After playing around with some things for a while, I have a few noms that I think are reasonable as well as a few others to agree on from other posts.
Agree with --> A+
Dragapult is really versatile currently and is one of the best breakers currently, with specs, hex, and dd sets all being quite large threats while other sets like scarf could still probably see some usefulness. It covers a ton of things offensively so I think it should rise to A+ as a result.
Agree with --> Down somewhere
Buzzwole just kept on losing its reasons to be used as things like mosa, Zygadre, Kyurem-b, and Urshifu were banned, and with everything in the meta that's near the top I don't think it should be in B-. Not sure how far it should drop since there's still potential for Banded sets to do something since the coverage it has is nice, but should drop regardless.
+ stay A
I think both mons are really good overall, and I don't think that either really need a change. Slowking is a good less passive special wall compared to Blissey, and can check and pivot out on a ton of dangerous special mons that are really hard to wall. Alternitavely, Slowbro is less prevalent post Cinderace ban but I think still deserves to stay where it is because it can still check dangerous offensive threats itself such as Garchomp or Excadrill while having the same qualities as Slowking. I think Slowbro dropping is more reasonable than a raise for Slowking personally, but for now I do think both deserve A.
--> B-/C+
The Spectrier ban really hurt this thing, as now it gets threatened by most things ranked above it while not providing a ton against a lot of common picks for teams. Scarf is decent for U-turn and speed control while Bulk Up against the right teams can be threatening, but I don't think it has what it needs rn especially with how good Rillaboom and Kartana are as offensive Grass-types for competition.
--> B/B+
I think Urshifu is quite good currently despite the walls at the top of the meta that can threaten it. CB Surging Strikes and CC even out of rain is a super threatening combo, and U-turn is solid for pivoting and as Slowking gets more popular as a Water + Fighting resist, those U-turn's will hurt a lot. Future Sight is always nice with it for Toxapex, and I've had some success running it with more offensive pressure that can threaten some of its walls like Zeraora and Latios with Knock off mons that bait in similar checks to remove helmet. I think it's better than most things around it ranked and should rise as such.
--> C
Not sure if C is the perfect rank for it but I think it should drop regardless. Without Magearna it doesn't have anything over Nidoking really, since it can't even try to pivot in on that mon and check it while exerting pressure. Nidoking is really good and I think gives little reason to ever use Nidoqueen over it.
Now for a little more out there nomination,
UR --> C/C-
Offensively Starmie is a really threatening pick, as pretty much nothing barring Slowking or Ferrothorn wants to switch in, and if it opts to run Thunderbolt then Slowking can take them but doesn't appreciate the hits. Ferrothorn hard walls all the attacks pretty much, but a lot of mons just drop to it clicking Analytic boosted attacks. It's quite fast compared to some breakers like Garchomp and Kartana and can act as revenge killers for those and an offensive check to things like Heatran, so I think with the niche that it has it should be considered to be ranked somewhere. I'll drop the set I've tried out and some calcs as well with Analytic and not.
Edit: ty to glava222 for pointing out I needed Starmie replays, I didn't save a lot from when I laddered more with it so I got a few games that hopefully shows off some of what it can do, I'll explain each scenario a bit with the repalys.
Agree with --> A+
Dragapult is really versatile currently and is one of the best breakers currently, with specs, hex, and dd sets all being quite large threats while other sets like scarf could still probably see some usefulness. It covers a ton of things offensively so I think it should rise to A+ as a result.
Agree with --> Down somewhere
Buzzwole just kept on losing its reasons to be used as things like mosa, Zygadre, Kyurem-b, and Urshifu were banned, and with everything in the meta that's near the top I don't think it should be in B-. Not sure how far it should drop since there's still potential for Banded sets to do something since the coverage it has is nice, but should drop regardless.
+ stay A
I think both mons are really good overall, and I don't think that either really need a change. Slowking is a good less passive special wall compared to Blissey, and can check and pivot out on a ton of dangerous special mons that are really hard to wall. Alternitavely, Slowbro is less prevalent post Cinderace ban but I think still deserves to stay where it is because it can still check dangerous offensive threats itself such as Garchomp or Excadrill while having the same qualities as Slowking. I think Slowbro dropping is more reasonable than a raise for Slowking personally, but for now I do think both deserve A.
