RU CCAT (STEP 4 - PLAYTESTING)

[Lady Shinki]

No big, it just means we need a dedicated counter to prevent a counter-sweep by Medicham (arguably the only threatening thing that can beat a set-up Rhydon that we lose to with Adamant), since we might not be able to guarantee Rotom being alive in the mid/late-game.

Offensive partners:
Scyther (speed+coverage, CB would work nicely to throw out U-turns)
Rampardos (niche coverage to beat specific walls, general stallbreaking power without SD)
Bouffalant (defensive switch into almost all grass types if Rhydon is forced to SD instead of RP, can tank an unboosted hit and respond, good switch-in for Tangrowth and has Megahorn for the bulky psychics Claydol and Uxie)
SunnyBeam Entei (don't laugh this one out. Sets up weather, fries bulky waters with SolarBeam, fries physical walls with boosted Fire Blast, can carry Stone Edge for other Entei and will outspeed standard variants by being able to run a +Spe nature)
SubRoost Krow (can muscle through Tangrowth/Gallade and have priority to handle scarfed threats, Moxie allows it to be a backup physical sweeper if Rhydon fails to do the job)
Rotom-N (covers Medicham, BU Gallade, and spinblocks to keep hazards up while being offensive, can also run Volt Switch and SubSplit)


Defensive partners:
Qwilfish (nasty shared ground weakness and only neutral to grass but is an extremely bulky spiker, also has tspikes and twave and priority)
Roselia (spiker that has better type synergy but folds to physical attacks, is also a good switch-in opportunity for Entei/Typhlosion/Zard)
Mismagius (bulky spinblock, can spread residual damage and perhaps perish trap a troublesome wall)
Drifblim (again, don't laugh this one off. spinblock, then sub+stockpile and pass to Rhydon who can then accumulate multiple boosts with the extra provided bulk or the free turn provided by Substitute)
Slowking (can provide twave support, sponge special attacks, and cover ferroseed/tangrowth with fire blast)

Just my first ideas. Good cases can be made for a LOT of pokemon here. I bolded the ones that I think might be particularly useful, but yeah...

 

[col49]

I would definitely second the use of Roselia, it's access to Spikes and Aromatherapy, combined with it's Water and Grass resists make it an excellent partner for him. Also, Uxie could always be used to set screens, supply a source of SR and keep momentum via U-Turn. On an offensive front, Rotom makes a strong offensive or defensive spinblocker who is also capable of maintaining momentum via Volt Change. Another idea if Roselia doesn't seem ideal would be QD Liligant, who can dispatch common counters to Rhydon (Dusknoir, Quagsire and such) without much trouble, in addition to supplying limited cleric support. Bu that's solely my two cents on the matter.

 

[Ewil]

I've tried to make a team that works with rhydon, but the final result is that it was a simple stall team with rhydon as the main sweeper.
The team was:

-Rhydon(you know the set)

-Roselia(special wall spikes/rest/sludge bomb/leaf storm) he deal 55%~ to Honch on the switch with sludge bomb and place spikes very easly

-Rotom(sub/painspilt/SB/TB) good to use, but a bit frail

-Ferrothorn(SR/protect/leech/gyro) good for spikes and can be annoying with gyro & leech+protect combo but he's setup foler for a lot of sweepers

-Gligar(Sub/roost/Eq/Toxic) not bad to wall the non-mixed variant of honch and Medicham

-Scolipede (sash lead T-spike/megahorn/rock slide/Eq) very useful lead, can t-spikes very quickly, i recomand this if you want a t-spiker.

This team needs more offensive pivot and maybe a spinner, but for the rest is ok (we need to create a damn good team instead xD but that's my impression about some teammates)

Scyther on the other hand, can be a really good sweeper CBU-turn spammer.

 

[Vratix]

I think a spin/block pair of qwilfish/misdreavus and type closure with QD Lilligant sounds like a good core behind le Don

 

[Ewil]

Now that we know the set and the strategy, why don't we discuss & vote any single member of the team instead of talking of the whole team ?
for know we have (for sure):

-Rhydon
-A Spiker
-A spin blocker
-A spinner

for now we can decide and vote the others two mons needed for the team (special/physical wall/sweeper, etc)

just my two cents for making order

 

[Pearl]

We should use Qwilfish as a Spiker as I wrote before:

Even though I love extra speed on most stuff, I think that Adamant Rhydon is the way to go, because even with a Jolly Nature, we'd still miss Accelgor, and the other Pokemon we miss with Adamant, beside Sceptile, can't do too much back to Rhydon (lol Swellow). As a Spikes user, Intimidate Qwilfish, IMO, is the way to go, with a set of Spikes / Thunder Wave / Waterfall / Poison Jab and a bulky EV spread. Even though we have Rock Polish on our Rhydon, there will be times when we just can't use it, or using Swords Dance will be the best thing to do (mostly for a certain threat, such as Cofagrigus), and in those times, a bit of paralysis spreading may come in handy. It can also work as a Swords Dance Sceptile check, the common sweeper in RU ATM (for reference, a +1 Earthquake from an Adamant Sceptile with a Flying Gem, does 70.1% - 82.6% to a Qwilfish with 252/252 HP/Defense EVs and an Impish nature).

