Between those two options, I'd say that Razor Shell is the better of the two - having just that little bit of extra power along with a 50% defense drop chance is far better than a higher critical hit rate - especially since both moves are boosted by Sharpness
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread
- Thread starter ironwater
- Start date
So why is Meganium in the OU tier?? bit new to competitive Pokemon and always saw it as the weakest of the 3 Johto starters. is it because this is the first time it can be used in recent years or is there an actual reason?
When new or returning Pokemon are added to the game, regardless of previous tier placement, they automatically start in either OU or Ubers depending on the mon. They then drop in tier placement proportional to the mon's usage in that tier. Meganium was added back to the game in this new DLC, so it's starting in OU until next month's usage period begins when Meganium will almost certainly drop from OU into a lower tier.
Ahhhhh that makes more sense now, thank you. half thinking it got a buff because of a new move it learns or something.
is the reason why there isn't a new "radar" right now because the metagame isn't all that broken, or we are simply suppossed to wait due to some smogon policy?
(I am okay with the current state of the metagame by the way)
(I am okay with the current state of the metagame by the way)
Does anyone have a good specs kyurem team?
here's mine for OU
1. Kyurem, Loaded Dice DDance of course.
2. Darkrai, Hypnosis/Dark Void, Charge Beam, Dark Pulse, Blizzard. Tera Ice.
3. Chien Pao, Ice Spinner, Throat Chop, Sucker Punch, Sacred Sword. (in normal non-Showdown battles/ For pure OU use Cetitan).
4. Maushold (friend guard if doubles) Tidy Up, Baton Pass, Super Fang, Population Bomb/ Follow Me if Doubles
5. Ninetails. Blizzard, Aurora Veil, Nasty Plot, Dazzling Gleam (or whatever fairy type move hits your fancy that does damage)
6. Depending on whether Singles or Doubles. For Singles: Galarian Slowking with Regenerator and Chilling Reception and whatever move set you think is best. For Doubles, Use Eviolite Porygon 2 with Gravity, Electroweb, Blizzard and Recover.
For Singles: Which is what this thread is about cause.. OU.. Your key point in this team is that it is centered primarily around enabling Kyurem and getting him safely and ready to obliterate the entire opposing team. D Dance is honestly just there to be a "Just in Case you don't have Maushold situation." On the other hand Ninetails is also there for that as it can help make Kyurem extra bulky under the snow so it can D Dance some more, while also being there to counter other weather teams as a switch in (Ninetails needs speed, so it can often lose weather wars if both weather setters are the first out on the field, making Torkoal and Tyranitar especially dangerous).
However, usually you want Ninetails out on the field first thing so that either Maushold can come out second to tidy up or Kyurem can come in to spam some D Dance. Until it dies or you're forced into a switch however, Ninetails is free to throw around its own offensive power with Nasty Plot set ups being quite doable under aurora veil, especially if your opponent is forced to use Brick Break to break your screens. Not many pokemon that counter Ninetails can outspeed it, so once one nasty plot is up, it can start being a sweeper in its own right.
Your second pokemon is usually always Maushold however, and it can be unusually durable when it wants to be if you're running full support and not offense. One Tidy Up is usually enough to make it faster than the opposing pokemon while taking care of any hazards it might set. In fact if your opponent is using a hazard lead like Glimmora, it might be better to start off with Maushold instead of Ninetails to take advantage of the turn it spends setting up hazards.
Once Maushold is fast enough, you can baton pass Kyurem safely in without having to worry about any hazards, which can chip it pretty bad thanks to being ice type. You can even ddance one more time if you think its worth the risk. From there its simply a matter of spamming Scale Shot and Icicle Spear.
Darkrai is meant to be a hyper offensive pokemon that can fill a role of special attacker if physical offense is not enough, while also being able to run Tera Ice Blizzard effectively under snow.
Focus Sash Chien Pao is an alternative Maushold Baton Passer if you feel there's too much of a risk for Kyurem to run into the likes of Fluttermane (who will show up regardless of tier if you aren't playing in Showdown but in the actual game itself). Sucker Punch can counter hard in Tera Dark, and Chien Pao can clear terrains out with Ice Spinner, making him a good counter for. HOWEVER, since this is OU, Slush Rush Cetitan can fulfill the role of Baton Passing Rillaboom Counter thanks to its respectable bulk. Chien Pao's pretty much just there just in case your opponent decides its time to use Fluttermane or you're in a tournament that runs by Pokemon's official rules for what's "Banned" instead of Smogon's rules.
Galarian Slowking is there to reset Snow or be the Lead in your team if dealing with a Torkoal or Tyranitar. Honestly either Normal or Galarian works, with Normal having the advantage of typing against Torkoal. Galarian is prefferred if you want him to actually hit somebody. Using screens and then Chilling Reception can counter slow weather setters while also immediately giving maushold Tidy Up room or Kyurem D Dance some d dance time, or give Cetitan some time to get rid of a pesky Rillaboom.
