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Why would you switch medicham in on absol when bastiodon flat out walls it? Bastiodon take every single move from absol with ease, can set-up a sub as gallade comes in, counter the cc then use medicham to 1HKO both with HJK as gallade will be weakened with the counter. Absol sucker punch doesn't 1HKO due to the HP investment, so if absol leads the core can't lose at all.
Silvershadow234 nails it. Nowhere have i mentioned that i switch med in when absol is on the field. That is pointless and, like you said, every semi competent player knows this. Please point out where i've mentioned that i switch med in when absol's in the field. The line you've quoted, in that, what i meant was if the opponent leads with absol, and i lead with med, i will always have the upperhand.
You said that you would always lead with Medicham. But besides that, absol does 25% to bastiodon, breakin it's sub and your core not working, as I mentioned earlier. Just a couple more Eva's into special defense would make the core work.
You said that you would always lead with Medicham. But besides that, absol does 25% to bastiodon, breakin it's sub and your core not working, as I mentioned earlier. Just a couple more Eva's into special defense would make the core work.
According to the honko calculator, 4 SpA fire blast life orb vs 252 HP/ 4 SpDef Bastiodon does 68-81 damage. Max HP for Bastiodon is 324. 81/324=25% according to my math.
So, like I said in my edit, Swamp-Rocket is right and I calced with -1 Gallade. I was testing something that failed horribly with Intimidate right beforehand and forgot to reset, so my core doesn't actually work.
Shuckleking assuming that it is capable of breaking its sub do you understand how miniscule the odds are of Absol max rolling its Fire Blast not just once but potentially 4 or 5 times in a row? Once you get to the third attack you're talking about that happening 2 times every 100,000 scenarios.
Furthermore, you keep claiming that Medicham is switching in on Absol, taking a Night Slash and a Sucker Punch and dying. Then you contradict yourself with
You said that you would always lead with Medicham.
He leads with Medicham, no damage incurred. Medicham outspeeds due to Scarf and OHKOs, thus making it impossible for him to take two attacks from Absol.
He isn't switching in Medicham into of Absol because its a mathematical improbability that Absol can ever beat Bastiodon. Miniscule odds of hitting 6 Fire Blasts (Protect) for max damage (1/13^6 power judging by the damage number you provided) on top of the odds of hitting all of those Fire Blasts (0.85^6). His core counters the mons provided.
Shuckleking assuming that it is capable of breaking its sub do you understand how miniscule the odds are of Absol max rolling its Fire Blast not just once but potentially 4 or 5 times in a row? Once you get to the third attack you're talking about that happening 2 times every 100,000 scenarios.
Yes, I completely agree, and your math is technically wrong, as fire blast has a 15% chance to miss each one, so by the 3rd attack it's 3 times every 20,000 (your example it's 10,000 not 100,000). So you are saying that this could not happen? It Could. Yes, I know it's about impossible to happen. But look at the kadabra and altaria/torterra example. There is 0% chance that kadabra dies if it uses HP Ice. For the given example, it's practically a 0% chance to happen. But if it's not a guarantee, then what is the percent error that is allowed to occur for the example to still hold true?
Furthermore, you keep claiming that Medicham is switching in on Absol, taking a Night Slash and a Sucker Punch and dying. Then you contradict yourself with
He leads with Medicham, no damage incurred. Medicham outspeeds due to Scarf and OHKOs, thus making it impossible for him to take two attacks from Absol.
I thought the purpose was that one of your pokes had to switch into the core and take a hit before the scenario began, like in the given example, kadabra had to switch into an attack that would bring it to its focus sash. Medicham could come into absol while it's night slashing, then sucker punch to kill. If the scenario is to have either poke on the field before the opponent attacks, then medicham works. But i thought this was't true as the example of sceptile not switching onto moltres means that an attack by the opponent happens first. And I'm not contradicting myself at all based on how I thought the process worked. Contradicting would be giving the whole example and then saying that bastiodon always come in first, which I did not do and do not appreciate that claim.