Beside that, I think something like Moltres or even Entei to absorb Will-O-Wisp and benefit from Rhydon's Thunder Wave immunity would be pretty cool. They could also work as a lure to Bulky Waters, even though there aren't really much (the ones that are available can be pretty hard for Rhydon to take down though, like Alomomola).

 

[gali]

I'm gonna suggest Linoone.
Linoone @ Silk Scarf/Leftovers
Adamant
128 HP, 252 Atk, 128 Spe
-Substitute
-Belly Drum
-Extremespeed
-Seed Bomb

This guy is amazing, especially under screens. With screens, he can set up a sub and survive a hit with it still intact, then Belly Drum and begin spamming Extremespeed and taking out a large part of the other team. I chose Seed Bomb over Shadow claw because it allows him to break through Steelix, Aggron, and to a lesser extent, Regirock.

 

[Ewil]

I'm gonna suggest Linoone.
Linoone @ Silk Scarf/Leftovers
Adamant
128 HP, 252 Atk, 128 Spe
-Substitute
-Belly Drum
-Extremespeed
-Seed Bomb

This guy is amazing, especially under screens. With screens, he can set up a sub and survive a hit with it still intact, then Belly Drum and begin spamming Extremespeed and taking out a large part of the other team. I chose Seed Bomb over Shadow claw because it allows him to break through Steelix, Aggron, and to a lesser extent, Regirock.

Faced one, he's pretty good but a decent physical wall can take 2 hits and KO the rest of his 50% life.

I think a spin/block pair of qwilfish/misdreavus and type closure with QD Lilligant sounds like a good core behind le Don

Tested & confirm this. What can be a good Misdreavus set ? I'm trying Will-o/confuse ray/pain split/heal bell.

and for Qwilfish i suggest a set of Spikes | Haze | Taunt/Waterfall | Taunt/Poison Jab. Haze is really usefull against things like BU Gallade.

 

[Axmaster68]

At this point, I think we need to have a team of this, just input members you think might work:

-Rhydon
-Spiker
-Spinblocker
-Spinner
-Sweeper
-Bulky Sweeper

 

[No Luck Involved]

Gallade could really work well with Rhydon. Gallade is only really threatened by Krow, Scyther and Archeops while Rhydon eats them up easily. Gallade also has nice special bulk to take weak grass or water attacks and it is one of the best wall breakers in the tier no matter what set it uses. Anybody think BU Gallade + Double Dance Rhydon could work? Just need a cleaner to complement them now, wanna try Scarf Braviary anyone? They have good synergy offensively and defensively and it'll please a lot more people!

My favourite playstyle has always been bulky offense so naturally I would fit a 3 Pokemon defensive core around them ie spinner, hazards and walls to fall back on. I think we're on the right track anyway!

 

[gali]

Faced one, he's pretty good but a decent physical wall can take 2 hits and KO the rest of his 50% life.

What wall? Steelix and Aggron won't likea neutral hit at 1048 Attack, and even with Evolite, Rhydon won't be taking a 4x effective Seed Bomb well at all. Ferroseed is a decent check, but can't really do much of anything to Linoone. He has only one true counter, Klinklang.

 

[Ewil]

My favourite playstyle has always been bulky offense so naturally I would fit a 3 Pokemon defensive core around them ie spinner, hazards and walls to fall back on. I think we're on the right track anyway!

Agree with this, i like bulky offense too and i think this is the way to go

@Toa: i wall him with Ferroseed and another time with gligar (i crit with the earthQ, but he was under 36% of health didn't know if matters). I'm a little dubious of him 'coz is a one-time-use sweeper most of the time and, like i say above, i think we need a more bulky offense oriented team with spike support for letting Rhydon shine.

 

[marilli]

-Roselia(special wall spikes/rest/sludge bomb/leaf storm) he deal 55%~ to Honch on the switch with sludge bomb and place spikes very easly

I'm going to pick on this because this is the latest post on Roselia, and I don't wanna flip to last page to find another example. How are you guys getting Leaf Storm + Spikes on your Roselia? I know that my PO is ridiculously old, so it might be a database error on my version, but mine doesn't allow Leaf Storm + Spikes.

