Yes, all week 1 (for now...) - it's mostly there just for fun.
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Tournament Random Battles Team Tournament VII - Commencement Thread
- Thread starter sharpclaw
- Start date
I am famously pro-fun, so:
Lrogue
RBTT Champion
Remember, pro-fun
After two weeks of results, where > means beat and = means tied:
Zekrom = Darkrai > Giratina-O > Hoopa > Suicune > Chi-Yu > Ogerpon-H > Rayquaza = Zekrom
Zekrom = Darkrai > Giratina-O > Hoopa > Suicune > Chi-Yu > Ogerpon-H > Rayquaza = Zekrom
speaking of how the teams stack up against each other...
Check out the Random Battles Team Tournament VII Power Rankings!
Huge shoutouts to the writing team, Amaranth, Celever, Javi, Roginald, and Tarrembeau, who took on this project with enthusiasm and aplomb—and thanks to Lumari, ken, Kalalokki, and Ticken for their GP, HTML, and graphics work!
Check out the Random Battles Team Tournament VII Power Rankings!
Huge shoutouts to the writing team, Amaranth, Celever, Javi, Roginald, and Tarrembeau, who took on this project with enthusiasm and aplomb—and thanks to Lumari, ken, Kalalokki, and Ticken for their GP, HTML, and graphics work!
Just wanted to say davidelbello bald >:D
for continued RBTT chatter: keep posting here!
for RBEL posting: head to the new RBEL Commencement thread!
(if ppl wanna cross-post to that new thread, and then I'll delete their posts here, go for it)
for RBEL posting: head to the new RBEL Commencement thread!
(if ppl wanna cross-post to that new thread, and then I'll delete their posts here, go for it)
wow thank you <3
I gotta go buy milk for a bit. Once I return I will sign up for RBTT for real, just you wait.
Betathunder
alphalightning
amen
Ty Irpachuza and not a racist for trusting me with your first pick, hopefully I made ya proud. Shoutout to my teammates, it was fun talking to you all and getting to know you. Finally, thanks to host for all the work you do for the tour. We butt heads at times but I really appreciate what you do.
p.s. Sylveon used calm mind is bad
p.s. Sylveon used calm mind is bad
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With all round-robin games concluded, it's time to hand out some completely meaningless awards!
All of these come from the official sheet - I've not done any extra calculations (this time)
~Best in format~
Gen 9 bo5: GXE - boasting an undefeated 6-0 record in the prestigious best-of-5 format, GXE played an insane tournament, with a huge 6-0 undefeated finish, a record unmatched by any other player in the tournament
Gen 9 bo3: Buhrito - with an even higher match winrate than GXE (77% to gxe's 75%), buhrito shows once again that no matter what tournament they're in, they'll be hard to stop
Gen 8: RoFnA - also from team Ogerpon, RoFnA managed to sport a 5-1 record, only losing to the crowd favourite Typhlosion48 all the way back in week 1.
Gen 7: emforbes - despite starting on the bench week 1, emforbes came in swinging when Suicunes realised what a powerful force they had.
Gen 6: Michielleus - only playing 4 weeks in gen 6, Michi's 5th win was up in gen9 bo5, where they bested Chi-Yu captain Pokeblade.
Gen 5: Dj Breloominati♬ - Our first award recipient to play all 7 weeks, Spitfire only lost once to MrSoup in week 1
Gen 4: Trade/SMB/PoaT - our first tie, and it's a 3-way at that! Trade, SMB, and PoaT all ended 5-2, but Trade's match record was slightly better, picking up 12 wins, while only dropping 5 games. A very close race, what an even format!
Gen 3: soTsoT - soTsoT was selected to be the gen 6 player for team Darkrai, and even the favourite to win that format, but after dropping week 1, they pivoted to gen3 and showed that they can get wins in any rands format.
