SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

[Eriorguez]

That just means that the method isn't something that's existed in the games before - there are several new Gen 9 Pokemon that have an unknown evolution method as well. Considering that several of the other Hisuian mons such as Growlithe or Sneasel have evolution methods that we actually do know, that's very likely not the case.
Basculin-H specifically was changed to evolve into an invalid index number instead of Basculegion, and Basculegion specifically has egg moves defined (unlike any other evolved Pokemon), so I think there's a bit more credence to it being an outlier.

Scyther and Ursaring evolve by using items introduced in Legends. Stantler, Qwilfish and Basculin evolve by using a move X times for inane grinding reasons. The other Hisuians evolve by using already seen items.

Honestly, just introduce the Legends items, change the "use X times" into "know the move", and stop enforcing artificial scarcity.

 

[Eclairius]

I'd point that Toxapex still gets "scald at home". It's same move but without the burn and instead a guaranteed -atk drop.

Sure it's less impactful in long term, but it can definitely still chip them.

I'd like to point out (if i'm remembering the screenshot with Chilling water's TM correctly) that Chilling Water is a 50BP vs Scald's 80BP. With its atrocious Spa, Toxapex probably won't chip much health with it.

 

[Garance]

I'd like to point out (if i'm remembering the screenshot with Chilling water's TM correctly) that Chilling Water is a 50BP vs Scald's 80BP. With it's atrocious Spa, Toxapex probably won't chip much health with it.

The goal is not really to deal damages but to lower atk, but yes, this move is trash. Toxapex without Scald/Knock Off will use Sludge Bomb/Poison Jab and like someone said before : HI STEEL TYPES

 

[Worldie]

I'd like to point out (if i'm remembering the screenshot with Chilling water's TM correctly) that Chilling Water is a 50BP vs Scald's 80BP. With its atrocious Spa, Toxapex probably won't chip much health with it.

It's going to chip less than Scald surely, but that's still far from "can't damage at all".

 

[Sulfurian]

The goal is not really to deal damages but to lower atk, but yes, this move is trash. Toxapex without Scald/Knock Off will use Sludge Bomb/Poison Jab and like someone said before : HI STEEL TYPES

Dev clearly lost to a toxapex

 

[Unknown Warrior]

I'd point that Toxapex still gets "scald at home". It's same move but without the burn and instead a guaranteed -atk drop.

Sure it's less impactful in long term, but it can definitely still chip them.

It's far from the same though. In the past Magnezone really did not like switching in and getting that burn or gets its Lefties knocked. Now it has nothing to fear.
To say nothing of the likes of Bisharp (and Kingambit now). It'd never DREAM of switching into a Scald, but now that turns into a free +1 Attack with Defiant.

 

[Eclairius]

Dev clearly lost to a toxapex

Surprised it took them that long to learn of its infamy. Then again with how much they love doubles, they might be playing singles only once every blue moon.

 

[AquaticPanic]

Stantler, Scyther, Ursaring & Qwilfish-H all have an unknown shared evolution method with no parameters set that people are thinking means they just can't evolve anymore.

I feel like ots way more likely that this is a placeholder tag that will be updated when DLC drops. Would not really make sense for them to not evolve at all, and I get the feeling they just want all Hisui mons to come together at once (so locking them out of base game but making them able to evolve once DLC drops)

 

[360 No Silph Scope]

While having a look at the Dolphin pokémon (Palafin) I noticed he learns Jet Punch. The pastebin I have states that it is a priority move, however I can't see accuracy, power, nor typing does anyone know if it's any different from aqua jet?

This is the pastebin I am using right now: https://pastebin.com/RnANh9it

 

[Ironmage]

Nah, not really.

Toxic was a ""global TM"" that never had any reason to be global in first place. Why can every pokemon learn to spread toxins? Sure Pokemon kinda fails at logic but that one was way below the average pokemon logic.

They stopped distributing it everywhere in gen 8 already, and are simply continuing that logic.

It just looks like GF doesn't want "generic TMs" anymore outside a sparce amount of generic utilities like Protect.
Understandably so, since logically speaking a move that "everyone learns" doesn't make much sense either.

See, that's the thing: I really liked that damage-over-time, particularly percent damage-over-time, could be considered to be generic utility. It was something that defined pokemon's identity to me. So I'm looking for answers just as if they removed Protect, and the the answer that occured to me is that the boss design is much closer to other RPGs in which DoT is much weaker.

 

[T.I.A.]

Maybe a new move for most Pokemon to learn that doesn't involve toxins....including for mons that doesn't make sense for them to have?
How about a generic "sapping spell" over time? If Game Freak's trying to get every Pokemon to be made for that game exactly, at least give us tools that help make up for the loss of those prior tools.

 

[Worldie]

Or neither of these and leave poison / burn to respectively poison and fire / ghost types.

And there's leech seed if you want grass, sandstorm if you want rock, plus a bunch of other dot attacks like infestation, fire spin and the new signature move of the salt pokemon.

If you like Toxic, go ahead and use one of the several poison types that still learns it. It's still there.

 

[Sulfurian]

See, that's the thing: I really liked that damage-over-time, particularly percent damage-over-time, could be considered to be generic utility. It was something that defined pokemon's identity to me. So I'm looking for answers just as if they removed Protect, and the the answer that occured to me is that the boss design is much closer to other RPGs in which DoT is much weaker.

Honestly with all these weak moves with debuffs it reminds me of original SMT: Nocturne. Spam debuffs to win boss fights.

