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Smogon University PO Statistics — May 2011
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
- Status
How is Lucario so low? I find that a combination of Close Combat + Extremespeed either kills or severely cripples 12 out of the top 15 (excluding Reuniclus, Gengar, and of course Gliscor). He can also come in easily on Tyranitar or Ferrothorn (just avoid Fire Blast), the top 2 Pokemon in the game and OHKO them with ease. Not to mention that Extremespeed has amazing utility and almost always does over half on a neutral hit. It also lacks the drawbacks that Scizor's BP presents. In contrast to a late-game sweeper like he used to be, I find that he is much better as a mid-game hard hitter.
In my opinion, it should really outdo Infernape, who fails me almost every time I use it. Fire + Fighting STAB and 108 base speed just isn't what it used to be. The other Fighting OUs (Terrakion, Conkeldurr, Machamp, Toxicroak, and Breloom) have completely different playstyles.
In my opinion, it should really outdo Infernape, who fails me almost every time I use it. Fire + Fighting STAB and 108 base speed just isn't what it used to be. The other Fighting OUs (Terrakion, Conkeldurr, Machamp, Toxicroak, and Breloom) have completely different playstyles.
So, is 3.41% the UU/Below UU cutoff? If so, Aerodactyl edges into UU where Sub-UU gets to deal with QuiverPass.
Looks like Espeon might rise and Tornadus might fall. In the recent month, I abandoned Tornadus, so it's my fault that Tornadus will be UU.
I can't really see the case for Thundurus, whose ranking has gone DOWN in the last month, to be considered for Ubers.
Two, I've discussed it on PO and Chandelure is the new Electivire. Swampert is more like the new Ninjask or something, but people need to start calling Chandelure the new Electivire and let Swampert take that role once DW Litwick comes out.
Gyarados #22 surprises me, I would have expected it to be much lower.
ALSO: ELECTIVIRE FALLS FURTHER.
Looks like Espeon might rise and Tornadus might fall. In the recent month, I abandoned Tornadus, so it's my fault that Tornadus will be UU.
I can't really see the case for Thundurus, whose ranking has gone DOWN in the last month, to be considered for Ubers.
Two, I've discussed it on PO and Chandelure is the new Electivire. Swampert is more like the new Ninjask or something, but people need to start calling Chandelure the new Electivire and let Swampert take that role once DW Litwick comes out.
Gyarados #22 surprises me, I would have expected it to be much lower.
ALSO: ELECTIVIRE FALLS FURTHER.
The moment I saw Espeon in the top 53, I felt like a father being proud of his newly achieved children. I knew you could do it someday, Espeon! (teach that old man Alakazam a lesson!)
In other news, Latias is on the borderline, and Tornadus in UU! Without any rain support, Tornadus is going to have a hard time getting out of there. For Haxorus...yeah, it has its uses, and being a deceptively good cleaner / Wallbreaker is just a few of them. I'm not really surprised at the fact that Whimsicott and Darminitan are facing demotion, though.
Disclaimer: Swampert DOES have its uses in OU, sand despite it not being as viable as it was last generation, it holds it place with the ability to combat Thundurus, Tyranitar, and unmentioned others. I see it becoming more common on Drizzle-based teams as well. I would use Quagsire of Gastrodon in place of it anytime, though.
In other news, Latias is on the borderline, and Tornadus in UU! Without any rain support, Tornadus is going to have a hard time getting out of there. For Haxorus...yeah, it has its uses, and being a deceptively good cleaner / Wallbreaker is just a few of them. I'm not really surprised at the fact that Whimsicott and Darminitan are facing demotion, though.
Disclaimer: Swampert DOES have its uses in OU, sand despite it not being as viable as it was last generation, it holds it place with the ability to combat Thundurus, Tyranitar, and unmentioned others. I see it becoming more common on Drizzle-based teams as well. I would use Quagsire of Gastrodon in place of it anytime, though.