Gen 2: Stallion - RIP my dude
Gen 1: Luchik - only losing to the crowd favourite Ice Yazu, and winning 3/5 sets 2-0, Luchik blazed through rby
Dubs: ionnss - sporting the highest match winrate out of any 7-set player (81%!!!) ionnss only lost a total of 3 games all tournament! Unfortunately 2 of those games were to the same opponent (snorlax) but they still managed to sneak an extra win to make sure they took 1 game off every opponent
Battle Factory: lax - another undefeated player, Lax ended 5-0, taking a break in weeks 5 & 7 to keep re-lax'd
BSSF: Yone - with only 1 extra game dropped compared to ionnss, Yone had the 2nd highest winrate out of any 7-week player, losing only to rands resident trash expert.
HC: Oaklies - considered a newcomer, Oaklies has blazed a trail to become the leading HC player. Unfortunately they also have the lowest winrate out of all the above players, but that earns them an extra award...
~Team MVPs~
Darkrai: ionnss (6-1)
Ogerpon-H: GXE (6-0)
Giratina-O: yone (6-1)
Rayquaza: MultiAmmiratore (5-2) - Playing across 3 different formats, MultiAmmiratore is the first MVP who didn't get best in faction, but their versatility proved valuable for Rays, slotting in a win here and there when the lineup needed to change
Hoopa: odr (6-1) - odr was the 2nd ranked dubs player, but ended on much the same record as ionnss - only jumping into mbox for a single week to snag an easy 2-0 win
Chi-Yu: Buhrito (6-1)
Suicune: Eeveeto (6-1) - Eeveeto's story is much the same, going 5-1 in battle factory, but swapping out to gen 4 for a week
Zekrom: JJ09LIE/Thiago Nunes/oaklies/baconeatinassassin/luchik/Princeofalltacos (5-2)!!!
All teams had a single player with a better record than anyone else in the team - all teams except one. Zekkers have shown their dedication to balance once again, by having 6 team members end with the same 5-2 record. If we dig down to the match level, Mr Nunes slightly leads the pack with their 75% winrate
~Bonus Awards~
most flexible player: Peap - Playing in 4 formats, and ending 5-0, Peap has shown they can jump anywhere and score wins
Highest Draft Value: emforbes - getting top in the format while being drafted 122nd. !underpay
~Joke Awards~
Sharpclaw Energy Award: Oaklies - all 7 rounds went to game 3!
"technically undefeated"/Cheerleader Award: BeeOrSomething & Sylvi - both players have yet to play a single set. Hopefully Sylvi will get their chance in playoffs!
Zekrom Award: Ampha - 3 set wins, 3 set losses. 7 game wins, 7 game losses
If you have any further award suggestions, let me know!
All of these come from the official sheet - I've not done any extra calculations (this time)
~Best in format~
Gen 9 bo5: GXE - boasting an undefeated 6-0 record in the prestigious best-of-5 format, GXE played an insane tournament, with a huge 6-0 undefeated finish, a record unmatched by any other player in the tournament
Gen 9 bo3: Buhrito - with an even higher match winrate than GXE (77% to gxe's 75%), buhrito shows once again that no matter what tournament they're in, they'll be hard to stop
Gen 8: RoFnA - also from team Ogerpon, RoFnA managed to sport a 5-1 record, only losing to the crowd favourite Typhlosion48 all the way back in week 1.
Gen 7: emforbes - despite starting on the bench week 1, emforbes came in swinging when Suicunes realised what a powerful force they had.
Gen 6: Michielleus - only playing 4 weeks in gen 6, Michi's 5th win was up in gen9 bo5, where they bested Chi-Yu captain Pokeblade.
Gen 5: Dj Breloominati♬ - Our first award recipient to play all 7 weeks, Spitfire only lost once to MrSoup in week 1
Gen 4: Trade/SMB/PoaT - our first tie, and it's a 3-way at that! Trade, SMB, and PoaT all ended 5-2, but Trade's match record was slightly better, picking up 12 wins, while only dropping 5 games. A very close race, what an even format!
