Metagame [SPOILERS] Scarlet & Violet OU Discussion [BAN LIST POST 626]

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Apparently Slowking and Slowking-Galar are the only Pokemon that can get Chilly Reception, though how they acquire this move is unknown.

Chilly Reception - The user tells a chillingly bad joke before switching places with a party Pokémon in waiting. This summons a snowstorm lasting five turns.

I think they have potential to form a nice bulky offense core with Baxcalibur. In particular, Slowking-G can pivot into Fighting/Fairy attacks aimed at Baxcalibur and then use Chilly Reception to pivot out and set up Snowstorm. With Snowstorm boosting Baxcalibur's defense, it'll be even harder for things to revenge kill it.

Slowking-G @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Leftovers
- Sludge Bomb
- Future Sight
- Slack Off
- Chilly Reception

Baxcalibur @ Life Orb / Leftovers
- Dragon Dance
- Icicle Crash
- Outrage / Dragon Claw
- Earthquake

Both of Baxcalibur's abilities could be viable with this core. Thermal Exchange for burn immunity or Ice Body with Leftovers for extra longevity.
 
I don't know whether this is the right place to talk about this or not, but is it just me or does it seem like 90% the future and ancient paradox pokemon are gonna be banned? Between proto and quark there is just too much going on. You can't really pin the issue on either electric terrain or sun either because they don't have any notable abusers in the tier. Most of the paradoxes are just flat out broken on top of the boosts that they recieve in electric terrain and sun respectively.
 
Apparently Slowking and Slowking-Galar are the only Pokemon that can get Chilly Reception, though how they acquire this move is unknown.

Chilly Reception - The user tells a chillingly bad joke before switching places with a party Pokémon in waiting. This summons a snowstorm lasting five turns.
- Slowking now learns Future Sight, Chilly Reception via Move Tutor
- Galarian Slowking now learns Future Sight, Chilly Reception, Toxic via Move Tutor
this was in the patch notes
 
What pokemon benefit the most from snow? I can only think of Avalugg and maybe Baxcalibur so it can take fire moves better for the boost.
 

igiveuponaname

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What pokemon benefit the most from snow? I can only think of Avalugg and maybe Baxcalibur so it can take fire moves better for the boost.
Any Mon with Slush Rush will appreciate the boost to their defenses + the doubled speed. Though it depends on how good these Mons would be in the OU meta as a whole.
 
What pokemon benefit the most from snow? I can only think of Avalugg and maybe Baxcalibur so it can take fire moves better for the boost.
Probably not exactly what you mean, but most fragile sweepers benefit from Aurora Veil not coming with extra passive damage.

In general I think whatever ice types end up being used will quite appreciate it. Even something fragile like normal!Weavile will probably like being able to eat a single weaker bullet punch.
 
TRANSFER MOVES HAVE BEEN DECONFIRMED, THERE IS NO MORE GOOD KNOCK OR DEFOG OR SCALD DISTRIBUTION
No they haven't. Centro is a hack (he is the ONLY person to claim this when he isn't even a leaker). Stop buying his bs pls.

On a related note, spikes has huge distribution now which is interesting in a no ferro meta. If ferro returns in the future with DLC I wonder how things will change. Oh and Landorus(both forms) FINALLY get Taunt. So that will reallu shake up the Lando v Lando lead off match ups. Honestly an underspoken but huge buff.

Also Rayquaza now gets U-Turn and Stealth Rock. Lol.
 
What pokemon benefit the most from snow? I can only think of Avalugg and maybe Baxcalibur so it can take fire moves better for the boost.
Most offensive Ice-types benefit from it. Their lack of bulk is usually their main issue, but Snowstorm would mitigate this and allow them to live hits they otherwise wouldn't giving them more setup opportunities and the more leeway in what they can switch into / survive during a sweep. Using weavile as an example...

