Pokémon Sableye

[farranpoison]

Not sure if this deserves its own thread, but I figure I'd give it a try. If y'all decide that a thread is not necessary, I'm fine with a lock.

Name: Sableye
Pokedex Number: #302
Type: Ghost/Dark
Ability: Stall/Keen Eye
Hidden Ability: Prankster
Base Stats: 50 / 75 / 75 / 65 / 65 / 50 (BST 380)


General Analysis:
While its "counterpart" Mawile was blessed with a Mega Evolution, Huge Power, and general badassery, the little gem gremlin didn't really change all that much. However, the metagame around it certainly did, with the introduction of the Fairy type, in which Sableye, one of the few Pokemon who could boast to have no weaknesses, finally got one to the new Fairy attacks. In terms of attacking, however, Sableye got a few new benefits, in the form of Dark no longer being resisted by Steel types, an improved BP on Knock Off, making it an arguably viable alternative to Foul Play, and a higher accuracy WoW. While Prankster was what made anybody even consider Sableye, the new generation introduced yet another two Prankster rivals: Klefki and Mega Banette. The angry key-jingling menace and the super curse doll are on everyone's minds now, and while they do overshadow Sableye, the Jacob's Ladder fan still has enough of a niche to differentiate itself and be a good Pokemon to consider if a team needs a priority statuser.

Potential Movesets
Specially Defensive
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Calm/Careful
252 HP/4 Def/252 SpD
-Taunt
-Will-o-Wisp
-Recover
-Foul Play/Knock Off/Night Shade

The standard OU build from last gen, coming into a changed metagame. The EV spread gives it maximum special bulk, and with the general nerfing of Special Attacks, Sableye can most likely be able to tank a few special hits while spreading status before going down. Taunt and Will-o-Wisp are what differentiates Sableye from Klefki who hates Taunt and wishes it could have it as well, and a STAB Foul Play does what it does best: denting physical attackers. Knock Off is also a viable alternative to Foul Play, having a nice 97 BP if hitting an item, and Sableye most likely isn't going to stay in to do more than one attack, with an added bonus of depriving an enemy from its item; Careful should be run instead of Calm in this instance. Night Shade is also another alternative if you desire a more consistent form of damage. Prankster Recover is also nice, allowing Sableye to get some much needed healing in before annoying your opponent some more and differentiating itself from Mega Banette, who would kill to have reliable recovery. Sableye's Ghost type allows it to switch into Fighting moves like ones from (Mega) Lucario and allows it to spinblock.

Other Options:
Keen Eye is now a viable alternative to Prankster if you fear Minimize Blissey... just kidding. There's not really much else Sableye can do reliably. Snarl is an option if you want to tank Special hits better, and Shadow Sneak is there for priority hits and to take out weakened enemies. Sableye gets Nasty Plot and Hone Claws, but a setup build is largely inferior due to Sableye's low stats.

Checks and Counters:
Strong Special Attackers and non WoW'd Physical Attackers put huge dents into Sableye, and now it must also watch out for the new Fairy attacks like Play Rough/Moonblast/Dazzling Gleam. Faster Prankster users with access to Taunt also shut down Sableye (though not Klefki, take that!). Unfortunately, while Sableye can Taunt Klefki, Klefki's naturally higher Base Speed means it will always be able to go first and do something before Sableye can shut it down. Sableye would have to put at least 200 Speed EVs to speed tie a neutral natured Klefki, which generally isn't worth it.

Personal Opinion:
Generally, I believe that the metagame was not very kind to Sableye. Prankster, its claim to fame, is now found on arguably better users: Klefki and Mega Banette. However, Sableye can Taunt and WoW unlike Klefki, and while Mega Banette can do both, it takes up a Mega slot. Sableye can be run with other Mega Pokemon that appreciate its burn and Taunt support. Funnily enough, Sableye and Klefki could definitely become nice partners, with each playing opposite roles in annoying/shutting down the enemy team. While it may not be definite OU material, the grinning gremlin will still find a home in any team that wants priority burns/taunts and the ability to spinblock.