--> B-/C+
The Spectrier ban really hurt this thing, as now it gets threatened by most things ranked above it while not providing a ton against a lot of common picks for teams. Scarf is decent for U-turn and speed control while Bulk Up against the right teams can be threatening, but I don't think it has what it needs rn especially with how good Rillaboom and Kartana are as offensive Grass-types for competition.
--> B/B+
I think Urshifu is quite good currently despite the walls at the top of the meta that can threaten it. CB Surging Strikes and CC even out of rain is a super threatening combo, and U-turn is solid for pivoting and as Slowking gets more popular as a Water + Fighting resist, those U-turn's will hurt a lot. Future Sight is always nice with it for Toxapex, and I've had some success running it with more offensive pressure that can threaten some of its walls like Zeraora and Latios with Knock off mons that bait in similar checks to remove helmet. I think it's better than most things around it ranked and should rise as such.
--> C
Not sure if C is the perfect rank for it but I think it should drop regardless. Without Magearna it doesn't have anything over Nidoking really, since it can't even try to pivot in on that mon and check it while exerting pressure. Nidoking is really good and I think gives little reason to ever use Nidoqueen over it.
Now for a little more out there nomination,
UR --> C/C-
Offensively Starmie is a really threatening pick, as pretty much nothing barring Slowking or Ferrothorn wants to switch in, and if it opts to run Thunderbolt then Slowking can take them but doesn't appreciate the hits. Ferrothorn hard walls all the attacks pretty much, but a lot of mons just drop to it clicking Analytic boosted attacks. It's quite fast compared to some breakers like Garchomp and Kartana and can act as revenge killers for those and an offensive check to things like Heatran, so I think with the niche that it has it should be considered to be ranked somewhere. I'll drop the set I've tried out and some calcs as well with Analytic and not.
Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam
- Recover / Thunderbolt
Ability: Analytic
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam
- Recover / Thunderbolt
Vs.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 212-251 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 274-325 (69.5 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Vs.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 257-304 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 333-394 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO
Vs.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 212-251 (55.3 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 234-276 (61 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 277-328 (72.3 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Vs.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 151-182 (49.6 - 59.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 198-234 (65.1 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Vs.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 156-185 (39.8 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 200-238 (51.1 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Vs.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 203-239 (50.7 - 59.7%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 263-309 (65.7 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Vs. (you're only hitting this on switchin realistically)
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zeraora: 305-360 (96.2 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Vs.
0 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 77-91 (29.5 - 34.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after trapping damage
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran: 299-354 (77.4 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran: 390-460 (101 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Vs.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Mandibuzz: 175-208 (41.3 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Mandibuzz: 192-229 (45.3 - 54.1%) -- 45.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Mandibuzz: 230-270 (54.3 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Mandibuzz: 250-296 (59.1 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 212-251 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 274-325 (69.5 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Vs.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 257-304 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 333-394 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO
Vs.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 212-251 (55.3 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 234-276 (61 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 277-328 (72.3 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Vs.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 151-182 (49.6 - 59.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 198-234 (65.1 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Vs.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 156-185 (39.8 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 200-238 (51.1 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Vs.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 203-239 (50.7 - 59.7%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 263-309 (65.7 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Vs. (you're only hitting this on switchin realistically)
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zeraora: 305-360 (96.2 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Vs.
0 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 77-91 (29.5 - 34.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after trapping damage
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran: 299-354 (77.4 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran: 390-460 (101 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Vs.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Mandibuzz: 175-208 (41.3 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Mandibuzz: 192-229 (45.3 - 54.1%) -- 45.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Mandibuzz: 230-270 (54.3 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Mandibuzz: 250-296 (59.1 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Edit: ty to glava222 for pointing out I needed Starmie replays, I didn't save a lot from when I laddered more with it so I got a few games that hopefully shows off some of what it can do, I'll explain each scenario a bit with the repalys.