He isn't switching in Medicham into of Absol because its a mathematical improbability that Absol can ever beat Bastiodon. Miniscule odds of hitting 6 Fire Blasts (Protect) for max damage (1/13^6 power judging by the damage number you provided) on top of the odds of hitting all of those Fire Blasts (0.85^6). His core counters the mons provided.
The damage formula gives 16 values, though some of those values can be the same, so it's 1/16^6. Assuming best case scenario, player predicts protect and uses thunderbolt to preserve pp. But besides that, I know the core prett much almost always works, I would just like to know the lee-way percentage for future use.
Silvershadow234 nails it. Nowhere have i mentioned that i switch med in when absol is on the field. That is pointless and, like you said, every semi competent player knows this. Please point out where i've mentioned that i switch med in when absol's in the field. The line you've quoted, in that, what i meant was if the opponent leads with absol, and i lead with med, i will always have the upperhand.
Even with what you said, you still lose because when you switch Bastiodon in on Absol, he can simply Fire Blast you to break Sturdy, and then switch to Gallade as you sub and kill you with a double Close Combat, whilst Counter or Toxic can't do much back, afterwhich you Giga Impact to kill him with Medicham, Absol switches in and Night Slash + Sucker Punch to kill.
Even with what you said, you still lose because when you switch Bastiodon in on Absol, he can simply Fire Blast you to break Sturdy, and then switch to Gallade as you sub and kill you with a double Close Combat, whilst Counter or Toxic can't do much back, afterwhich you Giga Impact to kill him with Medicham, Absol switches in and Night Slash + Sucker Punch to kill.
Switch into Gallade / Absol take a hit. Take a hit another time, fully restore your HP with Rest. In third turn use WoW and cripple one mon. Finally proceed to continuously resting you until they will die. Even considering Thunderbolt / Fire Blast from Absol cant 3HKOed you at all, and for this reason isnt a problem. Also you can PP stall out Fire Blast and Stone Edge thanks to Pressure, that makes much more easy to win for Spiritomb. Even if the opponent switch out when you are resting an the other mon isnt burn, you have a 50% of use Will-o-Wisp with Sleep Talk.
Turn 1: you switch in and Gallade attacks you
Turn 2: you take another hit and restore your HP.
Turn 3: you take a third hit and burn Gallade.
Turn 4 (or whatever turn it is, you will have to eventually): you Rest and Gallade switches to Absol
Turn 5: Absol uses Night Slash and you Sleep Talk, Absol has a 50% chance to be burnt, which is the same as the odds of hitting with DynamicPunch (I might be wrong but those odds don't seem good enough to me)
Turn 6: Absol uses Night Slash; now, even if you successfully burn it, you're still KOed by a third Night Slash
Turn 7: Absol Night Slashes and you die
The minimum defensive EVs and IVs ensure even the resisted hits bring Simipour down to Torrent, so that Moltres won't have a coinflip's chance at surviving. In the event of U-Turn, Low Kick or Aqua Tail, simply Sub down to Torrent and you're in the clear.
What are the chances of Moltres's Hurricane ruining things? Let's see, 70% (Hurricane hitting) * 30% (Confusion chance) * 50% (self-hit) = 10.5%. Nearly a 90% success rate? I'm golden, and that's if Moltres is in, not Aggron.
Cinccino@Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
Nature: +SpAtk, -SpDef
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd
~Rock Blast
~Hidden Power Fighting
~Tail Slap
~Bullet Seed
Really not much needs to be said. Cinccino can switch in on anything because of Focus Sash and OHKOes both. Even with a neutral nature, Cinccino reaches 329 Speed, easily outpacing Moltres's 306.