Gen 3: soTsoT - soTsoT was selected to be the gen 6 player for team Darkrai, and even the favourite to win that format, but after dropping week 1, they pivoted to gen3 and showed that they can get wins in any rands format.
Gen 1: Luchik - only losing to the crowd favourite Ice Yazu, and winning 3/5 sets 2-0, Luchik blazed through rby
Dubs: ionnss - sporting the highest match winrate out of any 7-set player (81%!!!) ionnss only lost a total of 3 games all tournament! Unfortunately 2 of those games were to the same opponent (snorlax) but they still managed to sneak an extra win to make sure they took 1 game off every opponent
Battle Factory: lax - another undefeated player, Lax ended 5-0, taking a break in weeks 5 & 7 to keep re-lax'd
BSSF: Yone - with only 1 extra game dropped compared to ionnss, Yone had the 2nd highest winrate out of any 7-week player, losing only to rands resident trash expert.
HC: Oaklies - considered a newcomer, Oaklies has blazed a trail to become the leading HC player. Unfortunately they also have the lowest winrate out of all the above players, but that earns them an extra award...
~Team MVPs~
Darkrai: ionnss (6-1)
Ogerpon-H: GXE (6-0)
Giratina-O: yone (6-1)
Rayquaza: MultiAmmiratore (5-2) - Playing across 3 different formats, MultiAmmiratore is the first MVP who didn't get best in faction, but their versatility proved valuable for Rays, slotting in a win here and there when the lineup needed to change
Hoopa: odr (6-1) - odr was the 2nd ranked dubs player, but ended on much the same record as ionnss - only jumping into mbox for a single week to snag an easy 2-0 win
Chi-Yu: Buhrito (6-1)
Suicune: Eeveeto (6-1) - Eeveeto's story is much the same, going 5-1 in battle factory, but swapping out to gen 4 for a week
Zekrom: JJ09LIE/Thiago Nunes/oaklies/baconeatinassassin/luchik/Princeofalltacos (5-2)!!!
All teams had a single player with a better record than anyone else in the team - all teams except one. Zekkers have shown their dedication to balance once again, by having 6 team members end with the same 5-2 record. If we dig down to the match level, Mr Nunes slightly leads the pack with their 75% winrate
~Bonus Awards~
most flexible player: Peap - Playing in 4 formats, and ending 5-0, Peap has shown they can jump anywhere and score wins
Highest Draft Value: emforbes - getting top in the format while being drafted 122nd. !underpay
~Joke Awards~
Sharpclaw Energy Award: Oaklies - all 7 rounds went to game 3!
"technically undefeated"/Cheerleader Award: BeeOrSomething & Sylvi - both players have yet to play a single set. Hopefully Sylvi will get their chance in playoffs!
Zekrom Award: Ampha - 3 set wins, 3 set losses. 7 game wins, 7 game losses
If you have any further award suggestions, let me know!
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:')
Knew 3 of my fav gen4 battler would get this far, dunno i'll cheer the 3 gl guys!
It's the end of the regular season, and that means more stats. Here's an updated version of the draft list taking each week into account. It shows the draft round of each player in each event for each week, then averaged over the entire season.
Overall, Gen 5 averages out as the most valuable tier, beating Gen 9 Best of 5 by a full 0.75 rounds. In addition to hosting many top players, it was remarkably consistent, with only two changes the entire season (on par with Gen 1). Gen 9 Best of 5 comes in second; its rating is affected by the captains being valued as only a 5th round pick officially, but also by a number of lower picks who worked their way into the spotlight. Gen 8 is also popular among top picks, while the remaining formats usually show a broad mixture of high and low picks. An exception is Gen 1, with upper-mid-round picks almost across the board. Mystery Box finishes near the bottom as a popular spot for later picks, while Hackmons Cup comes in lowest, as it exclusively features players drafted Round 8 or later.
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what is the r or r^2 value of the bottom chart?
Thank you for the reminder. It was... low. I have removed the chart in order to avoid inaccurate speculation.