 

[Magcargo]

You know what's really funny is that regular Mawile has LO Sheer Force Iron Heads with no drawbacks that are on par with Hammer.

252 Atk Tinkaton Gigaton Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 181-214 (53 - 62.7%)

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mew: 183-216 (45.4 - 53.5%)

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mew: 247-292 (61.2 - 72.4%)

Of course LO or Band Hammer will do more damage but come with substantial downsides. Mawile can just click whatever and that isn't getting into the rest of its movepool. Tinkaton has to use sort-of Banded Hyper Beam to out-damage Mawile.

Yeah, Sheer Force also has the added benefit of boosting Mawile's STAB Play Rough and Crunch + no LO recoil, while Tinkaton's Play Rough is gonna be hitting like a wet noodle. Mawile's main issue is that all its stats are unbelievably bad outside of attack and defense, so Tinkaton will still probably be better Pokemon, but Mawile is arguably more interesting due to having better abilities.

Its a shame really. I wanted Tinkaton to be a strong OU Pokemon with good stats. I though that it'd at least have better stats than Mawile, and while that is largely the case, its lower in the two most important areas of Attack and Defense. Instead, they gave it a very weird stat distribution and made it another one button Pokemon largely carried by its signature move. I think its a bit boring frankly. Still, I may be a bit too harsh on it since it still has a solid movepool with options like Stealth Rock + U-Turn and one of the best typings in the game. Lanturn is similar Pokemon with rather underwhelming stats, but it gets by as a pivot just fine due to its unique combination of traits. I think Tinkaton could wind up being similar, with its typing and movepool giving it good utility on top of having a big Hammer to smack around most threats with.

 

[RoiDadadou]

I remind everyone that both pastebins are on the doc.

 

[Perriechu]

I feel like ots way more likely that this is a placeholder tag that will be updated when DLC drops. Would not really make sense for them to not evolve at all, and I get the feeling they just want all Hisui mons to come together at once (so locking them out of base game but making them able to evolve once DLC drops)

It should also be noted that by the time HOME comes we could even have the first wave of DLC around the corner, we’ll find out on Pokémon day but since the DLC is going to continue the paradox storyline I can’t see them holding out on it for so long. It’ll probably be a spring / summer + autumn release again.

 

[slp32]

I saw someone on 4chan say that some of the stats changed in 1.0.1, and what do you know - they did.
The new legendary quartet all received a 10 BST point reduction, along with various changes to TM moves, Basculin-2's evolution was corrected, and so on.

 

[Mr. Uno]

Does anyone know the typing and bp of glaive rush? I had the impression it was dragon, like most pseudo signature moves, but then there's already dragon "rush", which kinda makes me think maybe it's ice.

 

[Perriechu]

While having a look at the Dolphin pokémon (Palafin) I noticed he learns Jet Punch. The pastebin I have states that it is a priority move, however I can't see accuracy, power, nor typing does anyone know if it's any different from aqua jet?

This is the pastebin I am using right now: https://pastebin.com/RnANh9it

We don’t have the details of moves from datamine just yet, we only have them from in-game screenshots

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

Ting-Lu 165/110/130/50/80/45 -> 155/110/125/55/80/45
Chien-Pao 80/130/80/90/65/135 -> 80/120/80/90/65/135
Wo-Chien 85/90/100/100/135/70 -> 85/85/100/95/135/70
Chi-Yu 55/80/80/145/120/100 -> 55/80/80/135/120/100

 

[BlueRay]

It'll probably have a niche but I don't think Fake Out and a a strong move you can only pick every other turn are that great when you're dealing pitiful damage the other turns. At that point, Gigaton Hammer is just a Steel-type Giga Impact.

Assuming a special item doesn't exist, we'll have to wait until we see it in action for a bit to really know but my hopes aren't high.

Tbf, it has Own Tempo, which makes it immune to Intimidate. That's an advantage over some other physical attackers like Arcanine, which does relatively less damage when it gets intimidated. There are also some Swagger shenenigans if you just want to have a fun time. And with Dark likely seeing lots of play in VGC, this Pokémon will likely be able to carve a niche there for the time being.
Fake Out was already mentioned, and its distribution is fairly restricted at the moment. So, that's sth to bear in mind.

 

[TFS]

I saw someone on 4chan say that some of the stats changed in 1.0.1, and what do you know - they did.
The new legendary quartet all received a 10 BST point reduction, along with various changes to TM moves, Basculin-2's evolution was corrected, and so on.

They fixed Typhlosion's ability, r-right?

For real though, did they fix Zoroark-H's base stats? That actually did seem like copypaste / an error.

 

[Worldie]

They fixed Typhlosion's ability, r-right?

There's nothing to fix, the change looks pretty deliberate, all other hisuian starters also got their HA changed.

 

[Perriechu]

I saw someone on 4chan say that some of the stats changed in 1.0.1, and what do you know - they did.
The new legendary quartet all received a 10 BST point reduction, along with various changes to TM moves, Basculin-2's evolution was corrected, and so on.

oh so nice to hear they reconsidered giving Victory Dance to Quaquaval

 

[Rarycaris]

Can't believe I just noticed Groudon got Spikes and kept SR. It's gonna be such a good hazards setter with its ridiculous bulk and ability providing better support than it used to, alongside Defog's distribution being almost zero among restricted mons (literally just Giratina as far as I can see, which Groudon struggles with but the rest of the meta really doesn't).

It also gets will-o-wisp but I think it has too much 4MSS to make that much use of it.