0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 211-249 (75 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 141-166 (50.1 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 224-266 (79.7 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 152-180 (54 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

There's a massive difference in damage, letting Weavile get crucial additional damage, escape a revenge killing attempt, or sweep more easily.

Of course, this all depends on how much Hail does boost defenses. I think it will only boost defenses by 1.3 so the difference in damage won't be as big of a deal, but it'll still be a nice buff nonetheless.

Kingambit looks cool and all, but I think Vanilla Bisharp might also be a threat to watch out for now. One of my biggest issues with it previously was that it couldn't really be used as a Steel-type due to how terrible its bulk was. With Eviolite, this is no longer a problem and lets it actually switch into stuff like Dragapult more reliably. Its extra Speed will also help distinguish it from Kingambit.


252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 109-129 (40.2 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 177-208 (65.3 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 72-86 (26.5 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 118-139 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO
 
I put together a quick little collection of hazard setters and removers from the datamine
Jigglypuff, Diglett, Diglett-Alola, Meowth-Galar, Primeape, Growlithe-Hisui, Chansey, Mew, Wooper, Wooper-Paldea, Pineco, Dunsparce, Phanpy, Larvitar, Numel, Torkoal, Barboach, Groudon, Rayquaza, Shellos, Bronzor, Bonsly, Gible, Hippopotas, Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf, Dialga, Heatran, Arceus, Sandile, Pawniard, Hydreigon, Landorus, Carbink, Avalugg-Hisui, Diancie, Rockruff, Mudbray, Sandygast, Drednaw, Rolycoly, Silicobra, Stonjourner, Cufant, Kleavor, Dudunsparce, Orthworm, Bombirdier, Klawf, Nacli, Glimmet, Great Tusk, Sandy Shocks, Scream Tail, Iron Treads, Iron Thorns, Ting-Lu, and Tinkatink (and their evolutions)
Shellder, Mew, Wooper, Wooper-Paldea, Pineco, Qwilfish, Qwilfish-Hisui, Heracross, Delibird, Cacnea, Whiscash, Snorunt, Groudon, Vespiquen, Gastrodon, Bonsly, Garchomp, Chespin, Froakie, Carbink, Klefki, Diancie, Magearna, Rolycoly, Pincurchin, Meowscarada, Tarountula, Orthworm, Glimmet, Bramblin, Sandy Shocks, Iron Thorns, Ting-Lu, and Toedscool (and their evolutions)
Venonat, Venomoth, Muk, Shellder, Cloyster, Haunter, Gengar, Mew, Wooper-P, Clodsire, Quagsire, Slowking-G, Pineco, Forretress, Qwilfish, Qwilfish-H, Overqwil, Sneasel-H, Sneaseler, Gulpin, Swalot, Cacnea, Cacturne, Vespiquen, Stunky, Skuntank, Froakie, Frogadier, Greninja, Skrelp, Dragalge, Mareanie, Toxapex, Salandit, Salazzle, Toxtricity, Pincurchin, Eternatus, Meowscarada, Tarountula, Spidops, Varoom, Revaroom, Glimmet, Glimmora, Iron Moth, Toedscool, and Toedscruel
Surskit, Masquerain, Kricketune, Tarountula, Spidops
Pineco, Delibird, Donphan, Torkoal, Cryogonal, Bergmite, Bounsweet, Komala, Rolycoly, Regieleki, Quaxly, Tatsugiri, Cyclizar, Bramblin, Great Tusk, Iron Treads, and Toedscool (as well as the evolutions of the pokemon listed)
Scyther, Swablu, Drifloon, Giratina, Lilligant-Hisui, Rufflet, Fletchling, Hawlucha, Noibat, Rowlet, Oricorio, Fomantis, Rookidee, and Frosmoth (and their evolutions)
 
Kingambit looks cool and all, but I think Vanilla Bisharp might also be a threat to watch out for now. One of my biggest issues with it previously was that it couldn't really be used as a Steel-type due to how terrible its bulk was. With Eviolite, this is no longer a problem and lets it actually switch into stuff like Dragapult more reliably. Its extra Speed will also help distinguish it from Kingambit.
couldn't kingambit do similar things while still holding an item? its bulk is noticeably higher than bisharp's. not sure what the calcs would look like exactly but open item slot + more atk + potential power boost from its signature ability makes it seem like it'll be generally better than eviolite bisharp even if the bulk is a bit worse.
 