I was told to post here despite the fact that this is a commencement thread. I strongly suggest rands auth open threads for format discussion on team tours. tagging rands people for visibility Irpachuza sharpclaw livid washed eva and I hope more see this.
managing/playing in WCOR and RBTT, I have some suggestions that I think would make both tours better. I think RBTT and WCOR would benefit from the general model SPL/WCoP have. I think their roles should essentially switch; WCOR should focus on CG/gen8/gen7 in order to help smaller regions field their squads and be more equitable. On the other hand, I think RBTT should focus on the fact that it's a draft and the most important rands tour of the year. As such, it should strive to foster the most competitive playing field possible.
RBTT: 14/16 slots
gen 9x3
gens 1-8x1
other gen 9 metas (doubles, hc, factory, etc)x3 or 5
The main difference is that this would eliminate mb and bring all of the non-random battles formats to gen 9. While I think RBTT is a very competitive and strong tour, I think this would strengthen it even more. Having a variable slot each week makes drafting less informed and playing less consistent. Losing a week because the specific mb format that week was disadvantageous isn't the best competitive feeling in my opinion. Moreover, it makes sense to include gen 2 in RBTT rather than WCOR when you can specifically draft for it. This year, mb has 3 formats that aren't represented by a cg counterpart: pick 6, gen 2, and monotype. I think it would make more sense to just add these and eliminate the repetition of something like gen9hc and gen8hc or gen7bf and gen8bf. While i understand gen7bf may be completely different than gen8bf and equally competetive, repeated representation across gens does not seems like a good/consistent tournament philosophy. If bf is that popular, add two gen8bfs to the tour, not a gen7 version thrown into the mb format. Overall, i think this would make RBTT more competetive.
However I don't hate the voting/variable aspect of mb inherently. I think it or something similar would make more sense in WCOR, which can focus and lean more into recents gens. I think its not wise to think all regions can equally field a strong gen 2/3/4 etc player. im not recommending the removal of all classic gens from WCOR, but maybe a condensed approach like a classic bo5 or including them/some in their own mb. That way we can add all these mb-voted tiers each year, like gen 7 bssf and more. IMO, its much more reasonable to ask a small WCOR region to supply cg or recent gen players.
I definitely don't think this is the only way to go about this for next year, and I also recognize this is the week of finals lol. I just think the way these two tours are is a little bit opposite, and they should take aspects from each other to make both of them fit nicer into their respective places. It would be cool to hear others' suggestions too.
managing/playing in WCOR and RBTT, I have some suggestions that I think would make both tours better. I think RBTT and WCOR would benefit from the general model SPL/WCoP have. I think their roles should essentially switch; WCOR should focus on CG/gen8/gen7 in order to help smaller regions field their squads and be more equitable. On the other hand, I think RBTT should focus on the fact that it's a draft and the most important rands tour of the year. As such, it should strive to foster the most competitive playing field possible.
RBTT: 14/16 slots
gen 9x3
gens 1-8x1
other gen 9 metas (doubles, hc, factory, etc)x3 or 5
The main difference is that this would eliminate mb and bring all of the non-random battles formats to gen 9. While I think RBTT is a very competitive and strong tour, I think this would strengthen it even more. Having a variable slot each week makes drafting less informed and playing less consistent. Losing a week because the specific mb format that week was disadvantageous isn't the best competitive feeling in my opinion. Moreover, it makes sense to include gen 2 in RBTT rather than WCOR when you can specifically draft for it. This year, mb has 3 formats that aren't represented by a cg counterpart: pick 6, gen 2, and monotype. I think it would make more sense to just add these and eliminate the repetition of something like gen9hc and gen8hc or gen7bf and gen8bf. While i understand gen7bf may be completely different than gen8bf and equally competetive, repeated representation across gens does not seems like a good/consistent tournament philosophy. If bf is that popular, add two gen8bfs to the tour, not a gen7 version thrown into the mb format. Overall, i think this would make RBTT more competetive.
