It’s really not that hard to get to +4 with this and start smashing stuff with hbeam. You should usually be able to at least trade down 1v1 with it. Only unpara’d Cloy/bad para luck/great manoeuvring from opponent should stop that. Great moveset. For me, the stats look worse than they actually are. For a mon that wants to get to +4 and start smashing stuff 30 speed is actually a benefit in terms of low crit rate + stat reapplication. Bulk is just about good enough. For instance being able to survive a crit Zam psy is a feat few other SD’ers can muster.
Favoured set and the only one that makes real sense to me is eq/blizz/tbolt/counter. It was quite a bit better in the JoltCloy spamming era. Walls Jolt harder than any other mon, and Cloy can only really switch in once as EQ, tbolt, tbolt kos. Honestly a pretty cool role compression mon. It’s greater bulk mean it outclasses King, while King’s greater offence give it no real advantages. I also rank this high as being able to punish the most threatening mon in the tier (Bull) with ohko if you catch a hbeam on the switch is a great trait. But this comes with own caveats. You’re not guaranteed to survive the crit, (1/3 chance you can die if it crits), hbeam misses can screw the plan, and you’ve got to get the prediction right. Problem is usually it’s just better to go Don unless really worried about Jolt/Cloy/Egg or you are really confident you can catch your opponent’s beam.
Has immediacy of slash. SD, submission and bind are good options, and it’s type is interesting. Bug type is decent to chain switch around predicted eqs/razorleafs. Has stoss to hit Gar but horrible vs it otherwise. My favourite candidate to use with focus energy, high speed so crits are more likely, while it already lacks top tier coverage. I hate crits ruining my sweep.
Is a potential threat with great attack stat and good move-set. You generally should be able to get it in cleanly into Don once, but after that obviously becomes a big risk. Held back by tbolt weakness. But a cool breaker if you want to spice things up. Nice matchup vs Bull and Lax.
Very luck based but EQ stab and twave immunity, it’s speed and crit rate, and subsand being able to shuffle things or beat things it shouldn’t are good traits for it. So frail though. Only defensive purpose is vs Jolt and chain switching around electric moves. Really you only want to face Zap if its parad and you switch into tbolt. Has ability to revenge kill chipped down Bull and Mie. I’ve actually tried it with mimic to try and get softboiled/recover/twave/ice attack to be even more annoying, but usually just stick to EQ/Sand/Sub/Bslam-Slash-RS. It’s a high risk but potentially high reward mon.
Really hurt by lack of psychic type like Bro, Zam crit psy just nukes it whereas Bro can shrug it off. It’s speed over Bro is good for things like Cloy and Don however. But it’s main niche is down to Species clause. As Substitute Slowbro really wants another Bro to spread para for it, Golduck is the next best thing. You can leverage endgames to suit it as your 6th with Surf/hydro icebeam/blizz amnesia and substitute.
Theoretically really cool. In practice you need luck and good matchup to get value out of. Outspeeding cloyster is very useful. Good odds for 2hko on Cloy, Don and Lax, while is able to set up meditate on sleeping Cloy and Lax if you come in on the rest turn. Can come in on RefLax mid rest 17percent to delete it with crit or else click bslam to try and make progress on back psychics. The frailty sucks, being ohkod by any psychic, and Bull having easy 2hko is a concern. Counter mind games after booms/enemy revenge kills one of your mons is an interesting tool to combat back psys. But can’t 1v1 Bull unless crit hjk, or Bull crit bodyslam into counter, and even chipped Bull can just go hbeam crit gamble to negate its value.
Can be a pretty threatening mon. Honestly I’m open for it to be ranked higher. But for me it goes here, as I personally find more reason to bring the ones I’ve put above it. If want to stack decently fast physical normals with Bull I’d generally prefer to go Persian or Kanghaskhan route. If you to specifically anti-lead Jynx – I’d rather go Bull or Gengar instead as you’re not ice weak and can also threaten lead Gar too, though obviously risking your Bull like that isn’t probably the smartest play. Still agility and drill peck are a nice selling point. Just wish it got mirror move.
Actually is a pretty good Chansey abuser. Has good bulk with substitutes that Chansey boltbeam and stoss can’t break, while has sludge, bslam, screech and strong explosion to throw back. The value in this is being able to preserve your Lax hp/status, and Zam the same. Just bad in that is its only real niche.
I like the set of wingattack/skyattack/sub/rest. Very much a fishing mon. But has defensive and offensive potential. Wingattack to get stuff like Lax in skyattack range. If only had it had drillpeck or rockslide or earthquake. But still technically the best 4attack Lax check, however unless you’re running wing attack you’re going to get pp stalled by RefLax. Crit sky attack can really do some damage - crit is guaranteed ko on Mie/Zam/Chans/Egg but luck based and relying on charge turn and low pp. This potential luck based offense is what is has over Porygon, but it's generally outclassed, and needs a specific structure to run, in order to compensate for electrics/don/ice move weakness. While even bslam eq hbeam rest/fblast bull (something Aero in theory should be able to check) can brute force it with crits and para, due to Aero low defensive stats.