No they haven't. Centro is a hack (he is the ONLY person to claim this when he isn't even a leaker). Stop buying his bs pls.

On a related note, spikes has huge distribution now which is interesting in a no ferro meta. If ferro returns in the future with DLC I wonder how things will change. Oh and Landorus(both forms) FINALLY get Taunt. So that will reallu shake up the Lando v Lando lead off match ups. Honestly an underspoken but huge buff.

Also Rayquaza now gets U-Turn and Stealth Rock. Lol.
My bad. Didn’t realize.
 
couldn't kingambit do similar things while still holding an item? its bulk is noticeably higher than bisharp's. not sure what the calcs would look like exactly but open item slot + more atk + potential power boost from its signature ability makes it seem like it'll be generally better than eviolite bisharp even if the bulk is a bit worse.
Yeah, I think Kingambit will be the better Pokemon for sure, but vanilla Bisharp is already somewhat OU viable so I think it'll still have a niche due to its higher speed, which some teams will value more over the item slot. If Kingambit gets banned (which I doubt) vanilla Bisharp will still be a good option in the tier with the Eviolite buff.
 
I put together a quick little collection of hazard setters and removers from the datamine
Jigglypuff, Diglett, Diglett-Alola, Meowth-Galar, Primeape, Growlithe-Hisui, Chansey, Mew, Wooper, Wooper-Paldea, Pineco, Dunsparce, Phanpy, Larvitar, Numel, Torkoal, Barboach, Groudon, Rayquaza, Shellos, Bronzor, Bonsly, Gible, Hippopotas, Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf, Dialga, Heatran, Arceus, Sandile, Pawniard, Hydreigon, Landorus, Carbink, Avalugg-Hisui, Diancie, Rockruff, Mudbray, Sandygast, Drednaw, Rolycoly, Silicobra, Stonjourner, Cufant, Kleavor, Dudunsparce, Orthworm, Bombirdier, Klawf, Nacli, Glimmet, Great Tusk, Sandy Shocks, Scream Tail, Iron Treads, Iron Thorns, Ting-Lu, and Tinkatink (and their evolutions)
Shellder, Mew, Wooper, Wooper-Paldea, Pineco, Qwilfish, Qwilfish-Hisui, Heracross, Delibird, Cacnea, Whiscash, Snorunt, Groudon, Vespiquen, Gastrodon, Bonsly, Garchomp, Chespin, Froakie, Carbink, Klefki, Diancie, Magearna, Rolycoly, Pincurchin, Meowscarada, Tarountula, Orthworm, Glimmet, Bramblin, Sandy Shocks, Iron Thorns, Ting-Lu, and Toedscool (and their evolutions)
Venonat, Venomoth, Muk, Shellder, Cloyster, Haunter, Gengar, Mew, Wooper-P, Clodsire, Quagsire, Slowking-G, Pineco, Forretress, Qwilfish, Qwilfish-H, Overqwil, Sneasel-H, Sneaseler, Gulpin, Swalot, Cacnea, Cacturne, Vespiquen, Stunky, Skuntank, Froakie, Frogadier, Greninja, Skrelp, Dragalge, Mareanie, Toxapex, Salandit, Salazzle, Toxtricity, Pincurchin, Eternatus, Meowscarada, Tarountula, Spidops, Varoom, Revaroom, Glimmet, Glimmora, Iron Moth, Toedscool, and Toedscruel
Surskit, Masquerain, Kricketune, Tarountula, Spidops
Pineco, Delibird, Donphan, Torkoal, Cryogonal, Bergmite, Bounsweet, Komala, Rolycoly, Regieleki, Quaxly, Tatsugiri, Cyclizar, Bramblin, Great Tusk, Iron Treads, and Toedscool (as well as the evolutions of the pokemon listed)
Scyther, Swablu, Drifloon, Giratina, Lilligant-Hisui, Rufflet, Fletchling, Hawlucha, Noibat, Rowlet, Oricorio, Fomantis, Rookidee, and Frosmoth (and their evolutions)
Although I can't confirm this, it's likely that Glimmora's signature move, Mortal Spin, is a rapid spin clone that poisons instead of boosting speed. Their in-game descriptions are identical. ("The user performs a spin attack that can also eliminate the effects of such moves as Bind, Wrap, and Leech Seed. This also boosts the user’s Speed stat." vs. "The user performs a spin attack that can also eliminate the effects of such moves as Bind, Wrap, and Leech Seed. This also poisons opposing Pokémon.")
 
