overall due to their superior defensive traits, but Swampert seems like a nice midground with its own niche that makes it worth using. Hopefully it will get Spikes too.
Latias's viability is very dependent on whether it still gets Defog, but if it does, it will be nice as a fast removal and Healing Wish support mon on both types. Latios is pretty huge for Psychic, finally giving the type a naturally fast offensive threat with great coverage that isn't Azelf. Defensively, the Fire and Water resists are also very nice. On Dragon I think Latios will be significantly harder to fit, especially given that Kyurem and Raging Bolt are also coming in the DLC, but will still be obviously decent. As an aside, Psychic is so strapped for good options right now that you'd possibly end up running both of these on one team.
Could be a pretty useful addition for Rock teams? Solid Rock with that level of physical bulk will let it soak up Close Combats and Earthquakes pretty well, and its massive Attack stat means it will be threatening even with little to no investment. Seems like it will form a nice defensive core with specially defensive Tyranitar, but we'll see how much it gets used.
Another fast and strong Rock mon for the pile... this is pretty good for things like Kingambit and Iron Treads at least. Will definitely establish itself as a staple on the type.
Free my boy, Bax is better than him (EDIT: I forgot Teravolt lets you bypass Unaware)
Absolutely huge for Ice; the combination of Freeze-Dry and Earth Power will be nightmarish for Water teams to deal with, Kyurem can run a Specs set to help the type break through Corv, and its classic SubRoost set will be very difficult to break through with snow + Aurora Veil support (although Roost only having 8 PP now is unfortunate). The Fire neutrality and Earth Power will also make this very useful in the Fire MU. It will be extremely good on Dragon also, blasting through things like Toxapex, Gliscor, and so on.
Not sure of how much potential Incineroar has, but Intimidate + Knock Off + pivoting support is always useful. I don't know what set you would run at this juncture, but I could see physically defensive to deal with Pao or Assault Vest to take on FM both being decent options. Will likely be more of a Fire choice than a Dark one if it ends up seeing major use.
Another mon where I'm unsure just how much it will get used, but Primarina has a lot going for it in this meta as a Chien-Pao and Zamazenta check on Water. Water/Fairy with a solid defensive profile and CM Draining Kiss can't be bad at any rate. Interested to see how prevalent this ends up being.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMM??? Could maybe be tried, it's strong and bulky for sure but the Speed tier and defensive typing are both horrible. Possibly too much with Trick Room I guess
Obviously we don't know stat spread or moves just yet, but judging from Duraludon's more physically oriented defensive profile and Archaludon's confirmed Electric coverage, it seems like it could be great on Steel as an anti-Water mon. Unsure of how it will fit on Dragon; I don't think you'd want to drop Hisuian Goodra to run this instead due to Hisuian Goodra's special bulk, so you'd probably use both?
Raging Bolt's viability really depends on its stat spread and movepool, but its new move Thunderclap (essentially Electric-type Sucker Punch) seems very strong. I could see a CM set on this being very deadly if it ends up getting it, almost like a faster specially oriented Kingambit. In any case, this will likely be great for Electric at least as a Fire check and Water resist.
Again, depends on stat spread and movepool, but will be huge for Psychic if it ends up being fast and powerful and has good coverage. Tachyon Cutter seems promising if it has 50 BP (it's a Steel-type special Dragon Darts essentially).
Roll on Indigo Disk
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