Can people stop calling Chandelure the new Evire? >.>
Chandy can at least kill 4 out of the top 5 with ease.
Tyranitar gets 2HKO'd by HP Fighting, so, although Chandy can't switch in safely, no one ever hesitates to bring in T-tar, so it pretty much gives Chandelure a free kill most of the time.
Ferrothorn is a no-brainer.
You skip Garchomp :(
Scizor gets murdered as CB Bullet Punch is only dealing 30% max.
Gliscor is almost always OHKO'd by Fire Blast, so even a tiny bit of damage, and Gliscor is guaranteed to die.
AND STOP USING IT WITH A DAMN SCARF.
Give it this set:
-Modest
Sub
Fire Blast
Shadow Ball
HP Fighting
EVs are straightforward T_T
lrn2LUREdatTtarinandpwnhisarse
ChandeLURE, lures in his prey and rapes them <.<
Chandy can at least kill 4 out of the top 5 with ease.
Tyranitar gets 2HKO'd by HP Fighting, so, although Chandy can't switch in safely, no one ever hesitates to bring in T-tar, so it pretty much gives Chandelure a free kill most of the time.
Ferrothorn is a no-brainer.
You skip Garchomp :(
Scizor gets murdered as CB Bullet Punch is only dealing 30% max.
Gliscor is almost always OHKO'd by Fire Blast, so even a tiny bit of damage, and Gliscor is guaranteed to die.
AND STOP USING IT WITH A DAMN SCARF.
Give it this set:
-Modest
Sub
Fire Blast
Shadow Ball
HP Fighting
EVs are straightforward T_T
lrn2LUREdatTtarinandpwnhisarse
ChandeLURE, lures in his prey and rapes them <.<
| 26 | Hydreigon | 34009 | 6.1980 |
| 27 | Haxorus | 33256 | 6.0608 |
| 28 | Salamence | 32868 | 5.9901 |
Clearly these three are plotting something together.
Regarding Swampert, kinda have to say it's about damn time. Quagsire has never been better than Swampert, it's stats are vastly inferior to Swampert's. (Every single stat is worse) Unaware is the only real reason Quagsire gets any love. Even Gastrodon outclasses Quarsire's stats. Unaware & Recover are awesome, but Quasire has scarcely enough Attack of it's own to abuse it especially if you're running max HP & Def. Quagsire is a lot like Porygon2, it stops a sweep, but it's sheer lack of offense just makes it complete setup fodder for Entry Hazards, Screens, Toxic, whatever.
Quagsire is mainly being used as a quick fix for people that just let things set-up on their teams rather than...not let them set-up. I mean don't even act like 95/85/65 defenses are good for coming in on an Outrage, Close Combat, or even an Adamant Excadrill Earthquake. (Now if Dusknoir got Unaware...)
Swampert is completely different. It has the stats to take a +1 anything as long as it hits neutral, Stealth Rock, Roar, and enough Attack and even Sp.Attack strength to be threatening. It's an unpredictable utility monster. Lack of recovery is bad, but it's not "Plasbad."
He dumps on Rain abusers (looking at you Toxicroak, Dragonite, & Thundurus), he dumps on Sand, dumps on 5 of the top 10 Pokemon in OU, Swampert's just a smart choice which is why he's making a comeback.
Now what I want to know is why Heatran's so high. Like I said in the other thread, Fast Ground-types, Drizzle, Focus Blast because Tyranitar is more than OU, Jellicent, Rotom-W, the uprise of good Fighting-types, Eviolite, Explosion nerf. Heatran is just a carrier of all sorts of diseases for team building.
| 27 | Haxorus | 33256 | 6.0608 |
| 28 | Salamence | 32868 | 5.9901 |
Clearly these three are plotting something together.