Kingambit looks cool and all, but I think Vanilla Bisharp might also be a threat to watch out for now. One of my biggest issues with it previously was that it couldn't really be used as a Steel-type due to how terrible its bulk was. With Eviolite, this is no longer a problem and lets it actually switch into stuff like Dragapult more reliably. Its extra Speed will also help distinguish it from Kingambit.
The issue is Evo Sharp has no lefties and is only barely bulkier than Kingambit. You couls get more out of lefties King instead who is also stronger. (And honestly speed difference is negligible since it rarely helped Bisharp anyways).

My bad. Didn’t realize.
Lemme apologize too honestly. I didn't mean to be mean or sound harsh (if I came across as such).

I put together a quick little collection of hazard setters and removers from the datamine
Jigglypuff, Diglett, Diglett-Alola, Meowth-Galar, Primeape, Growlithe-Hisui, Chansey, Mew, Wooper, Wooper-Paldea, Pineco, Dunsparce, Phanpy, Larvitar, Numel, Torkoal, Barboach, Groudon, Rayquaza, Shellos, Bronzor, Bonsly, Gible, Hippopotas, Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf, Dialga, Heatran, Arceus, Sandile, Pawniard, Hydreigon, Landorus, Carbink, Avalugg-Hisui, Diancie, Rockruff, Mudbray, Sandygast, Drednaw, Rolycoly, Silicobra, Stonjourner, Cufant, Kleavor, Dudunsparce, Orthworm, Bombirdier, Klawf, Nacli, Glimmet, Great Tusk, Sandy Shocks, Scream Tail, Iron Treads, Iron Thorns, Ting-Lu, and Tinkatink (and their evolutions)
Shellder, Mew, Wooper, Wooper-Paldea, Pineco, Qwilfish, Qwilfish-Hisui, Heracross, Delibird, Cacnea, Whiscash, Snorunt, Groudon, Vespiquen, Gastrodon, Bonsly, Garchomp, Chespin, Froakie, Carbink, Klefki, Diancie, Magearna, Rolycoly, Pincurchin, Meowscarada, Tarountula, Orthworm, Glimmet, Bramblin, Sandy Shocks, Iron Thorns, Ting-Lu, and Toedscool (and their evolutions)
Venonat, Venomoth, Muk, Shellder, Cloyster, Haunter, Gengar, Mew, Wooper-P, Clodsire, Quagsire, Slowking-G, Pineco, Forretress, Qwilfish, Qwilfish-H, Overqwil, Sneasel-H, Sneaseler, Gulpin, Swalot, Cacnea, Cacturne, Vespiquen, Stunky, Skuntank, Froakie, Frogadier, Greninja, Skrelp, Dragalge, Mareanie, Toxapex, Salandit, Salazzle, Toxtricity, Pincurchin, Eternatus, Meowscarada, Tarountula, Spidops, Varoom, Revaroom, Glimmet, Glimmora, Iron Moth, Toedscool, and Toedscruel
Surskit, Masquerain, Kricketune, Tarountula, Spidops
Pineco, Delibird, Donphan, Torkoal, Cryogonal, Bergmite, Bounsweet, Komala, Rolycoly, Regieleki, Quaxly, Tatsugiri, Cyclizar, Bramblin, Great Tusk, Iron Treads, and Toedscool (as well as the evolutions of the pokemon listed)
Scyther, Swablu, Drifloon, Giratina, Lilligant-Hisui, Rufflet, Fletchling, Hawlucha, Noibat, Rowlet, Oricorio, Fomantis, Rookidee, and Frosmoth (and their evolutions)
Rayquaza with rocks is still funny to me. It gaining Uturn is also gonna add another layer of depth to an already versatile pokemon. Groudon gaining spikes is also kind of massive. Hoenn stay winning.