VGC/OU Doubles Viability:
This team can be used in Doubles even MORE effectively. Simply switch out Galarian Slowking for Porygon2 as a Gravity setting support for Dark Void Darkrai and give Darkrai Protect. Then turn Kyurem into Kyurem Black and switch out Stone Edge for Fusion Bolt while giving him Terra Electric. Give Maushold Friend Guard and Follow me. This allows you to send out both Ninetails and Maushold on the same turn and seamlessly send in Kyurem immediately on turn two in the maximum best conditions. The Porygon 2 Gravity support also allows you to spam Dark Void with Darkrai for some very scary results which can be more consistent than anything Hydrapple brings to the table. The Gravity also allows Blizzard Spamming to resume even without Snow to use.
it just occurred to me you might've meant "Choice SPecs" by specs and not like "Specs" as in stats. In all honesty that's a toughie. Kyurem isn't exactly a Nasty Plot user, and imo opinion it might fall under just "Blizzard" with Ninetails. You could run the same team I ran with Kyurem as a special attacker and Darkrai being replaced with a Breaking Swipe user. That way Kyurem can safely spam Blizzard under screens and Maushold Friend Guard/Follow me Support.
In this case Kyurem would be a Blizzard spammer/Coverage user. So run Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse , Blizzard, Flash Cannon, and Focus Blast. In Doubles you can run Porygon 2 still to give White Kyurem gravity support on Blizzard and Focus Blast. Flash Cannon is for fairy types and running Tera Steel might be a fantastic idea to counter the large amount of fairies in the meta nowadays, not to mention the Tera Fairies out there.
Aside from these, I'm afraid Kyurem doesn't have many options without its Ubers Forms. (Fusion Bolt and Fusion Flare make a huge difference). and suffers from the same stuff Giratina does in regards to move pool imo. But this should work well in OU.
Honestly me too. Nothing too absolutely broken atm that it can't have a counter to it. I think that's mostly due to Terrastalizing making type matchups always up in the air. It makes move pool more important than typing.
There is no Golurk page in the returning mons subforum. Whoever was given it didn't make one.
How common is Jolly Gambit?
I had an ID Skarm with enough speed for Adamant, and my Skarm ended up getting 2HKOd by it.
I had an ID Skarm with enough speed for Adamant, and my Skarm ended up getting 2HKOd by it.
I'd say it's pretty uncommon. That being said, it hasn't even passed 2 weeks since the DLC2 came out and people are still experimenting things.
I would just blame this on matchup if I was you. Kinda of like losing your Phys Def Tusk to Tera Fairy Gambit. Gambit is a "pick your poison" type of mon.
senorlopez
Formerly Ricardo [old]
Hey, sorry to give a late reply to your question but I made a website that presents this data (minus the tera). Website is called showdowngraphs
edit I plan to update the usage stats, which will include the new mons, on the 1st of Jan.
Last edited:
To be honest if I had to guess, it will be because the council are deciding on how to move forward. But I'm sure a Radar will eventually be coming out prior to SPL (is my guess)
Smogon is tiered by usage, so a mom becomes OU by being used with sufficient frequency by players on the OU ladder. If there's something you've been finding success with, feel free to share your sets, opinions, and reasoning on the Metagame Discussion thread.
Also note that tiering and viability are separate concepts. Plenty of mons that aren't OU by usage have roles they can play successfully in the tier. Once the meta settles a bit following the release of DLC2, the current Viability List will be replaced with a Viability Ranking thread where folks can make their case about the relative utility of a given mon in the tier -- or lack thereof.
[Tera Fairy] Flash Fire Air Balloon Heatran / Ceruledge if it doesn't have EQ you actually can forego the Air Balloon.
If you don't want to go through with sticking to a tera I'd probably suggest Unaware Dondozo or Unaware Clefable
Thanks, I'm having a tough time making teams that rely on a single Tera option, so I might give those two a try
Archaludon can be a powerful check, as it is not affected by Burning Bulwark, and a supereffective Draco Meteor can send it flying. Also thanks to Stamina, you can accumulate enough defense that even under sun you'd be able to ride out most of Bulwark's strongest attacks. Its also large enough to mitigate Heat Crash, of which Gouging Fire is arguably the best user. Also Archaludon thrives in rain teams, so the team you'd build around it would be perfect for cancelling out the sun.