However I don't hate the voting/variable aspect of mb inherently. I think it or something similar would make more sense in WCOR, which can focus and lean more into recents gens. I think its not wise to think all regions can equally field a strong gen 2/3/4 etc player. im not recommending the removal of all classic gens from WCOR, but maybe a condensed approach like a classic bo5 or including them/some in their own mb. That way we can add all these mb-voted tiers each year, like gen 7 bssf and more. IMO, its much more reasonable to ask a small WCOR region to supply cg or recent gen players.
I definitely don't think this is the only way to go about this for next year, and I also recognize this is the week of finals lol. I just think the way these two tours are is a little bit opposite, and they should take aspects from each other to make both of them fit nicer into their respective places. It would be cool to hear others' suggestions too.
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I think they main draw of mystery box is to create more situations where teams send in different bench players so more people get to see action, with the same formats every week you will probably end up seeing the same player lineups very often.
At the end of the day it comes down to the trade-off between the competitive and friendly/fun aspect of the tournament and removing mystery box is a huge blow for the later while not really being that impactful for competitiveness, I think organizers already did the right thing by removing formats from the MB pool like CAP1v1.
IMO RBTT is fine the way it is, I don’t mind WCOR being tweaked with your suggestions and focusing more on recent gens, I'm neutral on that. If anything changed about misery box I think it should be making it 7 formats only so you know each of them will show up once during regular week and then do what we are doing for playoffs with all 7 but let players ban one before the counterpick or something similar.
At the end of the day it comes down to the trade-off between the competitive and friendly/fun aspect of the tournament and removing mystery box is a huge blow for the later while not really being that impactful for competitiveness, I think organizers already did the right thing by removing formats from the MB pool like CAP1v1.
IMO RBTT is fine the way it is, I don’t mind WCOR being tweaked with your suggestions and focusing more on recent gens, I'm neutral on that. If anything changed about misery box I think it should be making it 7 formats only so you know each of them will show up once during regular week and then do what we are doing for playoffs with all 7 but let players ban one before the counterpick or something similar.
Already a thing
FWIW the full roster of formats if we removed mbox and included the valuable formats from mbox would IMO be:
9 Bo5
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
Dubs
BSSF
BF
HC
...yes, I just replaced mbox with gen 2.
Mbox is a very rands inclusion and has its charm with showing off a wide variety of formats, but its utility has been relatively lessened by the expansion of the tour and therefore the number of slots per team. If teams were 12 people then mbox would continue to make sense. As it stands, its utility is mostly giving extra importance to the subs and giving them a chance to play, since some of them will be better at the niche formats than others. Occasionally, a starting roster player may switch to mbox for a week to try and get a free win too and balance probabilities, which overall is an exercise which I think is more interesting to managers than to players. Most players just want to be given a format to play, casually training for it throughout the tournament, and if they get shuffled it's OK but not their preference.
I think mbox this year had some good formats (8 Dubs, 7 BSSF) and some genuine stinkers (Monotype, Pick 6). Mbox doesn't have to just be to my tastes, but when the mbox formats were being determined it struck me that we didn't actually have 7 good options. I ended up voting for options that I didn't think were desirable, because they were better than the others.
I also don't like how it works during poffs. It's mostly a third Gen 9 slot, just for players who are also good at something niche and harder to pick up and play, like dubs or BSSF (as the winpath is usually win gen 9, lose second game in something you're bad at, win third game in something you're good at). I get why the first battle is in Gen 9, and it's because it's the best way to have mbox in playoffs, but it's still not good and I think it speaks to the weakness of mbox as a concept. Mbox is more fun than it is competitive, but I'm skeptical of how genuinely fun it is for players anyway.
I will also say that I disagree with a small part of your post, which is expanding Gen 9 to 3 slots next year. 2 slots seemed perfect this year from the POV of good players getting into the tour. It seemed balanced between newer blood getting a shot (baconeatinassassin, Ampha) while also being competitive (it helps that the newer blood ended up being good lol).