Mostly a worse Lapras but has acid armor instead of reflect for stat reapplication, sand attack instead of confuse ray, (I actually sometimes prefer sand as it doesn’t wear off) and not rockslide and submission/hjk weak, which can come up rarely. But it’s got decent stats and typing. It can actually rest loop boltbeam and stoss Chasney even though weak to tbolt which is weirdly interesting.
Can anti lead Jynx, good some nifty tools for early game lines in confuse ray firespin bslam, shuffling things around, helping get your own sleep off. Can’t go higher as fire doesn’t help defensively in rby, and only really helps offensively vs Jynx and Egg
Fire type with strong bslams + hbeams, even leer and quick attack are cool options. Bad speed hurts it so can’t rank it as high as tales.
If it had giga drain could actually be pretty decent. Embarrassing how little mega drain does to a Chansey even at +6. Generally got issues being outclassed by Egg, but sd/growth/bodyslam/bind at least give it different options. The main times I’ve used it are when I’ve been bored of using Egg. Mini Vic with sleep/stun/bind, but obviously worse accuracy hurts. Being able to switch into Don multiple times unlike Vic and Venu is a positive. Got enough unique things going for it to rank decently high.
It gets meme’d on a lot but it’s honestly not that bad, certainly decent in terms of its options. SD’er with fireblast, EQ, counter, slash. Has enough going for it that it’s not awful as to fill that 6th teamslot for variety. Can be a threat but typing hinders it more than helps it.
Only to be used in a team with Zam, unless flex. Can lead, or help lessen a boltbeam Chansey weakness but so frail.
Pretty much a worse Clef, but is a better option for counter due to higher hp (‘ve used bide too lol). But in the bslam spamming tier, a normal with ok stats and a lot of options is hard to rank lower than this.
This isn’t uu. But still naturally fastest wrapper. Sd wrap hbeam and special moves can hit hard. Barrier can’t really work due to Bull crits.
Badly outclassed yet the fact it’s a psychic type means it’s hard to rank lower. As psychic types are so useful even as designated sleep fodder for resetting spec drops and the like. Can oppose Mie with tbolt. It has barrier for reapplication over Hypnos reflect, but so unlike Hypno being so frail means it melts to crit bslams, and vulnerable to stoss with low hp, so rest even less appealing.
It’s hard to place him. Slightly better offence but lacking defensive potential of Queen. haven’t used him for quite a while, but would probably go bslam over Queens counter to combat BackMie, otherwise a problem for him.
In a world where twave trading t1 was more common this mon had the niche as the mon with 25percent chance to get para and stay healthy, which is nice for early momentum. Generally just outclassed by Jolt. Has screech/flash and explosion threat which can somewhat help with mon shuffling/para spreading potential. But if you running it as a lead, this probably implies sleepless or Vic build, both not ideal.
Weirdly faster than its evolution and in most cases better typing mean one of the few pre-evos you can consider running it instead of as opposed to alongside its evolution,. Lack of psy weakness but bad stats. I did use to like it as a niche lead in the past, when stuff like Eggy and Hypno were used somewhat commonly as leads.
Stomp fire spin agility anti-lead, but Tauros does this kind of thing better really. TailWhip reapplication is okay to make stomp/bslam/hbeam hit harder. Problems are inconsistency, bad typing and competition from other fires. I can’t rank this higher.
Semi niche in dedicated wrap build (hey Enigami) but I find having to rely on glare accuracy really hurts. EQ is nice though. No real good stab option.
Has Bind and Explosion. Very niche pick in some dedicated wrap builds. For Zap check as Wrap is usually very weak to the bird with Cloy/Vic/Nite. But the scary thing about bind is letting in Bull. Frustratingly low attack, even explosion is very weak. I find it similar in utility to Bok, but glare keeps Bok above this.
Good stats but a bit meh. It can rest loop a Chansey I guess. But lacks the more defined traits of most other fire types. Would have liked to test it with dig allowed though.
Not having eq hurts. It’s alright though. Mostly by virtue of type allowing super effective hits on at least half of the opponents mons on most teams. The bulk is surprisingly bad though (being 2hko’d by bull). Rslide and electric attacks are kinda cool coverage.
I’ve tried a swords dance set with mono Acid. It’s actually funny as with the defence drop ref lax cant wall it. But yeah just use Vic or Venu instead. Bulk like Venu but gets stun spore, so not completely outclassed.
Ref rest is a thing with the best defence of the electrics. Tbolt actually hits hard. Have also used it for screech support. Para spreader. Zap wall. Maybe a little harsh on it, but lack of coverage is incredibly annoying vs Don and Egg, with Jolt’s coverage/speed/critrate in most cases outclassing this.