The sheer boost in spikes availability is insane. The water/grounds all getting them is wild, but also Garchomp. I wonder which set will be more common. Stealth rock vs spikes vs hazard stack (rocks+spikes). Interesting.

The gengar line gaining tspikes is cool too. SlowkingG also would be a strong user i think. Oh and Hydreigon now has stealth rock too.
 

shadowpea

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chi-yu @ timbs
ability: beads of ruin
252spa/252spe/timid
-np
-fire blast
-dark pulse
-taunt/wisp/sub/flame charge/ruination

beads of ruin lowers the sdef of the mon in front of it by existing. it aint as broken as chien-pao since there is no busted speed tier but its got a total shitload of power, incredible stabs. pex gets canceled by psychic and...who am i kidding barely nothing can wall this thing (except ofc ttar. ttar is always at its best when checking something broken.)

+2 252 SpA Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. -1 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 297-349 (97.6 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. -1 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 354-417 (50.3 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ting-Lu: 346-408 (67.3 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. -1 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Dodonzo: 286-337 (56.7 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Clodsire: 201-237 (43.3 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (LEGENDARY)

(note that clod dont actually have recover, so at best it can take a single hit and force it out once)

last slot is actually pretty flexible. taunt because heehoo np taunt breaker (stall players are crying in a corner rn), willo for funny burns crippling ttar and also help its goldfish-befitting physical bulk, flame charge or sub for speeds/subs, ruination for slicing off half of ttar's hp, flamethrower for accuracy. this thing's dual stabs are that insane, and its ability being the way it is means that even unaware walls suffer from the sdef drop. it doesn't have chien-po's blazing speed or priority but it has a heavy heavy dose of raw pure power. damn, you beautiful little fish.

actually with "only" 100 spe and low-meh bulk you might be better off running specs and breaking everything not named chansey anyway. or scarf and still be an effective revenge killer although the rocks weakness is lame.

a bit disappointed that chi-yu's statline is just a nerfed version of chien-pao's. cant even leverage its special bulk the way it wouldve been in earlier gens to tank stray scalds because scald dont exist anymore, shame. 135 spa is still 135 spa tho.

(also the 4 chinese ruin mons are getting nerfed pre-release lmao, chien-po and chi-yu are still crackhead)

rapid fire thoughts:
chien-po is obviously one of the most broken things introduced and we all know it and we said it.

baxcalibur is also sitting there very pretty at 145 atk, beefy bulk, and ddance as many have pointed out.

iron bundle actually looks pretty neat despite the tiny movepool because it gets freeze-dry which might honestly be all it needs. water-ice stabs while hitting opposing fat waters along with flipturn sounds really sweet with blazing speed and good firepower. it will need the timbs though.

iron valiant is flames. a speedy mixed attacker, fighting/fairy, firepower on both sides, coverage, swords dance, good utility with stuff like taunt trick hypnosis? i love it. powerful mixed attackers have become a kind of rarity and getting valiant is really sweet for me. except that booster energy will probably boost its speed....would be a shame if we have to ban it tbh. and of course, boosting attack or spa gives you obscene power. that could be a bit much, too.