 

[Zazazaki]

Sableye didn't really gained anythin much, so it should go to the old mon thread, I think.
That aside, the buff to WoW is pretty good, but that's all it got, also it lost it's niche as a pokemon without weaknesses. I think I will be usin the same spread I was usin in Gen 5 on that dude (who I really like, btw)

Sableye@Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Calm
252 HP/120 Def/136 SpD
-Taunt
-Will-o-Wisp
-Recover
-Foul Play/Knock Off

 

[perplexingpool]

Sableye hasn't really gained much this gen, but I think it will still be good in UU.

 

[MilkyWay]

I think sableye might have gained a touch, just because of WoW accuracy going up. The new fairy weakness isn't terribly bad considering sableye is frail anyways. And sableye (along with mega banette I think) is the only pokemon that can spin block and have a priority taunt to stop defog users, that's gotta count for something. The only real problem for sableye is that it got new competition in klefki and mega banette, however, mega banette takes up a mega slot and klefki can't use taunt or WoW, probably sableye's best moves so I think it still keeps its niche there.

 

[farranpoison]

I think sableye might have gained a touch, just because of WoW accuracy going up. The new fairy weakness isn't terribly bad considering sableye is frail anyways. And sableye (along with mega banette I think) is the only pokemon that can spin block and have a priority taunt to stop defog users, that's gotta count for something. The only real problem for sableye is that it got new competition in klefki and mega banette, however, mega banette takes up a mega slot and klefki can't use taunt or WoW, probably sableye's best moves so I think it still keeps its niche there.

This is the main reason why I even made the thread in the first place. I kinda wanted to see what people thought about Sableye in the face of its competitors, Klefki and MBanette, and if it was still a viable choice. I certainly do, but when am I the authority on anything?

 

[Plasma.EXE]

Priority burn and access to recover makes him deceptively bulky. He's still fairly good at crippling walls and preventing them from setting up (and knocking off items like leftovers, which klefki can't do).

 

[farranpoison]

So I feel like I should bump this thread seeing as there's been a lot of talk about Sableye as a Mega Kangaskhan counter/check... in the Kangaskhan thread. Feel free to discuss Sableye's viability in the new OU metagame, and whether or not it really does help against the new Physical threats.

 

[Shroomisaur]

So I feel like I should bump this thread seeing as there's been a lot of talk about Sableye as a Mega Kangaskhan counter/check... in the Kangaskhan thread.

Ugh. No kidding. ~_~

This is really Sableye's time to shine. It's another one of these Dark-types like Mandibuzz that only seemed nerfed on paper, but in practice the metagame has changed around it so much that it now has a huge niche. Obviously Sableye's is being the best of the few Mega Kangaskahn counters around, easily tanking a hit and neutering it with Prankster WoW.

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 121-144 (39.8 - 47.3%), Earthquake: (49.6 - 58.5%)

However, I have to admit my favorite thing about Sableye is Taunt. Prankster Taunt is simply amazing, it just craps on so many things right now combined with Recover. I know most people like Foul Play in the final slot for Sableye, but I run Night Shade. It's much more reliable against special attackers and defensive Pokemon in general, allowing Sableye to beat a wider range of foes.

 

[ColtCababa]

Sableye is one of the ultimate spinblockers. It can prevent opponents from using Rapid Spin and Defog with priority Taunt, and it doesn't take up a Mega slot, so it certainly has an important niche in OU. It also can't be as worn down as Klefki and Mega Banette with Will-O-Wisp and Recover under it's belt, so there's somewhat of a plus.

 

[Zalfi]

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 121-144 (39.8 - 47.3%), Earthquake: (49.6 - 58.5%)

This isn't even considering MegaKanga with a burn.