0Atk Cinccino (Neutral) Rock Blast vs 0HP/4Def Moltres (Neutral): 118% - 143% (380 - 460 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
252SpAtk Cinccino (+SAtk) Hidden Power (Fighting) vs 116HP/0SpDef Aggron (Neutral): 104% - 123% (324 - 384 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
Wow this one looks hard x_x, but i think i have a core that can do the job! U-turn could be annoying at times but i think this core can take out Aggron+Moltres regardless.
Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Waterfall
- Circle Throw
Regirock @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave
Regirock can come in on Moltres's Flamethrower and Hurricane with relative ease, only having a small chance of being 3HKO'd by Hurricane with Stealth Rock up (and thats assuming Hurricane always hits!). Meanwhile Regirock can either simply OHKO Moltres with Rock Slide/Paralyze Moltres with twave or set up Stealth Rock as the opponent switches in Aggron, drastically cutting Moltres's life span. If the opponent does the latter, Poliwrath can switch in on Aggron pretty easily, only taking 40% maximum from Head Smash while posing an immediate threat in return with Circle Throw and Waterfall. An Impish Nature is used over Relaxed here to make sure Poliwrath can outrun any Aggron with the ev spread listed, making it slightly easier for Poliwrath+Regirock to counter the core. As an added bonus, both Pokemon can deter the Pokemon it doesnt immediately counter from switching in. With Regirock being able to paralyze Aggron or hit it with an Earthquake on the switch and Poliwrath hitting Moltres with a Waterfall and/or circle throwing it when it comes in, possibly racking up Stealth Rock damage and forcing Aggron to switch back into Poliwrath.
252 SpA Choice Specs Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Regirock: 102-121 (28.02 - 33.24%) -- possible 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Moltres Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Regirock: 81-96 (22.25 - 26.37%) -- possible 5HKO
0- Atk Moltres U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 25-30 (6.86 - 8.24%) -- 9HKO at best
252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 133-157 (34.63 - 40.88%) -- 61.89% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 119-141 (30.98 - 36.71%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 106-126 (27.6 - 32.81%) -- possible 4HKO
Poliwrath is immune to Aqua Tail.
4 Atk Regirock Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Moltres: 352-420 (109.65 - 130.84%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Regirock Earthquake vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 176-208 (56.77 - 67.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Poliwrath Circle Throw vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 136-168 (43.87 - 54.19%) -- 87.89% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Poliwrath Waterfall vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 90-108 (29.03 - 34.83%) -- 66.06% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Poliwrath Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Moltres: 164-194 (51.09 - 60.43%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Oh, i forgot to uncheck stealth rock when making all those calcs haha, i was doing some damage calcs earlier and had Stealth Rock checked off for them, i'll edit in calcs w/o Stealth Rock now. I didnt remove Stealth Rock from the calcs where Regirock and Poliwrath are attacking, though. As Regirock can set up its own Stealth Rock for the core.
Alright, already foresaw this, but you have to hit 2 Hustled moves in a row. To connect an 80% accurate Superpower and a 72% accurate Rock Slide, your odds are 57.6%. Is that good enough to be considered a counter? This is not considering the fact that if you were completely predictable and the opponent switches to Moltres into 2 of your Superpowers, rendering your -2 Superpower unable to KO Aggron even after 2 Rock Slides, the latter being weakened by your 1st Superpower...assuming they all hit.
Primeape with Focus Sash can come in on any of the core's moves, survive and proceed to OHKO each of them with Close Combat or Stone Edge.
If the core decides to play switching games, Moltres is still OHKO'd by Rock Slide after it takes a Close Combat, to ensure that Stone Miss doesn't get haxed up. Similarly, Brick Break OHKOs Aggron after it takes 2 Stone Edges, but its only real use is to save PP.
Anger Point gives me a lovely +6 Attack boost if a crit happens although it won't matter anyway.