Regarding Swampert, kinda have to say it's about damn time. Quagsire has never been better than Swampert, it's stats are vastly inferior to Swampert's. (Every single stat is worse) Unaware is the only real reason Quagsire gets any love. Even Gastrodon outclasses Quarsire's stats. Unaware & Recover are awesome, but Quasire has scarcely enough Attack of it's own to abuse it especially if you're running max HP & Def. Quagsire is a lot like Porygon2, it stops a sweep, but it's sheer lack of offense just makes it complete setup fodder for Entry Hazards, Screens, Toxic, whatever.
Quagsire is mainly being used as a quick fix for people that just let things set-up on their teams rather than...not let them set-up. I mean don't even act like 95/85/65 defenses are good for coming in on an Outrage, Close Combat, or even an Adamant Excadrill Earthquake. (Now if Dusknoir got Unaware...)
Swampert is completely different. It has the stats to take a +1 anything as long as it hits neutral, Stealth Rock, Roar, and enough Attack and even Sp.Attack strength to be threatening. It's an unpredictable utility monster. Lack of recovery is bad, but it's not "Plasbad."
He dumps on Rain abusers (looking at you Toxicroak, Dragonite, & Thundurus), he dumps on Sand, dumps on 5 of the top 10 Pokemon in OU, Swampert's just a smart choice which is why he's making a comeback.
Now what I want to know is why Heatran's so high. Like I said in the other thread, Fast Ground-types, Drizzle, Focus Blast because Tyranitar is more than OU, Jellicent, Rotom-W, the uprise of good Fighting-types, Eviolite, Explosion nerf. Heatran is just a carrier of all sorts of diseases for team building.
ah yes that explains it
| 67 | Electivire | 13897 | 2.5327 |
lol love for evire
| 102 | Murkrow | 1843 | 1.3299 |
need more of these guys and not
| 88 | Mandibuzz | 2431 | 1.7542 |
these guys
Heatran is only so high up because his resistances and immunities make him extremely easy to use. Even with so many counters/checks/whatever he still does beat a lot of the top threats.
lol love for evire
| 102 | Murkrow | 1843 | 1.3299 |
need more of these guys and not
| 88 | Mandibuzz | 2431 | 1.7542 |
these guys
Clearly because heatran is badass
Heatran is only so high up because his resistances and immunities make him extremely easy to use. Even with so many counters/checks/whatever he still does beat a lot of the top threats.
Cheers R_D
Deoxy-D is only 20 in UU.
What??
Deoxy-D is only 20 in UU.
What??
I have peaked #1 with Virizion and Latias on the same team and no weather, so, I find it very lulzy how they're almost UU, people relies way too much on their walls, and just throw them against everything, that's why is so easy to lure them, and then sweeps their asses at late game
Anyway, Chandelure is not really bad, may be not the best, but as Kefka said, it's a great LURE, and with everyone running the almost the same team as KG, there's nothing better than that, weak their walls (you damn immortal spD Jirachi), lure their scarfers, and it's technically gg ;D
Anyway, Chandelure is not really bad, may be not the best, but as Kefka said, it's a great LURE, and with everyone running the almost the same team as KG, there's nothing better than that, weak their walls (you damn immortal spD Jirachi), lure their scarfers, and it's technically gg ;D
breh
強いだね
since nobody gives a shit about OU
things that should not be where they are in UU:
Empoleon: Ok, I realize it 4x resists Blizzard, but it's weak to fighting and ground... that can't be the best
Milotic: who the fuck uses this and why do they use it... somebody explain how this is at all better than suicune, please (don't BS me about marvel scale; recover means it's toxic bait)
Sawsbuck: what is this doing so far down?
Abomasnow:WHAT IS THIS DOING SO FAR DOWN? I love hail teams... :(
Staraptor: trolololol this is great evidence for brokenness
Weavile: why is this used
Shaymin: aww the poor little thing is at 45... I should make sure to raise that next round!
Thanks for stats R_D!
things that should not be where they are in UU:
Empoleon: Ok, I realize it 4x resists Blizzard, but it's weak to fighting and ground... that can't be the best
Milotic: who the fuck uses this and why do they use it... somebody explain how this is at all better than suicune, please (don't BS me about marvel scale; recover means it's toxic bait)
Sawsbuck: what is this doing so far down?