IRL is kinda screwing me, so I didn't get much chance to put my team into practice. But I got a chance to play a bit today, and I was reminded of the Darmanitan + Roserade + Rhyperior core article on the Smog. I think Scarf Moltres fits the role of Darmanitan here perfectly (strong Fire-type with U-turn) and because Spikes is illegal with Sleep Powder (which I'm very certain about) and Leaf Storm (which i'm iffy about), I decided to just use an offensive Roselia and pick another Spiker later. And I'm surprised at how effective it is: theoretically, Grass/Poison come in dime a dozen and it's really outclassed, but Sleep is good, Leaf Storm is brilliant, and Natural Cured Rest and natural special bulk makes up for a decent package. Threat of Spikes allow you to easily sleep Fire-types and switch in Rhydon.

edit: Also, SubSplit Rotom is really really really good.

 

[Ewil]

Mmmh, yeah you're right, leaf storm is illegal with this set, i mistaken giga drain with LS, probably coz i can't remember which one is illegal with and i'm too lazy to see in the team builder lol sorry for the mistake

 

[Vratix]

Tested & confirm this. What can be a good Misdreavus set ? I'm trying Will-o/confuse ray/pain split/heal bell.

I've had a lot of success with
Misdreavus@Eviolite
Nature: Bold
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Def / 136 SDef
-Pain Split
-Shadow Ball
-Will o Wisp
-Thunder Wave

The rationale for not having full HP investment is to get more return out of Pain Split. The EV spread lets you get 360 in both defenses with Eviolite. As a gauging factor for this; Misdreavus takes less than 50% from Timid-Scarf Typhlosion's Eruption. (Not a lot less but enough to live another T-wave and then pain split)

and for Qwilfish i suggest a set of Spikes | Haze | Taunt/Waterfall | Taunt/Poison Jab. Haze is really usefull against things like BU Gallade.

Haze is a good option that I overlooked. At the very least let's slash it in for now.

Gallade huh? You know a fighting type wouldn't go amiss partnering Rhydon. Gallade could work. Two set-up physical sweepers might be redundant but it has worked for some people. I like the idea of scarf-medicham a lot too. he's got some real oomph behind his hits and knows how to get in and out in a hurry.


Anyway, I'm not certain this team actually needing a spinner if we go with qwilfish. And I'm liking the Medicham partner idea too. As long as we don't decide that Moltres is something we have to have and keep adding things that are Resitant/Nuetral to SR do we even need a spinner?

 

[Ewil]

I've had a lot of success with
Misdreavus@Eviolite
Nature: Bold
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Def / 136 SDef
-Pain Split
-Shadow Ball
-Will o Wisp
-Thunder Wave

The rationale for not having full HP investment is to get more return out of Pain Split. The EV spread lets you get 360 in both defenses with Eviolite. As a gauging factor for this; Misdreavus takes less than 50% from Timid-Scarf Typhlosion's Eruption. (Not a lot less but enough to live another T-wave and then pain split)


Haze is a good option that I overlooked. At the very least let's slash it in for now.

Gallade huh? You know a fighting type wouldn't go amiss partnering Rhydon. Gallade could work. Two set-up physical sweepers might be redundant but it has worked for some people. I like the idea of scarf-medicham a lot too. he's got some real oomph behind his hits and knows how to get in and out in a hurry.


Anyway, I'm not certain this team actually needing a spinner if we go with qwilfish. And I'm liking the Medicham partner idea too. As long as we don't decide that Moltres is something we have to have and keep adding things that are Resitant/Nuetral to SR do we even need a spinner?

@misdreavus set: if we decide to go with only spikes and SR (no t-spikes) that set looks awesome, if we decide to use even t-spikes i suggest Heal bell over T-wave or will-o 'coz most of the pokes that switch in got posioned and heal bell is a nice utility.

@the spinner thing: With the new team that i've played (Rhy/Lilli/qw/misdre/clay/scoli) clay results useful most for setup rock over spinning away hazards, coz the opponent didn't have time to setup them.

 

[Molk]

i'd have to say running 252hp is always the best choice,(except on pokes such as wailord, hariyama) the extra bulk is really required. Now there aretwo other sets i was thinking of.

subsplit (probably outclassed by Rotom-N but the extra bulk offered by eviolite may be nice)

and Substitute+nasty plot (standard mismagius set in Gen 4)

with misdreavus's resistances and immunities, it may be able to run LO over eviolite on both these sets. the Sub+Nasty Plot set would probably look like this.

[SET]
set name: Sub+NP
move1: Substitute
move2: Nasty Plot
move3: Shadow Ball
move4: Thunderbolt/HP fighting
nature: Timid/Modest
item: Life Orb/Eviolite
Evs: 252spatk 4spdef 252spe

with this set, you use misdreavus's many immunities to force a switch, now you set up a sub and go for the Nasty Plot. Afterwards, it depens on the item, if you are running LO you can start attacking if you want, Shadow ball would end up being pretty powerful afterwards.