252+ Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Sableye: 169-201 (55.5 - 66.1%)
252+ Atk Parental Bond burned Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Sableye: 84-100 (27.6 - 32.8%)

Is the minimum Def investment needed to switch into Earthquake and live through a burned hit. Which Sableye can then recover off. This is also could be significant because it lets it do this:

252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Sableye: 251-296 (82.5 - 97.3%) (MixSlash)

Which at least lets you always switch into Aegislash and get off WoW.

 

[BSMEforme]

Also priority trick is amazing as well. I can't tell you how many times I've tricked an iron ball onto a non-mega gengar or rotom-W, it's hilarious. Although you probably won't be able to use both trick and taunt without running into 4MSS.

 

[Seth Vilo]

As can be seen by my avatar, Sableye is one of my favorites for the whole "Swiss Army Knife" aspect of its overall utility. With Mega Kanga taking OU by storm, my precious gem may finally make OU!

However, as sad as it is, I don't think that it's as good a counter as it could be; the preliminary analysis up currently lists the EV spread as Bold, 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 SpD. With that in mind, here are other Mega Kanga Calcs:

• 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 188+ Def Sableye: 160-190 (52.8 - 62.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 248 HP / 188+ Def Sableye: 129-153 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

• 252 (Jolly) Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 188+ Def Sableye: 147-174 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 48.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252 (Jolly) Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 248 HP / 188+ Def Sableye: 118-139 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  

So that's still mean to the little goblin. Yeah, it's still among the best counters, but still takes a whollop, especially from EQ before a burn. Doesn't at all limit it though in an overall sense. The presence of Defog helps it greatly, since that limits hazards damage it has to take, and the overall threat of it limits hazard-stacking teams in general from wasting time setting them up. I feel that it could partner well with Empoleon for this reason, since it can Defog and set up Rocks, as well as appreciates burns to augment it's respectable Special bulk. Sableye can also take on the Fighters that threaten the emperor (and Fighting-dominance will return I believe, once the "new-car-smell" of Fairies does down).
In years of OU since its release, Sableye has never let me down. I just bred a perfect one in game, so prepare yourselves world!!!

 

[farranpoison]

I find it funny that I posted this thread a few weeks ago, and the general response of people then was "eh, its ok I guess."

And then people started getting all ;_; about MKanga and here we are.

I know most people like Foul Play in the final slot for Sableye, but I run Night Shade. It's much more reliable against special attackers and defensive Pokemon in general, allowing Sableye to beat a wider range of foes.

I do think Night Shade is a nice option over Foul Play. However, if running it Sableye does sort of get walled by Normal types like... MKanga. At least Foul Play can damage anything.

What do people think about Knock Off? A viable replacement for Foul Play/Night Shade, or not worth the slot?

 

[MilkyWay]

For mega kangaskan, sableye may be walled when facing it, however, sableye's goal isn't to kill kangaskan but to cripple it. This can be done easily by will-o-wisp and the only attack the mega kangaskan commonly runs that can hit sableye at all is earthquake. With a burn on m-kangaskan, leftovers, and recover earthquake is meaningless and sableye can easily stall kangaskan out while it either switches or dies from burn.

 

[JustLetMePlay]

Personally I feel like Knock off is a better option than both Foul play and Nightshade. It's not like doing consistent damage is Sableye's main concern and the utility of knock off is amazing, SpDef heatran for instance is pretty much an entirely safe switch in on Sableye otherwise, but hates getting lefties knocked off. Knocking off Trevenant's Sitrus Berry is even better than burning it etc. etc.

 

[Shroomisaur]

I find it funny that I posted this thread a few weeks ago, and the general response of people then was "eh, its ok I guess."

And then people started getting all ;_; about MKanga and here we are.

Pretty much sums it up. Megakahn has become public enemy #1 lately.

I do think Night Shade is a nice option over Foul Play. However, if running it Sableye does sort of get walled by Normal types like... MKanga. At least Foul Play can damage anything.