Abomasnow:WHAT IS THIS DOING SO FAR DOWN? I love hail teams... :(
Staraptor: trolololol this is great evidence for brokenness
Weavile: why is this used
Shaymin: aww the poor little thing is at 45... I should make sure to raise that next round!
Thanks for stats R_D!
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
Milotic doesn't have to RestTalk (which was pretty nerfed in Gen V), and the Toxic issue can be resolved by pairing it with Aromatherapy Chansey or Roserade. Remember that Milotic LIKES all other forms of status, including the first layer of Toxic Spikes. It also learns Dragon Tail (not stopped by taunt), Haze (shuts down Baton Pass), and has an extra moveslot for a coverage move like Toxic or Ice Beam.
I'm not saying Milotic is better; they just have different roles.
Tornadus can set up priority Rain Dance for itself, Kingdra, Kabutops, and Ludicolo. You know, the ones that were broken with Drizzle in OU, and have gone to UU because of the ban on that combo.
Murkrow could do this before, but now Tornadus is UU.
Speaking of Tornadus and Thundurus, they sure made a lot of mischief in Massachusetts yesterday.
Murkrow could do this before, but now Tornadus is UU.
Speaking of Tornadus and Thundurus, they sure made a lot of mischief in Massachusetts yesterday.
@Katakiri:
List of things Swampert has over Quagsire:
1) Stealth Rock, which lets it abuse phazing more
2) better stats in every single category
List of things Quagsire has over Swampert:
1)Recover (lol @ Swampert relying on Wish)
2)Encore (awesome team support)
3)better phazing move (Yawn makes them switch OR go to sleep, and it doesn't have negative priority)
4)more status options (by which I mean Swagger, which is viable due to Unaware, as proven by Dezza Laa)
5)Amnesia, although it's not very viable, and Acid Spray, which Quaggy can't take advantage of
6)Unaware (this is huge)
If you noticed, Quagsire has the definite advantage in both movepool and ability, which are normally enough to make him a better choice. Swampert has its benefits (such as the stats) and is better for certain purposes, but Quagsire has much broader options to offer.
On another note, why on earth is Electivire higher than Tangrowth? Tangrowth can seriously wall shit, and actually hit hard with STAB Power Whip/Leaf Storm, as well as EQ. Or, it can be a bulky Chlorophyll sweeper, with access to Growth and a great (in Sunlight) recovery move in Synthesis. Tangrowth can also utilize Double Powder.
Electivire can... sweep a poorly-made and weakened team?
List of things Swampert has over Quagsire:
1) Stealth Rock, which lets it abuse phazing more
2) better stats in every single category
List of things Quagsire has over Swampert:
1)Recover (lol @ Swampert relying on Wish)
2)Encore (awesome team support)
3)better phazing move (Yawn makes them switch OR go to sleep, and it doesn't have negative priority)
4)more status options (by which I mean Swagger, which is viable due to Unaware, as proven by Dezza Laa)
5)Amnesia, although it's not very viable, and Acid Spray, which Quaggy can't take advantage of
6)Unaware (this is huge)
If you noticed, Quagsire has the definite advantage in both movepool and ability, which are normally enough to make him a better choice. Swampert has its benefits (such as the stats) and is better for certain purposes, but Quagsire has much broader options to offer.
On another note, why on earth is Electivire higher than Tangrowth? Tangrowth can seriously wall shit, and actually hit hard with STAB Power Whip/Leaf Storm, as well as EQ. Or, it can be a bulky Chlorophyll sweeper, with access to Growth and a great (in Sunlight) recovery move in Synthesis. Tangrowth can also utilize Double Powder.
Electivire can... sweep a poorly-made and weakened team?
Well geez fuck Tyranitar.
And Landorus and Latias at 50/51? Whoa seriously, people need to realize how good they are.