Calcs

+2 LO misdreavus Shadow Ball vs standard bulk up Gallade (101.48% - 119.88%)
(1HKO)

+2 LO misdreavus Hidden power vs Standard munchlax (37.30% - 44.04%)
(low chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of spikes)

+2 LO misdreavus Thunderbolt Vs Mandibuzz (71.23% - 83.96%)
(High Chance to OHKO after SR)

these are three of the most specially bulky pokemon in the tier, After a Boost with LO misdreavus can OHKO/2HKO 2 out of the three without hazard support. will provide more calculations if needed.

Just saying, this is a very good offensive spinblocker and sets itself apart from rotom with access to Nasty plot.

 

[Vratix]

not to harsh your buzz too much:

252 +2 SpAtk Life Orb Misdreavus Shadow Ball vs 252 HP/104 SpDef Eviolite Ferroseed: 26.71% - 31.51%
4 hits to KO

0 Atk Ferroseed Gyro Ball vs 0 HP/0 Def Misdreavus: 47.51% - 56.32%
2-3 hits to KO
(guaranteed 2 with LO recoil)



As far as max HP vs max Def (on split defenses Misdreavus) the difference in damage is approximately 1.3% less of total health in favor of max HP (I ran the calcs against scarf typhlosion using eruption but it doesn't matter in the slightest what you use if you want to check me).

However the difference you recover with pain split is usually about 3% more of total health in favor of max Def (split defenses). As far as I'm concerned the difference is more relevant to whether you want to play with a slightly more offensive style or a style that is slightly better for stalling.

 

[Molk]

not to harsh your buzz too much:

252 +2 SpAtk Life Orb Misdreavus Shadow Ball vs 252 HP/104 SpDef Eviolite Ferroseed: 26.71% - 31.51%
4 hits to KO

0 Atk Ferroseed Gyro Ball vs 0 HP/0 Def Misdreavus: 47.51% - 56.32%
2-3 hits to KO
(guaranteed 2 with LO recoil)



As far as max HP vs max Def (on split defenses Misdreavus) the difference in damage is approximately 1.3% less of total health in favor of max HP (I ran the calcs against scarf typhlosion using eruption but it doesn't matter in the slightest what you use if you want to check me).

However the difference you recover with pain split is usually about 3% more of total health in favor of max Def (split defenses). As far as I'm concerned the difference is more relevant to whether you want to play with a slightly more offensive style or a style that is slightly better for stalling.

About Ferroseed thats why Hp fighting is an option, it will do plenty to ferroseed, Misdreavus still makes gret offensive spinner imo, and ferroseed is much rarer now anyways (havent seen one since the ladder reset).

 

[Twannes]

-Rhydon

-Spiker = Qwilfish, for reasons stated in realier posts

-Spinblocker = Misdrevaus or the optional CM Cofagrigus (sets up on most physical mons)

-Spinner = hmm tough one. claydol is too common and shares weaks with spinblocker. not sure about this one. . . yet.

-Sweeper = QD lilligant then, has good type coverage. Or we could use a scarfer here like Braviary, seeing as we already have a spinner.

-Bulky Sweeper = sth like BU gallade huh

anyway, this was just a combo of my ideas+previous posts :D

 

[BurningMan]

I don't think a spinner is that important unless you want to use something thats 4x weak to sr or multiple SR weak Pokes.

 

[Vratix]

I don't think a spinner is that important unless you want to use something thats 4x weak to sr or multiple SR weak Pokes.

seconded

 

[Ewil]

So, like i said before i use clay for SR principally and for spin secondly, who you guys think can be a good SR setupper for this team ?

 

[NatGeo]

Accelgor seems like a possiblility to give some really quick Spikes while also having a bit of an offensive presence. Following that, a Ghost-type would seem kinda necessary to keep hazards up, so something bulky would probably work. I think Dusknoir could due to its sheer bulk and the abilty to spread burns, which can help Rhydon loads in the long run. You guys can also go two ways in terms of offensive teammates - those that have similar counters and special sweepers. The main idea of stacking Pokemon with the same counter(s) on the same team is so that you can weaken the main counter of that Pokemon on their team with a few, allowing the other(s) to sweep witht eh removal of their main threat eliminated. Special sweepers obviously get through most physical walls.

yeah just my two cents atm

 

[Molk]

So, like i said before i use clay for SR principally and for spin secondly, who you guys think can be a good SR setupper for this team ?

Well, i mentioned Crustle before for its ability to set up both hazards, could work ;)