[Gen 8] OU replay: Fc04 vs. Adrift00 - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
The opposing team does have an AV Galarian Slowking, but after using Starmie as an offensive pivot into Heatran I was able to click Psyshock for 60 free % forcing it out into Mandibuzz, something that took over 60 from Hydro Pump. I did get a lucky freeze on the Slowking as it came back in and a crit on the landorus, but for specifically Starmie's breaking those didn't matter a whole lot since the Mandibuzz was super weakened and it just needed to get plays right later on, and lando wasn't really taking it on anyway. It picks off the Slowking later on, and offensively threatens out Urshifu to get a final kill later on the Sylveon. (ignore me choking the endgame lmao)
[Gen 8] OU replay: Blessed 9'inch vs. Fc04 - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
The opponent had a Ferrothorn so I thought Starmie wouldn't do a ton here, but it was actually able to be quite clutch overall. After chipping Ferrothorn with Melmetal if was forced in on Starmie and took an Analytic boosted Ice Beam into another to finish it off. Based on the crit damage the crit only mattered with like 2 min roll Ice beams, as with Analytic it does upwards of 40%, and my own Ferro would have prevented Leech Seed recovery in the case I got a min roll the first time so Starmie could just pick more stuff off later. It can just keep offensively pressuring from there, forcing out Keldeo and getting in a good position for kills before the Keldeo missed pump and it was over anyway before it could shine more.
[Gen 8] OU replay: Year1990 vs. Fc04 - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
A great showing for it here, the opposing team is fairly well equipped for other waters like Urshifu with Mandibuzz + Azu + aegi, but as soon as Starmie can abuse Heatran which is one of its best traits imo it can deal a ton to Aegislash which dies to recoil after. It forced out banded Zapdos-G and got another kill on Mandibuzz but couldn't do more bc of a low roll on Zapdos but it still helped the team immensely so Rillaboom could clean.
[Gen 8] OU replay: Fc04 vs. Sleep by the waves - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
On lead Starmie immediately threatens most of the team, forcing out lando and doing a ton to Blissey which I mentioned in the calcs section, and after it clicks teleport the defensive answers really aren't there. Some pivoting around with it and it manages to get 2 kills and could have gotten more every time the Urshifu or Lando came in if the game continued. More offensive based teams like this that rely on special wall Blissey can have a super tough time switching into Starmie.
Overall it just shows to be a strong wallbreaker that when paired with good supporting mons can break quite a few common cores and threaten out slower mons in a good speed tier. I could see this being quite debatable since it can sometimes be underwhelming, but I do think it's deserving of a rank based on its qualities.
The opposing team does have an AV Galarian Slowking, but after using Starmie as an offensive pivot into Heatran I was able to click Psyshock for 60 free % forcing it out into Mandibuzz, something that took over 60 from Hydro Pump. I did get a lucky freeze on the Slowking as it came back in and a crit on the landorus, but for specifically Starmie's breaking those didn't matter a whole lot since the Mandibuzz was super weakened and it just needed to get plays right later on, and lando wasn't really taking it on anyway. It picks off the Slowking later on, and offensively threatens out Urshifu to get a final kill later on the Sylveon. (ignore me choking the endgame lmao)
[Gen 8] OU replay: Blessed 9'inch vs. Fc04 - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
The opponent had a Ferrothorn so I thought Starmie wouldn't do a ton here, but it was actually able to be quite clutch overall. After chipping Ferrothorn with Melmetal if was forced in on Starmie and took an Analytic boosted Ice Beam into another to finish it off. Based on the crit damage the crit only mattered with like 2 min roll Ice beams, as with Analytic it does upwards of 40%, and my own Ferro would have prevented Leech Seed recovery in the case I got a min roll the first time so Starmie could just pick more stuff off later. It can just keep offensively pressuring from there, forcing out Keldeo and getting in a good position for kills before the Keldeo missed pump and it was over anyway before it could shine more.
[Gen 8] OU replay: Year1990 vs. Fc04 - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
A great showing for it here, the opposing team is fairly well equipped for other waters like Urshifu with Mandibuzz + Azu + aegi, but as soon as Starmie can abuse Heatran which is one of its best traits imo it can deal a ton to Aegislash which dies to recoil after. It forced out banded Zapdos-G and got another kill on Mandibuzz but couldn't do more bc of a low roll on Zapdos but it still helped the team immensely so Rillaboom could clean.
[Gen 8] OU replay: Fc04 vs. Sleep by the waves - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
On lead Starmie immediately threatens most of the team, forcing out lando and doing a ton to Blissey which I mentioned in the calcs section, and after it clicks teleport the defensive answers really aren't there. Some pivoting around with it and it manages to get 2 kills and could have gotten more every time the Urshifu or Lando came in if the game continued. More offensive based teams like this that rely on special wall Blissey can have a super tough time switching into Starmie.
Overall it just shows to be a strong wallbreaker that when paired with good supporting mons can break quite a few common cores and threaten out slower mons in a good speed tier. I could see this being quite debatable since it can sometimes be underwhelming, but I do think it's deserving of a rank based on its qualities.
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