And Landorus and Latias at 50/51? Whoa seriously, people need to realize how good they are.
breh
強いだね
please, just drop discussion on Quag and Swampert
Ferrothorn, the #2 pokemon, walls them and OHKOes them and sets up on them.
arguing about which is better is like arguing about whether farfetch'd is better than luvdisc; no matter what you say, both still suck.
Also did not see that Tornadus is UU.
First Sun and Hail rape UU, now Rain does lol
Ferrothorn, the #2 pokemon, walls them and OHKOes them and sets up on them.
arguing about which is better is like arguing about whether farfetch'd is better than luvdisc; no matter what you say, both still suck.
Also did not see that Tornadus is UU.
First Sun and Hail rape UU, now Rain does lol
Well, um, actually, Tornadus does receive credit for being one of the best Rain Dance users, so it might remediate itself somewhat in the future. Again, UU Latias is nightmarish, but maybe that's due to number of walls flying around OU, INCLUDING but not limited to Tyranitar, Jirachi, Heatran, Ferrothorn, Scizor...
Okay. Maybe I'm seeing why Latias isn't used so much after all.
I'm also somewhat surprised at the relatively low Landorus usage. Then again, I haven't been seeing too many Landorus on sandstorm teams lately, seeing that sometimes it falls short.
Okay. Maybe I'm seeing why Latias isn't used so much after all.
I'm also somewhat surprised at the relatively low Landorus usage. Then again, I haven't been seeing too many Landorus on sandstorm teams lately, seeing that sometimes it falls short.
Im glad Swampert's going up. His tank set is viable, and the CB set is sex in Drizzle. Its still quite uncommon to see so your predictable opponent will usually get their wall 2HKOed.
I am suprised Latios is #6, considering how often people carry a Tyranitar and/or a trapper like Scizor to make its job difficult. It gets walled by the common Jirachi too. Now no one interpret this the wrong way, im not saying Latios isnt excellent, im saying the metagame is tough on him.
Lastly, I am shocked that Landorus is so low. It can OHKO Hippowdon after a Swords Dance. It packs very few hard counters and can systematically weaken teams with a Substitute-3 attacks set.
Also-
I am suprised Latios is #6, considering how often people carry a Tyranitar and/or a trapper like Scizor to make its job difficult. It gets walled by the common Jirachi too. Now no one interpret this the wrong way, im not saying Latios isnt excellent, im saying the metagame is tough on him.
Lastly, I am shocked that Landorus is so low. It can OHKO Hippowdon after a Swords Dance. It packs very few hard counters and can systematically weaken teams with a Substitute-3 attacks set.
Also-
I love how these classic members of stall in 4th gen are right next to each other.
I can honestly say that I am scared now. Seriously, Whimsicott and Latias almost UU? This is unbelievable. I can't imagine what horror they would bring if they dropped down.
Thanks R_D for the stats! They're very insightful.
As far as Quagsire vs. Swampert goes, I see both sides of the argument. Swampert can hit a heck of a lot harder than Quagsire can ever dream. Quagsire, on the other hand, can take those extra hits and Recover off damage that Swampert simply can't do. In my opinion, they both have entirely different uses. Do you want a temporary check that can fight back or a solid counter that doesn't have much of an offensive presence? Both are excellent Pokemon and function in different manners.
In other news, it's sad to see Scrafty take a dive. Seriously, this thing is unpredictable with two great abilities and a great movepool.
As far as Quagsire vs. Swampert goes, I see both sides of the argument. Swampert can hit a heck of a lot harder than Quagsire can ever dream. Quagsire, on the other hand, can take those extra hits and Recover off damage that Swampert simply can't do. In my opinion, they both have entirely different uses. Do you want a temporary check that can fight back or a solid counter that doesn't have much of an offensive presence? Both are excellent Pokemon and function in different manners.
In other news, it's sad to see Scrafty take a dive. Seriously, this thing is unpredictable with two great abilities and a great movepool.
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