What do people think about Knock Off? A viable replacement for Foul Play/Night Shade, or not worth the slot?

Well, you don't need Sableye to KO Kangaskahn. Sableye is immune to PuP, so once it's burned, the best Kanga can do is chip away with a pitifully weak EQ. Sableye easily stalls it out with Recover while Megakahn smolders to death :) The same goes for every other Normal-type, so unless you're very afraid of the dreaded Pyroar sweep, Night Shade is a great option.

Knock Off is absolutely viable on Sableye (just like anything else that gets it in XY, for that matter). The utility it provides is amazing because nothing likes losing an item, and as a bonus Sableye gets STAB and actually deals decent damage too.

 

[newtonja]

If anything, I have been seeing sableye so much more than last gen, probably because it is the only counter to mega kangaskhan

 

[silenced]

For Sableye's attacking move, it should be knock off. That + WoW + Taunt means no recovery whatsoever and you can sit back and enjoy your opponent's pokemon faint slowly and painfully.

Foul play is more for use in UU where nailing a fire type on the switch is a very good idea. Since OU only has heatran (doesn't really care about sableye) and gale wings talonflame, its not worth it.

Night shade should only ever be considered if substitute sweepers are a problem. It is really not a good move unless you are seriously impatient waiting for your taunted, burned opponent to faint.

 

[Zalfi]

I would assume Foul Play/Knock Off/Night Shade pretty much comes down to specific things your stronger at (Smashing specific threats/general annoyance/consistent damage). Though I am personally a fan of Foul Play.

Foul Play lets you beat up on SD Aegislash pretty hard
+2 0- Atk Sableye Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 266-314 (82 - 96.9%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb burned Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Sableye: 203-238 (66.7 - 78.2%)

Although I suppose no matter what you cripple it at worst so even if you go down in the process it may not matter. Foul Play also lets you always outright kill Aegislash in Blade form, which makes it a good counter to MixSlash.

Edit: Foul Play also makes it harder for Talonflame to switch into you, since it gets hit pretty hard and can't OHKO back without boosting, and if it tries to boost in front of you it either dies outright to Foul Play or (probably) dies from recoil.

 

[RowDog]

I personally find Knock Off to be his best option. I mean Sableye was a little bitch before, and can now be an even bigger bitch by getting rid of the opponents item, especially on a predicted switch. Taunt/WoW/KnockOff/Recover means that it can effectively be a pain to pretty much every Pokemon in the game.

I haven't found his new found Fairy weakness to be much of a problem though. It is stil only 1 weakness, and it is generally blatantly obvious to see when it is coming thanks to Fairy-type moves being rather limited in distribution and you can just switch out. Sableye's typing remains to be one of brilliance, and I find that his 3 immunities is a big factor to why I am using, giving him a lot of opportunities to switch in and being a great friend to stall.

Sableye has a lot of things going for him over other Prankster users, just depends on what you need considering Sableye and Klefki have almost entirely different functions.

 

[Double Electric]

Sableye needs Foul Play this gen more than ever. Talonflame is easily one of the most common switch-ins to Sableye--however, it loses over half its health just switching into Foul Play. This is a huge deal, because Talonflame's existence on the other team limits your ability to spam Will-o-wisp, and many opponents will take advantage of this. Foul Play is also very useful against say, Aegislash and it lets Sableye handle Mega-Khangaskhan reliably (Even if it tries to be tricky by using Scrappy to gain PuP boosts, it's just digging its own grave by boosting Sableye's "attack").

252 HP/252 Def+ is the way to go this gen. The real reason why most people are using Sableye is to be able to switch into Khangaskhan, and it can't do that reliably with a balanced spread. Furthermore, Sableye can literally spinblock Excadrill with that spread (which not even Gengar and Aegislash are capable of), and it can survive Talonflame's Brave Bird, allowing it to finish Talonflame off with Foul play if Sableye has enough health left to tank the hit. Sableye is geared toward handling physical attackers, and Foul Play fits right in with that niche.