Another powerful check, which is again in part thanks to its Special power not being affected by Bulwark, its ability to dish out powerful Dragon Stabs, and its ability to counter weather whether it be rain or sun, is Walking Wake. Walking Wake's main stab attack thrives in both rain and sun, allowing you to run it in rain teams to counteract not only sun setters like Torkoal, but sun abusers like Charizard and Heatran, which it can comfortably outspeed and wallbreak respectively (regarding Heatran the wall itself). Also its dragon attacks will be powered up in the sun, and it is in fact on a higher speed tier than Gouging fire as long as it hasn't had the chance to get off any dragon dances (regarding that you'll have to judge when to switch into Wake. One Dragon Dance is enough to make things go badly for you if its a Jolly Gouging Fire). You'll want to make sure Wake is either out before Gouging Fire or to switch into Wake during a turn they predictably use Burning Bulwark. Though another strat is to make sure Wake is using Focus Sash if you send it into a D Danced Gouge after it kills one of your mons.
Here are some less meta, but decent enough checks to Gouging Fire, and also pokemon that'll thrive fighting against Sun Teams.
1. Heatran. Its ability to absorb fire attacks like they are nothing and boost its own fire as well, and to directly switch into a Gouging Fire's Flareblitz/Heatcrash, Outrage/Dragon Rush without taking any-much damage, as well as its usage of Earth Power, makes it a perfect counter not just to Gouging Fire, but literally most Sun Team staples except for Walking Wake. Taking advantage of its boosted fire makes short work of Venusaur (though watch out for Earth Power using Venusaurs) and other Chlorophyll users with the exception of the fighting type Hisui Liligant. Its Earth Power deals with most fire type sunners like Torkoal or Arcanine, as well as Raging Bolt and Gouging Fire. Flash cannon and steel typing deals some major counter power to Fluttermane.
However its important to note that it'll die ultra hard to Walking Wake, so be prepared for that.
2. Garchomp. Garchomp needs to be sent out BEFORE Gouging Fire has a chance to D-Dance. Thankfully most people won't risk Garchomp throwing out Earthquake or Outrage, and will immediately burning Bulwark. Take advantage of this by using Dig. Dig leaves Gouging Fire in a predicament and usually forces it to either take the supereffective attack, or switch into another pokemon, giving you some breathing room. Nobody expects Dig either, since 2 turn moves aren't exactly meta unless you have a way to power herb it, or it gives you a decent effect while charging (Meteor Beam and Electro Shot).
3. Guts users. Pokemon like Ursaluna can run Choice band instead of flame orb, or even choice scarf. This makes Burning Bulwarks useless. However, Even Flame Orb Ursaluna leaves Bulwark useless as the burn just makes it stronger half a turn faster. It becomes a useless Protect. And Ursaluna is bulky enough to withstand an unboosted Gouging Fire and land a OHKO Headlong rush right afterwards. Ursaluna coming in even on a 1D Dance boosted Gouging Fire is going to force your opponent to either take the loss or switch out. Also Ursaluna is a powerful pokemon in its own right without being there JUST for Gouging Fire.
4. Iron Boulder. Iron Boulder, one of the other Paradox Pokemon, has Mighty Cleave, a move that easily passes Burning Bulwark, while also landing a powerful supereffective rock type attack. You could consider it the "Anti-Gouging Fire" in the same way that Miraidon is the "Anti-Koraidon" in some respects (being able to learn Dazzling Gleam is one reason). Iron Boulder is powerful against most sun pokemon, while also boasting enough bulk and speed to effectively taunt away Dragon Dances and stallers that they try to switch in, wasting your opponent's turns and forcing them to run Solar Beam users like Venusaur. However, due to the lack of Electric Terrain setters that are decent, Iron Boulder will have to run Booster Energy, which limits your Item Slots. His stats however, are powerful enough to not run booster energies, but it does result in a noticeable drop in power compared to a Life Orb using Protosynthesis Boosted Gouging Fire. Also again, watch out for Walking Wake, who is still faster.
Last edited:
(Setup) sweeper: Pokemon that can "sweep" through the opposing team. They usually have boosting moves and are mostly used on (hyper) offense. Examples include Quiver Dance Volcarona and Dragon Dance Roaring Moon.
Cleaner: Pokemon that can "clean up" the opposing team after holes in the team have been made. They are usually fast, possibly thanks to Choice Scarf or Booster Energy, and/or have priority moves and are mostly used on (bulky) offense and balance, in tandem with a wallbreaker. Examples include Choice Scarf Enamorus and Booster Energy Iron Valiant.
Wallbreaker: Pokemon that can dish out strong attacks to "break walls" and make holes in the opposing team. They usually have high attack or special attack, possibly thanks to Choice Band or Choice Specs, and are mostly used on (bulky) offense and balance, in tandem with a cleaner. Examples include Choice Specs Kyurem and Choice Specs Walking Wake.
Keep in mind that many Pokemon and even certain sets, like Kingambit with Swords Dance and Sucker Punch, can fulfill multiple of these roles, depending on the team and the flow of the game.
If a pokemon that has white herb and defiant gets a stat lowered, will the defiant proc still happen or will the white herb reset overide it? Asking because I'm thinking of using a white herb ogerpon set with superpower that can also help against sticky web teams.