252 Atk Primeape Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Moltres: 408-484 (127.1 - 150.77%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Primeape Close Combat vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 408-480 (131.61 - 154.83%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Primeape Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Moltres: 308-364 (95.95 - 113.39%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Primeape Brick Break vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 256-304 (82.58 - 98.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Like Punchshroom said, there's only a 10.5% chance of me hitting myself in confusion, so.
Alright, already foresaw this, but you have to hit 2 Hustled moves in a row. To connect an 80% accurate Superpower and a 72% accurate Rock Slide, your odds are 57.6%. Is that good enough to be considered a counter? This is not considering the fact that if you were completely predictable and the opponent switches to Moltres into 2 of your Superpowers, rendering your -2 Superpower unable to KO Aggron even after 2 Rock Slides, the latter being weakened by your 1st Superpower...assuming they all hit.
You can only post 1 set of counter(s) per core, even if your core has been proven wrong! (Don't modify your post after being proved wrong, we'll catch you). You can prove other people wrong multiple times per round. A same pokemon cannot be used by two users! First one to post a pokemon is the only one to have the rights to use it during that round. However, if you don't have time to post now, you can reserve a maximum of 2 pokemon per round by posting so before they have been used.
With the given EVs, Omastar can survive a Head Smash and Hurricane from Aggron and Moltres, reach 205 (307 after the scarf) speed (Timid Moltres clocks in at 306, what a slowpoke), and OHKO both of them with Hydro Pump. Rest of the moves are filler, although it is worth noting Omastar cannot actually always OHKO Moltres with Surf due to not being that strong.
252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Head Smash vs. 56 HP / 216 Def Omastar: 249-294 (84.4 - 99.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Earthquake does less than Head Smash due to STAB)
252 SpA Choice Specs Moltres Hurricane vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Omastar: 191-225 (64.74 - 76.27%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
72 SpA Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Aggron: 470-554 (151.61 - 178.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
72 SpA Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 356-420 (110.9 - 130.84%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I hope Hydro Pump isn't "too inaccurate" or something - I consider hitting 2 Hydro Pumps (64%) a good enough chance. This is especially considering Hurricane has a 30% chance to miss, therefore making Omastar often win with Surf only. This is for anyone who may think this isn't reliable enough :)
Just because it bothers the hell out of me, Swamp-Rocket, your Omastar's EVs are inefficient; a spread of 56 HP / 96 Def / 120 SpA / 236 Spe and a Bold nature yields the same bulk (actually slightly higher due to a jump point) and Speed, but with more EVs to invest in SpA. Not like it really affects anything, since Surf still only has about a 50-50 shot at OHKOing Moltres even with the added SpA, but I couldn't not mention it, if that makes any sense :x
Also, since I don't wanna make a basically irrelevant post, I'll go with this:
Basculin @ Focus Sash
Trait: Adaptability
EVs: 192 Spd / 200 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Tail
- Surf
Basculin switches in, takes any singular hit from either Aggron or Moltres thanks to Focus Sash and OHKOs each with the appropriate move. Barring Aqua Tail misses, Hurricane confusion, and Fire Blast burns (all being unlikely), Basculin consistently wins ^_^
Relevant Calcs: 200 Atk Adaptability Basculin Aqua Tail vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Moltres: 324-384 (100.93 - 119.62%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0- SpA Adaptability Basculin Surf vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Aggron: 312-368 (100.64 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It is interesting to note that Moltres's Hurricane hax automatically knocks off 10.5% off your guaranteed success rate with your 1-pokemon counter: this means any single pokemon counter using inaccurate moves have to tread very carefully. For example, Swamp-Rocket has a 53.5% (64-10.5) chance of connecting 2 Hydro Pumps in a row and dodging Hurricane hax on the switch; NfskMjmMal in fact has now than a less than 50% (47.6% to be exact) of beating the core if pitted against Moltres first. Hell, even melvni's Cincinno can miss the Rock Blast should it not smack itself, though it's still a respectable 74.5% of success.