252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 138-163 (45.3 - 53.6%)
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 151-178 (49.6 - 58.5%) - Note that Khangaskhan gets burned if it tries to stay in. Jolly is more viable and more common than Adamant as well, so it's more than likely that Earthquake won't 2HKO either, even if Will-o-wisp misses. Foul Play easily 2HKO's Kanga in return.

252 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 145-172 (47.6 - 56.5%)
252+ Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 160-189 (52.6 - 62.1%) - It helps that Air Balloon Jolly Excadrill is the most viable and common version, but Adamant is still doable depending on how healthy your Sableye is. If Excadrill tries to stay in for the 2HKO, it gets burned and Sableye can recover its health back.

252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 135-160 (44.4 - 52.6%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 175-208 (57.5 - 68.4%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 204-240 (67.1 - 78.9%) - Talonflame is a very common Sableye switch-in, but if Talonflame lacks Will-o-wisp, Sableye can either stay in and go for the finisher with Foul Play and just use clever switching to recover your health later in the match.

The fairy weakness is still significant, honestly. Espeon for example, loves running Dazzling Gleam these days. In the old gens, BP teams would often use Stored Power Espeon as their final sweeper, with Hidden Power Fighting as the coverage move. Well, now they tend to run a fairy attack, which means Espeon can KO Sableye now instead of being blocked by it. Alakazam is in a similar position.

 

[Jojobobo]

I prefer Foul Play to Knock Off, in general I'd rather Trick or Switcheroo an item onto a different pokemon than knock it's item off, plus Knock Off is going to be almost useless against a lot mega evos. Also Foul Play has great synergy with WoW; usually you burn a physical sweeper on turn one and tank their hit, then most players try to overcome the burn by setting up with something like swords dance at which point you recover, in the third turn you take another hit (or maybe you don't if they're getting greedy with their set up move) and you finish them off with their own boosted attack (unmodified by their burn) using Foul Play. Of course really skilled players won't fall for this, however quite a lot of people do as it requires your opponent to think counter-intuitively (i.e. boosting attack is a bad thing).

I've found Sableye checks a lot of physical threats as you'd expect, it even does a number on Talonflame with a few defense EVs as between it's own recoil and Foul Play you can kill it in a single turn if Sableye is on full health. Compared to Klefki it packs Taunt, which is extremely useful, it also has a strategy that doesn't rely so much on random chance (I'm talking about the Foul Play/Sub/ThunderWave/Swagger set which occupies a similar niche to Sableye). Compared to Mega Banette it has nice recovery, between leftovers and priority Recover it can stall pokemon out through burn damage.

EDIT: What Double Electric said but worse.

 

[Dude Bro 420]

Just wanted to pop in and say that if you're looking for a reliable counter to MGengar, MKanga, Aegislash, physical sweepers, many stall Pokemon and almost every lead, Sableye is your answer.

The little troll is a monster this generation.

 

[Mishy]

This little monster has been terror for my MKanga.
I usually get the kill on him but he leaves my mega severly crippled.

It is the strongest counter I have met so far.

 

[Shroomisaur]

Just wanted to pop in and say that if you're looking for a reliable counter to MGengar, MKanga, Aegislash, physical sweepers, many stall Pokemon and almost every lead, Sableye is your answer.

The little troll is a monster this generation.

A counter to many things, yes he is. However Sableye is definitely not a counter to Mega Gengar, as it is takes up to 75% from Shadow Ball before it can 2HKO in return. Sableye also can't switch into special/mixed Aegislash (the most threatening set), although it easily defeats SD versions.

I really can't emphasize enough how useful Prankster Taunt is. Sableye is capable of destroying stall and ruining entire teams. In fact, I had Sableye defeat a Rotom-W/MegaLuke/Garchomp/Forretress core single-handedly today. WoW and Taunt work so well combined with Recover.