hydreigon gets stealth rock lmao what the fuck...actually now that i mention it can be one of the things that might be able to switch into chi-yu? that 120 sdef will certainly help on chi-yu's side though, and against the fish's raw power i wouldn't be too surprised if hydra has to run se coverage to beat a +2 chi-yu 1v1 (too lazy to calc rn)

magearna gets spikes lmfaoooo actually way too many mons get hazards rn gf is giving them out like free candy.

spectrier gets coverage!!!? specifically draining kiss is huge for it, defensive hydrei no longer works for us. with the 4 ruins and other darks around you can bet that spec will run it. psychic exist i suppose.

urshifus gets swords dance [instantly ragequit]

ursaluna looks big chunky strong flame orb guts attacker amazing stabs massive facades good coverage good utility extra fat just a total package of a mon

roaring moon another dd sweeper, instantly canned by fairies as always, but strong decently bulky. dark is not the absolute best offensive typing rn tho. HOWEVER, the booster boosts its attack which is fucking crazy, might get banned.

iron treads=exadrill replacement? booster will probably get atk/def (or speed if it chooses that route). no swords dance keeps it balanced fortunately, speed boosting booster+swords dance is crazy. as it is it can easily still go offensive with atk booster+rapid spin

flutter mane: ghosts do be broken. fairy do be broken. free speed boost from the booster is obviously amazing and it is already sitting there with 135/135 offensive stats. if this works the way i think and it inherits nasty plot from base misdreavus...ban it lol what else do i even need to say. if not, cm may (probably will) still make it banworthy. that typing is just too damn good.

slither wing/iron moth: first, oh my god i cannot believe they did volcarona like that. like thank you for giving it not one but two paradox forms but i will say i still like the original far better. moving on...slither wing is hella powerful. 135 atk with free +1 from booster makes it brutally strong. add in good bulk, morning sun, big uturn, very big fimpression, and blitz/wcharge/dwb as coverage and you have a hell of an attacker. iron moth is just normal volc but arguably better in some ways like better stats and arguably more useful poison typing. but whats huge is that IT GETS DISCHARGE thats right. and flash cannon and dazzling gleam and uhh ngl discharge was just the first one that caught my eye, can you imagine that, a volc with electric coverage! but at the end of the day it still cant break heatran lol but wait HEATRAN DOESNT EXIST. both og volc and iron moth are vibing rn.

iron jugulis unfortunately want timbs..but what if, hear me out, np speed booster timbless? BUT this thing actually does...not get nasty plot.......... ... .... .......(im sorry i am literally just typing as thoughts come to my head rn) (none of this will be edited before i post this btw) well anyway dark/flying is pretty sweet and its coverage is pretty scary...i guess...it doesnt even have roost idrk how good this will be tbh. time to double check hydra's learnset ig:...so hydra retains np, which means jugulis might get it. it appears roost is lost though. so maybe np speed booster timbless after all? it can put that coverage to good use ig.

thorns...i see a ddance sweeper with booster granting it +1 attack for existing...hm. i ngl am quite excited to see how this performs this generation, rock-electric is so completely unique and there isnt lando to worry about yet. it wants fire punch for treads pretty bad but also ice punch for...ting-lu, i guess? tread's existance throw's a wrench in the conventional "just run ice punch to beat grounds" plan.

wo-chien uhh dark/grass is quite an unfortunate typing for a defensive mon. who are you trying to answer here? the ability might save it though.

i really want to like annihilape. a ghost fighting with good stats but definately not broken sounds so neat to me. not to mention fighting type defiant to really threaten the ruin mons. and also...uhh...GHOST FIGHTING?? possibly the best stab combo one could ask for (ground/fairy and fire/fairy aside unfortunately)? but the thing is this thing DOES NOT GET POLTERGEIST. in fact its best stab is actually shadow claw which is...obviously lame. aghhh fuck you game freak id better see poltergeist on annihilape in a couple of dlcs.