Has headbutt over Lapras. This is your 4x Ice resist in a fun paraflinch build. Growl for para stat reapplication. Objectively it’s not a particularly bad Pokemon, why it has a high F rank. Just outclassed.
Has got submission, psychic, screech, but mostly a worse Raichu really. Outclassed but a got a bit of para spreading potential with screech and potential special drops/para reapplication from psychic.
Funny as a turn 1 Jynx switch in. If they hit Lovely Kiss, great it’s your sleep fodder, It not, outspeeds and can mirror move it right back. Actually in theory ok vs RefLax with mirror move leer. At least it gets Drill peck over Pidgeot.
Like most NFE it’s only use is alongside it’s evo. But Haunter has its own trick up it’s sleeve as a surprise 6th after already downed Gengar, in terms of potentially catching booms if your opponent gets cocky thinking it safe. Not good stats or reliable but very rarely can be a useful tool to consider.
Spore is super. Stun spore is solid. Speed is shocking. Annoyingly almost makes slash unusable as it doesn’t crit enough. Ideally you’d want to lead this thing but you can’t really afford to because Jynx can use ohko it with blizz. Unfortunately the one great trait it has other than spore – the fact it can switch into EQ with its 4x resist, is negated by fact it then gets obliterated by RS the following turn. More Dons dropping rs does help it a bit.
Mono-water with counter eq blizz surf withdraw stoss submission bodyslam. Not bad options. Just too many other waters to struggle against, but it’s not terrible.
In a pure Boomspam it’s speed over Egg compared to Muk is important. Coverage is okay with sludge, tbolt and fireblast. Smokescreen can be annoying.
Has double powder, better stats than Butterfree. Outspeeding Cloy is useful. Being psy weak is semi compensated by not being boltbeam weak.
Agility and swords dance plus hbeam is unique. But in practice it’s way too hard to engineer. Too easily walled. Terrible vs Don/Gar. Has a lot of Sd’er competition. But it’s not awful and could potentially be moved up.
Meme pick but agility is something. After an agility (on say sleeping lax or such) can actually 1v1 Tauros, something not even Hitmonlee can reliably achieve. But yeh Agility is all it has. Just dies to psychics. Submission accuracy is painful.
Can switch into an electric move. And has benefit being ohkod by some ice moves. Has slight advantage over Nite in some respects, but the stat drop pretty much isn’t worth it, so better to use alongside in a cursed AgiWrap build. At one point I tried it as a hybrid Zap check with RefRest, but Zap still kinda mullers it even then.
Bad vs Don/Gar. Bad stats. Not even getting hbeam stinks. At least it can slash with normal stab, fish for bslam para or could maybe utilise subsand. But not very good.
A worse Venomoth than can come in on an EQ which why goes a sub tier below, and one more chance to land sleep vs psychic.
Had a stage where I enjoyed trying it as a surprise 6th endgamer, with the smokescreen and confuse ray unholy alliance. Did also try Lv85 stoss at one point. But this guy is the worst fire.
Has the bone club/headbutt flinch combo which I find amusing. Only mon that can flinch para’d Gengar. Pure ground type with counter, interesting special move options. It’s not actually ‘that’ bad, in a world in which Tauros starts to drop blizzard more it could rise a bit, due to counter threat. But that’s all it offers really. Just outclassed.
Don’t like not having drill peck, normal stab is ok but no bodyslam hurts. I find it doesn’t usually achieve anything, while it has the obvious Don/Gar problem. Has mirror move potential in theory with better defences than Fearow, but that’s a wildly inconsistent plan.
Twinneedle can ohko Egg with a crit. That’s something, right? Twineedle and SD keep it from bottom 2 tiers, but it can’t really achieve too much without the opponent misplaying. Tried it with pivot moves or accuracy dropping support to help bring it in, but still a major risk to run. One little thing I did kind of like was using String shot to enable winning the revenge Bull war, or counter shenanigans with Kanga.
On dedicated parafusion team has vague niche as an EQ switch in (and razor leaf I guess). Bad stats, no good stab, only real utility in confuse ray and screech is ruined by switching. I also find Confuse ray generally just wears off too quickly. Don’t run that team unless you want to torture yourself.
Feel like they both kind of fit together. Are pretty much outclassed by the myriad of other waters. Seadra especially has a toolkit just outclassed by Vaporeon, who is already outclassed by Lapras. They do both have agility but then Cuno becomes the superior choice instead. Either could be bottom, went for Seadra as Seaking could conceivably threaten para’d Chans/Mie more with significantly better attack, and TailWhip reapplication.
5pps and bad stats are tough to achieve anything with. Even though I have it bottom, I wouldn’t describe it as completely irredeemable. As it has a tiny niche in terms of scouting, being as it can sometimes be possible to deduce movesets and teambuilds by way your opponent responds to it. But you should probably just use a proper mon instead.