I certainly hope the hosts do player research after finals conclude. The future of mbox and Bo3 vs Bo5 feel like the 2 main topics that need this research.
I want to start by saying that for the most part I agree with Mr. Soup's post - however I understand that many people care for both of these tours in different ways and drastically changing them may rub some people the wrong way. Being a newer player myself (relatively - RBTT has been going on for 7ish years), I get that many players who have been here since the tour's inception like the way it currently is. However, with change comes growth, so I ask those reading this to read with an open mind. I understand that Soups post asks a heavy amount of change when it comes to these tours, so I would like to start with a more mild proposal:
Add Gen 2 Random Battle slot to RBTT; remove Hackmons Cup slot from RBTT.
From what I understand, RBTT was originally intended to be a tournament representing all of the main rands formats, with an emphasis on this over competitiveness. But let's face it - over the past couple of years, with signups and hype at an all time high and the introduction of team CAs - RBTT has naturally grown to be more competitive than ever. This is further emphasized with the introduction of RBEL - an entire tournament with the intention of getting your name out there for RBTT. There is no denying that RBTT has grown to be as competitive as it's ever been, and in my opinion, this should be reflected in the competitive integrity of the tournament itself.
This brings me to my point that Hackmons Cup is (un)arguably the least competitive format in RBTT by a decent margin, with this sentiment being shared by many other people in the rands scene. Having played in RBTT twice myself, I have personally never enjoyed this format having its own slot, as every week feels like it comes down to who’s luckier with little to no room to outplay. In both RBTTs I have played, even our own hackmons player(s) seem to despise the format, especially this year, with most of our players / subs trying to actively dodge the format. Not to mention, I think hackmons is also unfun as a spectator, as pretty much the entire game comes down to hoping your player randomly gets better movesets than the opponent. I understand that there is a small but active HC community, but the same can be said about the small but active Gen 2 rands community.
To be clear, I think that the Mystery Box slot can stay to still uphold the original intended purpose of the tournament - to give most rands formats a spotlight. Hackmons would simply be moved to Mystery Box, while Gen 2 becomes a main slot. And lastly, I think the slots would look cleaner if gen 2 was included instead of randomly skipped. Gen 2 was taken out because it was allegedly deemed too unbalanced, but you will never convince me that Hackmons Cup should have a slot over Gen 2.
Add Gen 2 Random Battle slot to RBTT; remove Hackmons Cup slot from RBTT.
From what I understand, RBTT was originally intended to be a tournament representing all of the main rands formats, with an emphasis on this over competitiveness. But let's face it - over the past couple of years, with signups and hype at an all time high and the introduction of team CAs - RBTT has naturally grown to be more competitive than ever. This is further emphasized with the introduction of RBEL - an entire tournament with the intention of getting your name out there for RBTT. There is no denying that RBTT has grown to be as competitive as it's ever been, and in my opinion, this should be reflected in the competitive integrity of the tournament itself.
This brings me to my point that Hackmons Cup is (un)arguably the least competitive format in RBTT by a decent margin, with this sentiment being shared by many other people in the rands scene. Having played in RBTT twice myself, I have personally never enjoyed this format having its own slot, as every week feels like it comes down to who’s luckier with little to no room to outplay. In both RBTTs I have played, even our own hackmons player(s) seem to despise the format, especially this year, with most of our players / subs trying to actively dodge the format. Not to mention, I think hackmons is also unfun as a spectator, as pretty much the entire game comes down to hoping your player randomly gets better movesets than the opponent. I understand that there is a small but active HC community, but the same can be said about the small but active Gen 2 rands community.
To be clear, I think that the Mystery Box slot can stay to still uphold the original intended purpose of the tournament - to give most rands formats a spotlight. Hackmons would simply be moved to Mystery Box, while Gen 2 becomes a main slot. And lastly, I think the slots would look cleaner if gen 2 was included instead of randomly skipped. Gen 2 was taken out because it was allegedly deemed too unbalanced, but you will never convince me that Hackmons Cup should have a slot over Gen 2.