although i shouldnt say that, gf made not one but 3(!) powerful ice-type attackers, and two of them are extra speedy too! the curse is finally broken hopefully? i still can't wrap my head around the meteoric rise of ice-types in ss between kyurem, weavile, tales and zolt...and now this...

enamorus forms...the incarnate form i think is decent, itll probably be just special with superpower on the side to abuse contrary and punish the 4 ruins. therian is strong and chunky but slow and rocks weak so probably wants timbs which means no lefties or any form of healing. incarnate looks better at a glance, its strong, but its competing with valiant. who knows which one is better, enamorus's contrary or valiant's booster item fighting stab and more colorful movepool?

ill miss ss. i didnt play it as much as i played sm (even though i started mons after sm ended lol), but it was really a fun generation with some really shocking metagame shifts. at the start of ss, who couldve guessed that ice-types, the soon-to-be-rebanned kyurem-b aside, would come to dominate ou? who couldve guessed weavile becoming s- tier, or hail teams taking the tier by storm, or kyurem-base getting banned? or that heavy-duty boots would breathe life into mons that were forgotten before, but not exactly the ones that we expect? timbs turned zeraora from a low-tier uu mon to a top tier ou threat. im really looking forward to all the metagame shifts and all the discoveries sv would bring.

well anyways, ou is fun, but ive always liked oms bett--

[mods deletes the rest of my post and terminates me as i start talking about bh and aaa]

(post got rambly as it went on, cant blame ya if you cant follow my thoughts, ig sv really dragged me from hibernation huh. until next time.)

edit:

i lied. there is an edit, but its the calc i promised to not do earlier

+2 252 SpA Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. -1 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 302-356 (92.9 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hydreigon: 213-252 (54.8 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Hydreigon Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chi-Yu: 164-194 (65.3 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

the fuck is this

(no i will not edit it back to its proper place)

also:

Iron Hands is being glossed over a lot but it looks like it has serious OU staple potential. Huge Melmetal-esque bulk and power, amazing offensive typing, stab drain punch for longevity, and volt switch for pivoting. Amazing offensive movepool too.
^this tbh

and what would i do if i dont mention cyclizar and its stupidly stupid shed tail regen schenanigans. ho teams got the offensive pivot of all time, scarfed variants guarenteed to bring in any pokemon of your choice for free. and if they dont attack you, guess what, the crackhead sweeper in front of you just got a free sub! synergizes really nicely with pretty much all the broken hitters and boosters we're getting.

ciao

edit edit: apparently the paradoxes are considered seperate mons as the originals. if thats the case, then they dont share movepools, most notably flutter mane and jugulis not getting nasty plot. the former is probably still broken tho, or at least very very good.
 
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Yea I think I'm only going to play nat dex in gen 9.

EDIT: Does anyone think that Skeledirge will be useful as an unaware wall? I'm not sure if it has recovery or not because part 2 of the moveset list got taken down (ironwater). Stall will probably be relying on wish this gen tho.
 
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Ah the defensive dynamax argument.
To be fair, dynamaxing changed all moves to have offensive side effects and all status moves to defense clones, and only lasted 3 turns. Terastalization lasts indefinitely and lets defensive Pokémon keeps whatever moves they have like Recover. It’s not 1-to-1 comparable.

…I will agree that I feel it doesn’t particularly matter when comparing to the massive offensive buffs it can provide versus “your Avalugg is a steel type now”, but I figured it was worth mentioning.
 
EDIT: Does anyone think that Skeledirge will be useful as an unaware wall? I'm not sure if it has recovery or not because part 2 of the moveset list got taken down (ironwater). Stall will probably be relying on wish this gen tho.
yeah, it gets slack off by breeding. probably gonna end up as a niche pick, it has huge bulk and some really nice resists but also plenty of weaknesses that would make walling really hard.
 
I kinda want to start this train of thought early, before the huge "ban terastal" wave comes up but what do people think about a mod, similar to sleep clause, that shows tera types on type preview regardless of if that's how it works on console.

Smogon generally doesn't like mods because we are supposed to be simply simulating the actual game and not making up our own rules. But, we do have a few mods all aimed at making the game more competitive. We have an HP percentages mod and timer mod to allow users to run damage calcs during battle that would be difficult to do in-game. We implement a game log, a PP counter, and a moveset counter to make keeping track of vital game state information easy. We we have sleep clause that prevents more than one pokemon from being put to sleep at a time. All these mods are justified by the fact that they are more or less feasible to arrange on cart. Most tracking mods can be implemented with a pen and paper, or just agreeing to share information beforehand ("that u-turn on my landorus-t did 9% damage"), and so on.

Showing tera types on team preview is actually a lot more faithful to the cartridge than something like sleep clause, which is impossible to do on cart (consider using spore knowing that the opposing mon will wake up this turn, only for them to switch and have that spore blocked by sleep clause). A tera mod is players simply agreeing to exchange team sheets before a match starts.

I think a lot of the stuff people are worried about when it comes to terastalization will become a lot more manageable if people know which tera types you have ahead of time. For example, if know the opposing Avalugg is tera steel type, I know it probably needs to terastalize to do its job and I can play the game accordingly. Or if I know the opposing Meowscarada is tera grass, I know it is a potential breaker on the opponent's team and I can make sure my grass resists stay in tact. From there, if, say, tera ghost dragapult is broken and that's the real issue, we can just ban that.

Will this fix terastalization? Does terastalization even need fixing? It's too soon to tell. I just thought about maybe pitching alternatives to auto-banning week 1 like so many people have been talking about because I think it can be really fun and add a new layer to teambuilding and strategy. Call me "uncompetitive" but I wanna play with the new central gimmick this time around and I sense I'm not alone.

I also think terastalization may not even be the most pressing balance issue day 1, given how many of the new pokemon are strong based on stats and movepools alone, and how little traditional defensive tools we typically have to mitigate this (no scald!?!)

I don't know whether this is the right place to talk about this or not, but is it just me or does it seem like 90% the future and ancient paradox pokemon are gonna be banned? Between proto and quark there is just too much going on. You can't really pin the issue on either electric terrain or sun either because they don't have any notable abusers in the tier. Most of the paradoxes are just flat out broken on top of the boosts that they recieve in electric terrain and sun respectively.
I sorta hope at least one or two stay OU because they seem really fun but, yeah, I expect most if not all to be Ubers day 1. These are sun and E-terrain pokemon with insane stats, insane movepools, and the ability to strategically choose what stat to boost in sun or E-terrain. That's almost comical in terms of how broken it is
 
I don't know whether this is the right place to talk about this or not, but is it just me or does it seem like 90% the future and ancient paradox pokemon are gonna be banned? Between proto and quark there is just too much going on. You can't really pin the issue on either electric terrain or sun either because they don't have any notable abusers in the tier. Most of the paradoxes are just flat out broken on top of the boosts that they recieve in electric terrain and sun respectively.
Since we only have Torkoal for sun atm (good mon btw but sun specific) and Pincurchin for eterrain (mediocre in most respects), i don't necessarily think so. A few may be standout broken like Iron Valiant and Flutter Mane maybe, but a lot of them just look good. Like Great Tusk, Sandy Shocks, Slither Wings, Iron Treads, Iron Hands, Iron Thorns, they just look like good pokemon. It'll be nice to have some of them around to build with. The two ParaDonphans are great utility machines and Iron Hands looks like a very good Melmetal-esque mon with similar stats except also having Drain Punch and Volt Switch.
 
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